/tg/Station 13

IcePacks · Post by **IcePacks** » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:09 pm #223810

Bottom post of the previous page:

nobody fucking cares

Limey · Post by **Limey** » Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:50 pm #223832

her cooldowns need to be adjusted with a lot

IcePacks · Post by **IcePacks** » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:12 am #223853

i won't disagree that her cooldowns need to be checked but i like the idea of sombra mixing up the game

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:28 am #223867

so who's gonna be the better spychecker

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:09 pm #223931

Sombra is way overpowered right now but she hasn't even hit the PTR yet. They'll probably tune the numbers down before she goes to the live servers.

Probably.

Hopefully?

Limey · Post by **Limey** » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:22 pm #223934

they should if they use the ptr for what it should be used for

Lumbermancer · Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:49 pm

Why no female has a normal haircut in this game?

TechnoAlchemist · Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:46 am

its the future asshole

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:37 am #224103

She is at most slightly overtuned. I suspect she will always be meta though simply due to her nature as a hard counter to very meta heroes right now.

I suspect that she will have her intended effect of making it so Rein and Lucio are not autolocks because teams that depend too much on their ilk will be shut down, while increasing the number of characters who can easily deal with her or otherwise counter her, such as Torb, Mei, Soldier, D.va and Bastion, and to a lesser extent McCree, Genji, and Widowmaker.

Basically any character able to spray a wide area and who can counter her a little, so Genji kinda goes even with her, while people able to apply massive burst without abilities counter her a lot. Also of note: Soldier and McCree do not care about her invisibility when she ultis. Characters who depend mostly on weapons and who can fight on the move make her miserable.

Also it is important to note her method of in fight sustain is very hit or miss and makes her extremely vulnerable after using it, unlike Tracer, so it isn't like she is a better version of Tracer. If you watch gameplay of her she is very vulnerable if focused down for an attack character and has little ability to recover from a bad situation if people catch on to what she is trying to do, so if you can't out think your opponent as her she will just get picked off and make it a 5v6.

I strongly suspect with the changes to scrap making Torb overall more viable she will actually be pretty well controlled, because everything in Torb's kit counters everything in Sombras. Torb is her strongest counter because hacking doesn't do much to Torb and Torb can easily out fight her. Most of his kit's power is in his gun, his turret is hackable in theory but not in practice because Sombra won't easily be able to hack it without being shot by it which ends her hack, it prevents her from cloaking mid fight, and Torb's abilities are all pre-fight abilities that make it much harder to burst him down due to gaining armor. Combined with the fact he can easily spray an area if he notices Sombra coming in and can hunt her down to her health pack and finish her off in one hit with his shotgun even after she fully heals. His armor also doesn't care about her ulti and helps protect teammates who were hacked.

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:13 am #224114

All I've seen on her is that she locks down a healthkit for her own use

Can't Junkrat just slap a trap on there and wait? Healthkit? Sure. Eat bombs.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:38 am #224115

Still no word on symm buffs. Sad. But yeah I look forward junking this spai.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:57 am #224117

Symm is getting a confirmed rework and may be getting a temporary buff, as leaving her so bad isn't healthy on maps where Symm is required. That said she is also like one of the highest winrate hero when she is picked because the situations she is good in, generally first point defense, are situations she is stupidly broken in.

Junkrat can trap Sombra's teleporter but overall is ability dependent and struggles to decloak her. She can easily alpha him down from an ambush.

Limey · Post by **Limey** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:55 pm #224296

1v1 is hella fun but it's a shame you can't play against your friends. it's not available as an option in custom game either.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:14 am #224486

I don't see Sombra as a hard counter to Junkrat given that his trap will already be in place for it to do anything, and unless her ability stops him from pressing his remote satchel button/destroys the bomb outright she's not stopping that. Plus his huge AOE and direct damage shots alone can wipe out most 200hp level heroes before they can get to him, and if there is one class that excels in damaging another class that they can't directly see, it's Junkrat.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:55 am #224496

Sombra can in fact stop Junkrat from detonating his bomb, which reduces a lot of his alpha.

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:52 pm #224677

Yeah, fuck that then.

