Nerf patches
- J_Madison
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Nerf patches
Consider the following:
Patches bypass armour.
A 50u patch practically heals ALL wounds in that region, and regions nearby.
IIRC a 50u patch will almost entirely someone whom is almost about to go into crit.
There is only one, minor and rarely used mechanic that makes the pill superior in one way, and one way possible - dropping it into a drink.
Solution:
Nerf patches to 25u or 35u maximum.
Reasoning:
Pills are useful again as they're capable of holding more chemicals.
Greyshit, valid antag, or whomever you're trying to kill won't instantly heal 90% of their health with a single patch.
Patches bypass armour.
A 50u patch practically heals ALL wounds in that region, and regions nearby.
IIRC a 50u patch will almost entirely someone whom is almost about to go into crit.
There is only one, minor and rarely used mechanic that makes the pill superior in one way, and one way possible - dropping it into a drink.
Solution:
Nerf patches to 25u or 35u maximum.
Reasoning:
Pills are useful again as they're capable of holding more chemicals.
Greyshit, valid antag, or whomever you're trying to kill won't instantly heal 90% of their health with a single patch.
- TechnoAlchemist
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Re: Nerf patches
Or we could add a delay to using them on yourself (much like bruise packs and ointment) so you can't slap patches on during combat for full health.
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- TGMC Administrator
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Re: Nerf patches
Patches are head and shoulders above both bruise packs and trek chems in terms of fast and easy healing - despite goof repeatedly going on about how dumb being able to load up on DD etc to quickly heal, it ignores the fact that goofchem patches do the exact same thing only far far better.
A 50u patc of 25/25 silver sulf and styptic will heal all your brute and burn damage (unless you have a serious shit load, which usually means you're in crit.
On top of this, half (give or take) is done INSTANTLY, to every part of your body, unike bruisepacks.
The other half is done over time, which is exactly the same thing as people loading up on DD/tricord or whatever, since there is no addiction or OD threshold.
Nerfing patch max amount honestly isn't goin to help - in 95% of cases, a 50u healing patch is way more then overkill, even 25u patches are more then you need for all but the most seriously injured people.
A 50u patc of 25/25 silver sulf and styptic will heal all your brute and burn damage (unless you have a serious shit load, which usually means you're in crit.
On top of this, half (give or take) is done INSTANTLY, to every part of your body, unike bruisepacks.
The other half is done over time, which is exactly the same thing as people loading up on DD/tricord or whatever, since there is no addiction or OD threshold.
Nerfing patch max amount honestly isn't goin to help - in 95% of cases, a 50u healing patch is way more then overkill, even 25u patches are more then you need for all but the most seriously injured people.
- J_Madison
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Re: Nerf patches
Strange. According to my tests, it made a big difference, I can't confirm or deny changes to those two touch based medicines, so a potential nerf would be required too.lumipharon wrote:Patches are head and shoulders above both bruise packs and trek chems in terms of fast and easy healing - despite goof repeatedly going on about how dumb being able to load up on DD etc to quickly heal, it ignores the fact that goofchem patches do the exact same thing only far far better.
A 50u patc of 25/25 silver sulf and styptic will heal all your brute and burn damage (unless you have a serious shit load, which usually means you're in crit.
On top of this, half (give or take) is done INSTANTLY, to every part of your body, unike bruisepacks.
The other half is done over time, which is exactly the same thing as people loading up on DD/tricord or whatever, since there is no addiction or OD threshold.
Nerfing patch max amount honestly isn't goin to help - in 95% of cases, a 50u healing patch is way more then overkill, even 25u patches are more then you need for all but the most seriously injured people.
People will get quite upset at this change, I garuantee it.TechnoAlchemist wrote:Or we could add a delay to using them on yourself (much like bruise packs and ointment) so you can't slap patches on during combat for full health.
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Re: Nerf patches
I think patches are just pills that go through hardsuits. If we're trying to differentiate them, then...
* Add a short (i.e. shorter than current bruise packs/ointment/gauze) delay to patches, and remove the delay from bruise packs, ointment and gauze
* Remove patches' ability to work through hard clothing
Opinions?
* Add a short (i.e. shorter than current bruise packs/ointment/gauze) delay to patches, and remove the delay from bruise packs, ointment and gauze
* Remove patches' ability to work through hard clothing
Opinions?
- J_Madison
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Re: Nerf patches
1. People - especially miners - will not like that.TheNightingale wrote:I think patches are just pills that go through hardsuits. If we're trying to differentiate them, then...
