Can we make Space Ninja less stupidly broken? Please?

[paprika]

Bottom post of the previous page:

>admins in charge of spawning ninjas when they're needed
>players in charge of playing ninjas properly when admins rely on them

This is the same reason we removed death squad, player competency.

[miggles]

i thought that was because the button got removed for some reason and never readded and nobody does it anymore because it takes forever to prep

[oranges]

>admins in charge of spawning ninjas when they're needed
>players in charge of playing ninjas properly when admins rely on them

This is the same reason we removed death squad, player competency.

If you pushed the button more often we'd have more chances to be good at it.

[MisterPerson]

Making it event only just means admins never spawn ninjas. Never having them just means someone removes them a year from now.

[Cipher3]

Making it event only just means admins never spawn ninjas. Never having them just means someone removes them a year from now.

Thousands of unpushed admin buttons, scattered across the endless fields of Trenzalore.

[Fatal]

I'm gonna push for this some more, after what just happened

Basically, low pop round, started with about 15 players, ended with 25 or so

Traitor blows up part of the station, steals all the Captains stuff in the first 30 seconds, gets caught, and executed

They got revived as a ninja, and promptly ran around and murderboned, killing about a third (or less, I'm not sure) of the station (they weren't a very good ninja and still managed that)

Either make ninja admin spawn only, or change the policy regarding ninjas, they are not particularly fun to fight because they are so laughably OP, so don't allow them to murderbone in such a blatant NO FUN ALLOWED fashion

[Steelpoint]

After more time to think, I disagree that Ninja should be a admin event only, if that happens then we will never see Space Ninja again as no admin wants to be personally responsible for spawning a Space Ninja in 99% of cases.

It should be reworked, such as removing the Scouter and/or increasing the power usage for teleporting. But making it a admin event would be effectively removing it.

[paprika]

>admins in charge of spawning ninjas when they're needed
>players in charge of playing ninjas properly when admins rely on them

This is the same reason we removed death squad, player competency.

If you pushed the button more often we'd have more chances to be good at it.

"If admins pushed the button for death squads with literally the most robust equipment in the game more often people would get good at it"

You could say that for everything but please consider what that would mean for events. Death squads arriving to shit all over everything is only funny the first time, trust me, getting pulse rifled in the head isn't fun. They were a lazy, shitty event that never worked. If the event was remade to properly equip death squaddies + their shuttle with gear it'd be more fun.

Also, the admins who announce death squads are coming before they come are funny because death squads always got swarmed and rekt because of it. And then they were typically like 'wow why are you mad you got rekt lol get good you're a death squad member!'

[Miauw]

ninjas are too cool to remove but they really need a rework but nobody wants to do a rework because the code is so shit.

[Steelpoint]

I now fully support the removal of Space Ninja until its NOT stupidly broken. I just came off a round where a Space Ninja proceeded to but into a Cult round, and he kept killing everyone with no effort. Despite the Evac shuttle being packed with a fully staffed and competent Security Team we could not even touch him. The only saving grace was that he forgot to get in the shuttle while he was murdering everyone outside the shuttle.

I can't even describe the autism of that event.

His last objective was. Objective #6: We are currently negotiating with Nanotrasen command. Prioritize saving human lives over ending them. Fail.

EDIT: Either that or Space Ninja's should be forced to obey their objectives and try and complete them over anything else. One thing I would like to envision is a Ninja being deployed in via a Drop Ship, finishing their objectives, then leaving. All during a normal round.

[Cipher3]

Ninjas actually having to do their objectives would be nice. Literally the only other thing they would ever do is genocide in the case of almost every ninja.

[miggles]

the thing is the RP objectives arent possible without admin help

[Steelpoint]

Forcing the Space Ninja to obey its Objectives it the ONLY way I can see to balance out Ninja as it stands without a major code overhaul.

I honestly think the intention of the creator was for the Ninja to be constrained by special Role Play objectives to limit the fact that the Space Ninja is absurdly overpowered, if anything the reason why its overpowered is to allow the Ninja to accomplish these objectives that are hard to pull off (Such as remaining completely undetected or kidnapping people).

Honestly though there is usually a admin online in my experience, I don't think the last objective being ticked off will be a major issue in the short term.

The only counter to my idea is that Ninja's can just as randomly get objectives that edge the Ninja on to kill people or outright demand the Ninja causes as much chaos as possible, though this is easier to fix by removing the more offending objectives.

[Kelenius]

[station_name] is financed by an enemy of the Spider Clan. Cause as much structural damage as possible.

SURE LET'S FORCE IT

I mean, I like the idea, but it would need new objectives. Current ones are, mhm. Not very suitable.

[leibniz]

1. Remove ninja from random events. This is a hotfix.
2. Start improving ninja code (this will take forever).
3. When ninja code reaches a good state, put it back.