Hitting one direct hit is easy enough. But after that they'll probably not have the time to land another. Especially if he gets surprised

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:52 pm #225559

Indeed, she is a moderatley strong junkrat counter. Overwatch mostly lacks hard counters, there are few scenarios with no outplay potential and most involve roadhog.

IcePacks · Post by **IcePacks** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:49 pm #225569

sombra hardcounter my rein + ana push reeeeeee nerf

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:59 am #225748

She doesn't actually hard counter that. He isn't even a strong counter to that unless she has ultimate.

Hack doesn't disable nanoboost, rein's swings, or his massive armor pool. While Sombra counters Rein shielding the entire team, she can't easily pull it off and she doesn't disable nanoboost with her ulti or hacking. What she can do is hack to prevent the ability from going off but it isn't realistic. If Sombra attempts to 'hard counter' that combo and singlehandedly shut you down what actually ends up happening is Rein and Ana double team her and destroy her, giving the attacking team a 6v5 advantage and basically securing the point for your combo. Sombra might kill the Ana maybe, but it is unlikely as she has absolutely pathetic damage, and she can't really do anything about the Rein at all because her gun is hard countered by armor and unlike Tracer she can't even outplay a raging tank.

A hard counter is something that completely prevents a given character or tactic from working. For example, in most RTS games, flying units 'hard counter' melee units because in no situation can the flying unit lose that fight. If even a moderate skill gap overcomes the counter, such as a Widowmaker landing a headshot and then rifling a Roadhog down while dodging the hook in order to burst past his heal, it isn't a hard counter.

In Overwatch there are very very very few hard counters in even 1v1 battles, simply because most counter moves require a misplay to land, such as Genji vs Bastion or McCree vs Tracer. At low level play Genji is considered a Bastion counter, and McCree a Tracer counter, but at higher end play the reverse is actually true because there is no theoretical situation where the counter ability works.

The exception, as anyone who is playing on the PTR right now and doing 3v3 duels, is Roadhog, who hard counters many of the squishier members of the cast who can't easily burst him down, and who struggle to even kill him while he is healing and vulnerable. If you get down to a 1v1 footsie battle with a Roadhog you almost always will lose, but in most other situations it is soft counters ahoy.

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:02 pm #225907

As a tip for those roadhog vs roadhog battles:
If it comes down to a 1v1 and you both are at full health, the hog that hooks first loses. Because the hooked hog survives the first shot, shoots back, hooks in turn, and then uses the small stun period to get his own shot in before the other hog can. And that shot will usually kill.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:23 am #226102

Both hogs just dealt equal damage to each other in that scenario, as long as the hooking roadhog was able to shoot correctly. Remember the shot after the hook is free, so if your opponent roadhog fires into you before they hook, you just did two shots to their head plus a hook. Basically, the first hooker has the damage lead unless they fuck up really bad.

In fact the hooker probably has a huge advantage if they did an alt-fire hook combo, so even if they wiffed and screwed up landing a shot before the hook landed due to lag or something that would secure the kill, they probably still win.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:29 am #226103

The headshot is basically the key part here, if RNGesus and hit detection smile upon you that 225 damage hit becomes 450 and its a 2 shot drop.Otherwise at pointblank ranges its 3 shots to kill without figuring in the e heal.The trick is to learn how far you secondary goes before exploding, as it has the same potential damage after it detonates meaning you can still get those 450 headshots at 10m if your aim is just right.Hit them in 9m or less with the secondary though and its a flat 50 damage.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:34 am #226111

Yeah basically in Hog Vs Hog it is about understanding your right click and landing headshots. Headshots always deal double damage and are not RNG, but the damage of your gun is. So you always want to land a right click first, and honestly you should be learning to combo your hook with a right click anyway.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:51 pm #226125

Roadhogs damage is random because of the spread pattern, it doesn't always follow the logic you think it would and if hit detection is being wonky then you lose up to half your damage because the pelets passed through air and not a hitbox. Otherwise it's entirely dependant on range traveled of the pellets for you to get high damage, which is why taking pot shots as Roadhog is never a good idea if you can be sure that at least half your pellets will hit within your 5-9 damage range rather than your 2-5 range.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:57 pm #226129

I think that may just be personal lag man. You can and should always be landing headshots. If the pros can do it consistently that means it isn't luck. You should be able to win a 1v1 roadhog fight 100% of the time as long as you don't screw up your inputs even without animation canceling the first shot. While the spread is semi-random it will never be random enough to swing the TTK in a 1v1 against you if you get the first hook. It just doesn't bloom out big enough for even 1/4th of your shot to miss the head. Even if it was, roadhog's damage works out so that even if most of the long range shot hits the body you still insta-kill with your combo after.

