New Bar Room

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:29 pm #18761

Bottom post of the previous page:

What if I flipped it sideways (Left to right instead of Up and Down)? It would require a bunch of work on my end (Having to remake all the other Holodeck designs and their areas) but that would work.

Also I'm reworking the maintenance shaft to lead to a door below the Boxing ring, as well as a delivery point for the MULE.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:58 pm #18763

Suggestions:

Spoiler:

Also I think the whole bar should have a lot more windows, so that everything can be seen clearly from the hallway.

And frankly I don't see a problem with having lots of tables.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:01 pm #18764

The main hallway is still 3 tiles wide, the kitchen has always had an indentation so people waiting for food don't block the hallway.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:08 pm #18767

Here's an image showing the main corridor as well just for the bigger picture, as well as showing off the new Holodeck and other minor changes.

Spoiler:

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:16 pm #18768

Steelpoint wrote:The main hallway is still 3 tiles wide, the kitchen has always had an indentation so people waiting for food don't block the hallway.

Ah! I mixed that up, okay then.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:59 pm #18774

Those double walls in the freezer should be removed in favor of more freezer space. Double walls are gross.
Having the holodeck peek into the casino area like that looks bad. If you moved the place one over and kept the doors in the same spot, it would probably look nicer.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:08 pm #18777

It did not look nice when I pushed the holodeck over, I was able to iron out this though.

Spoiler:

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:13 pm #18780

That does look much nicer though.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:24 pm #18783

Yeah its much better now, I just had to reorder the Boxing ring room since it looked awkward and out of place if I just moved the holodeck.

*EDIT* I recently noticed a PR was merged that changed how space areas work, so I'll have to transfer everything I've done onto a new slate. No problem really but its just a thing for myself to worry about.

My main check-list left is to add a area for a MULE to drop off supplies to the Bar and to fully redo all the Holodeck areas to match with the new rotation.

I'll likley attempt a PR of this along side all the other Boxstation related changes I am making.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:28 am #18855

I think I'm mostly finished with the new Bar design!

Atmo is fully pipped, powernets are functional, cameras show no blind spots, disposals works, everything is cheeky. I added in the MULE drop off point with a privacy shutter, fleshed out the nearby maint, fixed a problem with the holodeck (The Shoreline blocked space exposed holodeck tiles). All good.

Here is a final, in game image, of the new Bar. (Yes the holodeck's Scrubber/Vent is off, that's fixed)

Spoiler:

Kelenius · Post by **Kelenius** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:30 am #18865

Can you like... take the boxing ring and move it one tile to the right? The asymmetry of holodeck's placement in relation to ring is killing me.

Also, that hole in a wall in bartender's private room is... not good. Privacy shutter is a bad idea, because when it's closed, MULE is stuck.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:43 am #18869

You can't see into the Bartenders Private room nor can he look out, if anything its slightly harder to get in. The privacy shutter is open by default and is really on there if people throwing themselves under the flaps becomes a problem that round.

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:09 am #18874

I like it, I like everything about it.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:45 am #18879

I would put up a PR just to get my foot in the door for the end of the freeze, but sadly there are multiple map related PR's that make alterations to areas I'm working on that appeared in the last few hours, such as the Bar and similar. Since I hate merge conflicts with all my passion and life I'm going to have to wait for the PR's to eventually get merged.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:39 am #18890

Okay, the only complaint I've got is that 1-tile thing below the stage. There's gonna be clusterfuck there in every theater encounter. Like when mime suddenly starts eswording clown and five assistants rush in. May be extending the stage onto that last tile is better. Also you've got like single vent and single scrubber, not counting stage, to cover the whole big ass bar. There are no scrubbers in the little arcade machine room, too.

Possibly another light source in clown's room? It's kinda dark in there.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:16 am #18893

doesn't need to be 5 arcade machines, 3 is fine. Use the other two machines on the right for a food/cig dispenser.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:24 am #18898

Seems fine that way. I'll give my hand on trying to make the boxing ring more asymmetrical, and the Arcade Machines/Air Vents/1 Tile Hallway stuff.

Pennwick · Post by **Pennwick** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:38 pm #18936

To be honest I have a lot of issues with this idea. Mainly for the fact you're sacrificing a whole lot for the casino area which will probably never see use outside of the goodies, tables, and floor tiles being looted out of it.

