[Kevinz000] Working against players interest IC.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Off record note: Kevinz goaded and invited me to make a complaint and so i shall

---

Byond account and character name: FantasticFwoosh - Morgan Cucker
Admin: Kevinz000
Time and server: Sybil, around 1:40 am GMT, August 30th - Round ID - 75449 - Map: Metastation.
Detailed summary: I was playing a normal HOP round latejoining 8 minutes into the action on a relatively quiet 20 person round, and suitably things had hit the fan as they do, power was not set up from roundstart and i did everything within my current existing boundaries and power (i dislike playing a shitty all access HOP) to try and fix the problem by prioritizing more engineers and other roles that never arrived, nobody was queuing up to volunteer. Having done that and things getting progressively worse i called the shuttle with a twenty minute ETA after a recent gunman had shot somebody, taking appropriate action that the situation was escalating.

• I did not know the person who was responsible for shooting had already been stopped but with power issues and a long timer i didn't consider recalling

• Before calling the captain had lost a game of russian roulette but fortunately to our suprise afterwards re-emerged from the cloning scanner as it seems they had took precautions beforehand, they weren't around during this decision making but added to the sense of panic for the shuttle call.

The HOS who for different reasons entirely that they were "bored" (not the most professional motivation) and that of course the traitors were coming out of the woodwork as the power got steadily worse (most rooms and hallways were entirely depowered) came into the bridge to ask me to swipe for red alert after i called the shuttle, we hung around there for a while (given there's no purpose to going back to unpowered rooms) and the captain suprisingly walked back in, he asked about the red alert and pretty much gave us his grace that we'd made at-least a unanimous command decision and he didn't intervene, then left for medbay for treatment for his cloning damage asking me to help him.

• The warden arrested me in the halls escorting the captain there and dragged me to the waiting escape shuttle brig, and he had to proceed alone from there alone and presumably from carsh's statement crawled into a cryotube by themselves, i did not see him again for the rest of the round.

They did not make a attempt to reclaim the ill and damaged captain who i was escorting to the medbay from bridge to fix their cloning, kevinz outright denied that the captain was alive in OOC afterwards, leaving them marooned and denying us chance for us to be vindicated by someone of higher authority of mekhi playing IC admin themselves and taking it into their own hands with Ispira. Ispira was very much the muscle and when the HOS tried to subdue them with a taser shot, they arrested us both, partially in the knowledge that it could have been escalated nobody used lethals at the time.

• OOC: Carshalash: nigga you left the captain dead in the cryotube - Probably because the warden arrested me to further validate my claim that kevinz was wrong and acted outside his stead. Would he have arrested the captain too if he was set on a full out mutiny?

Admittedly i did regrettably struggle (out of my handcuffs not resist arrest) and ask the detective to i quote "blow their brains out" which he did not, and that's the front of honesty on my part in this situation because i was also understandably irate at being detained for percieved no reason, especially with the HOS also detained across the room. The warden (Krystal Serpa/Ispira) had already conspired to arrest both of us purely for the actions of the shuttle call, and kevinz helped back them up by taking sole authority to instigate what was essentially a mutiny that he had decided (because admins can only discern legitimate mutinies, but at the time he was de-adminned) and keep us detained in shuttle brig for insubordination over calling the shuttle. Gloating the whole time that they were being 'light' on us.

• The warden took off my headset so that i could not 'scream for help' basically denying myself right to call the captain or anybody else

• Kevinz at the time of red alerting had crowbarred into engineering (doors depowered, it was that bad) and to his own words was annoyed we were stopping him from restoring power by leaving. - Truly a person of many talents, a security officer, admin, doctorate scientist AND a meddling engineer, most of all were not appropriate when he's the only security officer on station and we needed him for primary function while more job roles were queued up on priority.

