9000 guns and not a drop to drink
- captain sawrge
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Sawrge
9000 guns and not a drop to drink
hey everyone lets keep adding slightly different gimmick rifles to the game that you can use 2% of the time without being banned
lets focus our brain power on this shit
keep giving r&d guns because uhh where else do we put them le science armory digg win
why the fuck does any of this shit exist when the fuck are you gonna use the nuclear fusion particle blaster gauss rifle with the type of gameplay we have except to carry it around and search for any single flimsy reason to dust someone
remove the fucking deconstructive analzyer and the stupid puddle-shallow r&d flowchart-->loot pile bullshit and get rid of all the epic pointless guns
lets focus our brain power on this shit
keep giving r&d guns because uhh where else do we put them le science armory digg win
why the fuck does any of this shit exist when the fuck are you gonna use the nuclear fusion particle blaster gauss rifle with the type of gameplay we have except to carry it around and search for any single flimsy reason to dust someone
remove the fucking deconstructive analzyer and the stupid puddle-shallow r&d flowchart-->loot pile bullshit and get rid of all the epic pointless guns
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- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Do you actually have a plan on how to improve the system or is just axing it because you don't like it your whole plan, R&D makes a shitload more than just guns.
Last edited by ShadowDimentio on Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
- captain sawrge
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Sawrge
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
The best way to improve the system is to axe itShadowDimentio wrote:Do you actually have a plan on how to improve the system or is just axing it because you don't like it your whole plan
- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
- Byond Username: David273
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
And what about the tons of systems built around R&D like mining and upgrading and robotics
Spoiler:
- captain sawrge
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Sawrge
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Axe combat mechs and remove tech requirements for the rest so they only have chemical and material costs
- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
- Byond Username: David273
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
So robotics only has borgs that people only rarely sign up for, RIPLEYS that miners are the only ones who use and never ask for, Oddys that nobody ever asks for, and virtually no fancy toys to attach to either of them because Oddys can't use guns and RIPLEYS only have like five mods available.
Meanwhile all it takes is a miner five minutes of mining to get a few mats and R&D can print out enough upgrades to upgrade the whole station by the ten minute mark.
Great, you've really improved the game my dude.
Meanwhile all it takes is a miner five minutes of mining to get a few mats and R&D can print out enough upgrades to upgrade the whole station by the ten minute mark.
Great, you've really improved the game my dude.
Spoiler:
- captain sawrge
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- XDTM
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Dear god you made me agree with dimentioShadowDimentio wrote:Do you actually have a plan on how to improve the system or is just axing it because you don't like it your whole plan, R&D makes a shitload more than just guns.
a.k.a. Duke Hayka
Coder of golems, virology, hallucinations, traumas, nanites, and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.
Coder of golems, virology, hallucinations, traumas, nanites, and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.
- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
- Byond Username: David273
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
This is like the fifth person who's finally realized I'm reasonable, I'm on a crazy combo right now
Spoiler:
- BeeSting12
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
enter improve don't remove meme here
- Lumbermancer
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
I thought this thread is gonna be about revamping alcohol.
- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
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- captain sawrge
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Sawrge
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Improve the game by removing the tumorBeeSting12 wrote:enter improve don't remove meme here
- BeeSting12
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
do you have a suggested replacement though? RnD is a large part of science and is also important to many other jobs, not just the guns, the stock parts circuit boards etccaptain sawrge wrote:Improve the game by removing the tumorBeeSting12 wrote:enter improve don't remove meme here
- captain sawrge
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- Lazengann
- Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:26 pm
- Byond Username: Lazengann
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
The flowchart based gameplay is kind of silly and I have to wonder why it's necessary
I thought this would be a thread about overhauling alcohol and giving different drinks cool effects, right now it's rare for the bar to be populated because all drinking does is fuck up your text and possibly your walking, very negative things for a text chat murder simulation
I thought this would be a thread about overhauling alcohol and giving different drinks cool effects, right now it's rare for the bar to be populated because all drinking does is fuck up your text and possibly your walking, very negative things for a text chat murder simulation
- captain sawrge
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Sawrge
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Scorched earth fuck this entire mechanic it has never been good and now it only exists as an excuse to add shit that otherwise would never get in
- XDTM
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
I'm fine with no guns but rnd makes cool things beside those. Don't remove a creative department because you don't like one side of it.
