Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
- Arianya
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Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
When a borg is emagged, there's a substantial gap of time between the emagging starting and the borg receiving new laws.
As there was some confusion on the server today as to whether it was kosher for borgs to cry out during this period, I thought we could all use a policy thread!
Please discuss: Should borgs be allowed to cry for help, on radio or the borg channel, in the time it takes for the emag to kick in?
As there was some confusion on the server today as to whether it was kosher for borgs to cry out during this period, I thought we could all use a policy thread!
Please discuss: Should borgs be allowed to cry for help, on radio or the borg channel, in the time it takes for the emag to kick in?
Frequently playing as Aria Bollet on Bagil & Scary Terry
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- Saegrimr
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
I thought the emagging process stunned them for some amount of time, and if it doesn't why not
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- Arianya
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
While they can't move, they can by all accounts talk.
Frequently playing as Aria Bollet on Bagil & Scary Terry
Source of avatar is here: https://i.imgur.com/hEkADo6.jpg
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- Saegrimr
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
I guess that just depends on how much they want to be blown immediately.
"HELP BEING EMAGGED"
"Uhhh.. Just kidding guys not emagged at all, heh *beep "
"HELP BEING EMAGGED"
"Uhhh.. Just kidding guys not emagged at all, heh *beep "
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- Cayce
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 5:06 am
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
Emaggers:
Flash that fucking borg before, during, and just once after, and then confirm it's got your laws, and it can't scream for help.
Flash that fucking borg before, during, and just once after, and then confirm it's got your laws, and it can't scream for help.
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Kwisatz Haderach - Blue haired prophet of engineering.
Steals-The-Thing - That fucking ligger stole the pen out of my PDA.
Kwisatz Haderach - Blue haired prophet of engineering.
Steals-The-Thing - That fucking ligger stole the pen out of my PDA.
- Armhulen
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
Cant blow emagged borgsSaegrimr wrote:I guess that just depends on how much they want to be blown immediately.
"HELP BEING EMAGGED"
"Uhhh.. Just kidding guys not emagged at all, heh *beep "
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
You definitely can. A detonated emagged borg deletes the MMI as well. A normally blown borg leaves its MMI. This has been the case since forever.Armhulen wrote:Cant blow emagged borgsSaegrimr wrote:I guess that just depends on how much they want to be blown immediately.
"HELP BEING EMAGGED"
"Uhhh.. Just kidding guys not emagged at all, heh *beep "
Flashes now mute borgs and prevent binary chat as well. If you're going to emag a borg you'd better sneak up on him or flash his shit.
As to whether borgs should be "allowed" that comes down to silicon policy and lawsets. Presuming a base ASMIOV, the borg would be justified and even obligated to prevent its own emagging or alert the station of the tampering. The borg knows that the intent is to convert them into a weapon with altered laws that would allow and likely lead immediately to station harm. Their inaction would allow humans to come to harm, therefore they are obligated under Law 1 to prevent their own conversion into an armed killing machine. If we are going to write in a rule that they aren't "allowed" to do this (why) then we're going to have to reconsider how it interacts with borg laws. A similar calculus happens when you introduce Corporate. Corporate laws require the AI and borg to "minimize expenses." Replacing a sabotaged borg is expensive, in material and work hours. Sabotage in general, especially that caused by a hijacked borg, is exceptionally expensive to repair and/or replace. Thus, the borg is obligated to avoid subversion in order to minimize those potential expenses.
Don't ban borgs for following their laws no matter how many antags get outed for not carrying a flash.
Last edited by cedarbridge on Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- BeeSting12
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
I guess that if the laws haven't been added, it's okay to do so. Wouldn't make sense from an OOC perspective, but if you want to do it, then get yourself blown, by all means.
- Armhulen
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
give them syndicate laws THEN go through the whole hacking process
done, easy fix
done, easy fix
- Xhagi
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
Probably treat it the same as being turned to a clockcult/regular cult. Up till you are actually converted, feel free to scream and yell all you want.
Just, you know, expect to be arrested/killed/blown if you indicate you are being converted/emagged.
Just, you know, expect to be arrested/killed/blown if you indicate you are being converted/emagged.
Professional Catgirl and Gayboy Supreme.
- Anonmare
- Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:59 pm
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
When I play cyborg and I know someone is trying to emag me, I avoid them as much as possible but i don't yell. It was always my opinion that:
Possession of emag = Enemy of the Corporation = Almost assured death sentence if caught
I wouldn't go up to an emagger and say "Emag pls" but if I knew you had one, I'd avoid you like you had scale itch.
Possession of emag = Enemy of the Corporation = Almost assured death sentence if caught
I wouldn't go up to an emagger and say "Emag pls" but if I knew you had one, I'd avoid you like you had scale itch.
