Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

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TheWulfe
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Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by TheWulfe » #161393

Your byond account: TheWulfe
Your character name: August Talon
Their character name: Nathan Ward
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): Sirnat
Server and time: Sybil, 3/12 11:30~ish
Description of what happened:

Security gets a call that Nathan Ward neurotoxin'd(?)* the HoS, so he's on arrest. An important thing to note here, my first attempt to detain him was with the Security Mask's HALT! function, giving him his best opportunity throughout the entire round to accept detainment. Instead Nathan's active resistance in running establishes resisting arrest, and then he crosses the line twice when he starts syringing officers full of whatever. During multiple engagements he keeps neurotoxining officers attempting to detain him and stealing their weapons.

Then after this shitshow Nathan Ward shouts over radio everything is somehow resolved because he said he did whatever with the HoS. Obviously since an antagonist saying something doesn't mean it's true, and 90% of the time it's an assholeish taunt, he's still walking around wanted. He's spotted again later so I attempt to detain him.

It probably would have once again ended there if he just let me detain them and confirm with the HoS. And I get neurotoxin'd again. So obviously due to his compound shittery I call out that he's still neurotoxining people. Once again Nathan Ward takes any attempt to detain him as permission to wage war against security personnel. He's now back to the toxing and stealing weaponry and using them against us.

And the whole shitshow's climax was when he's now actively killing officers with his neurotoxins and throwing molotovs into them.

This would have been acceptable if he was antagonist, but endround comes and it turns out that Nathan Ward's 30+ minute active warfare against security was him acting as a nonantagonist.

*Note: I don't know what were in these, sometimes they knocked us down for a while, other times they made me constantly tripping, stammering, screen woozy, and brain damaged for a good couple of minutes. I think its obvious chemical syringes going into you is as bad, if not worse than someone actually firing bullets at you
_____________________

Why they should be banned:
1. You don't get to wage disproportionate combat whenever security wants to detain you as a nonantagonist, whether you think the initial arrest was justified or not.
2. Being actively wanted doesn't mean you get free antagonist
3. Nathan Ward's escalation was only based on his own criteria, and he escalated himself based on his own actions.
4. This could have been solved any time by just properly turning himself in or actually accepting being detained among his many encounters.
5. Allegedly he was granted 'permission' to 'defend himself' from security by an admin. I want this explained, maybe an investigation of special treatment or even metafriending.
onleavedontatme
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by onleavedontatme » #161397

I'm not really sure what happened prior to Nathan being set to arrest, but after he adminhelped that security was harassing him endlessly for defending himself, I told him he could defend himself lethally since there was nothing at all else going on in the round (40 minutes with a stealth wizard).

If something terrible happened it's my fault for giving him the lazy go ahead while I was working on code, not his for getting permission first.
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sirnat
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:27 pm
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by sirnat » #161398

Heres my story:
>Spawn
>Get the usual insuls and tools
>Go hack the bar vendor in maint and make a molotov with the rag inside, find the vendor wires
>Make gargle blast in the bar as well
>Goto medbay get the syringe gun and morphine bottles and begin making neuro tox darts for the syringe gun to defend myself in maint while searching for toys like I 99% of the time do as an assistant. (Finding toys, not grabbing the materials)
>Find a toy and it turns out to be my favorite, the cleaning foam one which can be fun to use and useful to clean floors with
>Goto the front of the bridge and show the HOP (Mekhi) the toy and the HoS slips to the right
>HoS chases me down tries tasing me but missed, obviously mad he slipped on foam
>He then brings out his shotgun and misses as well so now only then do I bring out my syringe gun and dart him
>After hes darted I dash to maint and hide out, sending multiple pda messages trying to explain and find out what was going on with him and why he was trying to arrest me
>HoS and another officer find me and fire tasers, both missing, I then dart one and tase the next taking both their tasers and running back into maint
>PDA HoS explaining im only defending myself and he says I can go free basically if I return the weapons
>I hack into dets office,throw the guns inside and bolt back to my hiding spot
>I PDA HoS about it and he tells me its all good but they'll keep an eye on me
>As Im walking through the hall thinking its all good, another officer fires on me with a taser or a shotgun I cant remember
>I then dart him and then a officer tells me to come to the brig to settle it all so as im omw to the brig through the hall a officer fires another taser at me
>I dart him and fuck off to maint knowing this will never stop.
>I ahelp and ask for permission to finally begin protecting myself violently as sec has been escalating the matter by continuously harrassing me
>I get permission and only really fight back with two molotovs maybe three, and one time with a shotgun at arrivals I picked up after the officers shot me with it.
Laimfu
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by Laimfu » #161401