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:50 pm #226294

as a healer main, i have decided on a new, absolutely ironclad philosophy for me playing overwatch:

if you are not on the objective, i WILL NOT heal you. NO exceptions. period. end of story.

i am absolutely sick and tired of my teammates getting cocky and overextending halfway up the map when they have a number advantage, because they always, ALWAYS lose it and cause us to lose a lead we could have easily kept if they had STAYED ON THE OBJECTIVE. i hereby do not give a single flying fuck if i could have saved the team by being there, i am tired of babysitting reaper mains that think its an awesome idea to constantly go for le ebin flanks and 1v4's and then cry when they get fucked up the ass. my teams will either play around healers or they can have fun in the respawn screen, and if i have to eat a bunch more losses than normal to adhere to this, then i am 100% fine with that.

tl;dr:
[youtube]wKcHMJlE7OM[/youtube]

Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:30 pm

Just started playing again, and I'm actually pretty damn good at Pharah. I went 94 eliminations ~70 final blows and 20 deaths in a long 5 round game on Lijang tower

Spoiler:

, and in general I've been golding like everything every game I've played. I even got ranked 2498 in comp, not too bad for someone who got 1200 mailing mccree last season, no?

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:56 am #226326

Deitus wrote:(...) i am tired of babysitting reaper mains that think its an awesome idea to constantly go for le ebin flanks and 1v4's and then cry when they get fucked up the ass. my teams will either play around healers or they can have fun in the respawn screen, and if i have to eat a bunch more losses than normal to adhere to this, then i am 100% fine with that.

They are shit. If they're going to be flanking, they need to know the healthpack locations and they need to use those. They need to know their mobility and the map layout to escape when outnumbered and when to not engage. Coming back to your team's healer means you're not flanking, and thus not a threat to the enemy team. And as such you may as well be dead and waiting to respawn in that case.
I suppose the healer gets a slight amount of ult charge off the healing, but they're going to be healing anyway so they're not missing out on that unless nothing is happening at all.

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:07 am #226327

Shap wrote:Just started playing again, and I'm actually pretty damn good at Pharah. I went 94 eliminations ~70 final blows and 20 deaths in a long 5 round game on Lijang tower
Spoiler:
that we ended up losing in a heartbreaker in overtime
, and in general I've been golding like everything every game I've played. I even got ranked 2498 in comp, not too bad for someone who got 1200 mailing mccree last season, no?

p-play with me shaps kun, im around the same level

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:20 pm #226518

There is actually a reason to tactically overpush, but it generally is done when you notice the enemy is trickling or if you notice people staging their group up shortly outside the point.

Basically if you know there are only 3 enemies right outside the objective it is a very good idea to rush out as 6 and crush them so their next spawn wave has no one to reinforce and it becomes a 3-3 trickle.

The other reason is if the choke is a bit past the objective. Nepal Sanctum and the first point of Volskaya Industries are good examples of when you would want to push after taking the objective.

Other than that pushing just gives spawn advantage to the enemy. How bad that is depends on the map.

As for shitty reaper players, there are two styles to reaper and good players know when to use either. Too many people play him as a hardcore flanker when really they should be using Genji. He works better on soft flanks, pushing into the side of the main team rather than trying to skulk about taking out the supports.

The other thing Reaper is used for is tank slaying. He is pretty amazing at taking out tanks, and if Reaper is within the deathball he basically can't die as well, giving you a huge advantage if the fighting is up close.

