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>IB4 traitor ling items.What would you guys think of a traitor item similar to the one ability that Lings gets, where they can camouflage themselves from the AI.
Bottom post of the previous page:
>IB4 traitor ling items.Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
Eh, my entire traitor strategy relies on subverting the AI now. Anything else I do fails unless I kill x/steal x and wait patiently for the round to end for dat greentext.Luke Cox wrote:If you're an antag and the AI is a problem, all I can say is git gud. I cannot recall a single instance in which the AI is the reason I failed. Either subvert it or make sure it's busy.
Even if you can work around the AI, you still have to, you know, work around the AI in the first place. It just existing influences the fuck out of the experience of being a traitor.Luke Cox wrote:If you're an antag and the AI is a problem, all I can say is git gud. I cannot recall a single instance in which the AI is the reason I failed. Either subvert it or make sure it's busy.
<wb> For one, the spaghetti is killing me. It's everywhere in food code, and makes it harder to clean those up.
<Tobba> I stared into BYOND and it farted
not my *tsshk* over *tsshk*!Miauw wrote:remove AI NTSL access
also, disable roundstart AI when there are less than twenty people playing.
i like silicons and their laws, they're probably one of the most novel and fun ideas in spacemans, but sadly the omniscience of the AI causes a lot of issues.
Luke Cox wrote:I'm not against trying a no-AI week, but I think you'll find that it does fuck all to traitor effectiveness. 95% of the traitors I catch, I catch because somebody caught them in the act. The AI has a whole station to watch. Unless you're in a very public area with suit sensors on max, odds are the AI won't find out.
firecage wrote:I will honestly say this. If you guys have SUCH an issue with an AI when antag, then you guys are probably some of the worst antags ever who can't plan ahead and instead act on the moment.
Hell, this is my opinion. Buff the AI, and loosen the restrictions of security so they can properly bust heads. If you can't handle playing antag, then git gud.
But only assumes these things because he has seen them be the case on a semi-regular basis. We all have, to some extent.imblyings wrote:Oldman a lot of the stuff you say might be right but you're often assuming that the AI is some hyper-competent pro mlg AI player with a direct connection to the tgstation server.
This round that just finished had the following series of events:imblyings wrote:Oldman a lot of the stuff you say might be right but you're often assuming that the AI is some hyper-competent pro mlg AI player with a direct connection to the tgstation server.
That's a workaround to the real problem, at best, and leaves all the other antag modes high and dry. I'd prefer a more general solution like nerfing or removing AI door bolting outright.PKPenguin321 wrote:it being built into the PDA wouldnt work because
Sec Officer Mister McShittles says, "AI bolt this door so we can slap it with this guy's PDA and find out if he's a traitor or not"
Other antag modes do not suffer the problem of the AI shutting down conflict to the same degree. Cults, revolutions, etc. all have the benefit of being able to all go loud at once, which quickly overwhelms the AI and makes it less of a factor.MisterPerson wrote:That's a workaround to the real problem, at best, and leaves all the other antag modes high and dry. I'd prefer a more general solution like nerfing or removing AI door bolting outright.
MDs with their portable monitors could have passed on that information too. If anything, the fault lies with the suit sensors and them being too accurate.Oldman Robustin wrote: This round that just finished had the following series of events:
...
Shit like this happens more often than not. It's also how little itty-bitty QOL changes for AI like crew monitor button
...
Yes it doesn't always happen, many AI wouldn't even think to check suit sensors, but when it does it's completely and indefensibly awful.
There only ever was one x-ray camera: in the dorms. It was removed ages ago.leibniz wrote:I have one minor idea, we could remove x-ray cameras.
I like that. It would still expose the ones too lazy to disable cameras.leibniz wrote: Also, the AI tracking list should include only mobs that are wearing their ID. So no more "find the xeno hive instantly" or monkeys, which makes sense considering the ventcrawling change (it's effectively a nerf)
I'd be fine with nerfs like these, if it keeps the AI in the game. However, I still do not agree that the AI is the problem here. Gutting the AI feels like performing a brain transplant to fix somebody with a broken arm.leibniz wrote: And no HUD button for suit sensors. Back then, if an antag caused the consols to lose power or blow up, the AI couldn't look at sensors, but now there is no way to do this.