I was there as one of the sec officers that got robusted by neurotoxin. Nathan was justified, sec fucked with him too many times and he dished it out twice as hard.
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TheWulfe
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by TheWulfe » #161408

sirnat wrote:Heres my story:
>Spawn
>Get the usual insuls and tools
>Go hack the bar vendor in maint and make a molotov with the rag inside, find the vendor wires
>Make gargle blast in the bar as well
>Goto medbay get the syringe gun and morphine bottles and begin making neuro tox darts for the syringe gun to defend myself in maint while searching for toys like I 99% of the time do as an assistant. (Finding toys, not grabbing the materials)
>Find a toy and it turns out to be my favorite, the cleaning foam one which can be fun to use and useful to clean floors with
Well... No real comment beyond the absurd meta and the absurd amount of materials you had. I can't even attempt to give benefit of the doubt here. It's almost like you were preemptively preparing for a war with a department, waiting for the opportunity to use it, and maybe you think you're cheeky that you liked the toy for nothing but its slips.
>Goto the front of the bridge and show the HOP (Mekhi) the toy and the HoS slips to the right
>HoS chases me down tries tasing me but missed, obviously mad he slipped on foam
>He then brings out his shotgun and misses as well so now only then do I bring out my syringe gun and dart him
>After hes darted I dash to maint and hide out, sending multiple pda messages trying to explain and find out what was going on with him and why he was trying to arrest me
>HoS and another officer find me and fire tasers, both missing, I then dart one and tase the next taking both their tasers and running back into maint
>PDA HoS explaining im only defending myself and he says I can go free basically if I return the weapons
>I hack into dets office,throw the guns inside and bolt back to my hiding spot
>I PDA HoS about it and he tells me its all good but they'll keep an eye on me
>As Im walking through the hall thinking its all good, another officer fires on me with a taser or a shotgun I cant remember
>I then dart him and then a officer tells me to come to the brig to settle it all so as im omw to the brig through the hall a officer fires another taser at me
>I dart him and fuck off to maint knowing this will never stop.
>I ahelp and ask for permission to finally begin protecting myself violently as sec has been escalating the matter by continuously harrassing me
>I get permission and only really fight back with two molotovs maybe three, and one time with a shotgun at arrivals I picked up after the officers shot me with it.
As for the rest of this.

You're treating a security officer firing at you (especially if you yourself know you've done nothing wrong) as if it was an attack on your life, it's almost standard on this server that security using a taser is the default detainment method, I know you're not stupid. Especially if by my own experience you flat out ignored a HALT! gas mask warning with no shots were fired by your own 'criteria'.

I PDA'd you to come to brig to sort it out, but only went away and disregarded the whole thing after I got a PDA response something along the lines of 'Yea no, not falling for that you're going to kill me'. And even when you went anyway, you didn't accept custody of the guy in brig hall and wound up syringing him too.

You're lying at any attempt to want peaceful resolution. You had plenty of opportunity to get that peaceful resolution and it fell on you 100% of time; usually it means something like taking your hand off the keyboard to stop fucking running away, or you know, stop syringing people. Your actions are clear that you really liked playing war against security as a pseudo antagonist, and these are the thinnest excuses at playing innocent to do so.
Laimfu wrote: I was there as one of the sec officers that got robusted by neurotoxin. Nathan was justified, sec fucked with him too many times and he dished it out twice as hard.
'Fucked with him' usually means he was a wanted and someone wanted him detained. Each detainment is all part of the same action on a part of security. He escalated based on his own goalposts. You can't escalate circularly by your own actions when no real escalation has been used against you:

Syringe HoS | Security now wants you arrested (Literally just means you're Wanted)

Resist arrest | Security still wants you arrested

Syringe all officers and steal and use guns | Security still wants you arrested

Now wage active warfare against security | Security still wants you arrested

You're now killing security
Last edited by TheWulfe on Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Zilenan91
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by Zilenan91 » #161409

I mean, if you've been running around tasing and syringing sec officers, you bet your ass they'll harmbaton you to death the second they get ahold of you. I'd do it.
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sirnat
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by sirnat » #161410

HoS attempted to stun me first fnr, when I syringed him and ran away is when this all started.

When you pda'd me I was omw to the brig shortly after, thats when another officer tried tasing me.

