the thingling, changeling rework
- Armhulen
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the thingling, changeling rework
this came to me on late night sybil so feel free to criticize
The changeling loses all of it's abilities, even revival. It has one ability now called transform. It's basically a human with this one thing.
Transform gives the thingling a random sprite of meat, legs, arms and other yuck. It also has random stats, and a random amount of abilities.
How many stats it has like health and stuff are decided on how many people witness it transform. As a thingling, you have to decide on how you're going to prey, go loud and become the behemoth, destroyer of worlds or stalk maint, getting maybe a tendril to attack or a bone dart.
The abilities it can be passives like surviving high pressures, being space worthy, or exhaling plasma, or something wild like having more arms than it really should. It gets actives, too, like goblin bone darts filled with reagents or something like that.
and finally, holding the form for a long time will slowly kill you. So you have to escape at some point. There should totally be a rare passive that makes the form hold forever, but like I said, rare.
The reason I think this isn't completely shit is because it doesn't make the mistake some gamemodes have in the past. It's not hard to learn. So how about it. Shit? Not shit?
The changeling loses all of it's abilities, even revival. It has one ability now called transform. It's basically a human with this one thing.
Transform gives the thingling a random sprite of meat, legs, arms and other yuck. It also has random stats, and a random amount of abilities.
How many stats it has like health and stuff are decided on how many people witness it transform. As a thingling, you have to decide on how you're going to prey, go loud and become the behemoth, destroyer of worlds or stalk maint, getting maybe a tendril to attack or a bone dart.
The abilities it can be passives like surviving high pressures, being space worthy, or exhaling plasma, or something wild like having more arms than it really should. It gets actives, too, like goblin bone darts filled with reagents or something like that.
and finally, holding the form for a long time will slowly kill you. So you have to escape at some point. There should totally be a rare passive that makes the form hold forever, but like I said, rare.
The reason I think this isn't completely shit is because it doesn't make the mistake some gamemodes have in the past. It's not hard to learn. So how about it. Shit? Not shit?
- CPTANT
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
Shit.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Lumbermancer
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
If I had to rework Changeling i'd combine it with Morph, and make it all about pretending to be somebody else and roleplaying your way in.
- Armhulen
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
right now you can just stay as one person and silently kill everyone with mutestingLumbermancer wrote:If I had to rework Changeling i'd combine it with Morph, and make it all about pretending to be somebody else and roleplaying your way in.
and i dislike it
- PKPenguin321
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
lame
only reasons changelings now are """""bad"""" is because nobody knows about how stupidly robust transform is with flesh disguises
what you propose takes away the ability to do anything cool aside from murder people for 4 seconds before instantly dying
only reasons changelings now are """""bad"""" is because nobody knows about how stupidly robust transform is with flesh disguises
what you propose takes away the ability to do anything cool aside from murder people for 4 seconds before instantly dying
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- Anonmare
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
I don't think Changeling can work as standalone antagonists. As a stealth antag, they don't drive enough conflict to keep a round going. As a combat antag, they're too strong and too unkillable.
That said, if you were deadset on making them their own gamemode. I had some thought about Changeling and I'd like to re-introduce Changelings able to steal EP from one another and install a progression system based around achieving their own shared idea of "perfection" which could be a horror form possibly the same one or variable depending on the path they take to get there.
Changelings begin the game with 5 EP, Hivemind chat, Transform, their objectives and the rest of the usual. The genome shop, or whatever it's called, separates out abilities into: Offensive, Defensive, Stealth and Utility with effectiveness increasing in cost, but you have to buy lower in the tree to progress in it.
For example, for 1 EP you can unlock the "tree" and get a minor boost/ability/buff in any of these ability paths, like spending a point in combat to open it up and passively increase your base muscle mass to increase your punch damage slightly and get a better RNG chance of weakening or knocking out. Spending 2 EP gives you the armblade, but you have to buy the muscle mass to open the tree, and another ability (say, a toggleable ability that greatly increases your punch damage in exchange for draining your chems) beforehand.
Some of the trees might have crossover and in order to get a particular ability, you'll have to have acquired two other abilities from different trees, like an armoured bio-space suit requiring chitinous armoured flesh ability and the organic space suit ability.
