Lavaland Update
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Lavaland Update
Inspired largely by the swarmer thing
-No megafauna spawn at round start.
-Tendrils spread corrupt fleshy floor tiles around them, and spawn evil looking gold grubs/worms, which go around slowly eating and corrupting the environment
-As they feed the tendril grows, spawning more monsters at higher stages. At max size, the tendril will spawn a boss or spread more tendrils.
-Much like the swarmers, the tendrils and their spawns will call for help from nearby mobs
-The tendrils will of course have bigger rewards the bigger (and more dangerous) you let them grow
-Killing enough max size tendrils (or enough bosses out of them?) would let you fight some super final boss (maybe with rewards that impact the next round, since it'd take the whole round to kill it anyway)
-There'd still be a handful of the classic mining mobs (goliath/watcher/legion) in the tunnels.
Lavaland would be less dangerous to start (no more dragons right outside the base) but would morph into something even more terrible as the round went on if you let the monsters grow out of control.
Also since I added easy ways to cheat and set baseturfs, I plan to put meta or box on a lavaland map, and have the enroaching tendrils outside the station/base walls be a long term threat.
So yeah, feedback or suggestions please.
-No megafauna spawn at round start.
-Tendrils spread corrupt fleshy floor tiles around them, and spawn evil looking gold grubs/worms, which go around slowly eating and corrupting the environment
-As they feed the tendril grows, spawning more monsters at higher stages. At max size, the tendril will spawn a boss or spread more tendrils.
-Much like the swarmers, the tendrils and their spawns will call for help from nearby mobs
-The tendrils will of course have bigger rewards the bigger (and more dangerous) you let them grow
-Killing enough max size tendrils (or enough bosses out of them?) would let you fight some super final boss (maybe with rewards that impact the next round, since it'd take the whole round to kill it anyway)
-There'd still be a handful of the classic mining mobs (goliath/watcher/legion) in the tunnels.
Lavaland would be less dangerous to start (no more dragons right outside the base) but would morph into something even more terrible as the round went on if you let the monsters grow out of control.
Also since I added easy ways to cheat and set baseturfs, I plan to put meta or box on a lavaland map, and have the enroaching tendrils outside the station/base walls be a long term threat.
So yeah, feedback or suggestions please.
- FantasticFwoosh
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 11:25 pm
- Byond Username: FantasticFwoosh
Re: Lavaland Update
I can go through this in a few very simply put points.
Against
For
Nice idea on paper, but doesn't really have a place in the actual current game experience i think.
Against
- Would require severely reducing the number of tendrils on lavaland and spreading them further apart, largely void of life - No thanks
- That and making people required to wait for this (corruption) mechanic probably wouldn't go so well on our short round scheme. - Nuh uh
- Faux infinitely respawning bugs with no describable loot drops which are probably aggressive and as trash as regular gold grubs & destroy the enviroment creating wide open areas of absolute darkness and empty content - Please no.
- Monsters accumulatively are TERRIBLE to fight, as our combat system can't support being hit by more than 1 high damage mob at once without literally TANKING it, making swarming monsters nightmarish - positively no thank you
For
- No megafauna immediately in your face to destroy you just by RNG bad placement
- Not so much item reliant progression (like the current path to 'endgame' dragon armour & boss weapons) / Though on the flipside that might not be true as weapons will progress via R&D or mining whatever to clear out more and more boss monsters
- The only point i utmost agree on is that you consulted us first rather than just going ahead and PR'ing and merging it anyway before anyone got a chance to comment.
Nice idea on paper, but doesn't really have a place in the actual current game experience i think.
Spoiler:
- Alipheese
- Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 12:56 pm
- Byond Username: Daturix
- Github Username: Daturix
Re: Lavaland Update
Im all fine for this besides the length thing. By the time the shuttles ready people are already calling the shuttle and bitching.
ALTERNATIVELY,
Make it do this all only on extended so there's more playtime / stuff to do over a longer period.
(Will probably update post when I think of more.)
ALTERNATIVELY,
Make it do this all only on extended so there's more playtime / stuff to do over a longer period.
(Will probably update post when I think of more.)
- D&B
- Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:23 am
- Byond Username: Repukan
- Location: *teleports behind you*
Re: Lavaland Update
Rounds don't last enough on either server to warrant over time growth.
