Make paranoia great again

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Is this a good idea

Yes
18
69%
No
8
31%
 
Total votes: 26

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InsaneHyena
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:13 pm
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Make paranoia great again

Post by InsaneHyena » #192116

So I was doing cocaine the other day, thinking about SS13. Kor once characterized /tg/'s playstyle extremely well - grief lottery. People don't get antags - they suicide. Either to try again on some other server, or to try and get lavaland antag/positronic/punchghost/ratvar positronic, or maybe just to observe. Alternatively, they grab a stun prod, a spear and begin validhunting for antags. Grief lottery. Grief lottery. How the fuck do we deal with grief lottery?
Suddenly, the idea comes into my mind - revoke lottery tickets! You only get a roll for antag, if you survive the previous round. Suddenly, the idea to try and disarm Traitor McMurderbone of his double esword is less attractive. Death is still cheap in the borders of the round, but you now WANT to survive. You do NOT want to suicide.

Just think of implications!
Bring back papercult.

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Zilenan91
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Zilenan91 » #192118

The implications is people sitting alone in rooms so they have a chance to roll for antag and that would be awful



The way to solve the grief lottery is to make there be more ghost roles. Some benign, some not.
Spoiler:
Zilenan91 wrote:
Just replace both their arms with chainsaws.

HAVE FUN ESCAPING NOW WITH NO ARMS
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Saegrimr
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Saegrimr » #192119

And for Traitor McScientist, the ultimate salt generation would be maxcapping the fuck of out the FULL emergency shuttle in transit.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
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InsaneHyena
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by InsaneHyena » #192120

There's already a shitload of ghost roles, death couldn't be anymore cheap. It doesn't work.
Bring back papercult.

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Screemonster
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:23 pm
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Screemonster » #192127

just what we need, another thing to put people off playing security
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Saegrimr
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Saegrimr » #192128

I still think the beard idea is better.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
Zilenan91
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Zilenan91 » #192129

The beard idea is pretty great
Spoiler:
Zilenan91 wrote:
Just replace both their arms with chainsaws.

HAVE FUN ESCAPING NOW WITH NO ARMS
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Armhulen
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Armhulen » #192133

Saegrimr wrote:I still think the beard idea is better.
Zilenan91 wrote:The beard idea is pretty great
you can't argue with the facts
Alex Crimson
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:05 pm
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Alex Crimson » #192742

Bring back parasting!

I remember someone suggesting that antags roles should not kick in at roundstart, but instead 5-10 minutes into the round. To stop people constantly rolling for antag then suiciding. Would be nice if you could also blacklist anyone who suicides at roundstart from being an antag for a few rounds. Its not a big deal if Assistants do it, but when the Virologist or a Scientist feels the need to gib themselves outside the HoP office, handing their IDs to any antag or shitter passing by, id say its worth punishing that kind of behaviour.
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Screemonster
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:23 pm
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Screemonster » #192751

The problem is that people will just walk out of airlocks instead of typing suicide - unless you want to have admins manually check the round-start report for anyone dead and apply antagbans if it looks like they did it on purpose.
Tornadium
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 11:55 am
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Tornadium » #192786

The only way paranoia will mean anything is if we do a 180 reverse in the development directiom and make death something to fear again.

The number of antags spawned as well as ghost roles makes death a nonfactor.
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420goslingboy69
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by 420goslingboy69 » #192881

make it so antag doesn't matter by making everyone a relative antag at the start of the round by changing the rules in what you;re allowed to do
i play :):):):):)autumn sinnow
this man's:):):):):) army
DESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTRO:):):):):)YERDESTRO:):):):):)YERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERD:):):):):)ESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROY:):):):):)ERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDEST:):):):):)ROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDES:):):):):)TROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYER
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Alex Crimson
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:05 pm
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Alex Crimson » #192976

Screemonster wrote:The problem is that people will just walk out of airlocks instead of typing suicide - unless you want to have admins manually check the round-start report for anyone dead and apply antagbans if it looks like they did it on purpose.
Just make it automatic for anyone that dies within the first few minutes, or the first 5 minutes over multiple rounds. Could also just not tell people when this is added, so they continue to suicide but never get antag. At the very least suiciding in non-Assistant roles should be a job/server ban.
BananaSenor
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by BananaSenor » #192977

Have Security automatically "survive" by just joining as Security. Would solve the Low-Sec problem as well.

