What *is* the 'bomb equation'?: A newbie question
- Cavoglave
- Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:39 pm
- Byond Username: Cavoglave
What *is* the 'bomb equation'?: A newbie question
I see that an algorithm for the strength of an explosion exists as ignite() in bomb.dm, but the comments in that file explicitly state that the proc is only valid for single-tank bombs.
However, in the code for the tank transfer valve, no equivalent explosion function exists; all that seems to happen on opening the valve is that all the gas is crammed into the second tank.
Is it that, once the valve is opened, the tanks combine to form a single (abstract) tank, upon which ignite() is called to make the explosion TTVs are known for?
Any clarification would be helpful.
However, in the code for the tank transfer valve, no equivalent explosion function exists; all that seems to happen on opening the valve is that all the gas is crammed into the second tank.
Is it that, once the valve is opened, the tanks combine to form a single (abstract) tank, upon which ignite() is called to make the explosion TTVs are known for?
Any clarification would be helpful.
Last edited by Cavoglave on Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- imblyings
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:42 pm
- Byond Username: Ausops
- Location: >using suit sensors
Re: What *is* the 'bomb equation"?: A newbie question
I'm pretty sure what you're wanting to check is the tank code itself.
yeah
as far as I know, ttv's mix the bombmix. What that does is mix your plasma and oxygen together which ignite and create super hot CO2 which also expands like hell creating a lot of pressure. The higher the pressure that results from the two gasses mixing, the higher the bang. Where the bang actually does come from is the sheer pressure overwhelming both tanks and causing them to explode.
edit- now figuring out the equation for making an optimal bombmix, that's another thing altogether
Spoiler:
as far as I know, ttv's mix the bombmix. What that does is mix your plasma and oxygen together which ignite and create super hot CO2 which also expands like hell creating a lot of pressure. The higher the pressure that results from the two gasses mixing, the higher the bang. Where the bang actually does come from is the sheer pressure overwhelming both tanks and causing them to explode.
edit- now figuring out the equation for making an optimal bombmix, that's another thing altogether
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
- Remie Richards
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:11 pm
- Byond Username: CrimsonVision
- Location: England, UK, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Known Universe
- Contact:
Re: What *is* the 'bomb equation"?: A newbie question
Research on the best bombs is still actually on going.
the closest (Public) research is by Myself and as334 and as far as I'm aware we've hit a brick wall with some bad maths.
the closest (Public) research is by Myself and as334 and as far as I'm aware we've hit a brick wall with some bad maths.
私は完璧
- invisty
- Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 12:02 am
- Byond Username: Invisty
Re: What *is* the 'bomb equation"?: A newbie question
As I understand it...
From global vars:
TANK_LEAK_PRESSURE = 3000kPa
TANK_RUPTURE_PRESSURE = 4000kPa
TANK_FRAGMENT_PRESSURE = 5000kPa
TANK_FRAGMENT_SCALE: 1000kPa
The pressure has to build faster than it can leak, and this can take a varying amount of time depending on how well your reaction occurs. You can have very slow reactions that take several ticks of atmos processing before they go off - but if they're too slow they'll either just leak or rupture, not fragment. The best bombs go off in one tick of atmos processing.
Note that:
air_contents.react()
air_contents.react()
air_contents.react()
This is what TTVs have that make them more bombworthy than single-tank/canisterbombs. It gives three calls of atmos processing on the TTV, allowing for far greater yields before the actual explosion is calculated.
How much a canister/TTV explodes depends on the pressure. Where the pressure exceeds the TANK_FRAGMENT_PRESSURE, it will explode. How big depends on how far over that pressure threshold it is.
So that's basically RANGE = (PRESSURE_AFTER_REACTION - 5000)/1000
Devastation: 0.25 * RANGE,
Heavy damage: 0.5 * RANGE,
Light damage: 1.5 * RANGE.
From global vars:
TANK_LEAK_PRESSURE = 3000kPa
TANK_RUPTURE_PRESSURE = 4000kPa
TANK_FRAGMENT_PRESSURE = 5000kPa
TANK_FRAGMENT_SCALE: 1000kPa
The pressure has to build faster than it can leak, and this can take a varying amount of time depending on how well your reaction occurs. You can have very slow reactions that take several ticks of atmos processing before they go off - but if they're too slow they'll either just leak or rupture, not fragment. The best bombs go off in one tick of atmos processing.
Note that:
air_contents.react()
air_contents.react()
air_contents.react()
This is what TTVs have that make them more bombworthy than single-tank/canisterbombs. It gives three calls of atmos processing on the TTV, allowing for far greater yields before the actual explosion is calculated.
How much a canister/TTV explodes depends on the pressure. Where the pressure exceeds the TANK_FRAGMENT_PRESSURE, it will explode. How big depends on how far over that pressure threshold it is.
So that's basically RANGE = (PRESSURE_AFTER_REACTION - 5000)/1000
Devastation: 0.25 * RANGE,
Heavy damage: 0.5 * RANGE,
Light damage: 1.5 * RANGE.
