Saltball's Grab Nerf
- ShadowDimentio
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- TechnoAlchemist
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
I guess goof "doesn't play" ball played and got tabled and then grudgecoded.
- ShadowDimentio
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Tabling is a shadow of its former glory, it's like a microsecond stun. How does one produce salt towards that which cannot dunk you
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- iamgoofball
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
TechnoAlchemist wrote:I guess goof "doesn't play" ball played and got tabled and then grudgecoded.
- Saegrimr
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Don't worry he'll just add a "Neurostim Slim Jim" reagent to goofchem that allows for more robust tabling.
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
well actually someone walked up to me while I was wrenching something down, grabbed me, quickaggro'd since there's no cooldown on passive->aggro, then neckgrabbed me
then I found out that the resist grab escape was literally broken and has been for 4 years,
then i found out the prob to get out of a neck grab by moving(which was the only way to get out due to resist being broken)
is 5% chance
and it increases your move delay to like 30 seconds
and then to add on, it stuns/weakens you, meaning you can't move at all
therefore, you literally couldn't escape a grab
then I found out that the resist grab escape was literally broken and has been for 4 years,
then i found out the prob to get out of a neck grab by moving(which was the only way to get out due to resist being broken)
is 5% chance
and it increases your move delay to like 30 seconds
and then to add on, it stuns/weakens you, meaning you can't move at all
therefore, you literally couldn't escape a grab
- Aloraydrel
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
I will say it again that if you get placed into a choke hold it is usually 90% your fault. Meme change
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
and that's an excuse for it being impossible to escape due to bugs?
for all you guys talk about counter play memes there's no counter if you get neckgrabbed
for all you guys talk about counter play memes there's no counter if you get neckgrabbed
- CPTANT
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Grabs are almost never used, are hard to apply and take ages to actually crit someone.
You gotta have options in the game besides stunning and cuffing you know.
You gotta have options in the game besides stunning and cuffing you know.
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- Wyzack
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Neck grabs were the only reliable way to restrain lings. Everyone assumed it was a feature, good thing this horrible fun bug was removed
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- ShadowDimentio
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
>No countersiamgoofball wrote:and that's an excuse for it being impossible to escape due to bugs?
for all you guys talk about counter play memes there's no counter if you get neckgrabbed
>Except literally just moving before you get neckgrabbed
Bugfixing is fine but pairing it with GRUDGECODING NERFS :^))) is inexcuseable
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- leibniz
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
so thats why resist never worked since years, I thought I was doing it wrong or whateveriamgoofball wrote: then I found out that the resist grab escape was literally broken and has been for 4 years,
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Oldman Robustin did this to me twice, just to get a rise from me. You do not see me throwing up grudge PRs to nerf everything that makes me angry...
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
You have to be not paying attention/chain stunned/cuffed to gete neck grabbed in the first place.
Yes there is no delay between passive grab and aggressive grab, but there is a significant one to go to neck grab. Now there is literally no point in ever trying to neckgrab someone. Please, prove me wrong.
Yes there is no delay between passive grab and aggressive grab, but there is a significant one to go to neck grab. Now there is literally no point in ever trying to neckgrab someone. Please, prove me wrong.
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Not like an agressive grab can do anything other than throwing someone to a wall or tabling. And the move delay is to the one that is grabbing, not the one being grabbed.
- Luke Cox
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
They key point here is that you have to stun your target before you can reliably get them in an aggressive grab. Somebody fucked with goofball in-game, he got pissy and grudgecoded this. I know it gets thrown around a lot, but "git gud" really does apply here.
- TechnoAlchemist
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
The delay for neckgrab is already huge, so either you got carp fu'd or you are just bad I am sorry
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
I've already made a PR to scale this back, although it should really be reverted entirely (but the revert got denied because "muh kneejerk XD!")
