TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
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TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
Please leave feedback thanks.
- TechnoAlchemist
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:39 am
- Byond Username: TechnoAlchemist
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- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:02 pm
- Byond Username: Man_Shroom
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
Has good taste in music and likes Watch the Stove
Reminds me of a younger, more lazy Antonkr
Reminds me of a younger, more lazy Antonkr
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
Tried to help him in Asay with a confusing fight earlier.
He was initially hostile to my suggestions, kind of a "what are you smoking? are you crazy?" attitude. When I suggested that it was perfectly fine to mass-produce Meth as a chemist, he said he'd job ban me if I ever did that. He later apologized and was much more polite later on.
Thought he was a fullmin because he had access to all the buttons.
Jumped the gun multiple times in investigating the incident. Didn't finish reading the VV log and missed a couple big details about what had happened. He argued with the person who had originally asked for help for well over 10 minutes and I never felt he was quite right on our policy. The guy being accused never even crit someone, though he was a little out of line, but nothing worse than badly wounding a coworker in an intra-office argument, but Sawu was all over this guy like he'd just released the engine.
Im glad he improved his attitude near the end, but at this stage he's the kind of guy I'd wouldn't want to have answering my ahelps while playing. I think someone ironing out specifics about our Rule #1 policy and escalation stuff would be helpful.
He was initially hostile to my suggestions, kind of a "what are you smoking? are you crazy?" attitude. When I suggested that it was perfectly fine to mass-produce Meth as a chemist, he said he'd job ban me if I ever did that. He later apologized and was much more polite later on.
Thought he was a fullmin because he had access to all the buttons.
Jumped the gun multiple times in investigating the incident. Didn't finish reading the VV log and missed a couple big details about what had happened. He argued with the person who had originally asked for help for well over 10 minutes and I never felt he was quite right on our policy. The guy being accused never even crit someone, though he was a little out of line, but nothing worse than badly wounding a coworker in an intra-office argument, but Sawu was all over this guy like he'd just released the engine.
Im glad he improved his attitude near the end, but at this stage he's the kind of guy I'd wouldn't want to have answering my ahelps while playing. I think someone ironing out specifics about our Rule #1 policy and escalation stuff would be helpful.
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- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:59 am
- Byond Username: Sawucalls
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
I appreciate the reply, but you were the one who told me he was put in crit, and while I admit I missed stuff in the VV log, it wasn't because I didn't finish reading it.Oldman Robustin wrote:Tried to help him in Asay with a confusing fight earlier.
He was initially hostile to my suggestions, kind of a "what are you smoking? are you crazy?" attitude. When I suggested that it was perfectly fine to mass-produce Meth as a chemist, he said he'd job ban me if I ever did that. He later apologized and was much more polite later on.
Thought he was a fullmin because he had access to all the buttons.
Jumped the gun multiple times in investigating the incident. Didn't finish reading the VV log and missed a couple big details about what had happened. He argued with the person who had originally asked for help for well over 10 minutes and I never felt he was quite right on our policy. The guy being accused never even crit someone, though he was a little out of line, but nothing worse than badly wounding a coworker in an intra-office argument, but Sawu was all over this guy like he'd just released the engine.
Im glad he improved his attitude near the end, but at this stage he's the kind of guy I'd wouldn't want to have answering my ahelps while playing. I think someone ironing out specifics about our Rule #1 policy and escalation stuff would be helpful.
The incident was resolved and you're painting a lot of it out to be much worse than it was.
I don't really feel its very appropriate to be making stuff up for the pure sake I disagreed with you, especially considering I admitted fault in the situation.
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
I told you they were *nearly* put into crit, 6hp, if you really want to settle it I can dig it up in the logs. The entire ahelp was made unnecessarily contentious because you repeatedly missed what people were telling you and doing incomplete reviews of the logs before jumping onto someone, first you're ready to ban the CMO because they killed the chemist who was stabbing his coworker over some meth, then when I inform you that you missed the entire stabbing incident, you do a 180 and start revving up your bans for the chemist who ahelped you despite the fact they didn't violate the rules either. Sometimes people act stupid, shit gets escalated, and the stupid people get dunked... that's all that happened there.sawukoa wrote:I appreciate the reply, but you were the one who told me he was put in crit, and while I admit I missed stuff in the VV log, it wasn't because I didn't finish reading it.Oldman Robustin wrote:Tried to help him in Asay with a confusing fight earlier.