Meta? Please explain how I meta'd in anyway, I didn't use any OOC information to benefit me IC
onleavedontatme
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by onleavedontatme » #161412

TheWulfe wrote: You're treating a security officer firing at you (especially if you yourself know you've done nothing wrong) as if it was an attack on your life
The captain (or HoS? someone on an important channel with big words) actually declared him kill on sight at one point that round, and security generally has a lot of leeway with permabrigging/gulagging/executing assistants, so often a sec officer attacking you does actually end with you out of the round.
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TheWulfe
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by TheWulfe » #161415

Zilenan91 wrote:I mean, if you've been running around tasing and syringing sec officers, you bet your ass they'll harmbaton you to death the second they get ahold of you. I'd do it.
Kor wrote:The captain (or HoS? someone on an important channel with big words) actually declared him kill on sight at one point that round, and security generally has a lot of leeway with permabrigging/gulagging/executing assistants, so often a sec officer attacking you does actually end with you out of the round.
Again, this is circular escalation by one's own actions. Let's do this in a thought process way:

'Gee, this guy wants me arrested... You know what'd really piss him off? If I shot him with chemsyringes and ran away. '
'Oh that pissed them off, now I'm wanted and all points bulletin by the security department. I should start syringing all officers and stealing guns now!'
'They're really after me now! I better start really getting into real war mode and start Molotoving with pretty much a guaranteed delayed kill!'
'Woopdie woo! They want me dead on sight now for killing officers. That means I get to kill them, they're going to kill me!

See how that works out? You can't loophole your own escalation as a way to a murder. Actually, now that I got the term, the exact term is called 'Killbaiting'
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TechnoAlchemist
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by TechnoAlchemist » #161416

Yeah I'm just gonna go out of my way to say that making neurotoxin syringes and carrying them and a syringe gun with you as a non-antag is more powergaming than I am willing to allow. Don't do that.
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sirnat
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by sirnat » #161417

This all started because the HoS (Who I talked to after the round and said it was one big mis understanding with sec) trying to tase me for using a toy which is a big no no especially if he only slipped once.

After he missed the first taser shot I kept running, but when he broke out the shotgun which can be filled with lethal or non lethal rounds, I fired at him with the syringe gun.

I believe everyones flipping out because I used neuro toxin, (Inb4 nerf), but still neuro toxin isn't harmful, its a short stun as if you were morphined but its not lethal.

I said plenty of times to security,I had plenty of chances to kill you all when you were stunned, yet noone wanted to listen to reason.

I know I used to be a greyshit 100% of the time but since my asst ban that Kor gave me ive been doing my best to play better, that round I decided to kick back and relax while skulking maint for a toy instead to have it filled with excitement by hiding from sec all round.

Edit: Also techno if you feel that its that bad of PG I won't do it again then.

Second edit:

Killbaiting? How is it killbaiting when I only started using lethals after a good, 20-30 minutes of harrassment from sec, AFTER I returned two tasers one being hos gun, PDA'd the hos many times trying to defuse the situation, and ultimately was going to the brig to talk instead being shot at by another officer with his taser?

Why cant you get in your skull that maybe I wasn't willing to allow you to confiscate my items such as my cleaning foam toy, my syringe gun, and my syringes? How do I know you wern't going to perma me? How do I know you wern't going to execute me? The HoS himself said I was a syndicate so I knew I was fucked then.
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TheWulfe
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by TheWulfe » #161421

This is absurd. I'm tired. I would point to some main points before the night.

1. No, an officer firing a taser at you is not cause for you to go into war mode, it's how people are usually detained when wanted, you can't play stupid here, you don't get right to excessive escalation and play war in response.

2. You can't escalate circularly your way to murder as a nonantagonist. (See above)

3. I don't get how fucking hard it was for you to play the innocent you're claiming here: The resolution was literally standing still and not fucking shooting people for 30 minutes straight.
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sirnat
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by sirnat » #161424

You keep acting as if I went straight to killing people:

I ahelped and asked if this was escalation because I attempted to defuse the situation.

You can't seem to get it through your head that I wasn't going to be arrested for simply using a toy, as the HoS had no reason to even try and arrest me for simply using whats basically the janitors cleaning grenade..
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Saegrimr
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by Saegrimr » #161426

Literally acting like an antag and being treated like an antag.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
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sirnat
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by sirnat » #161428

Saegrimr wrote:Literally acting like an antag and being treated like an antag.
Oh I know, I'm not upset with dying at the end or anything like that, like I said me and the HOS talked in ooc after round and he explained why shit kept happening, and for some reason he apologized when he wasn't at fault.

