2k17 /pol/

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sat May 20, 2017 9:17 pm #296727

Bottom post of the previous page:

no usual suspects because they say stupid shit regardless of what they're talking about

Post by **oranges** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:09 pm #296736

Australians don't get political banter because their politicans aren't as good

ShadowDimentio · Sat May 20, 2017 10:11 pm

Luke Cox wrote:"Usual suspects" being "everyone I disagree with"

Except maybe Shadow

I will space you.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:14 pm #296738

Personally speaking, I think that network news companies are pure, distilled AIDS and little more than corporate propaganda outlets. They have too many conflicts of interest to be taken seriously.

ShadowDimentio · Sat May 20, 2017 10:16 pm

I only get my news from YouTube, at least there people wear their hearts on their sleeve usually.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:22 pm #296742

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sat May 20, 2017 10:56 pm #296745

The difference between network news outlets and YouTube news outlets is that the YouTube ones don't claim to hold a position of authority.

ColonicAcid · Sat May 20, 2017 11:02 pm

The difference between journalists and youtube journalists is that journalists actually have standards for admission.

ShadowDimentio · Sat May 20, 2017 11:03 pm

Yeah, saying what corporate wants you to.

ColonicAcid · Sat May 20, 2017 11:05 pm

I mean majority of people have like zero fucking clue what they're talking about when it comes to journalism. They don't know how it works and they'll never put in the work to actually discover how it works.

What's your opinion on Buzzfeed's journalism department?

ShadowDimentio · Sat May 20, 2017 11:07 pm

>Buzzfeed

That's my opinion

ColonicAcid · Sat May 20, 2017 11:12 pm

And there you go.

That's why people like you should stop spouting buzzwords like you actually understand journalism at all.

Buzzfeed's journalism department, like their actual news team is one of the best in the world since all that CLICKBAIT money allowed them to out compete actual established newspapers. They've managed to employ multiple pullitzer prize winning journalists from the Washington Post, New York Times etc and actually produce some of the best investigative journalism recently.

https://www.poynter.org/2016/how-buzzfe ... up/396656/

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sat May 20, 2017 11:16 pm #296762

it's not even like that's an unusual business model, for eample, before Jeff Bezos (Amazon's founder) bought it over half of the Washington Post's funding came from Kaplan test prep/for-profit colleges, which they owned

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sun May 21, 2017 12:54 am #296799

If you accept any news presenter's word for it, network or YouTube, you're doing it wrong. Do your own research, go to multiple sources, and make up your mind. The reason I don't trust network news is because I've found them to be the most dishonest in my experience.

Super Aggro Crag · Sun May 21, 2017 1:16 am

I heard that donald trump got TWO scoops of ice cream!

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Sun May 21, 2017 2:23 am #296832

Super Aggro Crag wrote:I heard that donald trump got TWO scoops of ice cream!

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sun May 21, 2017 11:34 am #296892

lntigracy wrote:You could always just not open the thread if you don't want to read political discussion

That would require Ausops to not suffer the autisms though

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Sun May 21, 2017 7:59 pm #296997

On the topic of "is trump's stuff impeachment worthy"

We can blabber back and forth all day about what the law says, but the only way to really understand what the rules mean is how they are applied.
The real question is "Will Trump be impeached?"

And that hinges on one thing: Does the republican party controlling Congress want to keep Trump around? That decision is going to be made based on political advantage and disadvantage, given that a case could theoretically be made- and it looks like one could. Whether or not they impeach Trump will in fact be very telling.

So, what does the Republican party stand to gain from tossing Trumpout of office?

Pro (For Republican party):

If Trump would otherwise follow through with "draining the swamp", then as representatives of the swamp, they benefit from his impeachment.

Convincingly indicate that although Trump may have ties to Russia, the republican party as a whole doesn't (What's actually true doesn't matter here- whether they have ties to Russia or not, they benefit from appearing innocent.)

Present a clear ultimatum to future Republican presidents, in particular Mike Pence, that the Republican machine will not tolerate deviation from the party line.

Install Mike Pence or Paul Ryan (As the current speaker of the house, Paul Ryan is third in line for the presidency. If Pence resigns in the wake of trump's impeachment or resignation, as happened with Nixon, he would assume the presidency) in the White House. There's some benefits to both- Paul Ryan is a consummate tool of the republican establishment, and Pence strongly appeals to religious fundamentalists.

Con

Alienate Trump's support base.

Potentially make the U.S look weak internationally.

I don't think the republican machine is as worried about alienating Trump's core support base as their numbers would otherwise suggest, because they are so very unlikely to vote Democrat. So it doesn't have to shrink to nothing to be a less meaningful con.