He was initially hostile to my suggestions, kind of a "what are you smoking? are you crazy?" attitude. When I suggested that it was perfectly fine to mass-produce Meth as a chemist, he said he'd job ban me if I ever did that. He later apologized and was much more polite later on.
Thought he was a fullmin because he had access to all the buttons.
Jumped the gun multiple times in investigating the incident. Didn't finish reading the VV log and missed a couple big details about what had happened. He argued with the person who had originally asked for help for well over 10 minutes and I never felt he was quite right on our policy. The guy being accused never even crit someone, though he was a little out of line, but nothing worse than badly wounding a coworker in an intra-office argument, but Sawu was all over this guy like he'd just released the engine.
Im glad he improved his attitude near the end, but at this stage he's the kind of guy I'd wouldn't want to have answering my ahelps while playing. I think someone ironing out specifics about our Rule #1 policy and escalation stuff would be helpful.
The incident was resolved and you're painting a lot of it out to be much worse than it was.
I don't really feel its very appropriate to be making stuff up for the pure sake I disagreed with you, especially considering I admitted fault in the situation.
A better approach for you, and any admin, is to consult others first when dealing with a confusing ahelp. Don't be a bloodhound and start gnawing on someone's leg the moment you catch the scent of ~RULE VIOLATION~.
- NikNakFlak
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:08 pm
- Byond Username: NikNakflak
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
Logs
It looks like a clusterfuck of confusion from both sides. The thing that sticks out to me the most is
[19:02:58]ADMIN: HELP: Tetracobalt/(Douglas Cobalt): I'm pretty sure the CMO wasn't in the right in killing me after I was trying to give medical treatment to the other chemist who while I did beat up, attacked me after I dumped his meth. - heard by 5 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[19:03:19]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Tetracobalt/(Douglas Cobalt): Do you remember the names of the people involved?
[19:03:59]ADMIN: PM: ForcefulCJS/(Oldman Robustin)->Tetracobalt/(Douglas Cobalt): So you fucked with medbay personnel, attacked them when they went after you, then the CMO stepped in and murdered you?
Why did you PM that guy when Sawu was already handling it and trying to get the full story and downright accuse the dude of shit before doing a single bit of any kind of investigating at all? Why PM him at all when sawu obviously had started the investigation? Sure, helping Sawu investigate by pointing out stuff he may have missed is greatly appreciated but you also just contributed to the frustration and confusion of that whole incident. If you're going to accuse sawu of "jumping the gun" and "being a bloodhound", try not being a huge shit eating hypocrite while you do it. In the end, I probably would have left it IC. The only guy who adminhelped was the one who got dunked because he was trying to stop the other dude from making meth which is fine and then communication just went out from there with his boss trying to stop him. Either way, he got cloned but ghosted so who cares? It looks like it was handled badly, but not because sawu is "a bad admin" but because he started to investigate something and you not only jumped down his throat but all over his investigation too. Lots of toe stepping. But this is just my opinion.
Spoiler:
[19:02:58]ADMIN: HELP: Tetracobalt/(Douglas Cobalt): I'm pretty sure the CMO wasn't in the right in killing me after I was trying to give medical treatment to the other chemist who while I did beat up, attacked me after I dumped his meth. - heard by 5 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[19:03:19]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Tetracobalt/(Douglas Cobalt): Do you remember the names of the people involved?
[19:03:59]ADMIN: PM: ForcefulCJS/(Oldman Robustin)->Tetracobalt/(Douglas Cobalt): So you fucked with medbay personnel, attacked them when they went after you, then the CMO stepped in and murdered you?
Why did you PM that guy when Sawu was already handling it and trying to get the full story and downright accuse the dude of shit before doing a single bit of any kind of investigating at all? Why PM him at all when sawu obviously had started the investigation? Sure, helping Sawu investigate by pointing out stuff he may have missed is greatly appreciated but you also just contributed to the frustration and confusion of that whole incident. If you're going to accuse sawu of "jumping the gun" and "being a bloodhound", try not being a huge shit eating hypocrite while you do it. In the end, I probably would have left it IC. The only guy who adminhelped was the one who got dunked because he was trying to stop the other dude from making meth which is fine and then communication just went out from there with his boss trying to stop him. Either way, he got cloned but ghosted so who cares? It looks like it was handled badly, but not because sawu is "a bad admin" but because he started to investigate something and you not only jumped down his throat but all over his investigation too. Lots of toe stepping. But this is just my opinion.