Clown, Mime, and Bartender all lose access to their corner of maintenance. A casual passerby will hardly see any of the bar, Mostly just the theater and arcade. The way it is now when you walk by, if you're hugging the wall, you can see 75% of the Falcon. Heads already hardly ever use their conference room. It doesn't seem likely they'll take advantage of a private bar room outside of stealing the cigar assuming assistants don't table themselves for it first.

If you want a comfy area for Heads the conference room could have a liquor cabintet added with a few bottles and a shaker. No need to totally transform the bar area and add in a casino.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:56 pm #18940

While I understand your concern, I must put forward the argument that connecting the Fitness Room, the HoloDeck and the Bar together would enable for these facilities to see somewhat more regular use. As was stated earlier, there is no good reason, double so now from the expanded maint, for these areas to remain separated. The only thing blocking these two areas off is a dead end part of Maintenance.

If anything I feel bringing the theatre forward to be more easily viewable may better offer the chance for a entrepreneurial Clown and/or Mime to better put off a performance that will be more easily noticed, and the Gambling Rooms adds a official area for more gimmicky things to occur.

In fact, the only thing it needs is a working chess board. If only I could code...

The Mime's, Clown's and Bartenders loss of a maintenance access route is a unintended side effect of these changes, however I feel that is not a very good reason by itself.

I also feel the Officer's Lounge (Predicting some Sec Officers mistaking they have access to it) would, at bare minimum, offer a unique "gimmick" or even a interesting alternative meeting point, due to it being the first place on Boxstation in recent memory to use Tinted Glass.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:28 pm #18954

Pennwick wrote:Clown, Mime, and Bartender all lose access to their corner of maintenance. A casual passerby will hardly see any of the bar, Mostly just the theater and arcade.

Yeah, these are very valid concerns actually.

rosello · Post by **rosello** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:45 pm #18981

Where's the wall-basketball been moved to?

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:05 pm #18985

put a windoor on the vip table
move the meat locker one over
put the broom on a table
add entertainment monitors everywhere, especially the back room

Jalleo · Post by **Jalleo** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:14 pm #18988

I would have to agree on the arcade area that is kinda iffy you have done very well in a lot of terms.
But the main issue is that people have half pointed out you are still rigid in your designs.
The casino area is a good idea but for saving space why not just merge it with fitness it would take less space in total if done right and would probably look a bit better and more dynamic.

That area inbetween maint and fitness can easily go its redundant to stay there and will only cause issues when bombs occur that would help on saving space with the merging of fitness and the casino area. (plus merging the two areas and redesigning it can make it having the feel of a back room of the bar where bar fights are a part of the gambling)

The new place for the barman I am not totally sure about for the backroom it may cause unforseen issues but I am fine with trying it out but I think it may be better to rework a part of the kitchen area to let the barman access maint again.

With the theatre it looks reasonable where it is and possible could be better somewhere else but I am not sure exactly myself at the moment

It looks clunky currently with the entrance to the gambling area and then having to go to fitness through the gambling area I do think it may be best to merge the two areas for this to get better but a more bandaid fix would be to add a side door to the bar which will look out of place.

If you are able to merge fitness and the gambling area in the right way I think you may be able to rotate the holodeck back to pretty much how it originally was meaning less requirements to change the rotation of the holodeck as you currently have to do.

I think that maybe it may be best to commence a blank slate of the whole area and the thought of moving some of the other areas if required around the bar fitness and gambling area may be best to make a better bar overall as it currently is it looks like a possible good addition to the station but is currently locked in by the archaic layout of how they looked previously.

Overall its a very good attempt.

Maybe try thinking of moving the toilets somewhere else in the dormitory and moving about some other things to try and get the theater and barman maint access again. Not to mention think about merging the gambling area and fitness overall it may look a whole lot better and serve better overall for RP by merging the places.

MedicInDisquise · Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:42 pm

You can easily merge Fitness/Dorms and the Casino. You can also easily merge the Bar and Casino. Either way you do it, it'd look smoother then it is right now.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
Pennwick wrote:Clown, Mime, and Bartender all lose access to their corner of maintenance. A casual passerby will hardly see any of the bar, Mostly just the theater and arcade.
Yeah, these are very valid concerns actually.

