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There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.Saltball's Grab Nerf
- MisterPerson
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
>give a list of reasonsMisterPerson wrote:There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.
>"There's literally no reason"
thanks MisterReadingcomprehension
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
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- Luke Cox
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Comparing grab to pull is a total false equivalency and you know it. Pulling is for moving shit, grab is for combat.MisterPerson wrote:There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.
Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Glad that didn't get merged, it would've made the first six units of either chemical useless and would've taken about 30 seconds for them to actually do anything useful.Zilenan91 wrote:Speaking of shitty prs, the Neurotoxin nerf disguised as a tweak https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/16404. Literally why.
- Super Aggro Crag
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
people like pull because it lets you move people faster. Pull doesn't let you choke or table people, and tabling people is 90 percent of byond unarmed combat
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
>golem tasked to kick zoey out
>zoey is literally just running into a wall, not dodging or pushing me away
>cannot get a chokehold because they resist out of an aggressive grab instantly, its a chore to even table them
good job
>zoey is literally just running into a wall, not dodging or pushing me away
>cannot get a chokehold because they resist out of an aggressive grab instantly, its a chore to even table them
good job
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Grabbing provides a much more clear interface for what's going on. It shows that you connected, it tells you who you connected to, and it makes it really easy to upgrade it (just press a button).
Pulling is much less clear: either my ctrl key doesn't always work (unlikely) or byond doesn't always register it, because I know I've had situations where I've clicked to pull something, walked away, and then realised it wasn't properly triggered. It's not as obviously easy to upgrade (no pressing z, I probably need to pull their sprite to mine if grab is fully replaced with the system, which would take twice as long). Grab is also unambiguous, you can only grab people. I can pull anything, and often if there's an invisible overlay then it's quite easy to pull the wrong thing and have to move to spot it (whereas in grabs, that item's easy to drop immediately).
These are all very small differences, but in the context of combat, they mean a lot. Pulling provides much worse feedback and is ever so slightly more fiddly.
And why the hell did grabbing need to be possible to resist out of, anyway? Moving to get out was the whole point. If you couldn't move, you were in a confined space, and having grabs being better in confined areas was the point of not having a resist option.
Pulling is much less clear: either my ctrl key doesn't always work (unlikely) or byond doesn't always register it, because I know I've had situations where I've clicked to pull something, walked away, and then realised it wasn't properly triggered. It's not as obviously easy to upgrade (no pressing z, I probably need to pull their sprite to mine if grab is fully replaced with the system, which would take twice as long). Grab is also unambiguous, you can only grab people. I can pull anything, and often if there's an invisible overlay then it's quite easy to pull the wrong thing and have to move to spot it (whereas in grabs, that item's easy to drop immediately).
These are all very small differences, but in the context of combat, they mean a lot. Pulling provides much worse feedback and is ever so slightly more fiddly.
And why the hell did grabbing need to be possible to resist out of, anyway? Moving to get out was the whole point. If you couldn't move, you were in a confined space, and having grabs being better in confined areas was the point of not having a resist option.
- Luke Cox
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
I mean, what's the issue with grab as it exists? It's only really used for humanoid to humanoid combat anyways, and it functions as intended. If it's such a pain in the ass, just don't use it for anything new.
- Lumbermancer
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
So no one honestly thinks it was too easy to table people before?
- Super Aggro Crag
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds
Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
And you could run around with table parts and slap them down instantly.Super Aggro Crag wrote:if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds
- Lumbermancer
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
I said too easy, not easy. Personally I could hardly pull it off because of ping pong, but avoiding it was possible only with resist spam.Super Aggro Crag wrote:if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
>not installing a turbo script to turn the resist hotkey into a toggle that spams while activeLumbermancer wrote:I said too easy, not easy. Personally I could hardly pull it off because of ping pong, but avoiding it was possible only with resist spam.Super Aggro Crag wrote:if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds
have you tried getting good?
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Reported for cheating.
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
There is literally no reason to have both. food is generally more well liked than electricity.MisterPerson wrote:There's literally no reason to have both. Pulling is generally more well liked.
There is no comparison. Grab does shit that pull does not. The ONLY thing where pull does something that grab also does (and does it better) is.... pulling people. WEW LAD.
- Luke Cox
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Can anybody refute the following: Grab is intended for combat, pull is intended for moving stuff
- TechnoAlchemist
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Pull has its place in combat, for moving shit, and grab has its place in combat for grappling with people.
