The pull request wrote: I've been holding off on making this pull request for quite a while now. I played a lot of sec after autorifles were introduced, and I've had opportunity to observe a lot of rounds and play in even more, and I think autorifles should go.
Autorifles completely trivialize combat for the wielder. If Security has them, they can easily eliminate almost any threat by using a riot shield and autorifle, and there's no shortage of ammunition for them to use. If an antagonist has them, Security fall like dominoes because no matter how many lasers they use, the autorifles are still ridiculously powerful and trump them anyway.
Autorifles are still available in the code. They are not, however, found on the map at roundstart. Currently, the change only affects Box, as I don't know if the other maps have been changed to have the autorifles yet.
Screenshot of the new armory:
Note that the mechanical toolbox is actually a drone toolbox - this is so that Security gets all the tools. Also, there is an anchored ammunition locker full of beanbag shells to the right of the rack with implants.
Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
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Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/12202
Last edited by Xhuis on Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
You do know I'm removing the excess magazines in my map PR right?
I mean, technically at that point the Auto Rifles are very on par with Lasers for the most part, in fact without the excess magazines the Lasers will have the ammo advantage.
Also I would ask you elaborate on how Auto rifles trivialize security in fighting people, a riot shield and a gun, laser or rifle, will do well.
Edit: How exactly? They deal the same damage as Lasers, they have the same rate of fire as Lasers. The main difference is that Rifles have 20 rounds versus the Lasers 12, but the Laser can be recharged infinently.
I mean, technically at that point the Auto Rifles are very on par with Lasers for the most part, in fact without the excess magazines the Lasers will have the ammo advantage.
Also I would ask you elaborate on how Auto rifles trivialize security in fighting people, a riot shield and a gun, laser or rifle, will do well.
Edit: How exactly? They deal the same damage as Lasers, they have the same rate of fire as Lasers. The main difference is that Rifles have 20 rounds versus the Lasers 12, but the Laser can be recharged infinently.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Right now the rifles have an effective capacity of 60 each because of the spare magazines (pretending we're only taking from a single rack). 60 is roughly the number of shots you'd get from every single energy weapon in the armory.
And you added 5 such rifles each with as much firepower as the entire armory had previously. You can just shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot.
I know you're removing spare magazines now but I'm not sure what role they'd be filling without spare ammo. What do they bring to the table other than their mass amounts of ammo? What niche are they supposed to fill?
If I was gonna do my own version of the map change it'd probably be with less rifles, some spare magazines, and have them only fit on back like the ion. True heavy weapons instead of competing in the same role as a laser gun.
And you added 5 such rifles each with as much firepower as the entire armory had previously. You can just shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot.
I know you're removing spare magazines now but I'm not sure what role they'd be filling without spare ammo. What do they bring to the table other than their mass amounts of ammo? What niche are they supposed to fill?
If I was gonna do my own version of the map change it'd probably be with less rifles, some spare magazines, and have them only fit on back like the ion. True heavy weapons instead of competing in the same role as a laser gun.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Again.
The Rifles, if supported by a competent Warden and HoS, can hold more ammo in the field but also do somewhat well in crowd control and in fighting certain antags, mainly Ops and Cult.
This incentivises head's of sec to go to cargo and order more ammo, as well as other supplies.
Team work is OP.
The Rifles, if supported by a competent Warden and HoS, can hold more ammo in the field but also do somewhat well in crowd control and in fighting certain antags, mainly Ops and Cult.
This incentivises head's of sec to go to cargo and order more ammo, as well as other supplies.
Team work is OP.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Can't you still print out boxes of ammo at cargo anyway, or magazines from science? If you want to limit good guns to being behind science, we literally already had that in the form of the SABR
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
By the same logic you could say "no rifles in armoury, and incentivised going to cargo and order the guns in the first place".
Even without all the extra spare mags (which makes them fucking dumb by the way), you can just empty the mags out of all the guns, and you're back to BULLET FARMER ATATATATA.
Edit: And the sabr STILL has 42 rounds per mag, jesus fuck maintainers why is that not fixed? It never should have changed from 20.
Also you made have incindiary mags instead of incendiary mags.
Even without all the extra spare mags (which makes them fucking dumb by the way), you can just empty the mags out of all the guns, and you're back to BULLET FARMER ATATATATA.