• Prepared to trap people on a partially powered station while traitors (who also would want to leave in a meta-acknowledgement sense we dont talk about IC really) continue to roam (like really if any of them were serious about not leaving they could have emagged and killed command/me and recalled) whilst also doing all of RnD's workload & playing engineer in a effort to deprive people of jobs and FORCE the station to run.

• Rolling security officer with a science armband aswell as to basically max out RnD given opportunity is also a gross misuse of their time as more or less the only officer on duty at the time, ( its my own opinion: -> that if they are going to abuse additional access to do other peoples jobs for them (metagaming) or act their OOC/admin opinions on the current round, they should be enforced to be set on standard non-officer armband or job-banned if appropriate to discourage their behaviour and keep them on task unless they apply for IC permission to do so from HOP or otherwise.

Core arguement is that kevinz always put himself at the center of the action to prolong everything to his own OOC comments of that 40 minute rounds are fine, people got onto the shuttle all nice like and left for the round, him and the warden were the only people who could not accept this outcome and its of my belief that Kevinz000 took extra notice purely because he didn't have admin powers to recall or do things by force by threatening us with admin action nor could accept IC responsibilities and functions unless he's on top when he lacks power in subordinate roles vs non-antags.

Involved persons primarily

• Carlos Magno - Captain (Unknown to me)

• Nikolas Garneys - HOS (Woross)

• Morgan Cucker - HOP (Myself)

• Krystal Serpa - Warden (Ispira)

• Skylar Lineman - Officer (Kevinz000)

Thats just a list of people involved i also wrote down for my own reference while compiling this complaint, i hope this is comprehensive and atleast useful, i can admit many of us are far from perfect, kevinz included but the applied scope of the 'consequences' for calling really was outside of kevinz's expected concerns as a officer as much as securing the shuttle for departure after acting command makes a decision safely. Keeping the shuttle/station safe was all he was tasked to do, nobody is going to give a medal for arresting your superiors because they did something they personally disagreed with.

[Slignerd]

Just from the title, it sounds like an IC issue. It should also be noted that admin complaints typically aren't for complaining at what admins do as regular players, but rather what they do as admins.

Frankly, I'm not sure how many people are even going to bother reading that wall of text. Maybe you should try being a bit more concise and to the point on what exactly went wrong?

[Lazengann]

Basically fwoosh called the shuttle and red alerted at first opportunity because nobody set up power and he wasn't in the mood to do it himself, and there was some vague traitor activity

The security team decided they'd set up power themselves so they overthrew fwoosh cause they didn't want the shuttle to come that early

Fwoosh also complained about kevinz doing science as an officer with science access but really who gives a shit about that, research getting done just improves the game for everyone else playing it

[Slignerd]

Oh, then I was right, 100% IC issue.

[FantasticFwoosh]

You weren't involved with the issue and shouldn't be commenting, but i mention this as a conflict of interest where Kevinz brought in their admin views into the current round rather than staying based In IC and stepping away for a little bit. A blatent conflict of interest because he was not adminned at the time is my belief to coerce me or command into acting otherwise.

Wheras on particular topic and issues, im fine with people commenting certain areas as IC only, but this is against Kevinz conduct, given they re-adminned as only admin on the server after the round had finished.

Its a lot of ground to cover, my best piece of advice is to take your time or read it paragraph & attached smaller bulletpointed notes at a time, essentially there's 3 stages, details around calling between the heads and myself, the arrest and what happened between the warden and myself, and the shuttle and what mekhi was doing in the background of all this.

Basically fwoosh called the shuttle and red alerted at first opportunity because nobody set up power and he wasn't in the mood to do it himself, and there was some vague traitor activity

The security team decided they'd set up power themselves so they overthrew fwoosh cause they didn't want the shuttle to come that early

Fwoosh also complained about kevinz doing science as an officer with science access but really who gives a shit about that, research getting done just improves the game for everyone else playing it

I do not know how to set up the power, You have imparted the sole blame onto myself when that's not true, it takes two to tango and the HOS suggesting that we red alert was to both of our mutual interests as the only two relevant living heads at the time while the captain was being cloned (unknowingly to us after they had died to a russian roulette), captain was fine with it too, not to rehash the arguement too much.