It would be fine as an extended only mechanic but the main appeal of lavaland is the danger. With no opposition then we're just making it the asteroid with a non hard suit Atmos.
Monsters currently present make taking the normal tendrils a challenge already. Goliath tendrils are a battle of attrition, watchers are a danger when going to get the chest and closing in for the kill, and legions can quickly decimate someone if they don't keep the numbers in control.
If anything make tendrils drop crystals that can summon the megafauna when activated.
It would be fine as an extended only mechanic but the main appeal of lavaland is the danger. With no opposition then we're just making it the asteroid with a non hard suit Atmos.
Monsters currently present make taking the normal tendrils a challenge already. Goliath tendrils are a battle of attrition, watchers are a danger when going to get the chest and closing in for the kill, and legions can quickly decimate someone if they don't keep the numbers in control.
If anything make tendrils drop crystals that can summon the megafauna when activated.
Spoiler:
- Dagdammit
- Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:42 am
- Byond Username: Dagdammit
Re: Lavaland Update
Something I was already going to ask about related to lavaland compound was chopping the z-level up into a grid (maybe 4x4) of 'sectors'
I showed this to Kel the Oblivious to illustrate the state of comm & GPS signal quality at roundstart, but he really liked the idea that it could reflect some lavaland generation mechanics. Here's what he wrote in the discord chat:[3][X][X][X]
[2][3][X][X]
[1][2][3][X]
[c][1][2][3]
Zone 1: No tendrils, no megas, no exotic structures. Low mineral content. Local fauna still spawn normally.
Zone 2: Tendrils begin to appear, as do exotic structures. Low tendril count.
Zone 3: Megas, tendrils, and better exotic structures.
Zone EXTREME: Signalless megas, roving aggressive tendrils, strange new horrifying fauna!
Up to Zone Three, you can count on Old Mining still being... Mining
But once you get into the NEW zone... Oh.. Oh dear.
- Screemonster
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:23 pm
- Byond Username: Scree
Re: Lavaland Update
I must have missed this part about them 'cause I was totally wondering about call-to-arms behaviour for mobs. the use I had planned for it was an away mission or ruin with mostly-nonhostile borg drone kinda mobs that summon all the warrior variants in the area if the crew are dumb enough to go murderhobo on it.Kor wrote:-Much like the swarmers, the tendrils and their spawns will call for help from nearby mobs
- kevinz000
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:41 am
- Byond Username: Kevinz000
- Github Username: kevinz000
- Location: Dorm Room 3
Re: Lavaland Update
FUCKING YES.Kor wrote: Also since I added easy ways to cheat and set baseturfs, I plan to put meta or box on a lavaland map, and have the enroaching tendrils outside the station/base walls be a long term threat.
Local catgirl scratching post - Shezza
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
NSFW:
- letshavecake
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:43 am
- Byond Username: Letshavecake
Re: Lavaland Update
Swarms of regular enemies are already awful, destroying the environment on top of that just makes the problem worse
And you want the entirety of lavaland to be that
Well, parts of it sound nice, just gimp all of the mobs so one or two people can easily take on the enemy hordes with a moderately powerful melee weapon, or else you might as well just remove ghost roles too
And you want the entirety of lavaland to be that
Well, parts of it sound nice, just gimp all of the mobs so one or two people can easily take on the enemy hordes with a moderately powerful melee weapon, or else you might as well just remove ghost roles too
- Remie Richards
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:11 pm
- Byond Username: CrimsonVision
- Location: England, UK, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Known Universe
- Contact:
Re: Lavaland Update
The summon_backup() mechanic has existed for atleast a year I'd say.Screemonster wrote:I must have missed this part about them 'cause I was totally wondering about call-to-arms behaviour for mobs. the use I had planned for it was an away mission or ruin with mostly-nonhostile borg drone kinda mobs that summon all the warrior variants in the area if the crew are dumb enough to go murderhobo on it.Kor wrote:-Much like the swarmers, the tendrils and their spawns will call for help from nearby mobs
in the code there's a Syndicate Civilian who will run away and summon anything with a friendly faction to join it.
Which means if you had say, a Goliath with the syndicate faction, as a "pet" of sorts, it too would come to help (I had to make this mechanic optional for swarmers, otherwise the mining mobs would help the swarmers as opposed to just ignoring them)
私は完璧
- Screemonster
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:23 pm
- Byond Username: Scree
Re: Lavaland Update
Neat.