Wulfe here felt that because I was able to resist arrest because I was being detained fnr that i should be punished for having waited after a long time of harassment before going lethal in my retaliation.

I also let the admins know I wont be doing the neuro tox syringe gun gimmick anymore as its seen as powergame. I've been doing my best to keep my act up since for the past few months I don't believe this situation is anything major because as I said I didn't go full lethal as in to really kill anyone. I only truly critted one person that I know of, and burned the warden twice with molotovs as they chased me.

I'm done posting here though unless an admin has questions for me directly it's been explained what happened a few times now.
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by Jacough » #161429

Thought it might be worth pointing out that this isn't exactly new behavior for sirnat.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 75#p132575
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 31700#wrap

I'd also imagine there's some notes about other shit he's done that admins can see too.
Point is that he's had an issue with causing trouble with other players as a nonantag and then escalating them into total clusterfucks and ahelps since late 2015 and it doesn't seem like he intends to change his play style any time soon.
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sirnat
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by sirnat » #161430

Jacough wrote:Thought it might be worth pointing out that this isn't exactly new behavior for sirnat.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 75#p132575
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 31700#wrap

I'd also imagine there's some notes about other shit he's done that admins can see too.
Point is that he's had an issue with causing trouble with other players as a nonantag and then escalating them into total clusterfucks and ahelps since late 2015 and it doesn't seem like he intends to change his play style any time soon.

Okay since you want to bring my past into it:

I did not help once dunked by the warden
I only ahelped to make sure if I retaliated with violence I would not be punished as I had been harassed.
I have not had a note at all this year except one from loller about a ooc in ic which was an accident when I yelled, "Its gangs!" Instead of, "There's gangs!"

I've been checking in with admins lately making sure my behavior has improved and have been told it has. You attempt to try and start the, "Oh he was a shit in the past this totally means he's back to it!" Show me a note in the past 3 months that relates or shows my gameplay has not changed.

I'm pretty sure if I acted like I used to, Kor/Loller would've perma banned me.
onleavedontatme
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by onleavedontatme » #161431

Jacough wrote:Thought it might be worth pointing out that this isn't exactly new behavior for sirnat.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 75#p132575
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 31700#wrap

I'd also imagine there's some notes about other shit he's done that admins can see too.
Point is that he's had an issue with causing trouble with other players as a nonantag and then escalating them into total clusterfucks and ahelps since late 2015 and it doesn't seem like he intends to change his play style any time soon.
Those were both early November. It's been 4 months and the only two notes since that incident are

2016-01-05 20:56:57 | Sybil | lollerderby [Remove Note] [Edit Note]
Banned for 10 minutes - OOC in IC: [Common] Nathan Ward yells, "ITS GANGS!!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2016-01-29 04:28:48 | Sybil | technoalchemist [Remove Note] [Edit Note] Last edit by technoalchemist (Click here to see edit log)
Banned for 0.0001 minutes - threatening me.

He's really not been a problem since the assistant ban.
Saegrimr wrote:Literally acting like an antag and being treated like an antag.
Yeah exactly, the guys relentlessly pursuing him over some foam got fucked up in the end when they didn't back off.

I don't think players should be obligated to roll over and accept a nonsensical arrest from security, or the inevitable execution that follows from resisting arrest. Escalation rules are already massively slanted towards security, in which they can pretty much kill you for ever defying them but resisting arrest results in bwoinks/ban requests/bans.

Sirnat attempted to deescalate multiple times by returning guns and communicating with the HoS, apologizing repeatedly, warning him of other lawbreakers, and even attempting to show up at the brig for a face to face talk. Admins who want to jump in on this should read the dozens of PDA messages he sent trying to work things out with the HoS. This hits all the checkmarks of the escalation rules and then some, (non-lethal defense multiple times, attempts at disengaging, trying to talk it out, returning items to the attacker, relentless attacker pursuit) the only difference in this case is that one player is an officer. Being an officer should not entitle you to have admins ban the other guy if they don't let you win.

Finally, it seems that once again people are failing to understand that just because you're in the right (arresting someone who shot the HoS) doesn't mean the other guy can't also be in the right (escaping a stupid arrest). SS13 is set up to promote conflict, it's possible for people to be opposed to eachother without a black or white "this is the bannable side."

And once again and most importantly in all of this, he asked me first, so all of this is on me, not him.