*KEVINZ tried to setup power themselves, the warden simply helped enforce our unnessecary overthrowing as per petty revenge rather than maintaining station security by basically arresting their own "team". Also kevinz has better more important things to do within their role as a lone officer and there were atmos techs around and engineers set to high priority who idly stood around and did nothing. (I wasn't aware kevinz was fixing things either, he did all of this without giving as much as any notice)

Again if you weren't there you shouldn't be commenting as per rules, but im giving you a fair response.

[kevinz000]

alright i was about to take a nap but:
the only time I'd say I acted out of line is going "make an admin complaint or drop it".
You called the shuttle on green alert afaik because of 1. a gunman that I already transported to the brig dead in cuffs and 2. the power being out (even though I said I was about to start the engine) and 3. the captain was dead (because he played fucking russian roulette with the detective).
Shuttle gets red alerted right before I could get the engine up.
I asked you why and you said the remaining heads of staff decided to leave.
I asked the HoS why and all I got after multiple attempts even after I cuffed him was "I'm bored".

It's an emergency shuttle.
It's not a boredom shuttle.

Afterwards in OOC the HoS said that he just wanted to kill all the antags and call the shuttle to end the round. What the fuck kind of playstyle is that?

So yeah. IC issue but I fault myself for going "make a complaint or drop it" so there's that. The shuttle was red alerted because of 1. the HoS being bored and 2. you thinking there's a traitor going around shooting people even though I already said I dealt with them and the power being off even though I was about to start the engine.
I don't see how either me or the warden did anything wrong neither IC nor OOC apart from the possible one line goading.

You two called a shuttle because of a nonexistant threat, boredom, and power loss which was right about to be remedied by me.
You two got rightfully mutinied.

BTW according to the warden the captain didn't know why it was red alerted and I'd trust a competent warden over a HoS who kept going "because I'm bored" when asked why the shuttle was red alerted.
Also you said something about "you're a cop don't get involved". Security's job is NOT to just dunk the antags. Security is far as I'm aware allowed to mutiny shit heads of staff and from my perspective and opinion as a player you and the HoS are shit heads of staff.

[kevinz000]

also >ic admin
no i considered you a shit head of staff along with the HoS so I helped the warden arrest and put you both harmlessly in the shuttle brig (and the HoS was screaming at a scientist to detonate the shuttle, what the fuck?).
it'd be ic admin if I arrested the HoS for the OOC in IC that he did right near roundstart but no it's not IC admin to mutiny against shit heads of staff once again.

I also find it funny that the HoS player can call me out for powergaming the engine and R&D when no one else was going to set up the engine nor do R&D (engine's more important though) when their mindset is kill all antags and leave.
also gee fwoosh didn't know that the only use of my time i can do as an officer is constantly look for valids even after the only discovered antag during the round was dealt with by their target.

yet more edits: i believe ispiria said this but why the fuck are you blaming me for marooning a captain when you red alerted the shuttle barely giving me time to go back to the brig and get ready to go? last i checked the captain was being dragged to cloning by someone so I assumed they were going to be fine. i regret not checking up on him but can you really blame me for doctors or whoever did it decided to put him in a cryo cell and forget him there?

yet still more edits because im tired and i suck at forumposting: yeah ok when I heard the captain was stuck the shuttle was 30-40 seconds from departure. Maybe he shouldn't play russian roulette as a CAPTAIN of all things?

[FantasticFwoosh]

At each stage i wasn't aware in a change of circumstances of each, i only found out about the gunman being subdued after they were stopped and the ETA was a 20 minutes on green, i only found out you were fixing the power (because why man?) when it was red alerted afterwards but it was already set in motion and the whole station was a lost cause. I was doubtful there was even enough juice to even go through the emitters. So that's my IC understanding.