People who only see RnD as free guns are the worst, they're usually the ones barging in and printing six guns to valid around with.
EDIT: Yes the gameplay sucks, but the results lead to creative projects. The gameplay can be improved once someone takes the time to rework it.
People who only see RnD as free guns are the worst, they're usually the ones barging in and printing six guns to valid around with.
EDIT: Yes the gameplay sucks, but the results lead to creative projects. The gameplay can be improved once someone takes the time to rework it.
a.k.a. Duke Hayka
Coder of golems, virology, hallucinations, traumas, nanites, and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.
Coder of golems, virology, hallucinations, traumas, nanites, and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.
- captain sawrge
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Sawrge
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
The deconstructive analyzer is fucking awful and the stupid artificial progression mechanic of that section of R&D is garbage and has never been good
- captain sawrge
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Sawrge
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Make R&D about more stupid cool gimmicks like xenobio and toxins at least there is some pretense of "research" behind those
- Lazengann
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- Byond Username: Lazengann
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Don't lock the creative projects behind a crappy flowchart
- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
- Byond Username: David273
- captain sawrge
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Sawrge
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Fuck gun bloat and fuck the deconstruct analyzer they're both BadShadowDimentio wrote:What are you even talking about
- Tokiko2
- Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:18 am
- Byond Username: Tokiko1
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Make R&D do actual science.
Want a laser cannon? Better build a laser beam chamber and run experiments there to unlock it. Want a mech rocket launcher? Make a chemical bomb and detonate it in an observation chamber so the explosion can be analyzed by a machine. Tesla cannon? Make a tesla coil room and test stuff in there.
Just kidding, there is no time for fun science in 20 minute rounds.
Want a laser cannon? Better build a laser beam chamber and run experiments there to unlock it. Want a mech rocket launcher? Make a chemical bomb and detonate it in an observation chamber so the explosion can be analyzed by a machine. Tesla cannon? Make a tesla coil room and test stuff in there.
Just kidding, there is no time for fun science in 20 minute rounds.
- danno
- Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:07 pm
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
I sure love watching arbitrary numbers go up by cookie clicking until it pops a gun out that I can use to horizontal someone and then start over
- Qbopper
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
I'm impressed
no "guncrafting" post from goof yet
no "guncrafting" post from goof yet
Limey wrote:its too late.
- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
- Byond Username: David273
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
This is the correct fix, but takes work and easy like just ripping R&D out and saying "don't worry it's better now" as the multiple systems built around it collapse.Tokiko2 wrote:Make R&D do actual science.
Want a laser cannon? Better build a laser beam chamber and run experiments there to unlock it. Want a mech rocket launcher? Make a chemical bomb and detonate it in an observation chamber so the explosion can be analyzed by a machine. Tesla cannon? Make a tesla coil room and test stuff in there.
Just kidding, there is no time for fun science in 20 minute rounds.
Spoiler:
- Lazengann
- Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:26 pm
- Byond Username: Lazengann
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
That isn't any different than nowShadowDimentio wrote:So robotics only has borgs that people only rarely sign up for, RIPLEYS that miners are the only ones who use and never ask for, Oddys that nobody ever asks for, and virtually no fancy toys to attach to either of them because Oddys can't use guns and RIPLEYS only have like five mods available.
Last edited by Lazengann on Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Armhulen
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Fucking COOLTokiko2 wrote:Make R&D do actual science.
Want a laser cannon? Better build a laser beam chamber and run experiments there to unlock it. Want a mech rocket launcher? Make a chemical bomb and detonate it in an observation chamber so the explosion can be analyzed by a machine. Tesla cannon? Make a tesla coil room and test stuff in there.
Just kidding, there is no time for fun science in 20 minute rounds.
- BeeSting12
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
This sounds really cool but who would code it and I'm not actually sure how it would workTokiko2 wrote:Make R&D do actual science.
Want a laser cannon? Better build a laser beam chamber and run experiments there to unlock it. Want a mech rocket launcher? Make a chemical bomb and detonate it in an observation chamber so the explosion can be analyzed by a machine. Tesla cannon? Make a tesla coil room and test stuff in there.
Just kidding, there is no time for fun science in 20 minute rounds.