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
[19:04:55]ADMIN: ASAY: ForcefulCJS/(Oldman Robustin) : yea, why does that matter though, the victim was medbay and that gives the CMO high ground to fuck him upsawukoa wrote:
I appreciate the reply, but you were the one who told me he was put in crit, and while I admit I missed stuff in the VV log, it wasn't because I didn't finish reading it.
The incident was resolved and you're painting a lot of it out to be much worse than it was.
I don't really feel its very appropriate to be making stuff up for the pure sake I disagreed with you, especially considering I admitted fault in the situation.
[19:05:22]ADMIN: ASAY: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard) : where the fuck are you getting your rules from
...
[19:07:38]ADMIN: ASAY: ForcefulCJS/(Oldman Robustin) : if I were a chemist and someone destroyed what I had been making over a sizable period of time
[19:07:57]ADMIN: ASAY: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard) : if you were a chemist and you were making meth instead of medicine when people need medicine, i'd job ban you
...
[19:13:15]ADMIN: ASAY: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard) : there was no face stabbing robustin
...
[19:13:55]ADMIN: ASAY: ForcefulCJS/(Oldman Robustin) : about 6 shard attacks
[19:14:15]ADMIN: ASAY: ForcefulCJS/(Oldman Robustin) : sorry I stopped reading, he actually got the other chemist down to 6 life
...
[19:14:27]ADMIN: ASAY: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard) : i didn't see that part
...
[19:14:58]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Tetracobalt/(Douglas Cobalt): We've reviewed the logs, and according to them, you tried to crit the other chemist with a shard?
[19:16:01]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Tetracobalt/(Douglas Cobalt): Critting someone with a shard is not appropriate escalation, especially when you started the incident, it's considered ban-baiting or inciting violence.
..
[19:27:13]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Tetracobalt/(Douglas Cobalt): You still instigated a fight. (Last PM on the subject, over 20 minutes after it started)
I don't like log diving Sawu, but if you're going to accuse me of lying, I'm going to sort it out.
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
Click spoiler if you'd like to read my short novel that explains, point by point, why NikNak is 100% wrong here and is out of line for trying to waylay me in someone else's trial thread. Otherwise, my thoughts on Sawu are summed up in the prior 2 posts.NikNakFlak wrote: It looks like a clusterfuck of confusion from both sides. The thing that sticks out to me the most is
[19:02:58]ADMIN: HELP: Tetracobalt/(Douglas Cobalt): I'm pretty sure the CMO wasn't in the right in killing me after I was trying to give medical treatment to the other chemist who while I did beat up, attacked me after I dumped his meth. - heard by 5 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[19:03:19]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Tetracobalt/(Douglas Cobalt): Do you remember the names of the people involved?
[19:03:59]ADMIN: PM: ForcefulCJS/(Oldman Robustin)->Tetracobalt/(Douglas Cobalt): So you fucked with medbay personnel, attacked them when they went after you, then the CMO stepped in and murdered you?
Why did you PM that guy when Sawu was already handling it and trying to get the full story and downright accuse the dude of shit before doing a single bit of any kind of investigating at all? Why PM him at all when sawu obviously had started the investigation? Sure, helping Sawu investigate by pointing out stuff he may have missed is greatly appreciated but you also just contributed to the frustration and confusion of that whole incident. If you're going to accuse sawu of "jumping the gun" and "being a bloodhound", try not being a huge shit eating hypocrite while you do it. In the end, I probably would have left it IC. The only guy who adminhelped was the one who got dunked because he was trying to stop the other dude from making meth which is fine and then communication just went out from there with his boss trying to stop him. Either way, he got cloned but ghosted so who cares? It looks like it was handled badly, but not because sawu is "a bad admin" but because he started to investigate something and you not only jumped down his throat but all over his investigation too. Lots of toe stepping. But this is just my opinion.
Spoiler:
Last edited by Oldman Robustin on Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
I don wan no trahble.TechnoAlchemist wrote:Y'all are wild
Seriously. Between Sawu claiming I made stuff up and then getting blindsided by Niknak, of course I have to dig through the logs and vindicate myself.
- NikNakFlak
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:08 pm
- Byond Username: NikNakflak
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
Reading your essays is extremely painful. Everytime I have to argue with you, I lose interest because to do so, I have to read a 10 page essay.