I really like this idea. If we attach value to people's lives, they will maybe try to survive for once, instead of trying to valid constantly. But maybe not count just the last round, have a "antag-token" account for each player. You survive, you get one. You roll antag, you loose one. 0 token = 0 antag.
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DemonFiren
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by DemonFiren » #192981

BRB, grabbing a suit, some metal and a canister so I can wall myself in in space when I don't roll antag.
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BananaSenor
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by BananaSenor » #192984

Sounds more productive than what usually happens. Go for it. Don't forget to get on the shuttle!
Alex Crimson
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Alex Crimson » #192985

Like someone said, antags would use it as a reason to generate salt by murdering everyone. The last thing we need is more reasons to murderbone.
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DemonFiren
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by DemonFiren » #192986

Alex Crimson wrote:Like someone said, antags would use it as a reason to generate salt by murdering everyone. The last thing we need is more reasons to murderbone.
Plus, if you have to hitch a shuttle ride to get your token you know what that means.
More shuttle and pod bombings.
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BananaSenor
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by BananaSenor » #192987

Yes, that's what it is about. You have to hide from the murderboner. Be paranoid about the murderboner. Not try to get that lucky disarm on the guy who cut down 10 people in a row.

If the murderboner fails his objectives because he is busy otherwise, he should not get his antag-token for the round.
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DemonFiren
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by DemonFiren » #192988

Wait, so you can get antag tokens while also playing antag, but only if you green tax?
Fuck no. Here comes the powergaming for objectives respectively objective denial.
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BananaSenor
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by BananaSenor » #192991

Are you just against change to have something to argue about? The traitor has to powergame for his objectives. Thats the whole point of being a traitor being send to complete that objective. And about denial, go and play atmos and disable the plasma loop every shift start and wait for the boing.
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Pilgrim
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:57 am
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Pilgrim » #193019

I don't like the idea of punishing people who try to stop murderboners.
First: do no harm.
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DemonFiren
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by DemonFiren » #193037

Pilgrim wrote:I don't like the idea of punishing people who try to stop murderboners.
On top of that, I don't like murderboning.
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Wyzack
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:32 pm
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Wyzack » #193150

> it's the monthly "bring back parasting" thread
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.
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onleavedontatme
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by onleavedontatme » #193157

I know I'm a broken record and nobody wants to read an essay so I'll just bullet point it

-Sitting out for an hour+ is irritating, not paranoia inducing

-Paranoia comes from not knowing (is this guy I'm working with gonna backstab me?). Some guy sprinting through the halls with a double esword cutting people up isn't paranoia, no matter how much the OOC consequences are.

-Most of our modes have easy antag checks, team huds, etc. We have lots of knowing. A usually rigid meta (modes don't mix)

-People on this server don't like working together, they complain everyone else is incompetent, round is too short to work together, whatever. Because nobody has to work together, you don't really have to expose yourself to situations in which someone might backstab you.

-People on this server like easy antag checks. Clearly defined loyalties and rules. Admins like it as well, it's easier to administrate. Many of our players fail to Sally Anne test (they can't understand that other players are operating from their own incomplete set of knowledge, so they get mad if they get killed on a bad guess.)


Being dead for an hour won't bring back paranoia, and nobody actually wants paranoia back.
Alex Crimson
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Alex Crimson » #193184

Who is ever dead for an hour anymore? You have loaded the game with so many ghosts roles that people only remain dead if they want to observe. The server was not like this years ago, it was made this way slowly over time by the policy and code changes. Players just accept it and adjust or leave. You could easily start moving back to a more dangerous paranoid atmosphere if you put in the effort as a headmin and coder to move us back there. Sure maybe the powergamers and murderboners would leave, but i seriously doubt any of us would be sad about that.

...and bring back parasting already. The game is so different from back when it was "overpowered" and people bitched about it all day long. Surgery is easier, upgraded cloner can scan husks, endless torrents of ghost roles. I think at this point you could bring it back and nothing bad would happen.
Zilenan91
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Zilenan91 » #193390

It would still be awful like it was before.
Spoiler:
Zilenan91 wrote:
Just replace both their arms with chainsaws.

HAVE FUN ESCAPING NOW WITH NO ARMS
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Steelpoint
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Steelpoint » #193392

If you want to introduce paranoia you would need to take a long hard look at our current game mode selection and heavily redo it.

You'll be better off simply gutting and redoing Traitor as a game mode, balancing and removing items.

Hell at this point you'll need to re examine a lot of the station and crew and what they can do.
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paprika
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by paprika » #193460

>Not making a new game and building off of the current codebase which is pretty rock solid
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.
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420goslingboy69
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by 420goslingboy69 » #193534

Kor wrote:I know I'm a broken record and nobody wants to read an essay so I'll just bullet point it

-Sitting out for an hour+ is irritating, not paranoia inducing

-Paranoia comes from not knowing (is this guy I'm working with gonna backstab me?). Some guy sprinting through the halls with a double esword cutting people up isn't paranoia, no matter how much the OOC consequences are.

-Most of our modes have easy antag checks, team huds, etc. We have lots of knowing. A usually rigid meta (modes don't mix)

-People on this server don't like working together, they complain everyone else is incompetent, round is too short to work together, whatever. Because nobody has to work together, you don't really have to expose yourself to situations in which someone might backstab you.

