Bottom post of the previous page:
At one point it got changed so that thrown mobs don't set off shocks.Not sure why, but it happened.
Bottom post of the previous page:
At one point it got changed so that thrown mobs don't set off shocks.tbh instead of revamping medical we could probably just remove/severely nerf defibs and be gucciAtticat wrote:Make death more punishing. As Lumi said, there needs to be something to lose, a consequence to death. Revamp the medical system so people are afraid of getting hurt. These days in ss13 nothing is scary because one stay in a self-serve cryotube is pretty much guarenteed to fix any ailment. Getting hit with 1 laser in the arm should carry the possibility of leaving you an unwilling amputee; getting hit in the leg should possibly make you a cripple only able to crawl across the station, begging for robotics to build you a new appendage.
i don't know man, i feel that experiencing frustration after death kind of leads to paranoiaKor wrote:100% lethal and no control isn't interesting. It isn't scary. It's just dumb and jarring and frustrating.
Nobody hailed the tesla's random teleport instant death trickshot ricochet bolts as the return of paranoia and fun.
Paranoia isn't taking away player agency/choice. Paranoia, well executed in these kinds of "who is the bad guy" games, is muddling that choice to lead people into making the wrong one.
course not getting cloned by genetics isn't paranoia, but that wasn't my pointZilenan91 wrote:Not getting cloned by shitty geneticists isn't paranoia, that's just shit. I don't think you quite know what that word means.
I can agree with the tesla. Just hide in a locker and laugh as it shocks everyone but you, then watch, and laugh, in deadchat, after it teleports onto your locker and dusts you.
Yeah you hear the noise, you run. You have choice, you have a chance. You react and run. It's fun. If you die to it now, you feel like you might have made it out, had you run just a bit sooner, or not into that dead end, or whatever.PKPenguin321 wrote:i don't know man, i feel that experiencing frustration after death kind of leads to paranoiaKor wrote:100% lethal and no control isn't interesting. It isn't scary. It's just dumb and jarring and frustrating.
Nobody hailed the tesla's random teleport instant death trickshot ricochet bolts as the return of paranoia and fun.
Paranoia isn't taking away player agency/choice. Paranoia, well executed in these kinds of "who is the bad guy" games, is muddling that choice to lead people into making the wrong one.
for example, before defibs, if you died and the geneticist didn't know his shit, it was admittedly frustrating as fuck. however, from that point forward, you would not want to die as you would not want to have to experience this again. fear of death = paranoia
even with the tesla, the first time i really encountered it i didn't give a shit, then BZZZZT. now whenever i hear the noise i run like all hell's broken loose. it's actually not bad for paranoia, just bad when it warps onto you with no sound and you instagib.
I played Dead of Winter earlier today a couple times, once as normal player, and once as the Betrayer. It's perfectly possible to create an experience that is enjoyable with this sort of gameplay.Oldman Robustin wrote:People who think you can have true paranoia from enjoyable outcomes are deluding themselves.
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To have surreptitiousness and subterfuge, you need to have a way to remove your target silently and quick enough so they can't just ";Traitor help"Amnestik wrote:IMO we need to focus less on mass combat and powerful weaponry, and more on surreptitiousness and subterfuge, while fleshing out the jobs in a fun and probably !FUN! way.
You mean the EMP flashlight? Tap them with it and everything they have is fried.Luke Cox wrote:Stealthy traitor item that disables nearby headsets when?
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
My PR that makes EMP flashlights independent from the EMP kit and only cost 2 TCs just went through a little bit ago. Pick one up the next time you're a traitor.Luke Cox wrote:Stealthy traitor item that disables nearby headsets when?
Hell yeah, that EMP flashlight is the only reason I buy those half the time.PKPenguin321 wrote:My PR that makes EMP flashlights independent from the EMP kit and only cost 2 TCs just went through a little bit ago. Pick one up the next time you're a traitor.Luke Cox wrote:Stealthy traitor item that disables nearby headsets when?
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
Add chameleon voice changersTakeguru wrote:To have surreptitiousness and subterfuge, you need to have a way to remove your target silently and quick enough so they can't just ";Traitor help"Amnestik wrote:IMO we need to focus less on mass combat and powerful weaponry, and more on surreptitiousness and subterfuge, while fleshing out the jobs in a fun and probably !FUN! way.
And that's no fun to be dunked by
I know I go on a lot about it, but old para-lings are a perfect example
They had a method of instant stun+mute, and even though they took time to do their thing, you almost certainly weren't coming back into the round afterwards
It was good for paranoia, but getting ended by it just pissed people off
It wasn't fun to combat and either left a few people gloating at being "robust" at the end of the round or everyone is salty because the changeling got caught and incinerated and the shuttle isn't being called despite 17 people lounging in dead chat and having a shouting match with the now-dead ling
But traitors or changelings aren't a loose tesla ball, so why should the scenarios be similar? Why is it easier to murderbone rampage instead of taking a single target silently? And then people wonder why the RP went down.Kor wrote:Yeah you hear the noise, you run. You have choice, you have a chance. You react and run. It's fun. If you die to it now, you feel like you might have made it out, had you run just a bit sooner, or not into that dead end, or whatever.PKPenguin321 wrote:i don't know man, i feel that experiencing frustration after death kind of leads to paranoiaKor wrote:100% lethal and no control isn't interesting. It isn't scary. It's just dumb and jarring and frustrating.