Edit: And the sabr STILL has 42 rounds per mag, jesus fuck maintainers why is that not fixed? It never should have changed from 20.
Also you made have incindiary mags instead of incendiary mags.
Last edited by lumipharon on Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
What's the difference between taking three Laser guns versus taking One Rifle and several extra mags from the other guns?
Answer is not a much.
Answer is not a much.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
3 laser rifles are 3 normal sized items that give you 36 shotsSteelpoint wrote:What's the difference between taking three Laser guns versus taking One Rifle and several extra mags from the other guns?
Answer is not a much.
1 autorifle and 6 mags are- I believe the same size as 3 laser rifles backpack wise- and gives you 140 shots
Hint: 104 shots is kind of a lot
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Let's assume, for the sake of argument and if my PR is merged, that you have three rifles and three lasers in the armoury.
What difference is there if you take the ammo versus the lasers. The lasers can be pulled out and fired instantly, the mags have to be inserted.
Its not a big difference.
What difference is there if you take the ammo versus the lasers. The lasers can be pulled out and fired instantly, the mags have to be inserted.
Its not a big difference.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Laser rifles have 10 shots each on /tg/ , I thoughtShaps wrote:3 laser rifles are 3 normal sized items that give you 36 shotsSteelpoint wrote:What's the difference between taking three Laser guns versus taking One Rifle and several extra mags from the other guns?
Answer is not a much.
1 autorifle and 6 mags are- I believe the same size as 3 laser rifles backpack wise- and gives you 140 shots
Hint: 104 shots is kind of a lot
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
3 laserguns is 36 shots. 1 rifle and 1 magazine is already more than that and you can fit far more spare magazines on you then you can spare guns.Steelpoint wrote:What's the difference between taking three Laser guns versus taking One Rifle and several extra mags from the other guns?
Answer is not a much.
And its not really rifle vs the laserguns since you can just pile both into your bag. Your original PR increased the number of shots in the armory from 60 to 340 (with the wardens gun+ammo). That's fucking huge.
Oh come onmags have to be inserted.
Last edited by onleavedontatme on Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Also the Head of Security spawns with his own Energy Gun and a Taser, take that into account.
Or does the HoS Gun not count? Same as the Warden Gun.
Or does the HoS Gun not count? Same as the Warden Gun.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
so the difference is 80/360 instead of 60/340Steelpoint wrote:Also the Head of Security spawns with his own Energy Gun and a Taser, take that into account.
Or does the HoS Gun not count? Same as the Warden Gun.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
No the difference would be...
86 Laser rounds versus 80 Bullet rounds.
86 Laser rounds versus 80 Bullet rounds.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
So then with 3 lasers and 3 autorifles with no extra mags you're basically left with 3 laser rifles which are already proven to work fine and can be recharged and 3 autorifles that become useless paperweights when emptied, unless you go to cargo or science and stock up on 9mm ammo boxes or magazines, in which case we're right back to people running around with 300 extra rounds on them
How is this an improvement to just having 3 eguns and 3 laser rifles?
How is this an improvement to just having 3 eguns and 3 laser rifles?
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Jesus are we swinging back and fourth between the guns being OP and the guns being useless.
I've explained a thousand times the advantages and disadvantages of the guns, I really don't want to explain them a thousand times more.
I've explained a thousand times the advantages and disadvantages of the guns, I really don't want to explain them a thousand times more.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Uwot?Steelpoint wrote:Let's assume, for the sake of argument and if my PR is merged, that you have three rifles and three lasers in the armoury.
What difference is there if you take the ammo versus the lasers. The lasers can be pulled out and fired instantly, the mags have to be inserted.
Its not a big difference.
Laser: Shoot 12 times, put in mag and get new one out, shoot 12 more times
Autorifle: Shoot 20 times, click gun with new mag, shoot 20 more times
3 lasers + 3 eguns = 66(?) shots, while almost entirely filling your bag, and a single emp will cuck all of them.
1 Autorifle + 2 spare mags (that is assuming ALL spare mags are removed from the armoury, purely looting the mags in the guns) = 60 shots, and only take up like 2 guns with of space.
You can then also get ammo boxes to instantly refill mags, and fill up the rest of the space with whatever other guns you care to fit.
