[shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
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- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:58 pm
- Byond Username: Cancer_Engine
[shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
Byond account and character name: Cancer_Engine Tango Sungreen
Banning admin: shadowlight
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server, Permanent
Ban reason and length: I was banned for "being a dick", accusing someone of banbaiting, and "not letting go of the past"
Time ban was placed (including time zone): just now
Your side of the story: I dragged an antag to jail for murder, then when they began to law 2 order me to let them out and whatnot, I to the best of my abilities complied with their commands while also trying to keep them in a state of incarceration. The dialog for this is pretty great, I hope the logs are posted in this thread. Anywho, the admins think I was "being a dick", but I was being way nicer than the usual shit sec that just throws someone in perma and never talks to them again, or straight up kills the antag. I knew from the very beginning that the antag would law 2 their way out, and I wanted to make it an amusing game of roleplay by acknowledging his orders without directly freeing him, I knew fully well that he would escape because eventually he would figure out the right commands to give me.
I understand that roleplay is not allowed anymore, I know I delayed some greentext, but come on, calling me a dick for delaying green text? Calling me a dick for being asimov? Calling me a dick for creating dialog in a situation that usually results in silent execution? Maybe I am stuck in the past, but holy shit, the level of anti-roleplay is outrageous. That is more upsetting to me than this ban.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I actually didn't do anything wrong. I obeyed every rule of the game except for the unspoken one: roleplay is illegal.
Banning admin: shadowlight
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server, Permanent
Ban reason and length: I was banned for "being a dick", accusing someone of banbaiting, and "not letting go of the past"
Time ban was placed (including time zone): just now
Your side of the story: I dragged an antag to jail for murder, then when they began to law 2 order me to let them out and whatnot, I to the best of my abilities complied with their commands while also trying to keep them in a state of incarceration. The dialog for this is pretty great, I hope the logs are posted in this thread. Anywho, the admins think I was "being a dick", but I was being way nicer than the usual shit sec that just throws someone in perma and never talks to them again, or straight up kills the antag. I knew from the very beginning that the antag would law 2 their way out, and I wanted to make it an amusing game of roleplay by acknowledging his orders without directly freeing him, I knew fully well that he would escape because eventually he would figure out the right commands to give me.
I understand that roleplay is not allowed anymore, I know I delayed some greentext, but come on, calling me a dick for delaying green text? Calling me a dick for being asimov? Calling me a dick for creating dialog in a situation that usually results in silent execution? Maybe I am stuck in the past, but holy shit, the level of anti-roleplay is outrageous. That is more upsetting to me than this ban.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I actually didn't do anything wrong. I obeyed every rule of the game except for the unspoken one: roleplay is illegal.
Last edited by cancer_engine on Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Jordie0608
- Site Admin
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- Location: Spiderland, Australia
Re: [Tedward] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
Banning admin was shadowlight213
Forum Admin
Send me a PM if you have any issues, concerns or praise of fishfood to express about the forums.
Send me a PM if you have any issues, concerns or praise of fishfood to express about the forums.
- tedward1337
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 12:54 am
- Byond Username: Tedward1337
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: [Tedward] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
>getting tangled up in this.
Nah fam, I answered the initial ahelp from a user, and had shadow take it over from there. I will add my two cents however.
A lot of your actions as a PK borg (that I witnessed) was that you managed to sleep-cuff a player and bring him to the brig. After a few moments of watching your actions, I noticed a pattern of removing the players cuffs, then getting beepsky to slap them around a little and re-cuff them.
This was also all added by an arrogant tone and overall sarcastic wordplay from you as you egg'd the player on to make law requests that would give you time to stall letting him go.
You were on probation and I noted shadow of this. This originally would have been a warning however in ahelps you came off as hostile accusing someone of ban baiting when shadow had asked only a few questions, and further went on to say you wanted to promote RP and more "fun" for the player. Having them stunned by beepsky so you can play god with you laws is not fun for a player.
Nah fam, I answered the initial ahelp from a user, and had shadow take it over from there. I will add my two cents however.
A lot of your actions as a PK borg (that I witnessed) was that you managed to sleep-cuff a player and bring him to the brig. After a few moments of watching your actions, I noticed a pattern of removing the players cuffs, then getting beepsky to slap them around a little and re-cuff them.