I think the Republican party wants impeach Trump for the pros, but doesn't want to deal with voter alienation. So there are a couple circumstances: if his approval rate among republicans drops below fifty, sixty percent or so (Currently it's sitting at 70 to 80 percent, depending on who you ask). In that scenario they probably replace him with Ryan (or another tool of the party). They might also impeach him shortly before the midterm elections, replacing him with Pence, in order to make a strong appeal to religious voters, if the Dems are doing too well in the congressional polls.

This is conjecture, though- predicting the future is hard.

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Sun May 21, 2017 8:11 pm #297005

Drynwyn wrote:(Stuff on impeachment)

This guy gets it.

lntigracy · Post by **lntigracy** » Sun May 21, 2017 8:16 pm #297008

You forget there's more to impeachment than just the vote to impeach by the house.

The chief justice sits as the judge for presidential impeachment trials, and the Senate acts as the jury and votes, requiring 2/3 majority to actually remove them from office.

Any official not the president has the VP preside over the proceedings which, amusingly, should you read the constitution literally, would include his own impeachment trial, though that has already been agreed to not be allowed.

A bunch of senators and congressman won their seats solely because of the trump train, alienation of the booting base is a bigger issue than it sounds for them so they'd essentially be shooting themselves in the foot if they voted in favor for something that wasn't a huge enough issue to have voter backing.

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Sun May 21, 2017 8:31 pm #297011

And in the end, it's not like Trump is doing anything the republican party doesn't want anyway

>Says Islam is one of the world's greatest religions
>Bows to the Saudis

Just another puppet. But at least he pretended not to be

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun May 21, 2017 8:36 pm #297012

trump is an attention whore begging for people to praise him and throwing a tantrum when they don't
so of course he's ass-kissing the saudis
he counts on them kissing him back

ShadowDimentio · Sun May 21, 2017 8:37 pm

Regardless of what the top brass in the Republican party think about Trump, he's /their guy/, and pushing for his impeachment on anything less than EXTREMELY solid grounds would completely destroy the party as it disintegrated into splinter factions.

It wouldn't be akin to them shooting themselves in the foot, it'd be akin to shooting themselves in the head.

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Mon May 22, 2017 12:04 am #297057

imblyings wrote:>someone disengages from pol thread last time after being btfo and says to continue discussing over pm's if anyone wants to
>comes back for some reason

on a slightly related note, why do we tolerate politics discussion? I know of a national and incredibly vast web forum that bans politics discussion and is none the worse for it. In fact, it's been successful for years. More to the point, a lot of politics nowadays is intentional radicalization and polarization, part of divide and conquer, which is nothing an internet community needs.

I disengaged because it went down to name calling and was really childish. I'm not going to name call so I chose to not discuss things. If people act like a pig it doesn't mean I have to wallow in the mud to fit in. You should never engage in a debate with someone who attacks you instead of the argument.

ShadowDimentio · Mon May 22, 2017 4:36 am

Meanwhile

Trump went to Arabia and gave a speech, didn't get blown up. The thrust of it, as heard from the grapevine, was "police your own religion god damnit" but politely.

Also he sold 100B in weapons to them (the Saudis), this could end badly.

onleavedontatme · Mon May 22, 2017 4:41 am

Also he sold 100B in weapons to them (the Saudis), this could end badly.

Read up on the war in Yemen, it's already going very badly.

ShadowDimentio · Mon May 22, 2017 4:43 am

You fugged up, Kor

onleavedontatme · Mon May 22, 2017 4:44 am

Posting in the politics thread is always a fuck up, yeah

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Mon May 22, 2017 4:51 am #297157

It's going badly but it could have been worse, like an American-Russian air war over Syria.

ShadowDimentio · Mon May 22, 2017 4:58 am

Glancing over the Yemen war page on Wikipedia, yeah I can see why selling more guns to the Saudis would be a bad idea. Hopefully there's a decent resolution, though.

With any luck Trump will be able to have the Saudis' ears long enough to not have them do something like that again, or better yet try and piece things back together after they fucked it up.

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Mon May 22, 2017 5:09 am #297163

So I've been talking to a great guy called Saruman, he's absolutely marvelous. We've been talking about some very important things, he's a very good leader, and let me tell you, we'll be making a lot of deals with Isengard from now on. Believe me.