The adminhelp came in and one minute later you tossed out that statement. If you can read logs in a minute, sure whatever but it always helps to get verbal sides of the story. Being right in the end is fine but your statement wasn't even completely accurate. "Fuck with personnel" is the not the same as throwing someone's drugs away because he's not doing his job well. Doesn't really matter either way but really, you are just being a cunt about the whole thing. A tip for the future though, from a log person myself, pull the entire logs like I did or else it's kind of cherry picking. The full situation presented first always gives a clearer story. And yea, I do dislike you. You're an asshole. A decent admin, but an asshole none the less.
The adminhelp came in and one minute later you tossed out that statement. If you can read logs in a minute, sure whatever but it always helps to get verbal sides of the story. Being right in the end is fine but your statement wasn't even completely accurate. "Fuck with personnel" is the not the same as throwing someone's drugs away because he's not doing his job well. Doesn't really matter either way but really, you are just being a cunt about the whole thing. A tip for the future though, from a log person myself, pull the entire logs like I did or else it's kind of cherry picking. The full situation presented first always gives a clearer story. And yea, I do dislike you. You're an asshole. A decent admin, but an asshole none the less.
- Wyzack
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:32 pm
- Byond Username: Wyzack
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
Can you guys please move this shitfest elsewhere, this is about Sawu's trialminship
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
Caleb Robinson laughs.
Arthur Thomson catches fire!
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tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
EngamerAzari's real number one fangirl <3Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.
certified good poster
- Sometinyprick
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:24 pm
- Byond Username: STP
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
I haven't seen much off you but then again I'm in a totally different timezone. Looking at what Robustin posted you did jump the gun but you admitted it was a mistake and everyone makes mistakes tbh. Only other thing I can say is you were pretty ok when you were a player and I never had any issues with you.
i play leo bonhart, feel free to grief me
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
I pulled the full logs and got ready to post them, but saw you already did and realized it would be dump to respost them.NikNakFlak wrote:Reading your essays is extremely painful. Everytime I have to argue with you, I lose interest because to do so, I have to read a 10 page essay.
The adminhelp came in and one minute later you tossed out that statement. If you can read logs in a minute, sure whatever but it always helps to get verbal sides of the story. Being right in the end is fine but your statement wasn't even completely accurate. "Fuck with personnel" is the not the same as throwing someone's drugs away because he's not doing his job well. Doesn't really matter either way but really, you are just being a cunt about the whole thing. A tip for the future though, from a log person myself, pull the entire logs like I did or else it's kind of cherry picking. The full situation presented first always gives a clearer story. And yea, I do dislike you. You're an asshole. A decent admin, but an asshole none the less.
It didn't take that long to sort this out, "Halp CMO killed me and I dindu nuffin' to him" ---> VV --->See CMO killing him ---> Scroll up ---> See the shitshow that he initiated and escalated which led to his aforementioned death.
This was incident #98439 of someone starting a fight, losing, then ahelping for intervention. Only mistake I made was not noticing that Sawu had asked them a short question about who was involved before I made my reply.
For Sawu's part, like I said in my first post, if he learns the policy better he'd probably be a decent admin, but statements like "I'd job ban you if you made meth when the station needs medicine" just make me roll my eyes and wonder what other enlightened rulings he might make if he doesn't get a better feel of what behavior deserves admin intervention. It's a fundamental rule here that you have no affirmative obligation to help anyone (unless you're AI or the reason that person needs help in the first place). As long as you're not breaking the rules in some other way, no admin should ever care if the botanists grow weed instead of pods or the chemist makes meth instead of brute patches. This is well settled policy that a fullmin should not be confused about, as a trialmin he's entitled to learn but he flat out refused to accept my interpretation or hear my reasoning out - it wasn't until I pointed out that he missed a critical part of the logs that he cooled off and realized maybe he's not omniscient. Not much more to say.
Edit:
2 bonus questions. Is this his final review? HG usually clarifies that in the OP, and, Is there any reason he never got an admin feedback thread?
Last edited by Oldman Robustin on Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:59 am
- Byond Username: Sawucalls
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
Oldman Robustin wrote:I pulled the full logs and got ready to post them, but saw you already did and realized it would be dump to respost them.NikNakFlak wrote:Reading your essays is extremely painful. Everytime I have to argue with you, I lose interest because to do so, I have to read a 10 page essay.
The adminhelp came in and one minute later you tossed out that statement. If you can read logs in a minute, sure whatever but it always helps to get verbal sides of the story. Being right in the end is fine but your statement wasn't even completely accurate. "Fuck with personnel" is the not the same as throwing someone's drugs away because he's not doing his job well. Doesn't really matter either way but really, you are just being a cunt about the whole thing. A tip for the future though, from a log person myself, pull the entire logs like I did or else it's kind of cherry picking. The full situation presented first always gives a clearer story. And yea, I do dislike you. You're an asshole. A decent admin, but an asshole none the less.