Suddenly visions of using this to summon mobs to a point RTS-style using cameras and so forth. We drone riggers now.
edit: holy shit I'd never really looked at mobcode until now, I didn't realise the proc would be that simple
Suddenly visions of using this to summon mobs to a point RTS-style using cameras and so forth. We drone riggers now.
edit: holy shit I'd never really looked at mobcode until now, I didn't realise the proc would be that simple
- Remie Richards
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:11 pm
- Byond Username: CrimsonVision
- Location: England, UK, Earth, Sol, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Known Universe
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Re: Lavaland Update
Screemonster wrote:Neat.
Suddenly visions of using this to summon mobs to a point RTS-style using cameras and so forth. We drone riggers now.
edit: holy shit I'd never really looked at mobcode until now, I didn't realise the proc would be that simple
Yep, summon_backup() is only for Hostile AI mobs, however the "walking to a point" as you say uses the Hostile AI proc Goto(), which is just a wrapper around the byond proc walk_to(), so it can technically be done on anything that can move (It starts a movement loop in the background, and is actually the reason AI Mecha pilots used to die and leave their mecha haunted and still moving, because that move loop was left running!)
Generally in the codebase we like nice neat reusable frameworks, Hostile/Simple AI is a bit poop in places but it's had some nice love recently (Speed ups, new functionality, etc.)
私は完璧
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: Lavaland Update
That's basically already a thing with blob spores.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
-
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: Lavaland Update
Guess this is trueRounds don't last enough on either server to warrant over time growth.
- imblyings
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:42 pm
- Byond Username: Ausops
- Location: >using suit sensors
Re: Lavaland Update
make them grow faster then :^)
or have a few tendrils grow faster to provide early opposition in a few directions while the rest grow at a normal speed
perhaps tendrils globally grow faster each time a tendril is killed and only slow down when a megafauna boss is killed
or have a few tendrils grow faster to provide early opposition in a few directions while the rest grow at a normal speed
perhaps tendrils globally grow faster each time a tendril is killed and only slow down when a megafauna boss is killed
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
- D&B
- Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:23 am
- Byond Username: Repukan
- Location: *teleports behind you*
Re: Lavaland Update
Another option would be to make tendrils spawned creatures move towards the mining outpost every certain amount of ticks.
Thus you incite miners to upgrade their tools with RnD in order to keep the hordes at bay
Thus you incite miners to upgrade their tools with RnD in order to keep the hordes at bay
Spoiler:
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- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:43 am
- Byond Username: Jembo
Re: Lavaland Update
Mining is super popular fast spreading tendrils would be cool. Or maybe make it so they can't spread over holywater? So if the station is low pop a chaplain could just spread about and keep the spread from getting out of control.
- Iatots
- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:17 pm
- Byond Username: Iatots
- Github Username: Iatots
Re: Lavaland Update
I like Dagdammint/Kel 's suggestion, get a grid of regions, with less dangerous or "younger" regions closer to the outpost, some moderately mature tendrils inbetween, and a core region with the necropolis gate and a guardian. On the infestation aspect, I too would like to avoid swarmers 2: fleshy voodoo: I'd like the infestation to convert walls or build structures, not outright dig into the rock, unless you can make it so worms don't start digging until all the tiles reachable by the tendril creep have been converted, at which point they could make a serpentine into a wall until the reach lava or more floor tiles.
- FantasticFwoosh
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 11:25 pm
- Byond Username: FantasticFwoosh
Re: Lavaland Update
Is just digging rocks not enough for you people? Where does the content bloat stop, at the simple statement of miners being resource collectors without also being adventurers/monster hunters like a goddamn RPG where you level up to end level gear then destroy the station because your stuff is better than WHATEVER the station could get normally? (plus to say you blew the station's budget to get the tools under pretense of digging) Its so obtuse by this point and Kor's attempt to make tendrils blatent 'evil corruption' antagonists does not help.
- A unnessecary and enviromentally destructive antagonist, symbolising the most combat driven suggestion i've ever heard where miners are going to be passing out from monsters hitting them left right and centre; because looking at swarmers who have the exact same suggested mechanics they are REALLY hard to fight with lasers - electrical shock melee's coming at you. It just becomes a running and collecting combat away mission where you're just there to collect cluttering loot.