Nobody hailed the tesla's random teleport instant death trickshot ricochet bolts as the return of paranoia and fun.
Paranoia isn't taking away player agency/choice. Paranoia, well executed in these kinds of "who is the bad guy" games, is muddling that choice to lead people into making the wrong one.
for example, before defibs, if you died and the geneticist didn't know his shit, it was admittedly frustrating as fuck. however, from that point forward, you would not want to die as you would not want to have to experience this again. fear of death = paranoia
even with the tesla, the first time i really encountered it i didn't give a shit, then BZZZZT. now whenever i hear the noise i run like all hell's broken loose. it's actually not bad for paranoia, just bad when it warps onto you with no sound and you instagib.
Oldman's "we need it to be a plane crash where everything is hopeless and miserable and you can't control shit" is the no sound/instagib version (which was basically what parapen/c4 and parasting were, in player form).
I'd accompany it with a way to get back into the round as a new role in the wider setting that doesn't suck and takes awhile to get to the station if the player so choosesTakeguru wrote:To have surreptitiousness and subterfuge, you need to have a way to remove your target silently and quick enough so they can't just ";Traitor help"Amnestik wrote:IMO we need to focus less on mass combat and powerful weaponry, and more on surreptitiousness and subterfuge, while fleshing out the jobs in a fun and probably !FUN! way.
And that's no fun to be dunked by
I know I go on a lot about it, but old para-lings are a perfect example
They had a method of instant stun+mute, and even though they took time to do their thing, you almost certainly weren't coming back into the round afterwards
It was good for paranoia, but getting ended by it just pissed people off
It wasn't fun to combat and either left a few people gloating at being "robust" at the end of the round or everyone is salty because the changeling got caught and incinerated and the shuttle isn't being called despite 17 people lounging in dead chat and having a shouting match with the now-dead ling
No shit, it's a fucking videogame. You can exit at any time.Atticat wrote: Nobody ever truly has leverage over me.
CosmicScientist wrote:Also this wouldn't cause paranoia, this would simply cause fear of injury and fear of an incompetent (or absent) medical staffing.
Hmmmmmm...CosmicScientist, paraphrased wrote:It wont cause [anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion], just [anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion] of getting your shit slapped for being a retard starting fights.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
You get the VG problem where you euthanize your patients and toss them through a cloner when they damage is too much (or they're lost most of their blood)TheNightingale wrote:Okay, so hear me out here... what if we ported Baymed?
Evidence of this?Atticat wrote:
Apparently, the creator of lifeweb is working on his own version of ss13 that is supposedly almost finished. If it's ever released, I think the players of this community will get a taste of another take on spaaaaaace station where losing is fun!
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
EngamerAzari's real number one fangirl <3Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.
Which is one of the reasons this isn't "Dead of Winter".Kor wrote:No shit, it's a fucking videogame. You can exit at any time.Atticat wrote: Nobody ever truly has leverage over me.
I firmly believe, based on the behaviour of our admins, the players (in their constant i ded pls nerf feedback or their i ded pls ban ahelps), and our coders that this community has absolutely no desire for paranoia, despite some grumblings of nostalgia.Atticat wrote:I am unsure if you are either against space station being about paranoia, which is fine, or just unaware about what other games have already achieved ahead of this one.
That's because goonstation's single-player/PvE/Coop content is "engaging" enough that people can have fun in ways other then fighting other players.Steelpoint wrote:Goonstation's attitudes are not really comparable. I think the only time they give a crap is against Nuke Ops or a Horror Form Changeling, and barely even then.
For all the bitter tears it caused, parasting caused A LOT of paranoia, and it was the pinnacle of ggnore, uncounterable bullshit.Zilenan91 wrote:Paranoia doesn't work as game design if you never felt like you had a chance to come out on top. If you're just sitting there talking to people or doing your job and then beep boop you're dead that doesn't promote paranoia, that just means that people will just not play that job, or call the shuttle whenever things go even remotely south. Anything that is designed to make people want to not play the game is terrible.
so basically, don't make dying harder, but make it way more consequentialZilenan91 wrote:Paranoia doesn't work as game design if you never felt like you had a chance to come out on top. If you're just sitting there talking to people or doing your job and then beep boop you're dead that doesn't promote paranoia, that just means that people will just not play that job, or call the shuttle whenever things go even remotely south. Anything that is designed to make people want to not play the game is terrible.
having death be an actual penalty instead of something you can laugh off makes you not want to dieZilenan91 wrote:That doesn't create paranoia, that just makes people not play the game. The game will simply never be designed around paranoia, not without changing the entire thing.
Except it has worked in the past.Zilenan91 wrote:Paranoia doesn't work as game design if you never felt like you had a chance to come out on top. If you're just sitting there talking to people or doing your job and then beep boop you're dead that doesn't promote paranoia, that just means that people will just not play that job, or call the shuttle whenever things go even remotely south. Anything that is designed to make people want to not play the game is terrible.
the only rounds where i have to complain about being dead are rounds where i'm an antag and i've been validhuntedlumipharon wrote:^
When I first started playing I died more rounds then I survived.
Most rounds for that matter ended with most of the crew dead one way or another.
Today, 90% of the time when the shuttle leaves, almost all the crew are alive and well onboard.
There was plenty of bullshit deaths, but that just made it more interesting. People used to rage about getting killed 10 minutes into 2 hour ling rounds - now, people just complain about being dead for 10 minutes.
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