Mime: Depresso
- Bluespace
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:04 pm
- Byond Username: Bluespace
- Location: UK
Re: What *is* the 'bomb equation'?: A newbie question
It's fairly easy to make maxcap bombs.
The challenge is making bombs that blow up half the station when bomb cap is removed.
There's also different types of bombs. Some blow up slow, some blow up fast, some cause a giant fireball, some cause immense damage to organics.
The challenge is making bombs that blow up half the station when bomb cap is removed.
There's also different types of bombs. Some blow up slow, some blow up fast, some cause a giant fireball, some cause immense damage to organics.
- DemonFiren
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
- Byond Username: DemonFiren
Re: What *is* the 'bomb equation'?: A newbie question
I am ashamed to say that, despite my atmospheric robustitude, I never figured out how to make non-fizzles in fastmos.
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: What *is* the 'bomb equation'?: A newbie question
>Get CO2 can, Plasma can, Oxy can, mix them all together.
>Put mix can on a heater
>Contents inside ignite and burn
>Left with SUPERHOT/SUPERPRESSURE mix (40k) that is 80% CO2, 20% Oxy
>Get pure plasma can
>Put on heater
>Plasma magically ignites (maybe some of the tiny amount of air between the pad and the heater, even though I formatted the setup to make them adjacent
>Left with SORTAHOT/SORTAPRESSURE (2k temp) mix that is 90% plasma, 10% CO2
Take 2 plasma tanks, empty one, leave the other with the default plasma contents.
Put empty tank into the plasma tank to maximize the amount of hot plasma, Put the default tank into the HOTHOTHOT mixtank.
Here's where it gets weird. The empty plasma tank into the plasma can (full pressure releave) ends up getting you a superhot tank that is 80% plasma. The 300kpa plasma tank into the superhotmix (I have to do roughly 50% pressure because full leads to rupturing) leaves me with a tank that is 90% plasma but only gets to about 2k temp (which is weird because 2k is precisely what the other can got to, while this can is like 40k+ temp).
So basically, putting a little bit of plasma into a hot tank with no plasma yields more plasma and less heat than putting an empty tank into a warm plasma can.
The "warm" tank with 90% plasma also yields huge (overcap) explosions while the hotter 80% tank yields kinda sub-cap explosions. (They were matched with identical chilled o2 tanks)
So yea atmos mixing is voodoo and I'm not closer to understanding it. The most powerful bombs I've seen (double maxcaps) actually use co2 to dilute the hot mix... making your hot/plasma tank with only a few hundred (300-700) degrees and intentionally diluted with CO2. Even if you cut out all the "player added" co2 and launch the bomb fast to avoid rupturing issues, the bombs seem to inevitably lose potency despite being hotter/more plasma than the diluted oven-temperature tanks.
>Put mix can on a heater
>Contents inside ignite and burn
>Left with SUPERHOT/SUPERPRESSURE mix (40k) that is 80% CO2, 20% Oxy
>Get pure plasma can
>Put on heater
>Plasma magically ignites (maybe some of the tiny amount of air between the pad and the heater, even though I formatted the setup to make them adjacent
>Left with SORTAHOT/SORTAPRESSURE (2k temp) mix that is 90% plasma, 10% CO2
Take 2 plasma tanks, empty one, leave the other with the default plasma contents.
Put empty tank into the plasma tank to maximize the amount of hot plasma, Put the default tank into the HOTHOTHOT mixtank.
Here's where it gets weird. The empty plasma tank into the plasma can (full pressure releave) ends up getting you a superhot tank that is 80% plasma. The 300kpa plasma tank into the superhotmix (I have to do roughly 50% pressure because full leads to rupturing) leaves me with a tank that is 90% plasma but only gets to about 2k temp (which is weird because 2k is precisely what the other can got to, while this can is like 40k+ temp).
So basically, putting a little bit of plasma into a hot tank with no plasma yields more plasma and less heat than putting an empty tank into a warm plasma can.
The "warm" tank with 90% plasma also yields huge (overcap) explosions while the hotter 80% tank yields kinda sub-cap explosions. (They were matched with identical chilled o2 tanks)
So yea atmos mixing is voodoo and I'm not closer to understanding it. The most powerful bombs I've seen (double maxcaps) actually use co2 to dilute the hot mix... making your hot/plasma tank with only a few hundred (300-700) degrees and intentionally diluted with CO2. Even if you cut out all the "player added" co2 and launch the bomb fast to avoid rupturing issues, the bombs seem to inevitably lose potency despite being hotter/more plasma than the diluted oven-temperature tanks.
-
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:36 am
- Byond Username: Roadhog1
Re: What *is* the 'bomb equation'?: A newbie question
I used to be a decent bombmakers before the new atmos system (like 2-3 years ago) and now my bombs are literally party poppers. Most won't even gib you holding it.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: What *is* the 'bomb equation'?: A newbie question
a plasma tank with the standard full pressure of 1000kpa seems to be most effective at around 1000 degrees celsius.
Mix with a full tank of room temp oxygen for almost maxcap.
mix with chilled oxygen for guaranteed maxcap.
Mix with a full tank of room temp oxygen for almost maxcap.
mix with chilled oxygen for guaranteed maxcap.
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