This too. Maybe compact the Casino and Bar a bit, which you can definitely get away with. Give that space to Dorms/Fitness or a continuation of the eastern maintenance.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:06 am #19156

Interesting feedback.

What I did the first time around was to compleatly deleate the Bar, the Theatre, the east part of Maint and the Holodeck/Fitness room and worked from scratch.

What I'll do is remove the Toilets and see what I can make with the additional space. I can probley push the Toilets to where the Gambling room is, and squeeze in the new rooms into the area the Toilets is currently, this would let me give back Maint Access to the Clown/Mime/Bartender as well as possibly find a way to put the MULE drop off point back into Maint.

I'll see what I can make.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:53 am #19170

I'm not too sure how to feel about this new design, I think I'll let all of you be the judge.

As usual, its a first iteration, its rough around the edges heavily and lacks polish, also the old design is still around though this is just an alternative.

Spoiler:

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:12 pm #19171

More bar windows, less emptiness in the hallway above

Nienhaus · Post by **Nienhaus** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:47 pm #19175

I like it, but it's really, really open.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:06 pm #19178

Open in what way?

Anyway, here's a slightly different version. The Toilets have been curtailed significantly though.

Spoiler:

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:57 pm #19182

Try to leave at least two tiles in front of delivery chutes so crates can be easily pushed around.

I wish you could find another solution other than that empty 2-wide hallway.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:13 pm #19186

Just for you Ikarrus I made this.

Spoiler:

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:39 pm #19247

Kinda strange to me that the boxing ring is walled off only to the casino. Add a door on the dorms side. And maintenance is going to need to go around it all eventually. The Booze-O-Mat looks awkward sitting in the middle of a three tile wide aisle. I don't know how you'd fix it but I'd think the bar backroom should connect to behind the counter.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:47 pm #19264

Put some regular arcades near the gambling machines, nobody is going to use 5 of them

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:26 am #19313

Cipher3 wrote:Kinda strange to me that the boxing ring is walled off only to the casino. Add a door on the dorms side. And maintenance is going to need to go around it all eventually. The Booze-O-Mat looks awkward sitting in the middle of a three tile wide aisle.

Done. Maybe but might be akward. Done.

Cipher3 wrote:I don't know how you'd fix it but I'd think the bar backroom should connect to behind the counter.

The only way I could fix it is to rework the Kitchen and make it smaller, I've already shrunk down the size of the Freezer Room already to accommodate the Bar Storage Room.

paprika wrote:Put some regular arcades near the gambling machines, nobody is going to use 5 of them

Done.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:30 am #19314

Added a Poll to get a general feel on which of my two designs is the more wanted/popular version.

pixelhunter · Post by **pixelhunter** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:52 pm #19520

The one thing that bothered me about the newest bar design is: Why does the bartender have to leave his bar to go to his storage? So I came up with a solution myself and did this:

Spoiler:

The only con I can see is that the window between the bar and the kitchen is gone.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:31 pm #19522

If I was to continue with that design I would likley push out the Theatre's Backstage out into space by one tile to give a 2 wide maint corridor.

While I like both designs, I think I'll use the first design for the PR since more people seem to like it.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:02 pm #19532

As a comprimise to the concern of the Bartender and the Clown/Mime losing their Maintenance access point, I'll rename the Fitness Room Maint Airlock to be uniquely identified and the Bartender/Mime/Clown access to that door.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:07 pm #19561

>override holodeck with emag
>burn down the entire bar

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:26 pm #19564

But that's great, emagging holodeck would actually be useful

Besides, firelocks.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:31 pm #19566

But that would also be done every fucking round. Holodeck plasma breaks windows.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:41 pm #19576

Somehow I doubt it would be done every round. For what purpose?

suomynonAyletamitlU · Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:04 pm

If you change the size or orientation of the holodeck and theater I will fucking cut you

More seriously both of them are awful. Big areas of standing space are basically a waste and are also visually jarring, and both have too much; ideally it should be arranged to minimize that. It seems weird for the bartender to not have maintenance access; having his stock room out from behind the bar is also a no-no, because that is sort of a safe room for him to flee into when attacked (hence the shotgun). The theater backroom also needs a second exit.