In general people overvalue hard flanks. Until Sombra hits, almost certianly after, it is almost always better to be at the main fight, even if you are flanking. People overuse McCree for this as well while in reality relatively immobile hard hitting attack heroes really want to be fighting alongside the tanks, helping ward off enemy divers and punishing people using the tank's abilities. McCree-Reinhardt is actually the strongest combo in the game due to how insane the duo's uptime and kill potential is when they combo abilities.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:27 pm #226523

Deitus, it doesn't matter if your team mates are shit. Not healing them isn't going to make them behave, it's just going to make them die faster. What you're doing by not healing them sounds like they just get wiped and then the entire enemy team comes for you and you get slaughtered, which is arguably just as bad as dying with your team mates when they over-extend. Consider playing with a set group. Don't even have to be friends. Play enough quickplay and you'll find people to play with.

tl;dr
get fucking good.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:45 am #226660

You've managed to make niknak seem reasonable for once. Feel ashamed.

Not doing your job or role to punish specific players on your team is dumb, either rage quit like a pleb or put your back into it and carry your team so they fucking learn.

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:34 pm #226708

Davidchan wrote:You've managed to make niknak seem reasonable for once. Feel ashamed.

Not doing your job or role to punish specific players on your team is dumb, either rage quit like a pleb or put your back into it and carry your team so they fucking learn.

>carrying as a healer

NikNakFlak wrote:Deitus, it doesn't matter if your team mates are shit. Not healing them isn't going to make them behave, it's just going to make them die faster. What you're doing by not healing them sounds like they just get wiped and then the entire enemy team comes for you and you get slaughtered, which is arguably just as bad as dying with your team mates when they over-extend. Consider playing with a set group. Don't even have to be friends. Play enough quickplay and you'll find people to play with.

tl;dr
get fucking good.

ive been playing for a long time now and i still havent really met anyone, i have a steam friend i sometimes duoqueue with but other than that eh.

the thing about pushing up is that if its cleaning up after a teamfight thats fine, but what i always see is that my teammates are like "wow we're doing great!" and stay by the enemy spawn/entrance routes. this inevitably leads to them eventually dying and then losing an easy advantage they could have kept. frustrating af mang

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:31 pm #226832

Good healers can carry. Ana is obvious, as her burst heal literally outheals most DPS characters right now and combined with smart ulti use you can help keep the team alive even pushed up, and she isn't bad in a scrap. Even if your allies wake up a sleeping target it is still about on par with a flashbang, and it can shut down some critical ultimates.

Mercy is harder, but good Mercy players carry just by being good at staying alive. You 'carry' by doing a big multi-res despite absorbing a lot of fire or by being totally hidden. Even a bunch of potatoes next to enemy spawn can win a fight with a 4 man res. If you get a big res and your team doesn't win the fight after it, you may as well switch off Merccy and try to carry yourself because nothing you do as healer can win you the game from that point as Mercy. Your value over Ana is purely from your res being an autowin, if it is not you are literally better off playing without a healer or switching to Zenyatta to carry as the healer.

Lucio and Zenyatta have the least ability to carry via heals but are the best at fighting anyway, and a good Lucio can legit just not die for multiple spawns. If you had the point, Lucio can make it so you never lose it. Zenyatta meanwhile borderline is a DPS, and if you are picking Zenyatta as your healer you better be damn confident in your ability to carry by DPS because that is literally why one picks him.

Overall while being pressed against the spawn is bad, if they hold off a few spawns they did their job just as well as holding the point. Fighting near the spawns may actually force the enemy to trickle more, but at the end of the day you vastly benefit more by supporting the team than not, because even if you eventually get pushed out any time you hold the point is better than nothing. If you are competent, and you should be because you crushed so hard your team felt good about moving up, you can retake the point again.

Basically as others pointed out, suck it up and just keep healing, your odds of winning are far greater and you can't force your team to change by withholding heals. Just ask them to play the point and if they don't do whatever you can to maximize your ranked score.

However if you care about solo carrying, my best advice is that you should get really good at Winston. Winston is consistently in the top 5 character list for pro-play, and he is also extremely potent at forcing you to win solo. His high health with good cleave damage and being impossible to peel means he can almost always just dumpster 2-3 people in a fight against uncoordinated teams, and even against the best deathballs he creates a huge disruption and can outplay many 2v1 or 3v1 situations. If you want to crush games solo, play Winston.