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- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:31 pm
- Byond Username: DrBee
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
RPG style xp system linked to raising tech levels? you gain xp by running certain experiments and using a tool on them.BeeSting12 wrote:This sounds really cool but who would code it and I'm not actually sure how it would workTokiko2 wrote:Make R&D do actual science.
Want a laser cannon? Better build a laser beam chamber and run experiments there to unlock it. Want a mech rocket launcher? Make a chemical bomb and detonate it in an observation chamber so the explosion can be analyzed by a machine. Tesla cannon? Make a tesla coil room and test stuff in there.
Just kidding, there is no time for fun science in 20 minute rounds.
powerful prototypes have their own xp bars along side a tech level requirement.
so yeah, it would make you have to work towards the powerful stuff. I dont know what the experiments should be however.
- BeeSting12
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Power Manipulation:Dr_bee wrote:RPG style xp system linked to raising tech levels? you gain xp by running certain experiments and using a tool on them.BeeSting12 wrote:This sounds really cool but who would code it and I'm not actually sure how it would workTokiko2 wrote:Make R&D do actual science.
Want a laser cannon? Better build a laser beam chamber and run experiments there to unlock it. Want a mech rocket launcher? Make a chemical bomb and detonate it in an observation chamber so the explosion can be analyzed by a machine. Tesla cannon? Make a tesla coil room and test stuff in there.
Just kidding, there is no time for fun science in 20 minute rounds.
powerful prototypes have their own xp bars along side a tech level requirement.
so yeah, it would make you have to work towards the powerful stuff. I dont know what the experiments should be however.
Producing power somehow and running it through a machine, the more power the higher the level.
Weapons:
Firing current weapons at the test range, the more damage done to the target the more parts unlocked. These are only to assemble the base gun, other stuff has to be unlocked for the cool guns with abilities- base gun does pretty much nothing.
Electromagnetic:
Don't know, experimentation with EMPs seems kinda dumb but I actually don't know. Maybe a light spectrum minigame based on RNG, can't be worse than genetics.
Biological:
Take apart animals for organs on a specific table linked to a console, also slimes/xenobiology would have a big part in this. (more exotic animal, more biological)
Illegal:
Test out Syndicate items somehow, not sure how not much of an ideas guy.
Engineering:
Not sure about this one either. Engineering stuff is mainly power related.
- XDTM
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
I was thinking along the lines of a "pick-from-three" style of research, like stellaris, where every tier of research you can pick from a set of research projects, each with particular levels and unique benefits/gear, and missing out on the others; so as the levels go on you can hyperspecialize in, say, medical tech and get an actual reviver implant, but little from other categories, or go with a jack of all stats and miss out on the powerful stuff to get a more broad selection of utility items, weapons, and tools.
There were other elements which could be attached, like global upgrades, like autocloning, that would no longer require swapping stock parts and would be part of the machine's functionality once the particular research is completed.
As for the research itself, i thought of putting it into a time-gate and a resource gate for the later levels, so you can start the, say, Bluespace Storage research, and leave it running while you build some machinery or prepare an experiment or produce some gear for the crew, instead of being stuck pushing buttons. The research itself wouldn't be exciting, but it would be strategically significant instead of following a flowchart to get everything.
There were other elements which could be attached, like global upgrades, like autocloning, that would no longer require swapping stock parts and would be part of the machine's functionality once the particular research is completed.
As for the research itself, i thought of putting it into a time-gate and a resource gate for the later levels, so you can start the, say, Bluespace Storage research, and leave it running while you build some machinery or prepare an experiment or produce some gear for the crew, instead of being stuck pushing buttons. The research itself wouldn't be exciting, but it would be strategically significant instead of following a flowchart to get everything.
a.k.a. Duke Hayka
Coder of golems, virology, hallucinations, traumas, nanites, and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.
Coder of golems, virology, hallucinations, traumas, nanites, and a bunch of miscellaneous stuff.
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Ive always been a fan of that style of tactical decision making. the problem with that is biology doesnt magically stop existing when you choose to study physics for example. so it would be interesting but not really fit the theme of scientific research. maybe have the special projects be like that? every level or so you pick a special project to get a super good prototype (like the guns) but you lose out on 2 others for the time being when you pick one. so it will take a long time to get everything but you can get what you need or want now.XDTM wrote:I was thinking along the lines of a "pick-from-three" style of research, like stellaris, where every tier of research you can pick from a set of research projects, each with particular levels and unique benefits/gear, and missing out on the others; so as the levels go on you can hyperspecialize in, say, medical tech and get an actual reviver implant, but little from other categories, or go with a jack of all stats and miss out on the powerful stuff to get a more broad selection of utility items, weapons, and tools.