They're not good for round start shit. Leave them as cargo only.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
3 Laser Guns = 34 lasers
3 Energy Guns = 30 lasers
1 HoS Gun = 10 lasers
1 HoS Egun = 12 lasers
Versus
3 Auto Rifles = 60 bullets
1 Warden Rifle = 20 bullets
So really its 86 to 80.
3 Energy Guns = 30 lasers
1 HoS Gun = 10 lasers
1 HoS Egun = 12 lasers
Versus
3 Auto Rifles = 60 bullets
1 Warden Rifle = 20 bullets
So really its 86 to 80.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Also, assuming my PR is merged, I'm going to make the bullets fire a non-9mm rounds so you can't fill er up at cargo easily.
i can even lower the mag to 15 rounds.
i can even lower the mag to 15 rounds.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
They're OP in their current implementation and everyone is telling you that roundstart assault rifles with infinitely printable ammo won't work, so you're suggesting nerfing them into the ground (AKA no mags in the armory making them paperweights without ammo from cargo or science after the first mag) to the point where people would just prefer to use lasers over them. The only thing is, instead of having paperweight rifles alongside the lasers, why wouldn't we just have lasers?
What is even the point of making it a ballistic weapon if you're going to snowflake away the method that every single other ballistic weapon uses to get ammo?
What is even the point of making it a ballistic weapon if you're going to snowflake away the method that every single other ballistic weapon uses to get ammo?
Last edited by Shaps-cloud on Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Well they're more or less identical to laserguns other than the ammo availability, and when you promise to take away all their ammo then yeah nothing sets them apart and they'd be useless.Steelpoint wrote:Jesus are we swinging back and fourth between the guns being OP and the guns being useless.
I've explained a thousand times the advantages and disadvantages of the guns, I really don't want to explain them a thousand times more.
Its not like they're a new game mechanic or new code or anything they're just more guns that function like every other generic gun give or take damage/ammo values.
They're either gonna be straight better or redundant, and either way massively increase the firepower of the armory overall.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Its 80+86, not vs. You dont choose roundstart which set of stuff you're getting.Steelpoint wrote:
So really its 86 to 80.
That being said we set the number of guns in the armory when we had populations of 20-30 and full on stun combat so maybe having extra isnt the end of the world.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
The guns primary purpose is to offer sec a good alternative wepaon in dealing with certain antags, from cult to op.
I'm going to tone down my posts on this matter, I"m going to get a brain haemorrhage.
I'm going to tone down my posts on this matter, I"m going to get a brain haemorrhage.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Right now, the guns are OP for antags who loot the armory and nobody else, and I think removing the magazines from the armory is all that needs to be done
The rifles aren't supposed to be more, or less powerful than the laser guns, they are for dealing with (I don't even know why I feel this is worth mentioning) antags who are invulnerable to the laser guns, IE, nuke ops with shields and wizards / cult / lings with EMP, and without them, you are nerfing sec against these antags, who still have a massive advantage against security (okay perhaps not so much for lings)
Just remove the magazines from the armory and leave the damn things alone
The rifles aren't supposed to be more, or less powerful than the laser guns, they are for dealing with (I don't even know why I feel this is worth mentioning) antags who are invulnerable to the laser guns, IE, nuke ops with shields and wizards / cult / lings with EMP, and without them, you are nerfing sec against these antags, who still have a massive advantage against security (okay perhaps not so much for lings)
Just remove the magazines from the armory and leave the damn things alone
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
This PR here does very that, as well as removing the excess auto gun to bring it down to 3 guns in the armoury: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/12122
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
this is the second worst armory design so far no lockers and no shutters which is good but you cant really see the left half of the armory
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
If Riot Shield + Rifle is so bad I could introduce the heavy_weapon var to the rifles, making them two handed instead of one handed.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
I just feel these rifles simply add nothing to the game.
Weapons like dual e-sword and energy shields are balanced around the fact that they reflect most security weapons.
It is a break in theme and forces armory changes, of which all I have seen seem worse than the old layout.
Weapons like dual e-sword and energy shields are balanced around the fact that they reflect most security weapons.
It is a break in theme and forces armory changes, of which all I have seen seem worse than the old layout.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
My rebalance PR was merged, I hope this goes a long way into working out the rifles.
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/12122
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/12122
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Yolomerge is now an ingrained part of tg culture
brave new world people
brave new world people
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
No I discussed the changes on Coderbus IRC.
The PR primarily removes the excess auto rifle mags in the armoury, and removes one of the guns to bring it down to three rifles.