IcePacks · Post by **IcePacks** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:50 pm #237290

IrishWristWatch0 · Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:53 pm

Zenyatta is the anti meta. I've been mainimg zen and his discord combined with a coordinated team just rip apart tanks. Roadhog goes down like nothing.

IcePacks · Post by **IcePacks** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:55 pm #237293

is this ridiculously belated post about the meta a subtle nod at me necro-ing the thread

IrishWristWatch0 · Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:02 pm

IcePacks wrote:is this ridiculously belated post about the meta a subtle nod at me necro-ing the thread

Nah i just saw it in active and i just came off a 7 game win streak as zen

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:18 am #237350

IrishWristWatch0 wrote:
IcePacks wrote:is this ridiculously belated post about the meta a subtle nod at me necro-ing the thread
Nah i just saw it in active and i just came off a 7 game win streak as zen

yeah zen is not antimeta he's still meta

roadhog isn't meta

unless you're talking about 3v3 elimination. The metastrat there is Ana or Zenyatta, 76, and Roadhog.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:21 am #237356

Roadhog is highly meta even though he isn't played as a tank.

Zenyatta sees play vs the current triple tank but the sheer dominance of Ana-Lucio makes it hard for him and Mercy to get serious play rates.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:22 am #237731

There are people here who do not play Mercy and get Mercy POTGs.

SAD

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:20 am #238383

5 free lootboxes on Overwatch. Thanks to Christmas. Log in today to claim them

Alipheese · Post by **Alipheese** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:26 pm #279283

Insurecction thingie happening.
Who else plays often?

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:40 pm #279288

Oh, right
This exists

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:20 am #279763

I still play this. I main McCree, despite the fact that my aim is fucking garbage (20-35%), so I'm a very unhappy man.

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:06 pm #279827

Roadhog was fixed, but there was a period when he did this:
[youtube]hkDTNdDit1E[/youtube]

DrPillzRedux · Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:31 pm

I tried to play two days ago.

Forced 16:9 aspect ratio for people on ultrawide because muh wider fov advantage meme (even though competitive players play in 4:3)
Even in 16:9 FOV limit is still too low
Roadhog nerfed to uselessness
Dva melts like a fucking ice cream cone in summer heat

Shit game.

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:21 am #353721

CosmicScientist wrote:Someone shared this with me and I found it funny for sad reasons:
[youtube]8tLopqeL9s8[/youtube]

Yellow heals

Purple harms

Hand attacks

Coloured orb powers

Ultimate protects those affected from death
I expected them to steal characters from everywhere but one place...
Spoiler:
... themselves

consistent visual designs (yellow for heals, purple for debuffs) are just good game design

but she runs like naruto and her backstory isd literally "i was too edgy for everyone and no one undertsands me" so who cares

Post by **Armhulen** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:50 am #353724

Qbopper wrote:
CosmicScientist wrote:Someone shared this with me and I found it funny for sad reasons:
[youtube]8tLopqeL9s8[/youtube]

Yellow heals

Purple harms

Hand attacks

Coloured orb powers

Ultimate protects those affected from death
I expected them to steal characters from everywhere but one place...
Spoiler:
... themselves

consistent visual designs (yellow for heals, purple for debuffs) are just good game design

but she runs like naruto and her backstory isd literally "i was too edgy for everyone and no one undertsands me" so who cares

that's a large amount of the character backgrounds btw

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:00 pm #353765

unlocking humanity's full potential through artificial augmentations

GarlicBread · Post by **GarlicBread** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:41 pm #353774

DrPillzRedux wrote:I tried to play two days ago.

Forced 16:9 aspect ratio for people on ultrawide because muh wider fov advantage meme (even though competitive players play in 4:3)
Even in 16:9 FOV limit is still too low
Roadhog nerfed to uselessness
Dva melts like a fucking ice cream cone in summer heat

Shit game.

This makes me sad because I used to play awhile ago and mained DVA