* Add a short (i.e. shorter than current bruise packs/ointment/gauze) delay to patches, and remove the delay from bruise packs, ointment and gauze
* Remove patches' ability to work through hard clothing
Opinions?
2. Ditto. Miners, engineers, firefighters cannot risk removing protective equipment.
- iamgoofball
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Re: Nerf patches
i have changed my ways about caring about fast heals being too fast and instead ask "why do we need to nerf it", and "why does medbay need to be slow and nerfed"
if anything we should just buff pills to hold 75u or something, and remove the application delays on bruise/ointment/gauze
if anything we should just buff pills to hold 75u or something, and remove the application delays on bruise/ointment/gauze
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Re: Nerf patches
you will take like 1 burn damage if you pop off the helmet for a moment to put on a patch.J_Madison wrote:1. People - especially miners - will not like that.TheNightingale wrote:I think patches are just pills that go through hardsuits. If we're trying to differentiate them, then...
* Add a short (i.e. shorter than current bruise packs/ointment/gauze) delay to patches, and remove the delay from bruise packs, ointment and gauze
* Remove patches' ability to work through hard clothing
Opinions?
2. Ditto. Miners, engineers, firefighters cannot risk removing protective equipment.
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Re: Nerf patches
Why buff two things when one nerf will do the same?iamgoofball wrote:i have changed my ways about caring about fast heals being too fast and instead ask "why do we need to nerf it", and "why does medbay need to be slow and nerfed"
if anything we should just buff pills to hold 75u or something, and remove the application delays on bruise/ointment/gauze
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- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: Nerf patches
Shh, he just withdrew support for fast med revert goonchem before he changes his mind!callanrockslol wrote:Why buff two things when one nerf will do the same?iamgoofball wrote:i have changed my ways about caring about fast heals being too fast and instead ask "why do we need to nerf it", and "why does medbay need to be slow and nerfed"
if anything we should just buff pills to hold 75u or something, and remove the application delays on bruise/ointment/gauze
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Re: Nerf patches
No, he went from "trek chem is dumb because you can heal fast and load up on meds", and after people pointed out that goof chem does the same thing only even worse has gone to "healing slow is dumb".
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Re: Nerf patches
"Now that it's directly my fault that heals are too fast, I have decided it's not a problem."iamgoofball wrote:i have changed my ways about caring about fast heals being too fast and instead ask "why do we need to nerf it", and "why does medbay need to be slow and nerfed"
Remove the AI.
- Saegrimr
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Re: Nerf patches
In it for the long con.
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- J_Madison
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Re: Nerf patches
>pills holding 75uiamgoofball wrote:i have changed my ways about caring about fast heals being too fast and instead ask "why do we need to nerf it", and "why does medbay need to be slow and nerfed"
if anything we should just buff pills to hold 75u or something, and remove the application delays on bruise/ointment/gauze
This wouldn't be that bad, but the problem is the actual lack of people who're capable of making anything that needs more than 40u.
I estimate a minor 10% of the server population can make a pill that uses all 50u, even less with those that can make a pill using more than 50u.
As for healing too quickly or healing too slowly, using two burn patches (for one region) in the middle of a fight is not easy.
The before and after results are quite impressive.
HOP Tator couldn't fight off security with just Captains laser, armour and a burn kit. It wasn't possible. He has to stop firing and take his time to heal twice rather than once.
That's the difference goof. Halving it did quite a number. Nerfing it is good. You cannot have a meta-game where having 5 burn patches and armour can survive the entire armoury's laser weapons. That's ridiculous.
- CPTANT
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Re: Nerf patches
I have no idea what is wrong with using bicardine and kelotone anyway if they just have OD tresholds.
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- Saegrimr
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Re: Nerf patches
Because goof wont give up his baby despite it being nothing but trouble since the beginning, and going against one of the things he originally championed it for.CPTANT wrote:I have no idea what is wrong with using bicardine and kelotone anyway if they just have OD tresholds.
Look at the self surgery PR for another example :^)
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- Super Aggro Crag
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Re: Nerf patches
it would mean goof was wrong to change something, and he'd throw a huge shitfit because his ego can't take that and try to turn it into a CODERS VS PLAYERS argument, stir the coderbus into a cauldron of shit, everyone would start flinging shit everywhere, it'd be a real shitticane, and shit wouldn't get done because every shitter would be too busy shitting shit.CPTANT wrote:I have no idea what is wrong with using bicardine and kelotone anyway if they just have OD tresholds.