Shuttle gets red alerted right before I could get the engine up.

You couldn't get the engine up (typo). YOU. You're the only person invested in this at all, and you are along with the warden were the only real people to actually do anything about it, you are also a admin, and wanted to keep a round going much longer, obvious breach of interest where you overstepped IC decisions that really are none of your business unless you make it your business, but arresting us doesn't change the outcome because. Where was asking people to vote on it? Where was any form of negotiation? You kept your comms pretty much off except for the whole purpose to whine how we were ruining YOUR round.

> What the HOS does is the HOS's problem, they can speak for themselves but the captain approved it and you left the captain to rot because you IC understood they were dead understandably. It was convenient for both of our interests, at the end of the day he's shitty but still your superior and captain above him.

It was genuinely none of your business IC wise, then you made it your business purely because you couldn't bully us by bwoinking with admin tools to effectively keep a round you were trying to artificially extend, then considered the two heads valid to arrest by self asserting a mutiny or insubordination (whatever)

yet more edits: i believe ispiria said this but why the fuck are you blaming me for marooning a captain when you red alerted the shuttle barely giving me time to go back to the brig and get ready to go? last i checked the captain was being dragged to cloning by someone so I assumed they were going to be fine. i regret not checking up on him but can you really blame me for doctors or whoever did it decided to put him in a cryo cell and forget him there?

You told me the captain was dead in OOC, again a lack of communication but ok i accept that as much and rescind that part of my statement.

I also find it funny that the HoS player can call me out for powergaming the engine and R&D when no one else was going to set up the engine nor do R&D (engine's more important though) when their mindset is kill all antags and leave.
also gee fwoosh didn't know that the only use of my time i can do as an officer is constantly look for valids even after the only discovered antag during the round was dealt with by their target.

Well definitely if you're using your armband exclusively to do RnD then a job change to scientist might be more appropriate for you, but pretty much excluding your sarcasm, you are the frontline force versus security threats as well as a member of the crew. Again the HOS can answer for themselves for having a terrible playstyle, you're the person we're talking about here.

[Limski]

>forum specific for incidences of admin abuse
>posts about someones conduct as a player

keep your stupid fucking drama episode in the hut

[FantasticFwoosh]

>forum specific for incidences of admin abuse
>posts about someones conduct as a player

keep your stupid fucking drama episode in the hut

They abused their position by conflict of interest while not actively being adminned but still the only admin online at the time in a ick-ock sense.

[Arianya]

Did kevinz threaten you or try to actively make you change your IC decision by touting their position as an admin?

No?

Then his position is irrelevant.

[kevinz000]

... you're assuming i'd bwoink you for calling the shuttle in the same situation because i supported a mutiny?
nani the fuck?

once again i argue the only ooc fuckup i did here was going "admin complaint or drop it". honestly i didn't think you would be seroius and I said that as a partial joke but I understand that was goading so I'm not going to go "LOL IC ISSUE IN ADMIN COMPLAINTS".

[Ispiria]

So first of all, hi! I'm Ispiria, the warden (Krystal Serpa) who was mentioned a few times in this post. I kinda figured Fwoosh here would be attempting to misrepresent the situation, since that's what he did for about half an hour afterwards in OOC, but I was hoping he'd have at least tried to think a little about why the round ended up that way, and maybe adjust his stance a little. Oh well!

One at a time, then;

Nothing, at all, had hit any sort of fan, real or imaginary, in any way, shape, or form. There were exactly two traitors this round, and both of them had run-ins with sec - the first being scared off from his initial attempt to rob the captain's office, the second being killed and then captured while trying to assassinate the xenobiologist. The round was, from the very start, under an extremely fluid and capable degree of control due to a responsive and communicative security team. We had a single issue in the form of a failing power grid, but a volunteer (I'll admit it, it was Skylar/Kevinz) was on their way to set up the engine and resolve this at the time the issue occurred.