The PR primarily removes the excess auto rifle mags in the armoury, and removes one of the guns to bring it down to three rifles.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
I liked it because it looked better than the current armory.Steelpoint wrote:No I discussed the changes on Coderbus IRC.
The PR primarily removes the excess auto rifle mags in the armoury, and removes one of the guns to bring it down to three rifles.
I said age of the #yolomerge because miauw has joined raz in merging generally unpopular PRs (even if I personally liked this one)
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Dumb question, but can the sec autorifles be accessed at any alert level? Or just Red Alert.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
It feels like people just want them gone for the sake of not liking them. They are horribly OP up until a balance change is made at which point "OH WOW LOL WORTHLESS GUNS SO SHIT REMOVE"
Seriously damn
Seriously damn
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
certified good poster
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
EngamerAzari's real number one fangirl <3Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.
certified good poster
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Any level, and the moment people sense when shits going down it's normally the first thing they grabHelios wrote:Dumb question, but can the sec autorifles be accessed at any alert level? Or just Red Alert.
To be robust is not about combat prowess, it is the state of readiness for the situation at hand.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Would there be any change in their usage if it required Red Alert to access them?srifenbyxp wrote:Any level, and the moment people sense when shits going down it's normally the first thing they grabHelios wrote:Dumb question, but can the sec autorifles be accessed at any alert level? Or just Red Alert.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Did no one at all bring up the fact that guns can't fire through windows and that makes a huge difference on how combat plays out on this window filled station? I feel that that should factor into the balance discussion a bit.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
I mean...Wyzack wrote:It feels like people just want them gone for the sake of not liking them. They are horribly OP up until a balance change is made at which point "OH WOW LOL WORTHLESS GUNS SO SHIT REMOVE"
Seriously damn
Is the fact that people just straight up don't like them not a valid argument against them?
Maybe this massive resistance to them, despite all the stat changes that they've gone through, all the placement changes they've gone through, all the buffs and nerfs and changes they've had might mean there is something people don't like about them that goes further than just how effective they are.
In my humble, babby player opinion, I believe it has to do with the way Autorifles look, the way they look, the sounds they make, their name, their flavor text, ect.
Believe it or not, minor flavor things do effect the way people see and think about things even in the low-rp-ness of /tg/.
Something about arming security with these SUPER TACTICOOL BLACK BALLISTIC MACHINE GUNS makes them look more like a malevolent wannabe-paramilitary organization than a harsh-but-ultimatly-on-your-side scifi force of the public trust.
If TGstation's culture shares anything with actual /tg/ and the rest of 4chan, it's that we retain the anti-authoritarian, pro individual freedom culture that defines your average anon. The majority of tgstation's players are not sec, and a security officer with an autorifle gives off a far more authoritarian vibe than an officer with a laser gun in a very gut-feeling way. Combine this with Steelpoint's well known gunfetish, and no matter what stats they are given most people will see autorifles as Steelpoint trying to make playing HoS fulfill his own personal military power-fantasies, even if that wasn't his intention whatsoever.
Also, I think the bad handling of the original PRs, and whole "has been 'in testing' for weeks" thing might have left a bad taste in most player's mouths.
Roze Armitage/Sid Spades/GHEDE.loa
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Why couldn't it be a laser rifle instead?
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
BECAUSE RULE OF COOL
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
I G N O R E
S T E E L P O I N T
K I L L
T H E
C O D E B A B Y
S T E E L P O I N T
K I L L
T H E
C O D E B A B Y
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
BLOOD BLOOD BLOODPKPenguin321 wrote:I G N O R E
S T E E L P O I N T
K I L L
T H E
C O D E B A B Y
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
I still think some people are overestimating the power of the rifles.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Because steel refuses to accept that there is any alternative to his snowflake rifles.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Well the alternative is to make Energy Swords/Shields not deflect projectiles, but also only have a 50% chance (overall) to block any projectile, energy or ballisitc. In addition Jugg's would lose their deflection but gain a health boost. As well as several other minor changes.
Funny thing is when I proposed that I was told it was shit.
Funny thing is when I proposed that I was told it was shit.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
Double post LMAO are you fucking serious.
Rifles trivialize combat? Have you even fucking played the game since they were introduced? Sec still get rolled with the Auto Rifles.