DNA sting would be weakened and you'll only get 1 point for every 5 people stung. Absorbing a person will give you 2-4 points, depending on how intact/fresh the corpse is. Corpses that have never had a c-key/soul are only worth one point. Absorbing your fellow Changelings will give you the usual point gain, and, their own acquired EP. You'll also make them unevolve a random ability, meaning there is a risk/benefit of Changelings working together/turning on one another. If anyone wanted any idea of how the abilities would play it, I tried my best to put together a list.
Base Abilities
Combat
Defence
Stealth
Utility
That said, if you were deadset on making them their own gamemode. I had some thought about Changeling and I'd like to re-introduce Changelings able to steal EP from one another and install a progression system based around achieving their own shared idea of "perfection" which could be a horror form possibly the same one or variable depending on the path they take to get there.
Changelings begin the game with 5 EP, Hivemind chat, Transform, their objectives and the rest of the usual. The genome shop, or whatever it's called, separates out abilities into: Offensive, Defensive, Stealth and Utility with effectiveness increasing in cost, but you have to buy lower in the tree to progress in it.
For example, for 1 EP you can unlock the "tree" and get a minor boost/ability/buff in any of these ability paths, like spending a point in combat to open it up and passively increase your base muscle mass to increase your punch damage slightly and get a better RNG chance of weakening or knocking out. Spending 2 EP gives you the armblade, but you have to buy the muscle mass to open the tree, and another ability (say, a toggleable ability that greatly increases your punch damage in exchange for draining your chems) beforehand.
Some of the trees might have crossover and in order to get a particular ability, you'll have to have acquired two other abilities from different trees, like an armoured bio-space suit requiring chitinous armoured flesh ability and the organic space suit ability.
DNA sting would be weakened and you'll only get 1 point for every 5 people stung. Absorbing a person will give you 2-4 points, depending on how intact/fresh the corpse is. Corpses that have never had a c-key/soul are only worth one point. Absorbing your fellow Changelings will give you the usual point gain, and, their own acquired EP. You'll also make them unevolve a random ability, meaning there is a risk/benefit of Changelings working together/turning on one another. If anyone wanted any idea of how the abilities would play it, I tried my best to put together a list.
Base Abilities
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Spoiler:
- Armhulen
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
kinda reminds me of the being, with the research tree thing. I like it. doesn't really solve the problems pk pointed out
and you know, personally I don't think changelings are bad at all. They can wipe lowpop and kill pretty freely on highpop, if you're decent at the game. And that's without using flesh disguise, which together makes the changeling in-fucking-sane
and you know, personally I don't think changelings are bad at all. They can wipe lowpop and kill pretty freely on highpop, if you're decent at the game. And that's without using flesh disguise, which together makes the changeling in-fucking-sane
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
The reason that changeling is a failure of a round type is because of how similar it is to traitor.
The difference being that traitor is not only a much more balanced roundtype, the traitor toolkit is just far more varied. So many different options of traitor are available, as opposed to the singular changeling style of "stealth kill, remove people from round permanently."
Traitor is just fundamentally preferable as a roundtype to changeling. It's also obnoxious how changeling get tools in combat that are just fucking nuts, like being able to get up from stuns, and being able to get up from death. A retractable esword that can't be disarmed. All their tools are internal, something a traitor only gets through implants, and even those aren't as fucking batshit as changeling powers.
Changeling tries to be this weird place on the power scaling, something between wizard and traitor in terms of power, which seems like a decent purpose for the round, but the round is just so fundamentally unfun alone that it has to be paired with traitor in order to be ANY fun, even then dealing with changelings isn't fun. It's just stressful and annoying.
Changelings need a purpose in order to be enjoyable. I honestly suggest scrapping the whole role, and redesigning it in name only.
My own suggestion: In a new changeling round, it's announced at round start that there are changelings aboard. If a changeling succeeds in getting off the station, they succeed. Several departments have methods of detecting changelings. Changelings still have abilities that make them harder to subdue and kill, the ability to change into other people, but no "offensive" abilities, and they have limited uses. Suddenly the round is still similar to traitor, but it has its own unique flavor, and isn't just a second version of a better round.
My idea isn't great, but it's a jumping off point. Changeling needs to be redesigned from the ground up. If you can't figure out how to make a round type have a purpose, then it just shouldn't be a round type.
The reason that changeling is a failure of a round type is because of how similar it is to traitor.
The difference being that traitor is not only a much more balanced roundtype, the traitor toolkit is just far more varied. So many different options of traitor are available, as opposed to the singular changeling style of "stealth kill, remove people from round permanently."