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Wew, it's almost as if pull is good for pulling, and grab is good for grabbing!
I mean, hell, I can appreciate that grab code is shit or whatever, but we had/had loads of shitcode in the game, why are people trying to utterly remove it when pull simply is not an adequate substitute for very significant situations?
Replacing grab for shit like putting someone in a disposal chute or whatever is fine, but for combat uses, no one has proposed how it would be adequately replaced.
I mean, hell, I can appreciate that grab code is shit or whatever, but we had/had loads of shitcode in the game, why are people trying to utterly remove it when pull simply is not an adequate substitute for very significant situations?
Replacing grab for shit like putting someone in a disposal chute or whatever is fine, but for combat uses, no one has proposed how it would be adequately replaced.
- iamgoofball
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
You do realize that by "remove grab" we mean "make pull do everything grab does and potentially just make the grab intent do pull shit" right
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
But how would you do that intuitively, pulling is really fucking hard if not impossible to do in the middle of combat because it doesn't slow the other guy down and requires ctrl and click rather than just clicking
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Please re-read my post
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Yeah, and pull is just not intuitive for anything but pulling people. It is absolutely not something you can do in combat.
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- iamgoofball
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
iamgoofball wrote:You do realize that by "remove grab" we mean "make pull do everything grab does and potentially just make the grab intent do pull shit" right
- DemonFiren
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Which means, for all intents and purposes, that the two are switched (making grab useless for combat because it only pulls you and pulls are easy to escape from, and making pull useless for combat because ctrl-click memes), or that you're very bad at wording sentences.
- Bluespace
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
there was no reason to nerf grab.
the table stun isn't even enough time to cuff someone.
and if you're worried about being tabled, don't stand by tables.
the table stun isn't even enough time to cuff someone.
and if you're worried about being tabled, don't stand by tables.
Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
People's reading comprehension in this thread is terrible.
I hope your all get failure marks from school.
I hope your all get failure marks from school.
- iamgoofball
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Malkevin wrote:People's reading comprehension in this thread is terrible.
I hope your all get failure marks from school.
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Running through maint yakkity saxing around BAM toss a table and the guy can't chase you anymore, then charge him later when he isn't expecting it, stunglove him, tabled for life and steal all his shit before dumping him in maint.Malkevin wrote:And you could run around with table parts and slap them down instantly.Super Aggro Crag wrote:if you think it was easy to table people before you weren't here for the glory days of tabling when it was a 2 click operation that stunned for 30 seconds
Someone should run a server on the old code that stuff was great.
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Still not even at the limit after 8 fucking years.
The evil holoparasite user I can't believe its not DIO and his holoparasite I can't believe its not Skub have been defeated by the Spacedust Crusaders, but what has been taken from the station can never be returned.
OOC: TheGel: Literally a guy in a suit with a shuttle full of xenos. That's a doozy
Still not even at the limit after 8 fucking years.
Spoiler:
OOC: TheGel: Literally a guy in a suit with a shuttle full of xenos. That's a doozy
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
That's called 'rewriting grab', not removing it.iamgoofball wrote:Malkevin wrote:People's reading comprehension in this thread is terrible.
I hope your all get failure marks from school.
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
goof's lying
it's going away
it's going away
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Roll all of pulls functionality into passive grab yes/yes?
The most excessive signature on /tg/station13.
Still not even at the limit after 8 fucking years.
The evil holoparasite user I can't believe its not DIO and his holoparasite I can't believe its not Skub have been defeated by the Spacedust Crusaders, but what has been taken from the station can never be returned.
OOC: TheGel: Literally a guy in a suit with a shuttle full of xenos. That's a doozy
Still not even at the limit after 8 fucking years.
Spoiler:
OOC: TheGel: Literally a guy in a suit with a shuttle full of xenos. That's a doozy
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
This change is still shit(even after the last PR buffing a bit)
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- Yakumo_Chen
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
Grab text is small again and it's hard to tell when you're grabbed again until its too late because the small red text blends in with everything else.
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Saltball's Grab Nerf
grab text was never big at all, goof just made it bold instead of italic (and i never touched the grab text, only the values for breaking out, upgrading grabs, etc)Yakumo_Chen wrote:Grab text is small again and it's hard to tell when you're grabbed again until its too late because the small red text blends in with everything else.
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
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