The opaque-walled arcade just sort of acts as an unpleasant antechamber that nobody is really likely to use, the piano needs to be more centralized to annoy the largest number of people when used, personally I dislike the consistently square tables (I have a 2x1 and a 3x1 in the bar, and it looks good). The wood tables in the middle of nowhere with only one chair on them are just as bad if not worse

The excessive use of glass walls I don't think helps anything; antags prefer opaque walls both because they are laserproof and because people can't hear you talking on the other side. The smoking room would be a nice meeting point for antags if it was opaque.

But yeah, personally I object to changing the dimensions of the holodeck and theater because sayucode has additional stuff for both (the theater floor is a second holodeck that only changes the floor to setpieces, with a library of like 10-20). From that angle, putting the holodeck and theater together is silly, although honestly the same objection applies anyway. If anything, it would be better to combine them and make the holodeck into the theater, officially, with a bunch of extra theater floors. That way if the clown wants to re-enact clown.wmv in the theater, he can, and if you kick them out you can play basketball.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:21 am #19620

suomynonAyletamitlU wrote:If you change the size or orientation of the holodeck and theater I will fucking cut you

I'm scared, also what a way to start off your feedback.

suomynonAyletamitlU wrote:More seriously both of them are awful. Big areas of standing space are basically a waste and are also visually jarring, and both have too much; ideally it should be arranged to minimize that.

Here's the Bar as it stands on the server.

Spoiler:

Here's my current interpretation of the Bar, slightly old image but still.

Spoiler:

What standing space? The area's that are empty in my design are no worse than the current Bar design and are unavoidable.

suomynonAyletamitlU wrote:It seems weird for the bartender to not have maintenance access; having his stock room out from behind the bar is also a no-no, because that is sort of a safe room for him to flee into when attacked (hence the shotgun).

As I've said already, the Clown, Mime and Bartender will be given access to the Bar's Maint Airlock. In addition in the design I've said I'll use, design 1, the Bar Tender's backroom is connected to the bar.

suomynonAyletamitlU wrote:The opaque-walled arcade just sort of acts as an unpleasant antechamber that nobody is really likely to use, the piano needs to be more centralized to annoy the largest number of people when used, personally I dislike the consistently square tables (I have a 2x1 and a 3x1 in the bar, and it looks good). The wood tables in the middle of nowhere with only one chair on them are just as bad if not worse

Subjective opinion, the Arcade area serves to cut down on unneeded empty space that looked even worse originally, the Piano is near the centre of the bar, the tables are the exact same design as almost every Bar design in existence.

suomynonAyletamitlU wrote:The excessive use of glass walls I don't think helps anything; antags prefer opaque walls both because they are laserproof and because people can't hear you talking on the other side. The smoking room would be a nice meeting point for antags if it was opaque.

(Just to clarify those Glass Windows are opaque). That room however is Head access only, antags are better off meeting in the Holodeck, Dorms, Maintenence, anywhere else than a somewhat public area.

suomynonAyletamitlU wrote:But yeah, personally I object to changing the dimensions of the holodeck and theater because sayucode has additional stuff for both (the theater floor is a second holodeck that only changes the floor to setpieces, with a library of like 10-20). From that angle, putting the holodeck and theater together is silly, although honestly the same objection applies anyway. If anything, it would be better to combine them and make the holodeck into the theater, officially, with a bunch of extra theater floors. That way if the clown wants to re-enact clown.wmv in the theater, he can, and if you kick them out you can play basketball.

Are you saying there are more Holodeck designs than the eight or so on the map?

Also to be frank, why should I care about some special "code" someone made when they clearly have no intention to do anything with it, considering the Bar has gone unchanged in design for years?

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:39 am #19623

You need to have a delivery door otherwise it'd be too easy to just slip in and loot the shotgun.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:18 am #19624

I should just take a screenshot instead of pointing out that's a old picture.

There is a door, but that won't matter if someone wants to steal the shotgun. If anything its actually harder to steal it now since you have to break in via the main hallway and not in maintenance.

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:57 pm #19676

Version one has too many walls, you should be able to see what's happening in the bar from anywhere in the bar.
Version two is a bit too open, it should be condensed a little or you should add more tables.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:07 am #20536

Now we're talking.

Which Bar design would you like to see added.