There were other elements which could be attached, like global upgrades, like autocloning, that would no longer require swapping stock parts and would be part of the machine's functionality once the particular research is completed.
As for the research itself, i thought of putting it into a time-gate and a resource gate for the later levels, so you can start the, say, Bluespace Storage research, and leave it running while you build some machinery or prepare an experiment or produce some gear for the crew, instead of being stuck pushing buttons. The research itself wouldn't be exciting, but it would be strategically significant instead of following a flowchart to get everything.
- Lazengann
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- Byond Username: Lazengann
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Tie a part of the proposed research overhaul to how much power is in the grid to give the supermatter a practical reason to be used
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
>MFW Kevinz spergs out because my engineering reward system would let engineers get advanced magboots because THATS TOO OP!!!
>MFW Kevinz then proceeds to add more superweapons to fucking RND
>MFW Kevinz then proceeds to add more superweapons to fucking RND
- Anonmare
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
I actually supported the concept of engineering having rewards.
- captain sawrge
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Sawrge
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
engineering rewards was literally the same shit
make the job interesting and satisfying instead of simply incentivizing boring garbage gameplay with out-of-place loot and calling it a solution
make the job interesting and satisfying instead of simply incentivizing boring garbage gameplay with out-of-place loot and calling it a solution
- danno
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
LOL TRUEOldman Robustin wrote:>MFW Kevinz spergs out because my engineering reward system would let engineers get advanced magboots because THATS TOO OP!!!
>MFW Kevinz then proceeds to add more superweapons to fucking RND
- Qbopper
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
wtf i like sawrge now???captain sawrge wrote:engineering rewards was literally the same shit
make the job interesting and satisfying instead of simply incentivizing boring garbage gameplay with out-of-place loot and calling it a solution
Limey wrote:its too late.
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
well the issue would be requiring actual gameplay to raise tech levels instead of following a boring flowchart of items, it isnt incentive, there is already all the reward you need from the current boring as fuck RnD system.captain sawrge wrote:engineering rewards was literally the same shit
make the job interesting and satisfying instead of simply incentivizing boring garbage gameplay with out-of-place loot and calling it a solution
also I actually liked engineering rewards for power generation, but tying power generation to RnD production would be a nice fun addition. If RnD wants its meme guns it better treat engineering well and give them what they ask for!
- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
- Byond Username: David273
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Power: Your idea is perfectBeeSting12 wrote:Power Manipulation:
Producing power somehow and running it through a machine, the more power the higher the level.
Weapons:
Firing current weapons at the test range, the more damage done to the target the more parts unlocked. These are only to assemble the base gun, other stuff has to be unlocked for the cool guns with abilities- base gun does pretty much nothing.
Electromagnetic:
Don't know, experimentation with EMPs seems kinda dumb but I actually don't know. Maybe a light spectrum minigame based on RNG, can't be worse than genetics.
Biological:
Take apart animals for organs on a specific table linked to a console, also slimes/xenobiology would have a big part in this. (more exotic animal, more biological)
Illegal:
Test out Syndicate items somehow, not sure how not much of an ideas guy.
Engineering:
Not sure about this one either. Engineering stuff is mainly power related.
Weapons: Guns are unlocked as research in other areas progresses and can be printed and used as it, however they require heavy testing in various situations in order to identify any malfunctions. After identifying the problem, inserting the gun into the experimentor and selecting the correct fix will fix the gun and update construction so future guns of that make won't have the same problem.
EMP: Collect samples of radiation such as from the SM, solar arrays, rad storms, teleporter, nuke, or just basic radium using a special device. The more different types you have the better!
Bluespace: Calibrate a machine similar to how the old quantum pads worked but instead of teleporting guns out of the armory you teleport anomalies and alien creatures into containment on a perfect hit, but if you fuck up calibration or miss your target you risk summoning eldritch abominations you have to fight off.
Data: Analyze various computer equipment and advanced machinery at work.
Mats: Feed the machine a bunch of mats to analyze.