[Steelpoint]

Just to try and demostrate what occurred in the round I was referring to (I took logs cause of a admin issue coincidently).

Picture the Evac shuttle having just docked, Security and several crew members are running to the Escape Wing. I pass Medbay and see fully healed Officer Marx, wearing a Riot Suit, get knocked down.

Carlina Marx has been sliced in the chest with the energy blade by Von Clausewitz!
Carlina Marx has been knocked down!

I inspect her and see...

Spoiler:

*---------*
This is Carlina Marx!
She is wearing a riot helmet on her head.
She is wearing a blood-stained riot suit!
She has a security backpack on her back.
She has blood-stained hands!
She has a blood-stained taser gun about her waist!
She is wearing some jackboots on her feet.
She has a security gas mask on her face.
She has HUDSunglasses covering her eyes.
She is wearing PDA-Carlina Marx (Security Officer).
She has severe bruising!
Criminal status: [None]
*---------*

That a single hit brought her to the verge of death.

Going down the hall I see the same thing occur to the Captain, only for him to get dragged away at Sanic speeds out of an airlock into space, this occurs many times with other people being knocked out instantly or simply going into critical (Someone said the Ninja Sword deals 70 Brute?).

I eventually get hit inside the Evac Shuttle, and in one hit to the chest.

Alan Bentway has been stabbed in the chest with the energy blade by Ben Griffin!
Your armour has softened a hit to your chest.
Alan Bentway has been knocked down!

My armour blocks a lot of the damage, but I still go down only to be dragged out to my (Slow, HoS Armour for the win) death.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The thing that irked me the most, aside from being a cheap way to go, was that none of us had any way to defend ourselves. A fully staffed, and good at that, Security team were just as much cannon fodder as Assistants against the Ninja. The Space Ninja lacks any real counter, the only way to counter or even harm a Ninja is if either the Ninja screws up in a major way, Role Plays, or has no idea what they are doing.

[Miauw]

http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=849

Gibe ideas to improve ninja there, keep complaining about how bad it is here so people don't have to dig through complaining to find ideas.

[Durkel]

I inspect her and see... That a single hit brought her to the verge of death.

That's because the energy blade does 70 brute damage.

If ninjas can be reworked then go for it, but they're just way too much bullshit at the moment. Even a blob isn't this bad on a round.

[Oldman Robustin]

This really isn't a dilemma guys.

Ninjas are a major NET REDUCTION IN FUN. I've put in WAY too many hours into this game and cannot think of a single ounce of fun that a ninja brought onto the station.

Either they murder EVERYONE or use the scouter and force extended mode. There is no "benefit". They have some OP fucking abilities, give a few to the wizard, remove ninja as an event until it sees a vast improvement and VIOLA you've just improved SS13 by 10% (or whatever fucking percentage of games spawn a non-AFK ninja).

[RG4]

I've suggested that Ninja can be replaced with Samurai, check in that thread on how I outlined how it'd work.

[Amelius]

They need to be removed and reworked, or at least phase jump needs to not telegib as a patchwork fix.

There's nothing more infuriating as an antag, to have done so much (or managed to acquire influence over the station and garnered the best equipment you could find in preparation for something greater), to be nuked out of nowhere by a ninja, with no opportunity to react, defend oneself, or even be cloned. Is this not the definition of 'anti-fun'? When you're taken out of the game, inexplicably, for no reason?

[leibniz]

PLEASE remove ninja from random events, we had months to make this happen.

[Ikarrus]

I tried, the PR was forced to put a delay on the event instead.

[leibniz]

I tried, the PR was forced to put a delay on the event instead.

Now looking at things I can see that it was nerfed, no more instagib and scouter I think. I guess that is better.
Still I dont really think this contributes to the rounds, almost as stupid as space carp.

Oh well.

[Ezel]

Ninja's are known of their stealth
goes onto a killing rampage

Ninjas mostly got a katana or shurikens with them
I guess the space ninja katana is the energy blade and soms energy shurikens
Since its PURE ENERGY MADE BLADE will put you in cry mode your grave

I mean 10 energy shurikens arent able to kill somoene but a hit with a energy blade does?
Gee


Or give spess ninja its own mode

[Alex Crimson]

What a bunch of babies. Space Ninja is supposed to be overpowered. They just arnt meant to murderbone. Its a player issue, not a problem with the game.

But really, replace Space Ninja with something like a Predator/Predalien. Either of those would be infinitely more fun.

[Ezel]

What a bunch of babies. Space Ninja is supposed to be overpowered. They just arnt meant to murderbone. Its a player issue, not a problem with the game.

But really, replace Space Ninja with something like a Predator/Predalien. Either of those would be infinitely more fun.

I know your right they shouldng murderbone
Better give space ninja its own mode he spawns in space blah blah
Make him when he enters the station there will be a centcom update about it
So they know the ninja is here and the ninja have to use stealth