D&B wrote: Monsters currently present make taking the normal tendrils a challenge already. Goliath tendrils are a battle of attrition, watchers are a danger when going to get the chest and closing in for the kill, and legions can quickly decimate someone if they don't keep the numbers in control.
- Monsters would have to nerfed into THE GROUND/radically changed and their drops made completely worthless to justify making them killable by the swarming behaviour. Imagine how terrible it'd be to play this solo (on lowpop with no other choice but to get minerals) being chainstunned by goliaths and the shit smashed out of you to become another legion to heed the distress call?
- How are we supposed to keep digging rocks and actually work with all this going on? Asteroid was pure, everyone started with pickaxes and the monsters were substantially hard but no more so than they needed to be in the dangerous atmosphere where if you went down into crit, you choked to death, with no way to take your suit off to save you at risk of dropping your air, armour & pressure protection. All the good stuff came from traitors/centcomm and R&D which got fed directly by mining, now miners can just go off and get their own better stuff, and use & abuse science before throwing them away when not needed.
Spoiler:
- TechnoAlchemist
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:39 am
- Byond Username: TechnoAlchemist
Re: Lavaland Update
Lavaland is good and you talk too much for someone with so little cognition.
- Grazyn
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:01 am
- Byond Username: Grazyn
Re: Lavaland Update
That would actually be great, lower z-level with more dangerous stuff, ruins and nasty mobs. Accessible only through chasms (but you get falling damage) and hellstairs (that maybe show on gps?), and chasms could be placed randomly in the upper z-level instead of being tendril-only to add another threat to careless miners
- Alipheese
- Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 12:56 pm
- Byond Username: Daturix
- Github Username: Daturix
Re: Lavaland Update
Had this idea for so longGrazyn wrote:That would actually be great, lower z-level with more dangerous stuff, ruins and nasty mobs. Accessible only through chasms (but you get falling damage) and hellstairs (that maybe show on gps?), and chasms could be placed randomly in the upper z-level instead of being tendril-only to add another threat to careless miners
Some item to prevent death from chasms and the underground portion of lavaland is where all megafauna live and the source of tendrils. The heart of lavaland.
Ie above ground is mining
Below is big shit.
-
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: Lavaland Update
Two entire z levels for 3 people would be way too much.Grazyn wrote:That would actually be great, lower z-level with more dangerous stuff, ruins and nasty mobs. Accessible only through chasms (but you get falling damage) and hellstairs (that maybe show on gps?), and chasms could be placed randomly in the upper z-level instead of being tendril-only to add another threat to careless miners
- Alipheese
- Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 12:56 pm
- Byond Username: Daturix
- Github Username: Daturix
Re: Lavaland Update
But Kor
Like 6 z levels of space.
THAT NO ONE USES.
Like 6 z levels of space.
THAT NO ONE USES.
- letshavecake
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:43 am
- Byond Username: Letshavecake
Re: Lavaland Update
Very often it's a lot more than just 3 peopleKor wrote: Two entire z levels for 3 people would be way too much.
- MimicFaux
- Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:49 pm
- Byond Username: MimicFaux
- Location: Spaced by Mass Driver
Re: Lavaland Update
The lower level doesn't need be the full 255x255. Treat it like an away mission and drop them into a smaller sized zone where the robust go to die.Kor wrote:Two entire z levels for 3 people would be way too much.
- Alipheese
- Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 12:56 pm
- Byond Username: Daturix
- Github Username: Daturix
Re: Lavaland Update
You fall into the inner core of lavaland. Where there's only 1 signal. The heart of lavaland. Large ass 3x3 tendril that spawns megafauna at random so any are possible (besides legion and hierophant) and that is the challenge. If the heart is destroyed. No tendrils next round. The loot? Only the gods know (headmins)MimicFaux wrote:The lower level doesn't need be the full 255x255. Treat it like an away mission and drop them into a smaller sized zone where the robust go to die.Kor wrote:Two entire z levels for 3 people would be way too much.
- D&B
- Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:23 am
- Byond Username: Repukan
- Location: *teleports behind you*
Re: Lavaland Update
That sounds too easily exploitable.
You could use a colossus as extra firepower.
You could use a colossus as extra firepower.
Spoiler:
- Dagdammit
- Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:42 am
- Byond Username: Dagdammit
Re: Lavaland Update
a lower z-level would get really interesting in combination with a boxstation-scale lavaland station, where it's possible to go underground and then tunnel up through the floor or something.
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