- TechnoAlchemist
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Re: Nerf patches
Is it time for another "revert goofchem but keep pyrotechnics and OD" thread?
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Re: Nerf patches
trek chems (or some of them atleast) are back in the game via sleepers (and I think medbots, dunno).
It would be a simple case of turning off some goof healing chems, giving the trek chems recipies again, and raising their OD thresholds a bit (they're at like, 10 or 15 atm I think).
Also there is/was a pr up to make DD heal again, which hilariously enough goof was shitting up about how being able to load up on healing chems to heal fast is OP.
It would be a simple case of turning off some goof healing chems, giving the trek chems recipies again, and raising their OD thresholds a bit (they're at like, 10 or 15 atm I think).
Also there is/was a pr up to make DD heal again, which hilariously enough goof was shitting up about how being able to load up on healing chems to heal fast is OP.
- John_Oxford
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Re: Nerf patches
Wouldn't it just make more sense to buff pills to holding 100 and 200 units? And increasing the delay on use of said pills.
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Re: Nerf patches
But pills are shit currently (for healing) there is nothing useful you can put in them.
- J_Madison
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Re: Nerf patches
No, it wouldn't. And the ChemMaster doesn't support anything past 100u.John_Oxford wrote:Wouldn't it just make more sense to buff pills to holding 100 and 200 units? And increasing the delay on use of said pills.
Considering Goofchem (which honestly, isn't that bad) compared to Zaerchem, you're right.lumipharon wrote:But pills are shit currently (for healing) there is nothing useful you can put in them.
But it would be incredibly single minded to dismiss pills just because they incredibly overpowered SS and SP touch heal patches, and the lack of creativity of most chemists.
- MisterPerson
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Re: Nerf patches
No, and anyone who persists is getting their post deleted.TechnoAlchemist wrote:Is it time for another "revert goofchem but keep pyrotechnics and OD" thread?
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- Wyzack
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Re: Nerf patches
Hail the brave forummods, protecting us from our own opinions
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- J_Madison
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Re: Nerf patches
Stay on topic, or make a thread for Goofchem.
Complain to coderbus if you want a new chemical system.
Question of the century:
Why would anyone make a pill over a patch, except to drop into drinks?
Nobody has given an answer that without reasonable doubt answers this question.
Complain to coderbus if you want a new chemical system.
Question of the century:
Why would anyone make a pill over a patch, except to drop into drinks?
Nobody has given an answer that without reasonable doubt answers this question.
- Wyzack
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Re: Nerf patches
Here is hoping the whole "dropping pills into drinks" thing will actally become a viable murderstrategy once reagent obfuscation is in
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- Super Aggro Crag
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Re: Nerf patches
does charcoal do anything as a patch? i usually make it as a pill.J_Madison wrote:Stay on topic, or make a thread for Goofchem.
Complain to coderbus if you want a new chemical system.
Question of the century:
Why would anyone make a pill over a patch, except to drop into drinks?
Nobody has given an answer that without reasonable doubt answers this question.
- CPTANT
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Re: Nerf patches
I fail to see why a differentiation in ingestion based and touch based reagents is interesting in the first place.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Nerf patches
I can agree with this. The bruise pack/ointment delay is ridiculously obnoxious in the first place, and the sole getaround that makes using them worthwhile (spamming your sprite 6 times then quickly switching targets while each are applied).TheNightingale wrote:* Add a short (i.e. shorter than current bruise packs/ointment/gauze) delay to patches, and remove the delay from bruise packs, ointment and gauze
Opinions?
Patches are honestly fine generally speaking though. Not everything has to go through the 'it's reasonably robust! Nerf it!' process that it seems a few people push for. I haven't seen anyone until now complain about patches in this sense anyway.
- J_Madison
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Re: Nerf patches
Literally works the exact same way, except bypasses masks and protective suits.Super Aggro Crag wrote:does charcoal do anything as a patch? i usually make it as a pill.J_Madison wrote:Stay on topic, or make a thread for Goofchem.
Complain to coderbus if you want a new chemical system.
Question of the century:
Why would anyone make a pill over a patch, except to drop into drinks?
Nobody has given an answer that without reasonable doubt answers this question.
As I said, unless you want to slip drugs into people's drinks (god damn who actually does this), there is effectively absolutely NO REASON to use pills, ever.
You can't eat SS, SP or SF. They'll cause toxin damage and display a message.CPTANT wrote:I fail to see why a differentiation in ingestion based and touch based reagents is interesting in the first place.