reposting my github post about why this was a shit nerf:
reposting my github post about why this was a shit nerf:
tl;dr: goof didn't just nerf neckgrabbing but effectively removed it and nobody noticedalso i'd like to point out that with goofball's nerfs, this would happen:
1. you go for a neckgrab
2. it takes literally as long as killgrabs did prenerf (see: standing still for like 15 odd seconds)
3. during this time the person you are grabbing can move at any moment and break out meaning that the idea of getting the grab in the first place is outright unrealistic
4. if you somehow miraculously get them into a neckgrab, they are not stunned at all and can immediately try to break out
5. they proc a breakout approx. 1 time per second with a 50% chance of breaking out every time
6. to upgrade to a killgrab you need to stand still for 20~ more seconds (each second has a 50% chance of the person breaking out! 20 coin flips all landing on heads!) without them breaking out, which statistically will never realistically happen ever
he effectively removed killgrabs, and made neckgrabs so mindbogglingly worthless that he may as well have removed those too
shame on whoever thought it was a good PR
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- Aloraydrel
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Called moving or not getting stunned tbhiamgoofball wrote:and that's an excuse for it being impossible to escape due to bugs?
for all you guys talk about counter play memes there's no counter if you get neckgrabbed
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
There does need to be a way to escape neckgrabs, but triggering a 50% chance 20 times doesn't seem quite right.
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
If you have time to neckgrab someone you have enough time to drag them into maint, find some wire, make cable cuffs and cuff them. And you can't break out of those without standing there for 30 seconds not moving, and no on complains about that.
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Grabs are weird and retarded. I've disarmed/stunned/ran away from a guy neckgrabbing me before, only for it to fail/still neckgrab/literally teleport me through walls into their grasp.
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- oranges
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
grabs are going away
- Luke Cox
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Given the feedback in this thread, coderbus may want to rethink thatoranges wrote:grabs are going away
- ShadowDimentio
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
>Implying coderbus doesn't just do whatever they feel like until a normie steps in and makes change themselves (See: Newcult and American Hero Oldman)
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- 1g88a
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
I was under the impression that coderbus wanted to outright replace the grab code, not make grabs something that cannot happen.oranges wrote:grabs are going away
If you remove grabs you have to remove all wrestling related items.
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- ShadowDimentio
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
>Remove grabs
W H Y
The help/disarm/harm/grab cube works so perfectly well, what possible reasons would we want to remove grabs
W H Y
The help/disarm/harm/grab cube works so perfectly well, what possible reasons would we want to remove grabs
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- ShadowDimentio
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
If they actually develop a GOOD grab 2.0 alternative then I'll be cool, but coderbus has a fucking terrible track record of starting ambitious projects, giving up and pushing through shit half-finished project (disablers, goofchem, newcult, ling, and so many more) that only serve to shit up everything.
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
We have a great alternative already. Click/drag is far better in most situations.
The tricky thing to replace is mob throws.
The tricky thing to replace is mob throws.
- Steelpoint
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Didn't people only get put in a grab hold is if they are either utterly inattentive or are stunned before hand?
Sure if you've got great ping to the server and someone who is busy doing something else then you MAY get something out of it, but otherwise it seems so much a non-issue and a literal 'I ded pls nerf' change.
Sure if you've got great ping to the server and someone who is busy doing something else then you MAY get something out of it, but otherwise it seems so much a non-issue and a literal 'I ded pls nerf' change.
- Luke Cox
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
This is literally what it is. Goofball isn't even trying to hide this. Grudgecode at its finest.Steelpoint wrote:a literal 'I ded pls nerf' change.
On a related note, what's with coderbus' hateboner for grab intent?
- CPTANT
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Grab intent must have been so overused, it left entire stations dead in its path.Luke Cox wrote:This is literally what it is. Goofball isn't even trying to hide this. Grudgecode at its finest.Steelpoint wrote:a literal 'I ded pls nerf' change.
On a related note, what's with coderbus' hateboner for grab intent?
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
I was once aggressive choked across like half the station once before they finally killed me. Honestly I found it really funny, bring back the pain.
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- Oldman Robustin
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Stuff like this comes around routinely to destroy whatever iota of faith I'd slowly built up for coderbus. Meme PR, large amounts of opposition, gets merged within 48 hours without even getting a controversial tag.
I just look at the PR page some days and feel like giving up, I tried to focus my opposition on the "borderline" PR's that are bad but have enough support to get merged if someone doesn't speak up. Then I ignore meme PR's like this that I'm certain will get closed, only to see them merged a day later.