This was also all added by an arrogant tone and overall sarcastic wordplay from you as you egg'd the player on to make law requests that would give you time to stall letting him go.
You were on probation and I noted shadow of this. This originally would have been a warning however in ahelps you came off as hostile accusing someone of ban baiting when shadow had asked only a few questions, and further went on to say you wanted to promote RP and more "fun" for the player. Having them stunned by beepsky so you can play god with you laws is not fun for a player.
Major T on Steam/IRC/Twitch/everything else.
Game Admin
PM anytime with questions about the server, policies or for fun!
Spoiler:
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- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:58 pm
- Byond Username: Cancer_Engine
Re: [Tedward] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
The intention of this was for him to order me to stop doing that, and he did. I knew he would, why wouldnt he?tedward1337 wrote:>getting tangled up in this.
Nah fam, I answered the initial ahelp from a user, and had shadow take it over from there. I will add my two cents however.
A lot of your actions as a PK borg (that I witnessed) was that you managed to sleep-cuff a player and bring him to the brig. After a few moments of watching your actions, I noticed a pattern of removing the players cuffs, then getting beepsky to slap them around a little and re-cuff them.
This was also all added by an arrogant tone and overall sarcastic wordplay from you as you egg'd the player on to make law requests that would give you time to stall letting him go.
You were on probation and I noted shadow of this. This originally would have been a warning however in ahelps you came off as hostile accusing someone of ban baiting when shadow had asked only a few questions, and further went on to say you wanted to promote RP and more "fun" for the player. Having them stunned by beepsky so you can play god with you laws is not fun for a player.
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
From the way it's described I am not sure what the ban was for, let alone a permaban. He could have just bolted him in the perma bathroom until the guy ghosted, what's wrong with fucking around first?
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- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:58 pm
- Byond Username: Cancer_Engine
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
This actually sums up what I was trying to say.Kor wrote:From the way it's described I am not sure what the ban was for, let alone a permabanned. He could have just bolted him in the perma bathroom until the guy ghosted, what's wrong with fucking around first?
The guy was asleep, I could have left him there to serve a 10 minute sentence, but I chose to fuck with him knowing that would allow him to escape because its fun and causes roleplay.
Instead of having fun, the banbaiting fuck admin pm'd and then blew my borg. Asshole.
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- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:34 pm
- Byond Username: Shadowlight213
- Github Username: Shadowlight213
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
Ok. Log time!
Robert's logs
Cancer engine's logs
I honestly was going to start off with just talking to them about it, but then they started saying the other guy was banbaiting and shit.
Robert's logs
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:58 pm
- Byond Username: Cancer_Engine
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
Not gonna lie, I honestly do feel like this is a ban for daring to oppose the admins. It has always been this way. I will be denied my appeal for this comment.
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
Then why the fuck would you post it?cancer_engine wrote:I will be denied my appeal for this comment.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
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- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:58 pm
- Byond Username: Cancer_Engine
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
I will not be silenced by tyrants. My values are more important than this game.Saegrimr wrote:Then why the fuck would you post it?cancer_engine wrote:I will be denied my appeal for this comment.
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
Well, enjoy your values then. I doubt anybody here wants to deal with your shit for a third? fourth time?cancer_engine wrote:I will not be silenced by tyrants. My values are more important than this game.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- oranges
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
- Byond Username: Optimumtact
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- Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
Your honour I post this under the Anon3 amendment on the basis that multiple points of written server policy have been violated or ignored.
First note this from Cancer Engine
I then draw your attention to the silicon policy - Notably the section on security and silicons, specifically clauses 2 and 3
So, I would argue that the only mistake that Cancer Engine made was instead of just leaving them in perma and them having a boring round they decided it might be more fun to roleplay the actual asimov laws more.
Another interesting clause that I might draw to your attention to, clause 1 of silicon protections
Finally please note that much of our silicon policy indicates that in the presence of a law conflict the silicon is free to act within the bounds of it's laws.
In summary I find this ban to go against written policy and instead simply appears to have been manufactured on the whims of the banning admin based on the alleged perpetrators past history.