-People on this server like easy antag checks. Clearly defined loyalties and rules. Admins like it as well, it's easier to administrate. Many of our players fail to Sally Anne test (they can't understand that other players are operating from their own incomplete set of knowledge, so they get mad if they get killed on a bad guess.)


Being dead for an hour won't bring back paranoia, and nobody actually wants paranoia back.
If people were actually held up to respectable standards and the people who couldn't follow them were chastised in a social way (see real moderation), a real change of system could come about. This would also need a climate change. The climate has always been one step away from changing, Kor. Also just assume everyone is mentally ill and unstable like me and everyone in the world, so learn to work around and with that. Sometimes, pushes need to be made.
And to state you don't want paranoia back is false (I would assume.) At least, from my perspective, on Goon there is a level of paranoia and Goon has like literally almost no roleplay...
Paranoia inherently made the game more immersive. Why wouldn't it? It's another concept to feel and think.
Obviously,
i play :):):):):)autumn sinnow
this man's:):):):):) army
DESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTRO:):):):):)YERDESTRO:):):):):)YERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERD:):):):):)ESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROY:):):):):)ERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDEST:):):):):)ROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDES:):):):):)TROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYERDESTROYER
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Atticat
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:04 pm
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Atticat » #199349

You basically need a new game like pap says, I'd wager something like ss13 plus lifeweb would be interesting, like a system shock 13. If there are no rules then paranoia is rampant because the rigid meta WON'T protect you. Anybody can turn on you at any time for any reason, there is no grief lottery, only predators and prey. An unforgiving station where the only rule is that survival is unlikely.
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MrEousTranger
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by MrEousTranger » #199353

How long does a page have to be dead for it to be considered necro????
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by yackemflam » #199457

This is why we need datum antags with the rules I provided with for multiantag people.
If you are a traitor, and you get ganged, and then culted. You are still a traitor.
If you are a gang then culted. You are still gang and vice versa.

This will make EVERYONE paranoid as fuck.
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NSFW:
You`ll need:
1-6 Plasma tanks 1-6 Oxygen tanks
1-6 tank transfer valve
2 Plasma canister
2 Oxygen canister
1 Yellow (empty) canister
Wrench
Toxins lab access
Science testing lab access

Grab a oxygen tank and a plasma tank and bring them to the testing lab.
Super cool the Oxygen and superheat the Plasma.

Clean out the oxygen and plasma tanks with a filter/pump.

Then you wrench and unwrench the plasma and oxygen tanks in toxins. It`s important tha you do it one at a time. Try to get a 85%plasma and 15% oxygen mix.

Once you have a good burn mix, pump the mix into the burn chamber and light it on fire. Wait 10 seconds for it to heat up and pump it into a yellow (empty) canister.

Quickly set the kpa output to 163 kpa and fill the tanks with the burn mix.

Take the oxygen tanks and fill it up with a 613kpa worth of oxygen FIRST then fill the rest with plasma, you should get well over 2000kpa in the end.

With the new atmos system you should wait 5-10 minutes for you tanks to bake.

Take a tank transfer valve, add a oxygen tank and a plasma tank to it. You should have a maxcap bomb. Have fun blowing up the station mining!
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Ricotez
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Re: Make paranoia great again

Post by Ricotez » #199460

paprika wrote:>Not making a new game and building off of the current codebase which is pretty rock solid
you are right this has absolutely never been done before
MimicFaux wrote:I remember my first time, full of wonderment and excitement playing this game I had heard so many stories about.
on the arrival shuttle, I saw the iconic toolbox on the ground. I clubbed myself in the head with it trying to figure out the controls.
Setting the tool box, now bloodied, back on the table; I went to heal myself with a medkit. I clubbed myself in the head with that too.
I've come a long ways from asking how to switch hands.
Spoiler:
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Kor wrote:The lifeweb playerbase is primarily old server 2 players so technically its our cancer that invaded them
peoplearestrange wrote:Scared of shadows whispers in their final breath, "/tg/station... goes on the tabl..."
DemonFiren wrote:Please, an Engineer's first response to a problem is "throw it into the singulo".
tedward1337 wrote:Donald Trump is literally what /pol/ would look like as a person
CrunchyCHEEZIT wrote:why does everything on this server have to be a federal fucking issue.
Saegrimr wrote:One guy was running around popping hand tele portals down in the halls before OPs even showed up and got several stranded out on lavaland.
The HoP just toolboxes someone to death out of nowhere, then gets speared by a chemist who saw him murder a guy, then the chemist gets beaten to death because someone else saw him kill the HoP.
Tele-man somehow dies and gets its looted by an atmos tech who managed to use it to send two nuke ops to lavaland, who were then surrounded by several very angry people from earlier and some extra golems on top of it.
Captain dies, gets cloned/revived, lasers the guy holding the disk into crit to take it back.
Some idiot tries to welderbomb the AI hiding out at mining for no discernible reason.
Two permabans and a dayban, i'm expecting a snarky appeal from one of them soon. What the fuck.
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