Improvised Weapons and what's so 'improvised' about them?

[Fragnostic]

Improvised weapons are things made on the fly, used for their job made on things found lying around. They are homemade and not meant to be reliable.

Things like the soda can IEDs, stubprods, cable restraints, and spears should ALL be a little tougher, but be less reliable.

For example, there could be a bigger blast from the IED, but have a chance of exploding immeadiately.
The stunprod could stun for longer, but a slight chance of not working or giving a stun-KO-electrical damage to the user.
The cable restraints could be a little easier to put on since you are just tightening them, but have a chance of just falling off immeadiately when the victim resists.
The spear, I feel, is fine as it is. (Clown threw a spear at me once and I had throw active from trying to throw a paper and I caught the spear and I hit him with it and it KOd him with that one hit so I fucked off lol)

Also, I'd like to hear about more improvised weapons, like welding tank signal assemblies, with chance to roast the user.
I'd like to see some sort of land mines, with a chance of exploding while arming.
Or antipersonnel airlock assemblies that spear someone attempting to enter(can't find a drawback on this one)

Anyway, I'd love to hear some creative improvised weaponry, I'll keep posting some ideas, but I had a TON.

[Arete]

An IED going off immediately is the difference between greentexting and spending the round as a ghost. Leaving things up to the RNG like that doesn't sound fun for either the antag or the crew.

How about sources of unreliability that still give the user a way out with skillful play? Maybe the size of the explosion/duration of the stun/duration of restraint could just have a larger random range.

[Steelpoint]

IED's don't kill people. I would support having IED's being unreliable, because they are Improvised Explosive Devices not a Military Grade Explosives.

Personally I don't really think we need more improvised weapons, not forgetting that you can use practically anything in game as a makeshift weapon.

In my opinion actual improvised weapons are really just something Assistants, Engineers, Scientists, whoever make at round start "just in case" and because it gives them a distinct advantage in combat.

[MisterPerson]

I don't think improv weaponry adds anything positive to the game. It just encourages vigilante behavior. The cablecuffs and stunprods are the worst offenders.

People make them at the beginning of the round "just in case" and that's fucking awful. "oh I sure hope the people I try to kill don't pull out a stunprod and 1-hit-kill me today". Gee that sounds fun for the antag.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

You could have a chance for things like stun prods that every time you use it it might come apart? As for IEDs it could have a chance of not blowing up at all.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

I don't think improv weaponry adds anything positive to the game. It just encourages vigilante behavior. The cablecuffs and stunprods are the worst offenders.

Yes. Cablecuffs should have VERY little resist time (like may be five seconds), because it's just a piece of cable. Stunprod should have a chance to shock the owner, because it's just a battery connected to wirecutters and all this on a metal rod. Frankly may be it should always shock people without insulated gloves.

IEDs (or more accurately firebombs) get randomized timer, do they not?

[MedicInDisquise]

As a security officer, improvised weapons really do help when you're cloned/looted and need something to get that offender fast. They're improvised, so yes they should be weaker, but make sure they're actually good at what they do.

For example, if we nerfed the cablecuff to dropping immediately after resisting, it would make cablecuffs REALLY ineffective at what they do unless you kept on stunning and wasting energy.

[Kelenius]

Stunrod runs out very quickly, and cablecuffs are removed in 30 seconds. They are already pretty weak.

[Miauw]

I think cablecuffs are fine as they are, they fill a niche that needs to be filled. If you can't cuff somebody to a chair in this game they will just disarm you, steal your gun and shoot you to death with it. People making them at roundstart "just in case" is fucking awful but that's not a problem inherent to the item. If you reduce the resist time to 5 seconds they will become completely useless.

[Fragnostic]

I think cablecuffs are fine as they are, they fill a niche that needs to be filled. If you can't cuff somebody to a chair in this game they will just disarm you, steal your gun and shoot you to death with it. People making them at roundstart "just in case" is fucking awful but that's not a problem inherent to the item. If you reduce the resist time to 5 seconds they will become completely useless.