By the time people complain, it's already too late and absolutely nobody will do anything about it. I.e. Tasers.Amelius wrote:I can agree with this. The bruise pack/ointment delay is ridiculously obnoxious in the first place, and the sole getaround that makes using them worthwhile (spamming your sprite 6 times then quickly switching targets while each are applied).TheNightingale wrote:* Add a short (i.e. shorter than current bruise packs/ointment/gauze) delay to patches, and remove the delay from bruise packs, ointment and gauze
Opinions?
Patches are honestly fine generally speaking though. Not everything has to go through the 'it's reasonably robust! Nerf it!' process that it seems a few people push for. I haven't seen anyone until now complain about patches in this sense anyway.
Try changing it before shit occurs. Healing obnoxiously quickly makes it ridiculously difficult to kill someone. Think wizard with jaunt and two white medkits. And each item has several uses.
- CPTANT
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Re: Nerf patches
And this is interesting for gameplay how?J_Madison wrote:Super Aggro Crag wrote:You can't eat SS, SP or SF. They'll cause toxin damage and display a message.CPTANT wrote:I fail to see why a differentiation in ingestion based and touch based reagents is interesting in the first place.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Nerf patches
it still wont be viable as long as the BIG RED MESSAGE THAT TELLS EVERYBODY WHAT YOU DID is still inWyzack wrote:Here is hoping the whole "dropping pills into drinks" thing will actally become a viable murderstrategy once reagent obfuscation is in
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Re: Nerf patches
JOE HYPNOL SLIPS SOMETHING INTO THE GLASS!!!!!!!PKPenguin321 wrote:it still wont be viable as long as the BIG RED MESSAGE THAT TELLS EVERYBODY WHAT YOU DID is still inWyzack wrote:Here is hoping the whole "dropping pills into drinks" thing will actally become a viable murderstrategy once reagent obfuscation is in
- iamgoofball
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Re: Nerf patches
I'll remove the big red message, I agree that it is dumb.newfren wrote:JOE HYPNOL SLIPS SOMETHING INTO THE GLASS!!!!!!!PKPenguin321 wrote:it still wont be viable as long as the BIG RED MESSAGE THAT TELLS EVERYBODY WHAT YOU DID is still inWyzack wrote:Here is hoping the whole "dropping pills into drinks" thing will actally become a viable murderstrategy once reagent obfuscation is in
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Re: Nerf patches
It's not, it's basically hardcoded so it won't bug out when you use target-touch based medicines without actually targetting a place.CPTANT wrote:And this is interesting for gameplay how?J_Madison wrote:Super Aggro Crag wrote:You can't eat SS, SP or SF. They'll cause toxin damage and display a message.CPTANT wrote:I fail to see why a differentiation in ingestion based and touch based reagents is interesting in the first place.
- Shaps-cloud
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Re: Nerf patches
Keep the "slips something into the drink" message in as a normal black text thing so you can still notice it if you're not distracted
- Wyzack
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Re: Nerf patches
How about removing YOU FEEL LIKE YOU TOOK TOO MANY ROOFIES so people don't know exactly how they were poisoned
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Re: Nerf patches
i'm pretty sure the only poison with an OD is Histamine. I can add a thing to disable showing OD alerts on certain chems for histamine.Wyzack wrote:How about removing YOU FEEL LIKE YOU TOOK TOO MANY ROOFIES so people don't know exactly how they were poisoned
Then again, with med scanners being able to scan chems removing the message entirely could help. Who knows, I'll test run it.
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Re: Nerf patches
It's most prominent with the jab from a sleepypen telling you that someone's injected you with morphine goof.
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Re: Nerf patches
Stick to the topic guys.
Make your own topic to complain about that.
Make your own topic to complain about that.
- Super Aggro Crag
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Re: Nerf patches
being able to poison drinks stealthily just results in no one ever drinking anymore in case they'll get poisoned.
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Re: Nerf patches
Stick to the fucking topic. Make a new thread if you want to complain about that.
This is the discussion of patches, not parapens or C4.
Stick on topic or don't post at all. This isn't the place to discuss it.
This is the discussion of patches, not parapens or C4.
Stick on topic or don't post at all. This isn't the place to discuss it.
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Re: Nerf patches
Before default reagent viewing mixes that weren't drinks would be "what" and mixes that were majority drinks would appear as that drink you could slip in a minority of poison anyway. It is actually maintaining the status quo but is better for beakers and shit.Super Aggro Crag wrote:being able to poison drinks stealthily just results in no one ever drinking anymore in case they'll get poisoned.
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