I just look at the PR page some days and feel like giving up, I tried to focus my opposition on the "borderline" PR's that are bad but have enough support to get merged if someone doesn't speak up. Then I ignore meme PR's like this that I'm certain will get closed, only to see them merged a day later.
- ShadowDimentio
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- Gamarr
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
It's almost like they are purposefully sabotaging sometimes when shit like this pops up and is allowed to go through despite its stupidity (and vitriolic player response, earned in this case). Grabs were useful, and not for choking, but those are all gone now too with this nerf shit.Oldman Robustin wrote:Stuff like this comes around routinely to destroy whatever iota of faith I'd slowly built up for coderbus. Meme PR, large amounts of opposition, gets merged within 48 hours without even getting a controversial tag.
Don't burn yourself out, CJS.
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
It already got halfway reverted, chill.
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- iamgoofball
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
i have the right to put up PRs
i've already supported the de-nerf
the only serious problem I had with grabs was being unable to escape them, PK's PR made it so grabs are 2good again but you can actually escape again
it's about 5 to 6 years old at this point
pretty much no one touches grab code
it's laggy as fuck(we had people telling stories in the nerf PR about how they got grabbed by someone, ran off, and then suddenly teleported back into the person's neck grab)
the code is broken in many ways
see: resisting out of grabs has been broken for 4+ years according to the old guard players(most of them thought it was a feature despite their being like 80-100+ lines dedicated to escaping grabs
and finally, the killer:
We have Pull. Pull code is new. Pull code is actually nice. Pull code isn't doing everything manually. If we can recreate all grab uses with pull, we can kill grabcode and make it actually useful.
i've already supported the de-nerf
the only serious problem I had with grabs was being unable to escape them, PK's PR made it so grabs are 2good again but you can actually escape again
Alright, so here's the deal with grab code:Luke Cox wrote:This is literally what it is. Goofball isn't even trying to hide this. Grudgecode at its finest.Steelpoint wrote:a literal 'I ded pls nerf' change.
On a related note, what's with coderbus' hateboner for grab intent?
it's about 5 to 6 years old at this point
pretty much no one touches grab code
it's laggy as fuck(we had people telling stories in the nerf PR about how they got grabbed by someone, ran off, and then suddenly teleported back into the person's neck grab)
the code is broken in many ways
see: resisting out of grabs has been broken for 4+ years according to the old guard players(most of them thought it was a feature despite their being like 80-100+ lines dedicated to escaping grabs
and finally, the killer:
We have Pull. Pull code is new. Pull code is actually nice. Pull code isn't doing everything manually. If we can recreate all grab uses with pull, we can kill grabcode and make it actually useful.
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Speaking of shitty prs, the Neurotoxin nerf disguised as a tweak https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/16404. Literally why.
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- PKPenguin321
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
1. will never ever be used in combat due to requiring precise mouse movements in otherwise generally spam-clicky combatKor wrote:We have a great alternative already. Click/drag is far better in most situations.
The tricky thing to replace is mob throws.
2. upgrading grabs with click+drag will be janky as fuck with no UI feedback
3. click+drag is already used for stripping
just make it function the way it already does but clean up the code if it's such as issue
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Pretty much the above.
You can grab someone mid combat with spam clicking, where as pull does not.
I don't even know how you intend to replace upgraded grabs/throws with pull.
Why can like, grab code not just be written or something, but then, if you're intended to actually give pull all of grabs functionality, that's basically what has to happen anyway...
You can grab someone mid combat with spam clicking, where as pull does not.
I don't even know how you intend to replace upgraded grabs/throws with pull.
Why can like, grab code not just be written or something, but then, if you're intended to actually give pull all of grabs functionality, that's basically what has to happen anyway...
- MisterPerson
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
>give a list of reasonsMisterPerson wrote:There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.
>"There's literally no reason"
thanks MisterReadingcomprehension
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
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- Luke Cox
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Comparing grab to pull is a total false equivalency and you know it. Pulling is for moving shit, grab is for combat.MisterPerson wrote:There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.
Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Glad that didn't get merged, it would've made the first six units of either chemical useless and would've taken about 30 seconds for them to actually do anything useful.Zilenan91 wrote:Speaking of shitty prs, the Neurotoxin nerf disguised as a tweak https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/16404. Literally why.
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