Well, 15 seconds then? It's just cable, it's a miracle it even works.
And it takes like 3-4 IEDs to even crit someone, so what's the big deal with them having a chance of exploding immeadiately?
Stunprods should have a chance of shocking the owner, giving the stun to the user as well as moderate electrical damage. I mean, it's improvised and they're strapping their power source near the metal rods(a conductor) which they are holding.

And antags except revs have their own proffesional tools and abilities that allow them to complete their objectives. If they RELY on what really should be UNRELIABLE tools, then it's their fault if such a little thing causes them to hilariously backfire and fail.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

If you reduce the resist time to 5 seconds they will become completely useless.

They will be fine for transporting people. Right now they're basically handcuffs and the only time they are different is when you actually lose a prisoner.

[Scott]

Don't nerf the cable restraints.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Don't nerf the cable restraints.

Care to elaborate? Why not?

[Scott]

Because they're already perfect.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

...thanks for the valuable input

[Raven776]

I see stunprods being the worst offenders here. Cable cuffs are kind of a last minute thing that I make when I've got some guy getting telescopic batoned by the RD over and over and we need to figure out how to get him to stay on the ground until security gets there.

As to why the work? It's a rope with some knot. Why wouldn't they work?

[Steelpoint]

It might be interesting in seeing Cable Cuffs altered so that if left alone to resist for 10 seconds the person can break out. This means that Cable Cuffs are really something to keep a single person down and you have to continually baby sit them to prevent them from breaking out, as well as establishing a greater difference between the make shift cable cuffs and the proper hand cuffs.

[Scott]

That's already the case.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

As to why the work? It's a rope with some knot. Why wouldn't they work?

It's not a good-quality rope or anything, it's an electric cable.

[paprika]

I would love it if spears or stun prods could come apart and be less reliable. Firebombs exploding in your face would be nice, as it stands the firebombs aren't really dangerous to the maker like real firebombs would be.

[Steelpoint]

That's already the case.

Not really, it takes slightly less time to get out of Cable Cuffs but its still quite lengthy (About a minute or so last time I checked).

Personally I'm all for making improvised weapons more unreliable.

To be honest, the only way I can see more improvised weapons being made is if all improvised weapons are unwieldy, unreliable and something only a clown would do.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Half a minute for cablecuffs, a minute for handcuffs. So basically impossible unless you manage to escape.

Or may be cablecuffs shouldn't show a message when being resisted out of? That could help catch captives off guard.

[Raven776]

As to why the work? It's a rope with some knot. Why wouldn't they work?

It's not a good-quality rope or anything, it's an electric cable.

Electric cables are pretty hard to snap or bend. If anything, it should just take longer to make the cuffs instead of taking shorter times to break out of them.

[Rose-chan]

How about an improvised spacesuit?

Take a cardborg helmet and suit, line it with tinfoil, install a space heater, and viola; and instant spacesuit that will protect you on your spacewalks until the battery runs out or the whole thing catches fire and you die a very quick and painful death.

[cedarbridge]

...thanks for the valuable input

You might notice a pattern.

[MisterPerson]

As to why the work? It's a rope with some knot. Why wouldn't they work?

It's not a good-quality rope or anything, it's an electric cable.

Electric cables are pretty hard to snap or bend. If anything, it should just take longer to make the cuffs instead of taking shorter times to break out of them.

Time to make is irrelevant because people just make them in advance in perfect safety.

[Cipher3]

As to why the work? It's a rope with some knot. Why wouldn't they work?

It's not a good-quality rope or anything, it's an electric cable.

Electric cables are pretty hard to snap or bend. If anything, it should just take longer to make the cuffs instead of taking shorter times to break out of them.

Time to make is irrelevant because people just make them in advance in perfect safety.

I'll actually find myself without cuffs sometimes and make them on the spot.

[MisterPerson]

I'll actually find myself without cuffs sometimes and make them on the spot.

Perfect, that's the behavior I want to encourage. Long creation times would make it impossible.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

To be honest, it will make more people waste cable on cuffs early on just to be sure.

[Fragnostic]

How about an improvised spacesuit?

Take a cardborg helmet and suit, line it with tinfoil, install a space heater, and viola; and instant spacesuit that will protect you on your spacewalks until the battery runs out or the whole thing catches fire and you die a very quick and painful death.