Rifles trivialize combat? Have you even fucking played the game since they were introduced? Sec still get rolled with the Auto Rifles.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
If the rifles are really overpowered (which imo they are not) then simply introducing features like making them two handed (heavy_weapons var) or reducing their mag size to fifteen rounds would be a better way forward instead of gutting the rifles.
Not to mention my merged PR removed the excess magazines and got rid of one of the guns.
Not to mention my merged PR removed the excess magazines and got rid of one of the guns.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
They are items explicitly designed to let antags counter energy weapons that sec have. Nerfing them into uselessness when everyone has been fine with them for years is dumb. Juggernaut is debatable - honestly it's not hard to dodge reflected lasers since you KNOW it's going to happen, but they at the very least need a block chance.
The armoury already has ballistic weapons. Shotguns. There are already various shell types that can be used with them.
If you truly think sec needs to be able to counter the counter, then as I have already suggested, add lethal or whatever other extra shotgun ammo to the armoury, making a very niche item more useful.
This doesn't effect balance nearly as much because it's impractical (but not unviable with bluespace belt sack) to carry large amounts of shotgun ammo around. Also slow reloading, and the fact that you can only store it on your exosuit slot, unless you saw it down.
So a riot shotgun loaded with lethals/incendiary/etc is plenty to take down a guy with dual sword/shield (even with op armour), but not enough to murderbone.
Bam. A counter, not a DOUBLE THE LETHALITY OF THE ARMOURY.
The armoury already has ballistic weapons. Shotguns. There are already various shell types that can be used with them.
If you truly think sec needs to be able to counter the counter, then as I have already suggested, add lethal or whatever other extra shotgun ammo to the armoury, making a very niche item more useful.
This doesn't effect balance nearly as much because it's impractical (but not unviable with bluespace belt sack) to carry large amounts of shotgun ammo around. Also slow reloading, and the fact that you can only store it on your exosuit slot, unless you saw it down.
So a riot shotgun loaded with lethals/incendiary/etc is plenty to take down a guy with dual sword/shield (even with op armour), but not enough to murderbone.
Bam. A counter, not a DOUBLE THE LETHALITY OF THE ARMOURY.
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Re: Armory re-mapping and autorifle removal
While correlation does not imply causation, I think looking to the more recent statistics for the game would help see what, if any, impact the rifles have had over the course of the past few weeks.
For example, did you know now Nuke Ops have a 52% win rate? Furthermore Nuke Ops have a identical 50% win rate on low and high pop! Whatever has been done to do that, the rifles or other features, is really good considering the biggest problem with Ops was the horrible win rates, at low pop Ops won at a 80%-100% rate but on high pop Ops won at a 20% rate. To go to a pure 50% win rate on virtually all pop levels is fantastic.
Cult has a 34% win rate overall, while I would love to discuss it the fact that cult saw a major overhaul precludes any ability to confidently talk about it.
Traitors, Changelings and Gang are really hard to talk about. I can see Traitors have a 26% win rate, as in doing all their objectives. However that's 300+ people out of 1100 people, with Traitor being the most played antag. Ling and Gang don't translate well to stats.
Blob has a 56% win rate, and overall goes from 80% to 48% ish win rate as the pop gets higher.
Rev has a 84% win rate, nuff said.
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While again, correlation does not imply causation. But I can say that the rifles have not made the game lopsided for Sec.
For example, did you know now Nuke Ops have a 52% win rate? Furthermore Nuke Ops have a identical 50% win rate on low and high pop! Whatever has been done to do that, the rifles or other features, is really good considering the biggest problem with Ops was the horrible win rates, at low pop Ops won at a 80%-100% rate but on high pop Ops won at a 20% rate. To go to a pure 50% win rate on virtually all pop levels is fantastic.
Cult has a 34% win rate overall, while I would love to discuss it the fact that cult saw a major overhaul precludes any ability to confidently talk about it.
Traitors, Changelings and Gang are really hard to talk about. I can see Traitors have a 26% win rate, as in doing all their objectives. However that's 300+ people out of 1100 people, with Traitor being the most played antag. Ling and Gang don't translate well to stats.
Blob has a 56% win rate, and overall goes from 80% to 48% ish win rate as the pop gets higher.
Rev has a 84% win rate, nuff said.
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While again, correlation does not imply causation. But I can say that the rifles have not made the game lopsided for Sec.
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