It didn't take that long to sort this out, "Halp CMO killed me and I dindu nuffin' to him" ---> VV --->See CMO killing him ---> Scroll up ---> See the shitshow that he initiated and escalated which led to his aforementioned death.
This was incident #98439 of someone starting a fight, losing, then ahelping for intervention. Only mistake I made was not noticing that Sawu had asked them a short question about who was involved before I made my reply.
For Sawu's part, like I said in my first post, if he learns the policy better he'd probably be a decent admin, but statements like "I'd job ban you if you made meth when the station needs medicine" just make me roll my eyes and wonder what other enlightened rulings he might make if he doesn't get a better feel of what behavior deserves admin intervention. It's a fundamental rule here that you have no affirmative obligation to help anyone (unless you're AI or the reason that person needs help in the first place). As long as you're not breaking the rules in some other way, no admin should ever care if the botanists grow weed instead of pods or the chemist makes meth instead of brute patches. This is well settled policy that a fullmin should not be confused about, as a trialmin he's entitled to learn but he flat out refused to accept my interpretation or hear my reasoning out - it wasn't until I pointed out that he missed a critical part of the logs that he cooled off and realized maybe he's not omniscient. Not much more to say.
Edit:
2 bonus questions. Is this his final review? HG usually clarifies that in the OP, and, Is there any reason he never got an admin feedback thread?
I'm sorry I gave a bad impression, and I do admit in that situation I was a little forward with the content of my ahelps.
But as previously said, everyone makes mistakes and it's better to have learned from a mistake than to have never learned at all.
In the future I will err on the side of a higher admin's advice if I'm even partially unsure of the situation.
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
I believe you and if we're doing the whole final vote thing, I'd say extend the trialmemeship to see how you develop.sawukoa wrote:
I'm sorry I gave a bad impression, and I do admit in that situation I was a little forward with the content of my ahelps.
But as previously said, everyone makes mistakes and it's better to have learned from a mistake than to have never learned at all.
In the future I will err on the side of a higher admin's advice if I'm even partially unsure of the situation.
- Xhagi
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- Location: Cat Place
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
I've graduated law school years ago. I read a lot and type fast, which is why "a short summary" to me looks like "a hardcover novel" to some others.
I don't repeat myself though, not usually at least, I make sure each sentence serves its own purpose. I'm deliberate in my writing because I'd rather people misinterpret my writing because they're lazy and didn't read it all (which lets me call them out *cough* Niknak) than because I made it short and filled with assumptions about what people would know/infer/understand about the situation (which makes me look like an ass if I try to correct them). If it looks like I'm repeating myself its because one of us was sloppy either in reading or writing, and I'm not a particularly sloppy writer.
Anyway, those two questions I asked are still relevant: Sawu has no feedback thread and it's not clear if this is Sawu's promotion thread.
I don't repeat myself though, not usually at least, I make sure each sentence serves its own purpose. I'm deliberate in my writing because I'd rather people misinterpret my writing because they're lazy and didn't read it all (which lets me call them out *cough* Niknak) than because I made it short and filled with assumptions about what people would know/infer/understand about the situation (which makes me look like an ass if I try to correct them). If it looks like I'm repeating myself its because one of us was sloppy either in reading or writing, and I'm not a particularly sloppy writer.
Anyway, those two questions I asked are still relevant: Sawu has no feedback thread and it's not clear if this is Sawu's promotion thread.
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- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:34 pm
- Byond Username: Shadowlight213
- Github Username: Shadowlight213
Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
Is a good admin from what I've seen. Also knows how to code pretty good.
I vote promote.
Edit:
Actually, I haven't seen them on too often. Changing vote to extend.
I vote promote.
Edit:
Actually, I haven't seen them on too often. Changing vote to extend.
- lollerderby
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:24 pm
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Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
Stop posting things that have nothing to do with sawu thanks.
On-topic, extend.
On-topic, extend.
DEAD: Tim Ebow says, ">rylie talking shit and not actually doing anything again"
DEAD: Tim Ebow says, "What a twist"
DEAD: Tim Ebow says, "What a twist"
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- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:34 pm
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Re: TRIALMIN REVIEW: Sawu
Sawu's trial was extended, yet someone keeps locking this and promoting them with no log.
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