Fucking this, maybe a fire suit and cardboard helmet/suit combo makes a ghetto space suit.
We also need a ghetto gun. Any ideas on how?

[Kelenius]

How about an improvised spacesuit?

Take a cardborg helmet and suit, line it with tinfoil, install a space heater, and viola; and instant spacesuit that will protect you on your spacewalks until the battery runs out or the whole thing catches fire and you die a very quick and painful death.

Fucking this, maybe a fire suit and cardboard helmet/suit combo makes a ghetto space suit.
We also need a ghetto gun. Any ideas on how?

A bow?

[Rose-chan]

We also need a ghetto gun. Any ideas on how?

Bamboo shoots. Grow 'em in the garden, cut them into pea shooters with the hatchet, then fire plant seeds at people that do 1~2 brute damage a hit. Alternatively, you can stick a wad of paper in there and fire it at someone's eyes for a chance of temporarily blinding them for like ten seconds.

[MedicInDisquise]

How about an improvised spacesuit?

Take a cardborg helmet and suit, line it with tinfoil, install a space heater, and viola; and instant spacesuit that will protect you on your spacewalks until the battery runs out or the whole thing catches fire and you die a very quick and painful death.

Fucking this, maybe a fire suit and cardboard helmet/suit combo makes a ghetto space suit.
We also need a ghetto gun. Any ideas on how?

Use the flamethrower as the base of the ghetto gun. You make a flamethrower, but at the igniter part you instead use the wire cutters to make the barrel shorter, and use other rods to make a handle. You then adjust the pressure, shooting nearly any small object out from the gun. Monkey Cubes, dice, perhaps pellets for the gun specially made using metal/wood/plastic.

More pressure makes it shoot further, but increases the chance of it backfiring onto your face.

A bow?

Or just use that.

[Fragnostic]

A bow?

That would be awesome. I'm imagining it's frame could be made with metal rods and strung with cable coil, but I think it's materials should be less accessible. It would be terrible to give every assistant deadly ranged weaponry to greytide with.

And instead of the flamethrower becoming a gun, it could be a ghetto grenade launcher. its barrel could be refitted or adapted with a soda can(welded on after being screwdrived maybe?) and that would extend its barrel and make it wide enough to fit any standard grenade or chem grenade. Every shot should use about 200kpa of tank pressure, so you could fill it with any gas at all. And if you try to fire it when it was 103kpa or less, the grenade falls at your feet. And it could also have a chance of exploding with the same force as a welderfuel tank bomb.

With this, the janitor could 'declare war' on stains, or riot police could fire tear gas effectively, or the chemist could be a dick.

And what about torches? Made by metal rods--->cable restraints and adding cheap/Zippo lighter to the wired rod assembly. It can be turned off and on like the stunprod, and throwing it and making contact sets the victim on fire, or when beaten. It should be a loud weapon so that people quickly switch to disarm intent when they see it. Also have a 10% chance to blow up on you and/or set you on fire.

Any more ghetto equipment? How about hazard vest+cable coil+floor tile= ghetto armor?
Hazard hat+cable coil+floor tile=ghetto combat helmet.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

What about starting box could be turned into giant robot that is considered your pet and it wears hats and intantly gibs everyone in sight and then if anybody attacks you it permabans them that's a great idea you guys

[Fragnostic]

What about starting box could be turned into giant robot that is considered your pet and it wears hats and intantly gibs everyone in sight and then if anybody attacks you it permabans them that's a great idea you guys

>inb4 secret fairy godmother circlejerking admin who watches over you

But what is so improvised about this ayy lmao?

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Ha, I didn't realize it actually fits metafriending admin quite well.

[Miauw]

ghetto space suits already exist and are probably the most actually ghetto thing in the game atm.

Also using firesuits for space protection could be interpreted as a Sunshine reference which makes them even betterer.

[MedicInDisquise]

Cipher3 wrote:
I'll actually find myself without cuffs sometimes and make them on the spot.


Perfect, that's the behavior I want to encourage. Long creation times would make it impossible.