Traitor is just fundamentally preferable as a roundtype to changeling. It's also obnoxious how changeling get tools in combat that are just fucking nuts, like being able to get up from stuns, and being able to get up from death. A retractable esword that can't be disarmed. All their tools are internal, something a traitor only gets through implants, and even those aren't as fucking batshit as changeling powers.
Changeling tries to be this weird place on the power scaling, something between wizard and traitor in terms of power, which seems like a decent purpose for the round, but the round is just so fundamentally unfun alone that it has to be paired with traitor in order to be ANY fun, even then dealing with changelings isn't fun. It's just stressful and annoying.
Changelings need a purpose in order to be enjoyable. I honestly suggest scrapping the whole role, and redesigning it in name only.
My own suggestion: In a new changeling round, it's announced at round start that there are changelings aboard. If a changeling succeeds in getting off the station, they succeed. Several departments have methods of detecting changelings. Changelings still have abilities that make them harder to subdue and kill, the ability to change into other people, but no "offensive" abilities, and they have limited uses. Suddenly the round is still similar to traitor, but it has its own unique flavor, and isn't just a second version of a better round.
My idea isn't great, but it's a jumping off point. Changeling needs to be redesigned from the ground up. If you can't figure out how to make a round type have a purpose, then it just shouldn't be a round type.
- CPTANT
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
The solution is still side antag progression ling.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Armhulen
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Re: fixing the ling
Okay forget op we need to fix lings
We need to encourage ling vs ling fights.
We need to encourage ling vs ling fights.
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Re: fixing the ling
The obvious nonanswer is to first say that Ling v Ling should definitely NOT BE a greentext objective and should instead be a passive encouragement. Outside of that I know absolutely nothing about Lings.Armhulen wrote:Okay forget op we need to fix lings
We need to encourage ling vs ling fights.
- Lumbermancer
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
90% of the time I rat out fellow lings. It's really fun to work for sec and heads hunting other lings down, while in the same time achieving own objectives backstabbing your new allies if need be.
- Dagdammit
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
In the last changeling thread, I was thinking it'd be interesting to make serial impersonation a direct changeling goal- spend at least 5 minutes apiece in the forms of X different fellow crew members. If progression ling, tie it directly to progression; if not, make it necessary for greentext.
One thing I'm curious about examining: What other kinds of ling objectives might be good? Maybe stuff to replace the theft objectives they currently share with traitors?
One thing I'm curious about examining: What other kinds of ling objectives might be good? Maybe stuff to replace the theft objectives they currently share with traitors?
- Anonmare
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
Changelings used to have an objective to steal brains. Back then, before dismemberment, getting someone's brain required surgery. Might be worth revisting now that armblades can decapitate and debrain. Maybe expand the objective into generic organ theft? Maybe even an objective to escape with a high amount of blood in your possession.
- D&B
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
A good starting point would be to treat ling more like the Prototype virus rather than the proper changeling from the thing.
I remember there being a locked progression system in game based on points from things killed. Thus, maybe absorbing people gets you stuck with their identity rather than beijg able to toggle it on and off. In order to change identities, you'd have to absorb someone else.
The pro to this con would be that rather than active skills, the ling would get passive skills that increase its overall power or stealth. You can either sharpen your arm blade to make it hurt more, or develop your grab skills to not show a warning to your target. You could fine tune your screeches to affect a small radius and make you able to isolate someone, at the cost of less aoe range.
Thus the ling player would be forced to get creative with low resources, or have to pretend to be the person they just sucked in order to evolve their abilities. Make objectives such like "unlock x and x" or "evolve to your full potential" in order to encourage ling players to pick one of the two paths.
Then again it sounds broken on paper so maybe somebody could tweak around it.
I remember there being a locked progression system in game based on points from things killed. Thus, maybe absorbing people gets you stuck with their identity rather than beijg able to toggle it on and off. In order to change identities, you'd have to absorb someone else.
The pro to this con would be that rather than active skills, the ling would get passive skills that increase its overall power or stealth. You can either sharpen your arm blade to make it hurt more, or develop your grab skills to not show a warning to your target. You could fine tune your screeches to affect a small radius and make you able to isolate someone, at the cost of less aoe range.