ShadowDimentio · Mon May 22, 2017 5:10 am

THE PACT IS SEALED

THE BLOOD RUNES WILL BE DRAWN BY DAWN

THE DARK LORD'S RISE IS NOW ASSURED

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Mon May 22, 2017 5:14 am #297166

There's not.
The war in Yemen will continue ad infinitum as the Saudis are too inept to ever conclusively end the war militarily, politically unwilling to compromise, have money to spare to fight a long war, and have enough leverage over Western nations (and their institutions) for weapon systems, intelligence assistance, media and diplomatic silence, and whatever other military involvement short of directly sending troops to fight.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Mon May 22, 2017 8:24 am #297215

tl;dr of all this: Trump isn't the first one to do this, and he won't be last one to do this. Fuck any politician who wants to deal with Saudi Arabia.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Mon May 22, 2017 9:16 am #297224

Kissing oil-shitting asses is a time-honored American (and Western in general) tradition

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon May 22, 2017 10:04 am #297232

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05 ... stigation/

is ecuador /ourcountry/ for harbouring assange for so long?

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Mon May 22, 2017 2:20 pm #297263

Grazyn wrote:Kissing oil-shitting asses is a time-honored American (and Western in general) tradition

What is Venezuela
What is Iran

imblyings wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05 ... stigation/

is ecuador /ourcountry/ for harbouring assange for so long?

From what I read it's mostly thanks to /ourguy/ President Correa they've held out this long

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Mon May 22, 2017 2:35 pm #297265

You can either kiss Saudi ass or Iranian ass, not both. And Venezuela is commie so no ass kissing for them

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Mon May 22, 2017 2:36 pm #297266

i dont think anyone really wants to kiss venezuelas ass.

their oil is actually garbage. contains far too much sulphur and needs far too much refining to ever really be profitable.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Mon May 22, 2017 2:39 pm #297267

I think China doesn't mind kissing Venezuela's ass from time to time

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Mon May 22, 2017 4:29 pm #297291

Missing my point. The point isn't the fact that the asses shit oil, it's the fact that the asses shit oil money.

I hope you will notice that the US is currently not inclined to and never will be be inclined to aid Canada militarily in an aggressive, almost imperialist, war in another country. And that, however commie or heavy their crude oil is, Venezuelan imports are comparable to Saudi imports.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Mon May 22, 2017 4:32 pm #297292

That chart is super disingenuous though.

Saudi Arabia digs up virtually only sweet crude oil. Venezuela digs up only sour crude oil. There's a reason one country is currently seeing huge increases in GDP and the other is currently having a pseudo-civil war.

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Mon May 22, 2017 4:37 pm #297295

No, it is not disingenuous. The heavy/light part of the crude oil primarily concern profit margins. So long as the price of crude is high enough (which it is), sour/heavy crude oil is still profitable, but less so. Which brings me back to my point about oil money instead of the oil itself.

Also the pseudo-civil war is the result of administrative mismanagement and general misgovernance, not the chemical properties of their petroleum.

starmute · Post by **starmute** » Mon May 22, 2017 4:59 pm #297299

ColonicAcid wrote:That chart is super disingenuous though.

Saudi Arabia digs up virtually only sweet crude oil. Venezuela digs up only sour crude oil. There's a reason one country is currently seeing huge increases in GDP and the other is currently having a pseudo-civil war.

Sweet and sour oil 2017?

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Mon May 22, 2017 11:39 pm #297383

Explosion at a concert in Manchester. 20 confirmed dead, probably way more injured. No confirmation yet as to the cause, but I'm pretty sure it's a terror attack

Post by **oranges** » Mon May 22, 2017 11:40 pm #297384

Nah it was probably just a big firework

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Tue May 23, 2017 12:58 am #297419

ohnopigeons wrote:No, it is not disingenuous. The heavy/light part of the crude oil primarily concern profit margins. So long as the price of crude is high enough (which it is), sour/heavy crude oil is still profitable, but less so. Which brings me back to my point about oil money instead of the oil itself.

Also the pseudo-civil war is the result of administrative mismanagement and general misgovernance, not the chemical properties of their petroleum.

To be fair here, they did base their entire economy and adminstration on "We're selling our oil and paying for everything with it"
Which goes poorly if the profit margin on oil becomes smaller so they can't pay for as much with it

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Tue May 23, 2017 1:23 am #297429

Just a part of life in a major city, or so I'm told

Super Aggro Crag · Tue May 23, 2017 2:22 am

Religion of.....peas?

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Tue May 23, 2017 4:28 am #297478

some top twitter hashtags coming out of this

ShadowDimentio · Tue May 23, 2017 4:31 am

It's just a bunch of the usual suspects standing on either side of a line shouting DON'T SURRENDER TO HATE CHOOSE LOVE INSTEAD and GODDAMN MUSLIMS RELIGION OF PEACE MY ASS, CRUSADE NOW