What about that if you create them far in advance, they start breaking apart? The spear's glass shard falls off and hast o be reattached, the stunprod randomly shocks you. The cable cuffs untie and snap back to regular cable form. Can you imagine as an antag stunproding someone when it shocks you, and then your cablecuff falls apart on the floor? That would encourage making them on the spot, so they don't fall apart when you actually need them?

[Raven776]

There's plenty of improvised weaponry on the station already. Practically every object you pick up can be an improvised weapon already if you try hard enough.

[Ezel]

a bow a spear
were going back in time
About the cable cuffs i think longer creation time would.ve nice i mean like
you do the spear in steps to but cabl cuffs are like instant made
maybe add like 5 secs you start bending the cables...you bended the cables
i mean tables arent.instant well earlier they were but not now just add like 3-5 seconds to it

[Cipher3]

Making them take longer to produce is actually the opposite of what's wanted here.

[Ezel]

better than produce more than 5 cablecuffs in 10secs
i mean like you can make handcuffs in autolathes but they take sone time to when making
adding those 1-5 secs really hard it would be more realistic
for.example
normally you have to bend them which takes time
but.its.like poof.wizard magic

[Cipher3]

You couldn't USE five cablecuffs, even if you had the three sets of cable wire needed. The argument is pointless because the situation arising would basically require a one-man non-antag army against a team of hostiles with the one man having a grand supply of stuns and nearby seating to buckle them to once they were cuffed. And he'd have to judge himself capable of that instead of just killing a couple, which would probably be warranted considering this would never happen except in a life-or-death situation of an absurd scale. And realism in and of itself isn't an argument when you're going against the intended gameplay angle.

[Konork]

Adding a build time to cable cuffs isn't going to fix anything because people are going to build them in advance. And they're trying to discourage building them in advance in favor of building them on the spot, so it's not a useful idea in this context, either

[Ezel]

Wasnt space station 13 a RP game in the first place?
Walls takes time
spear takes time
everything what can be made takes time even when deconstructing it
but cable cuffs is like poof done?

This really breaks the Rp part of it not totally but it affects the gameplay a bit
And you cant do a rp with something that can ruin it i mean have cargo as example
they just can order electrical crates and here you go 9sets cable coil 270 pieces - 15 for every cablecuff is 18 in total which is mostly the half of the crew
which can affect rev to be strong very early with instant cuffs
i know you said if they add a building time poeple make them early but tjats.just pure
Powergaming just only to have win not having fun in the rp or something

[Cipher3]

No. It really breaks nothing. It's really good to have them this way. They're made quickly, and they take as much time to apply as handcuffs anyways. It's literally just you having a personal heart attack over nothing, because WHY WOULD YOU EVER CABLECUFF HALF THE CREW. YOU COULDN'T EVEN HOLD THAT IN AN INVENTORY. WHAT'S THE POINT OF MEANINGLESSLY LARGE FIGURES.

[Raven776]

I've once had seven people cablecuffed and buckled to chairs, stripped of comms.

I like to put myself in high stress situations as antag because something about freaking the fuck out in front of your murder victims tickles me.

"I'M GOING TO FUCKING KILL YOU WHEN I GET OUT OF THESE CUFFS!"

"OH MY FUCKING GOD I KNOW JUST PLEASE STOP YELLING!"

And then 7 naked and commsless people rush me as I start lighting up a flamethrower and the AI is crying tears of harm.

[Incomptinence]

Better cuffed than dead. Mass hostage taking is extremely rare I personally have not seen it myself.

Realisms garbage aside what Raven did sounds like a great RP scenario and because cable cuffs actually ARE a bit shit already you eventually would overextend and they would have a chance to fight back. Of course to the anti antag beep booper the fun of an antag is never worth that of even a single antag (even if the victim might have fun, but always ignore that) and they have the audacity to be outnumbered! Shameful antags!

Mass cable cuffs is hardly the no fun way to do this. Just look at medbay tools such as straight jacket or N2O + O2 mix internals which once used to kidnap someone and it was so terrible for the victim the admin who gave me the objective asked me to let him wake up.

[ColonicAcid]

A criminal is only stopped when he's in the permabrig dead and cuffed. Only then is justice truly and well served.