Thus the ling player would be forced to get creative with low resources, or have to pretend to be the person they just sucked in order to evolve their abilities. Make objectives such like "unlock x and x" or "evolve to your full potential" in order to encourage ling players to pick one of the two paths.
Then again it sounds broken on paper so maybe somebody could tweak around it.
Spoiler:
- Dagdammit
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
also a rehash from past thread, but I'd love to see a changeling choosing one of several "types" at roundstart, which changes how they get new DNA, transform, and their strengths & weaknesses. Say:
Fledge Ling: About the same as present, maybe more progression elements.
Elder Ling: Non-progression option, basically ling Syndicate Bundle- you get a full set of powers but some/all are determined randomly.
Blood Drinker: Progresses by drinking blood, has a "taste blood" sting instead of extract DNA sting that undetectably drains small amounts & absorbing target just starts draining blood until it's all gone or the ling chooses to stop (potentially not killing target). Can use taste blood to sample dna of bloodstains like a forensic scanner, though the code it gives may not be DNA. Full power list.
Spider Ling: Reduced points to spend because you also get the spawn spiderling power. Reduced access to combat-oriented powers. Has to wrap victims in web (or let other spiders do so) before they can absorb them. Can sense spiders and spiderlings through walls, counts as friendly and can give them simple silent orders like with with xeno and their slimes. Horror form is replaced with form of extra-nasty-looking giant spider (incapacitating bite). Also, can maybe coccoon self to hide.
Thing Ling: To me this would be all about a couple angles- this ling absorbs biomass, can quietly absorb things like gibs and limbs into its body (and gets similar benefits from uncooked meat), in addition to absorbing fresh bodies. Limbs sever more easily. Ling can shift consciousness to new part of body, and will continue dwelling in a limb if it's severed (becoming a kind of lesser form that can absorb a new body to use it or go back to their existing body to reattach). Otherwise, severed limbs become npc mobs that play dead but will flee if they take damage, & slowly creep towards nearby dead bodies in hopes of absorbing them. Standard ling powers would be significantly curtailed, instead choosing from a number of passive custom upgrades (better attacks, regen, spaceworthy, digital camo...) to horror form (which starts as much weaker than standard horror form but is also easier for Thing Ling to turn on and off).
I like the idea that figuring out what KIND of ling(s) you're hunting (or being hunted by) makes a big difference in terms of what you wanna do to fight/kill them.
Fledge Ling: About the same as present, maybe more progression elements.
Elder Ling: Non-progression option, basically ling Syndicate Bundle- you get a full set of powers but some/all are determined randomly.
Blood Drinker: Progresses by drinking blood, has a "taste blood" sting instead of extract DNA sting that undetectably drains small amounts & absorbing target just starts draining blood until it's all gone or the ling chooses to stop (potentially not killing target). Can use taste blood to sample dna of bloodstains like a forensic scanner, though the code it gives may not be DNA. Full power list.
Spider Ling: Reduced points to spend because you also get the spawn spiderling power. Reduced access to combat-oriented powers. Has to wrap victims in web (or let other spiders do so) before they can absorb them. Can sense spiders and spiderlings through walls, counts as friendly and can give them simple silent orders like with with xeno and their slimes. Horror form is replaced with form of extra-nasty-looking giant spider (incapacitating bite). Also, can maybe coccoon self to hide.
Thing Ling: To me this would be all about a couple angles- this ling absorbs biomass, can quietly absorb things like gibs and limbs into its body (and gets similar benefits from uncooked meat), in addition to absorbing fresh bodies. Limbs sever more easily. Ling can shift consciousness to new part of body, and will continue dwelling in a limb if it's severed (becoming a kind of lesser form that can absorb a new body to use it or go back to their existing body to reattach). Otherwise, severed limbs become npc mobs that play dead but will flee if they take damage, & slowly creep towards nearby dead bodies in hopes of absorbing them. Standard ling powers would be significantly curtailed, instead choosing from a number of passive custom upgrades (better attacks, regen, spaceworthy, digital camo...) to horror form (which starts as much weaker than standard horror form but is also easier for Thing Ling to turn on and off).
I like the idea that figuring out what KIND of ling(s) you're hunting (or being hunted by) makes a big difference in terms of what you wanna do to fight/kill them.
- Armhulen
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
Thank you for your quality postfirecage wrote:I stopped reading after the first sentence. Meh.
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Re: the thingling, changeling rework
Don't respond to such posts, just report them please
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