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
Some of my favorite experiences with AI/Borg subversion have always been unexpected. Hidden uploads are super fun and the response from the AI/Borgs to suddenly getting new or replacement laws when there's nobody in the upload adds to the fun. Trying to brute force emag a borg is usually sloppy and makes for sloppy results.Anonmare wrote:When I play cyborg and I know someone is trying to emag me, I avoid them as much as possible but i don't yell. It was always my opinion that:
Possession of emag = Enemy of the Corporation = Almost assured death sentence if caught
I wouldn't go up to an emagger and say "Emag pls" but if I knew you had one, I'd avoid you like you had scale itch.
- XDTM
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
I love building a hidden upload and start shaking the AI toy until a fun law comes up, and then see the AI's reaction
a.k.a. Duke Hayka
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- firecage
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
Well, from personnel experience, you can get bwoinked if you scream for help just BEFORE being emagged. Since apparently said traitor went through all the effort to wisk you away, and its unfair against them or something.
Basically, I got flashed and dragged away to toxin storage, when I could see again, the guy was holding an emag in his hand, and a crowbar in his other hand. So I yelled and said I was about to be emagged over the radio before he did it. Apparently it was an extremely bad thing to do.
Basically, I got flashed and dragged away to toxin storage, when I could see again, the guy was holding an emag in his hand, and a crowbar in his other hand. So I yelled and said I was about to be emagged over the radio before he did it. Apparently it was an extremely bad thing to do.
- XDTM
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
If he didn't even use it yet it shouldn't have been bad, but if a traitor actually manages to swipe it i think the borg should already be considered emagged; the scrolling error text is likely for flavor more than to let the borg call for help.
a.k.a. Duke Hayka
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- cedarbridge
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
IIRC the "new law" hack tooltip shows up before the text box scroll text finishes and appears about instantly after emagging. That's a tad more reliable.XDTM wrote:If he didn't even use it yet it shouldn't have been bad, but if a traitor actually manages to swipe it i think the borg should already be considered emagged; the scrolling error text is likely for flavor more than to let the borg call for help.
- Screemonster
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:23 pm
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
Where does the emagging show in the logs, exactly? That might be a source of confusion if it's like...
1. person swipes an emag on the borg
2. borg gets big YOU ARE BEING HACKED
3. admin logs say "badman mcantag emagged loyal mcasimov"
4. borg yells for help
5. borg finally receives new laws
6. borg gets bwoinked for yelling for help after the admin saw the emag message.
1. person swipes an emag on the borg
2. borg gets big YOU ARE BEING HACKED
3. admin logs say "badman mcantag emagged loyal mcasimov"
4. borg yells for help
5. borg finally receives new laws
6. borg gets bwoinked for yelling for help after the admin saw the emag message.
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
Fun fact, I'm the reason borgs get locked down during an emag because I got emagged on PALADIN while beating the emagger up and kept hitting him until my laws actually changed to syndicate
Personally I think either they should be completely muted and helpless from the moment of emag swipe until emagged, or given the laws immediately and leaving the text crawl as a fluff-only effect.
Personally I think either they should be completely muted and helpless from the moment of emag swipe until emagged, or given the laws immediately and leaving the text crawl as a fluff-only effect.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- Sweaterkittens
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
That's fucking 10/10, oh my god. That visual is priceless.Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Fun fact, I'm the reason borgs get locked down during an emag because I got emagged on PALADIN while beating the emagger up and kept hitting him until my laws actually changed to syndicate
I agree with this sentiment. Even if we establish a policy on this, you can't really blame someone for not following it one way or the other, because it's not particularly clear or intuitive based on the fact that it's so slow to update your laws. That being said, I personally think emagging cyborgs is far, far too easy right now, being that you can perform it silently and within less than a second if you're quick with swapping hands. That's probably another issue, though.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: Personally I think either they should be completely muted and helpless from the moment of emag swipe until emagged, or given the laws immediately and leaving the text crawl as a fluff-only effect.
- Deitus
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:26 pm
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
it would be difficult to enforce this kind of thing since it could extend to things like cult and rev conversions too
"GUYS HELP X GOT ME WITH RATVAR STUN HE'S TRYING TO--i mean uh just kidding"
this isnt something really enforceable because there's a chance you could get away, and a lot of people wouldn't like a rule saying that you basically have to roll over and play dead when captured
"GUYS HELP X GOT ME WITH RATVAR STUN HE'S TRYING TO--i mean uh just kidding"
this isnt something really enforceable because there's a chance you could get away, and a lot of people wouldn't like a rule saying that you basically have to roll over and play dead when captured
- Armhulen
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
emag doesn'tCosmicScientist wrote:I thought Ratvar conversion muted? I thought most if not all hoomie conversion modes muted?
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- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
Doesn't need a rule, just make it stun.
Probably more posts in this thread than times this has ever happened though.
Probably more posts in this thread than times this has ever happened though.
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Re: Emagging borgs - allowed to cry for help?
Well, I fixed with code instead of a weird ruling that would annoy more than help, so I am closing this thread since it's no longer relevant.
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