Engineering: Build a machine that requires constant maintenance and is effectively a giant engineering optimization puzzle that you have to get the parts just right and keep functioning to spit out research.
Bio: Bring in alien creatures and dissect them on the table to research. Mistakes risk potentially destroying the specimen so some trial and error in the correct procedure may be required. Also ties in with bluespace because dissecting an eldrich abomination that bleeds poison and evaporates if you fuck up is cool.
Plasma: I dunno, find various applications for plasma?
Illegal: Use the strange devices found around maint to research-- the more the merrier.
Spoiler:
- cedarbridge
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 12:24 am
- Byond Username: Cedarbridge
Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
The constant addition of new gimmick guns used to be a newbie coder problem. Its really easy to just make a gun and make it shoot a thing that does a thing. Its a neat accomplishment to make babby's first gun work and then the newbie coder gets excited to get their new gun added. The problem is that they keep getting accepted. The solution is to stop adding new guns.
- ShadowDimentio
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
I dont, it just makes /tg/ more TDM than roleplay, we dont need more easier ways to kill people, it is already way to fucking easy, you dont get any interesting stories anymore when you need to kill someone, it is just magdump whatever meme gun RnD printed or you bought from your PDA and LOLUWIN.ShadowDimentio wrote:Guns are fine, I welcome any cool new guns.
on the subject of ranged weapons in general, I think damage and armor pen needs to be dropped, except maybe lasers, as they already do a reasonable 20 damage a hit.
Stechkin's 30 damage a hit and the revolver's whopping 60 damage per hit with high AP need to fucking go however, I dont care if they cost TCs. You should have to work to kill someone. Right now there are no counters to the high damage weapons because armor is useless and by the time you get shot once you get shot 2 more times and you are down for the count and cant even call out for help.
It would be better if you could talk in crit, at least call for help and maybe crawl around. Goonstation has this and it makes killing someone matter a bit more because they usually can shout your name before dieing. Makes creative and stealthy ways of murder much more valuable, like poisons and indirect methods of killing.
but enough about my rant about /tg/'s combat system.
- Steelpoint
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Armour Piercing ties to armour, as such you'll never get anything passed in terms of that.
Armour is where people go to die.
Armour is where people go to die.
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
never understood that. why would you make armor useless? if someone is using the equipment slot make it effective. that way you can actually design meaningful choices around the slot. right now armor is basically a glorified gun holder.Steelpoint wrote:Armour Piercing ties to armour, as such you'll never get anything passed in terms of that.
Armour is where people go to die.
The fact that a exosuit webbing PR got closed because it would always be taken over armor is less about storage creep and more about how absolutely shit armor is right now.
I would rather it be overpowered than useless, that way it would be desired by everyone, and you would have to consider the opportunity cost of not wearing it Vs. wearing other things like a spacesuit or biosuit.
- Steelpoint
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
Someone proposed buffing armour but making it inflict a slight slow down, that was closed as well.
No one knows what to do with armour so we just keep closing anyone who changes it.
I personally think armour should be reverted to its old values considering the mass proliferation of armour piercing, but I'm sure many disagree.
No one knows what to do with armour so we just keep closing anyone who changes it.
I personally think armour should be reverted to its old values considering the mass proliferation of armour piercing, but I'm sure many disagree.
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Re: 9000 guns and not a drop to drink
I dont know why making people harder to kill is a controversial proposal, when you instantly down someone you cant roleplay or gameplay around it. it is BORING. and that is a fucking cardinal sin in game design. right now we basically have buffed antags and gunplay so much that people dont want to play when they dont roll antag.Steelpoint wrote:Someone proposed buffing armour but making it inflict a slight slow down, that was closed as well.
No one knows what to do with armour so we just keep closing anyone who changes it.
I personally think armour should be reverted to its old values considering the mass proliferation of armour piercing, but I'm sure many disagree.
I know you often get accused of being overtly pro-security steelpoint, but coders often forget that other people can use security equipment too, and there is more than one way to get it, and currently the balance is very skewed towards antagonists given they have the ability to kill you or crit you without you being able to have time to so much as scream.
if you dont want to change armor, just let people talk and see in crit. you can still cant move, and you are still dying, but you can at least scream bloody murder over the radio.
plus hearing the screams of the injured and dying after some disaster like a bombing or nuke op invasion over the radio would be badass as hell.
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