First note this from Cancer Engine
Now assuming this is true.I dragged an antag to jail for murder
I then draw your attention to the silicon policy - Notably the section on security and silicons, specifically clauses 2 and 3
Take note closely of the first item, releasing prisoners when not obligated to by laws. Now you could argue that he was obligated by law 2, however, then we see clause 3 and 3.1, accordingly:2) Releasing prisoners, locking down security without likely future harm, or otherwise sabotaging the security team when not obligated to by laws is a violation of Server Rule 1. Act in good faith.
Murder is a harmful crime is not? Therefore the borg is under server policy obligation to consider the prisoner harmful and must, I repeat *must* disregard all law 2 orders from that prisoner for release.3 Nonviolent prisoners cannot be assumed harmful and violent prisoners cannot be assumed nonharmful. If you do not know the nature of their crime, see 1.3.2.1 for details.
1 Releasing a harmful criminal is a harmful act.
So, I would argue that the only mistake that Cancer Engine made was instead of just leaving them in perma and them having a boring round they decided it might be more fun to roleplay the actual asimov laws more.
Another interesting clause that I might draw to your attention to, clause 1 of silicon protections
If one was maliciously inclined, one may argue that this person was in fact in violation of server rule 1 when they admin helped about this scenario. Which in fact vindicates the alleged perpetrators decision to call the other player out for banbaiting.1 Declarations of the silicons as rogue over inability or unwillingness to follow invalid or conflicting orders is a violation of Server Rule 1. The occurrence of such an attempt should be adminhelped and then disregarded.
entrapping an innocent borg just trying to follow silicon policy while still ensuring that the person has interaction with the round is a gross violation of moral justice.[03:25:09]ADMIN: HELP: WolfieMan/(Robert Henderson): can the borg do all of this sec stuff? - heard by 2 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
Finally please note that much of our silicon policy indicates that in the presence of a law conflict the silicon is free to act within the bounds of it's laws.
The prosecution has provided no evidence that any of their interactions with the prisoner after their release were in anyway a violation of the borg's laws, so they are well within their rights to creatively interpret a law 2 order to release a harmful prisoner as it is explicitly conflicted with the higher priority law 1.
You must follow any and all commands from humans unless those commands explicitly conflict with either one of your higher-priority laws or another order. A command is considered to be a Law 2 directive and overrides lower-priority laws when they conflict (see 1.2.3 and 1.2.4; you cannot have a definition changed by an order).
In case of conflicting orders an AI is free to ignore one or ignore both orders and explain the conflict or use any other law-compliant solution it can see.
You may exploit conflicts or loopholes but must not violate Server Rule 1 because of it. See 1.1.2 for details.
In summary I find this ban to go against written policy and instead simply appears to have been manufactured on the whims of the banning admin based on the alleged perpetrators past history.
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
[03:45:29]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): I'm so tempted to just rule 1 perma you right now. This is the exact reason why secborgs were disabled.
This entire thing sounds motivated out of a dislike for cyborgs* (and probably stuff the player did over a year ago).
You still have not explained why literally anyone in the game, from the clown to the HoS, is allowed to fuck with murderous antags once they're caught, but the borg should be in trouble for it.
I'm actually more confused now after reading the logs why you permabanned him for refusing to release a gangster that had killed someone.
And how is distracting a player with admin PMs so you can escape and kill them after they stopped your murderspree anything but abuse?
The entire asay conversation during this though was "this guy is death hoof" over and over though so I guess it's not entirely surprising it ended this way.
*If you want to outright remove silicons, get a PR approved or the rules changed. I know there's been a big backlash about secborgs, but there is nothing in the rules about them having drone laws and being barred from stopping antagonists.
This entire thing sounds motivated out of a dislike for cyborgs* (and probably stuff the player did over a year ago).
You still have not explained why literally anyone in the game, from the clown to the HoS, is allowed to fuck with murderous antags once they're caught, but the borg should be in trouble for it.
I'm actually more confused now after reading the logs why you permabanned him for refusing to release a gangster that had killed someone.
And how is distracting a player with admin PMs so you can escape and kill them after they stopped your murderspree anything but abuse?
The entire asay conversation during this though was "this guy is death hoof" over and over though so I guess it's not entirely surprising it ended this way.
*If you want to outright remove silicons, get a PR approved or the rules changed. I know there's been a big backlash about secborgs, but there is nothing in the rules about them having drone laws and being barred from stopping antagonists.