I'm also done replying to this thread because it's a ridiculous waste of time and words over being wounded in a videogame before you ultimately got to kill the guy in question. We've wasted more time on this than he did yours by resisting arrest. All these words will be forgotten in a week, and so will the incident in question.
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oranges
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by oranges » #161436

I think I was in this round as well, did you also randomly shoot the clown with toxin or morphine?

it's a real pattern with you.
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Archie700
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by Archie700 » #161446

oranges wrote:I think I was in this round as well, did you also randomly shoot the clown with toxin or morphine?

it's a real pattern with you.
He did. In front of the HoP.

I was observing him for a moment.
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Saegrimr
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by Saegrimr » #161505

Kor wrote:Yeah exactly, the guys relentlessly pursuing him over some foam got fucked up in the end when they didn't back off.
Random sec officers aren't going to know its because the HoS is a salty baby that he slipped.

They see a guy labeled "Wanted" with a neurotoxin syringe gun taking down other officers. I'd go full harmbaton on his skull too with only that much information. Did the HoS even explain why he was wanted? Or was he just "GRRR DAMN GREYSHIRTS! KILL ON SIGHT!"
Kor wrote:Sirnat attempted to deescalate multiple times by returning guns and communicating with the HoS, apologizing repeatedly, warning him of other lawbreakers, and even attempting to show up at the brig for a face to face talk.
If anything i'd be telling that HoS to quit being a big baby as well.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
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Malkevin
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by Malkevin » #161522

sirnat wrote:HoS attempted to stun me first fnr, when I syringed him and ran away is when this all started.
You slipped him, hardly 'for no reason'.

Might've been an accident, and might have been an overreaction on the HoS's part, but its still a reason - especially considering that slips are once again one of the deadliest stuns known to spaceman.

Maybe if you two had talked it out nothing else would've happened, but you decided to wage a guerrilla war instead, so we'll never know.
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sirnat
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by sirnat » #161523

oranges wrote:I think I was in this round as well, did you also randomly shoot the clown with toxin or morphine?

it's a real pattern with you.
That did happen yeah but I helped him up right after, he was role playing holding up the HoP so I messed around for a minute while sec wasn't around, but no I didn't just hit him and run I actually stayed and talked to the clown after because I had showed him the toy first.

Also malkevin the toy dispenses foam like the janitors grenade and cleans too does that mean sec can arrest the janitor using cleaner nades?
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Malkevin
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by Malkevin » #161532

If he's doing it to actually clean stuff, has put up signs, has given a radio warning thats he's about to deploy a foam grenade - AKA using the tools of his job to actually do the job they are used for. Then of course not.
If he's just tossing them around the place willy nilly to laugh at people slipping on their arses then he not only should be arrested but should be thrown up on a meat spike for the local villagers to throw rotten tomatoes at.

Anything in between is up to context.


The argument of "its just foam" is a semantic one that only applies to real life not the game.
You might see it as cleaning fluid, I see it as what it really is - an AEO stun thats basically a viable alternative to a flashbang, actually somewhat better a flashbang being that there's only one item on station that counters it (and one that traitors buy, often) and the stun zone persists for several seconds after going off. I'm not sure what the exact stun time is anymore, but I'm pretty sure they're about the same now. I know its enough time to pull out and esword and kill anyone - even the HoS now that his armor is massively gimped.

And I should know what I'm talking about, seeing as I used to roll janitor largely so that I could get antag then see how many kills I could rack up via nothing but a double esword and a squeegee bottle, and a few foam nades for when the shit got tough.
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by Zilenan91 » #161594

Slips are 3 seconds now afaik
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TheWulfe
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by TheWulfe » #161603

Kor wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:Literally acting like an antag and being treated like an antag.
Yeah exactly, the guys relentlessly pursuing him over some foam got fucked up in the end when they didn't back off.
Better watch out now. If a player tells security to back off an arrest they get free antag. I might have been OK with 'act like an antag, get treated like an antag, he died so it's all resolved,' but that's usually for someone being a chucklefuck and busting into science for plasma canisters and promptly getting a toolbox to the head. Not constantly syringing and waging a guerrilla war on officers on sight.

And to compound on that, the 'act like an antag get treated like an antag' is a defense against line-toeing behavior; it doesn't mean you get free antag when you crossed that line in response.
I don't think players should be obligated to roll over and accept a nonsensical arrest from security, or the inevitable execution that follows from resisting arrest. Escalation rules are already massively slanted towards security, in which they can pretty much kill you for ever defying them but resisting arrest results in bwoinks/ban requests/bans.