Emagged cyborgs still show up in the status tab list - just not on the robotics console. AIs do not get any notification whatsoever when borgs are emagged or new, unlinked cyborgs are connected to the silicon network.leibniz wrote: And no borg list on the status tab so antags can emag borgs without the AI noticing in 3 seconds.
Yeah, I guess this is not an issue most of the time.Actionb wrote:There only ever was one x-ray camera: in the dorms. It was removed ages ago.leibniz wrote:I have one minor idea, we could remove x-ray cameras.
Over the last year, I ran into maybe two or three individuals that bothered to install cameras in maint. Not a single x-ray though.
Usually this is done merely as a project for the sake of doing something and not to empower the AI.
I see, I assumed that the status tab only lists slaved borgs.Actionb wrote:Emagged cyborgs still show up in the status tab list - just not on the robotics console. AIs do not get any notification whatsoever when borgs are emagged or new, unlinked cyborgs are connected to the silicon network.leibniz wrote: And no borg list on the status tab so antags can emag borgs without the AI noticing in 3 seconds.
<wb> For one, the spaghetti is killing me. It's everywhere in food code, and makes it harder to clean those up.
<Tobba> I stared into BYOND and it farted
Any observant player using the sensors could ruin an antag, it's not exclusive to the AI. The auto-refresh simplified matters, but you could emulate that by just repeatedly clicking the console with the old sensors list.Miauw wrote:i SAID that the new crew monitor would be too powerful, but it would obviously change nothing right
How come it suddenly is a problem? It's been like this for ages. I've written over and over again how you can defeat an AI. A combination of QoL features can't possibly explain how, supposedly, traitors suddenly get owned in droves by a bolted airlock.Miauw wrote: also how is an omniscient ai that can be anywhere on the station within 3 seconds (i tried to nerf it but WHAT IF AI IS NOT INSTANT DEATH FOR ALL ANTAGS ANYOMRE) not the problem.
An AI sees way less than you think it does. The AI can only be in one place at a time.The argument isn't that traitors cannot do anything due to AI, but rather on AVERAGE the AVERAGE traitor is rendered impotent/uninteresting/docile by the effects of the synthetic god we've created.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
Hi there friend, it seems you're new here. Why don't you sit down and play a few rounds before making those kinds of comments.Cik wrote:most of those things are nominally against asimov anyway
>giving some asshole hacking some door you don't care about to security so they can maybe find a camera bug in his pocket and kill him over it
yeahhhhhhhh no
Abductors have this, and generally have little fear of the AI, as lockdowns do nothing to stop teleporters, the agent can silence the radio, so he would have to be unlucky, with the AI already watching him pull out his alien baton. Even then, they can just teleport out and swap disguises. Heck, if the AI DID become a problem, they can just abduct the AI!TheWiznard wrote:Why can't we have one of those radio jammer things from goon? Like the same size as a charm pojecter you keep in your pocket and disables all radio/pda devices in a 5-6 tile radius?
hello friend, yes i do play here,Oldman Robustin wrote:Hi there friend, it seems you're new here. Why don't you sit down and play a few rounds before making those kinds of comments.Cik wrote:most of those things are nominally against asimov anyway
>giving some asshole hacking some door you don't care about to security so they can maybe find a camera bug in his pocket and kill him over it
yeahhhhhhhh no
Seriously though, do you play here?
Whether you like it or not every AI here will see syndicate gear on a person, know that syndicate are harmful, and do the whole bolt & yell routine.
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
EngamerAzari's real number one fangirl <3Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.
if you want to make it easier for traitors to work violently there are two easy solutions reallyWyzack wrote:But i think a big part of the issue is that we do not want benign quiet get-my-objective-and-do-nothing traitors, that shit is fucking boring.
this was really never a good idea. it will just encourage greytide and related shenanigans; even when you can (mostly) implicitly trust sec not to kill you it's here now. imagine in the future when any secling/sectator can easily grab people off the street and just kill them in maint. once you bring that back it will be bedlam every round. sec is completely helpless against an internal threat because everything they do relies implicitly on trust. furthermore every nonsec will be kill first ask questions never as any arrest could be a murder in progress.Kor wrote:Rather than removing one of the most unique roles in the game I'd rather try a week or two of traitorsec again.
I understand security needs to trust each other and work as a team in modes like nuke, rev, gang, etc, but traitor should be all about backstabbing and paranoia, not about the validhunting team vs the woefully underequipped spies.
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