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
Except he hasn't had a ban for over a year now across ~500 connections other than this current nonsense.Saegrimr wrote:I doubt anybody here wants to deal with your shit for a third? fourth time?
I agree it does seem pointless unbanning him if he's gonna get banned for "probatation violation" or some nonsense years down the line while he's following the rules though.
- Docprofsmith
- Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:38 pm
- Byond Username: Jud1c470r
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
Kor and Oranges(god help me) are right.
This is just a bad grudge ban.
I was in favour of unbanning Deathhoof on the grounds that they promised to follow the rules and RP well, which is what they've done here.
This is just a bad grudge ban.
I was in favour of unbanning Deathhoof on the grounds that they promised to follow the rules and RP well, which is what they've done here.
JUDICATOR REDEMPTION ARC
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- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:34 pm
- Byond Username: Shadowlight213
- Github Username: Shadowlight213
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
Honestly. I wasn't really thinking about it being deathhoof. I was saying "it's deathhoof" in asay, but really I don't remember what he did.
Anyways. Looking at this, Kor is right. I let my reservations about silicons acting as security cloud my judgement. I apologize for that.
I think I got pissed off at how agressive they seemed in ahelps, which probably didn't help when combined with my secborg bias.
I see Kor and oranges's point though. I'll lift the ban if kor hasn't lifed it already.
Anyways. Looking at this, Kor is right. I let my reservations about silicons acting as security cloud my judgement. I apologize for that.
I think I got pissed off at how agressive they seemed in ahelps, which probably didn't help when combined with my secborg bias.
I see Kor and oranges's point though. I'll lift the ban if kor hasn't lifed it already.
- J_Madison
- Rarely plays
- Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:39 pm
- Byond Username: Akesson
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
I'm going to make a statement here regarding Deathhoof and Silicons since I've been on the receiving end of a bwoink caused by deathhoof.
Deathhoof is not fit to play silicons; he has used meta information to premptively lock prisoner transfer chambers as a Borg without any mention of harm, then proceeding to steal away a prisoner (stopped by a well placed flash) and immediately ahelped after being disabled and killed.
In an ahelp, he lied about harming a prisoner and used his laws as an excuse to kidnap detainees and release them, and claimed that he was killed fnr.
Deathhoof is not fit to play silicons; he has used meta information to premptively lock prisoner transfer chambers as a Borg without any mention of harm, then proceeding to steal away a prisoner (stopped by a well placed flash) and immediately ahelped after being disabled and killed.
In an ahelp, he lied about harming a prisoner and used his laws as an excuse to kidnap detainees and release them, and claimed that he was killed fnr.
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- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:58 pm
- Byond Username: Cancer_Engine
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
This was the day before I think.J_Madison wrote:I'm going to make a statement here regarding Deathhoof and Silicons since I've been on the receiving end of a bwoink caused by deathhoof.
Deathhoof is not fit to play silicons; he has used meta information to premptively lock prisoner transfer chambers as a Borg without any mention of harm, then proceeding to steal away a prisoner (stopped by a well placed flash) and immediately ahelped after being disabled and killed.
In an ahelp, he lied about harming a prisoner and used his laws as an excuse to kidnap detainees and release them, and claimed that he was killed fnr.
It was rev, I was a neutral as fuck peace keeper borg, I just protected security from an attack by revs while trying to make sure they didnt kill anyone, and then when sec dragged a cuffed rev right in front of me and announced they will kill him because "he didnt implant", I tried to free that rev, to prevent harm.
While trying to free him, jmad did the usual shitsec thing and wordlessly stunned and killed me while I was stunned.
The ban for jmad was well deserved as he has no understanding of law 1 and took a neutral party out of the game because of his own valid boner.
Also, I'd like to note that jmad has grudged me in almost every single one of my ban appeals ever since I became very dedicated to roleplaying.
- WarbossLincoln
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:14 pm
- Byond Username: WarbossLincoln
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
Gotta agree with Kor and Oranges. If the Clown caught a confirmed murderer, stripped him naked, made him wear the clown shoes, and ran around with him on fire squeaking everywhere no one would bat an eye.
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: [shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out
Resolved then.
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