Sirnat attempted to deescalate multiple times by returning guns and communicating with the HoS, apologizing repeatedly, warning him of other lawbreakers, and even attempting to show up at the brig for a face to face talk. Admins who want to jump in on this should read the dozens of PDA messages he sent trying to work things out with the HoS. This hits all the checkmarks of the escalation rules and then some, (non-lethal defense multiple times, attempts at disengaging, trying to talk it out, returning items to the attacker, relentless attacker pursuit) the only difference in this case is that one player is an officer. Being an officer should not entitle you to have admins ban the other guy if they don't let you win.

Finally, it seems that once again people are failing to understand that just because you're in the right (arresting someone who shot the HoS) doesn't mean the other guy can't also be in the right (escaping a stupid arrest). SS13 is set up to promote conflict, it's possible for people to be opposed to eachother without a black or white "this is the bannable side."
This wasn't a chucklefuck running from a minor arrest and taking 20 seconds away from my time. He was waging full on total war against security with a stupid amount of roundstart powergaming items, and then killing them once his own criteria was set. I don't know how that comes anywhere close to being in the right.

He escalated himself with his own actions, that's not proper escalation, I don't need to repeat this.

He never attempted peace. Not once. He played a couple fiddles to play along in a way to keep his powergaming and contraband items. Peaceful deescalation and resolution was not waging war against officers for 30 minutes. You're on arrest and you have a warrant, you know you're wanted. A taser is a way to detain you, it's not the trigger for total war. You don't get to play antagonist because you're wanted. If you wanted peace he could have ended everything by lifting your hand off the keyboard, resting when near an officer, basically anything that doesn't involve shooting people.

This is actually provable with my initial detainment call being a 'HALT!' warning which he took to syringing officers.
And once again and most importantly in all of this, he asked me first, so all of this is on me, not him.

I'm also done replying to this thread because it's a ridiculous waste of time and words over being wounded in a videogame before you ultimately got to kill the guy in question. We've wasted more time on this than he did yours by resisting arrest. All these words will be forgotten in a week, and so will the incident in question.
I don't doubt the idiocy of giving someone a go-ahead to kill officers as a non-antagonist. But I know he isn't stupid, and he knew what he was crossing the line with his actions the entire time. He got to play antagonist without being antagonist.

Unfortunately, you've established dangerous precedent, especially in regards to escalation and non-antagonist griefing behavior if you let this slide.
Zilenan91
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by Zilenan91 » #161607

He was totally in the rights by resisting arrest because if he ever got arrested he'd get fucking killed and his body hid.
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Saegrimr
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by Saegrimr » #161610

TheWulfe wrote:Unfortunately, you've established dangerous precedent, especially in regards to escalation and non-antagonist griefing behavior if you let this slide.
I think you're missing a key point here in that he already let it slide.

You're being a doomsayer here when this was something that was specifically ahelped and then ""specifically"" given permission to do so. This wasn't something sirnat decided on his own and then went ahead with it and argued his way out of.

All things considered... as a ban request this is 100% invalid since he was given permission to do so. I mean this would more closely be an admin complaint against Kor if you're really that upset about it.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by TheWulfe » #161621

Zilenan91 wrote:He was totally in the rights by resisting arrest because if he ever got arrested he'd get fucking killed and his body hid.
He escalated himself into that territory. Security wanted him arrested him until he waged himself into the war into kill-or-be-killed mode. What do you not get about that?
Saegrimr wrote:I think you're missing a key point here in that he already let it slide.

You're being a doomsayer here when this was something that was specifically ahelped and then ""specifically"" given permission to do so. This wasn't something sirnat decided on his own and then went ahead with it and argued his way out of.

All things considered... as a ban request this is 100% invalid since he was given permission to do so. I mean this would more closely be an admin complaint against Kor if you're really that upset about it.
I'm not considering the final 'judgment' into killing, which you're right, I am going to make an admin complaint.

I'm talking about his response into his poor self-escalation into waging war, which allowed him to get into that very territory where he can AHelp an admin to make the call that resulted in the death of officers.

So while we're here, I don't even know if he started his true harm and murders before the actual ASay. I want the entire AHelp/ASay conversion log that granted this permission, I bet it doesn't even mention the fact that he's been syringing and stealing guns from every officer getting near him. Probably something about only mentioning his 'harassment' which would consist of attempted detainment, tasers shots and riot guns.
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Re: Nathan Ward - Waging War, Killing Security As Nonantag

Post by Saegrimr » #161628

Whoops wrong thread.

Anyway seeing as this is pretty much invalid as a ban request, i'll be closing it.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
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