We were roughly fourty-some minutes in at this point, and the power dipping was the only major threat to the station. The shuttle had been called, but negotiations to have it recalled were under way - specifically, we in security were attempting to explain to the HoP and HoS who apparently weren't aware that there was no genuine threat worthy of an emergency evacuation. The reason, in fact, given for the shuttle call was "a gunman on the loose", but as the announcement was being given Skylar was dragging the gunman's corpse through the brig doors. This was the situation we were trying to explain, Skylar on his way to engineering with the dead traitor entrusted to me, when the red alert went off.

We immediately began demanding a recall and questioning why a red alert had been deemed necessary - there was no fire, no breaches or gas leaks, no active traitors causing havoc. A few lights had gone out, but aside from that there were zero active threats to the station, and a red alert was absolutely uncalled for. In fact, given the three or four remaining minutes we had on the shuttle timer prior to the red alert, Skylar may well have rigged the engine and we'd have full facilities restored. With red alert active, however, we had about a minute and a half before it would be too late, and at that point there was simply no reason to try the engine anymore.

The only response I got from either the HoP or the HoS was "we're bored". I don't know what sort of world these individuals live in where boredom is a genuine emergency necessitating immediate evacuation, but it's a different world from the one I inhabit. Despite our repeated assertions that a shuttle call, let alone a red alert shuttle call, was unnecessary, and that a further reason would need to be provided, the two stayed the course and insisted on abandoning ship.

Determined not to just let this slide, I began heading towards the bridge myself to speak with them in person and insist that we at least try to make a go of it, or to find out whether the captain himself had authorized this for whatever reason - being that the captain is the only one who ought to be authorizing evacuations anyway. However, by the time I reached the bridge, there were only a few seconds left before it would be too late, and rather than any kind of reasoned argument or justification, I heard instead the captain himself asking why they'd red alerted.

It was at this point that I decided to arrest both the HoS and the HoP for desertion.

That's right, I'm the one who made the decision here. Despite Fwoosh's attempts to pin the blame on Kevinz, I was the one, as warden, who decided that the heads were abusing their authority to evacuate the station because they were personally too bored with no valids to hunt, and I was going to arrest them for deserting a perfectly serviceable station out of sheer self-indulgence.

I returned to the brig to arm myself with a backup taser in case I spent all my charge trying to capture one, and happened across Skylar waiting patiently to head to evac now that there was no point setting up the engine. I told him my intentions of arresting both of the derelict heads of staff, and his only reply was a nod - nothing more or less. I grabbed the gear I needed and we headed for evac.

Near the medbay we passed the HoP - who I was looking out for, I didn't see the captain but he may have been present and I overlooked him with my tunnel vision - and I distracted him by saying "HoP", which he stopped to reply to, and I nailed him with a taser shot and cuffed him. Didn't remove his headset, didn't take his gear, just started marching towards evac with him. Along the way we passed the HoS, who the HoP had attempted to call for help, and the HoS tried to take him away but I ran to the shuttle with him. We boarded the shuttle, I buckled the HoP to a security seat and began to explain he was under arrest for desertion, and then the HoS stunbatoned me.

This was the first moment Skylar stepped in, tazing the HoS and cuffing him as well. HoS found himself buckled in across the aisle from the HoP, and only then did we remove their headsets, now that they were both being treated as captured criminals. The two spent the rest of the shift shouting abuse and challenges at us. There may have been a bit of what could be considered gloating from our side, but I really endeavor to remain in-character during conflicts like this, and my stance was strictly one of a security personnel against two heads of staff abandoning their posts for personal, selfish reasons.

If it is indeed true that the captain was left behind during this, it was purely accidental on our part as we were attempting to detain two deserters to the station. In any case, the captain most certainly would not have been left behind had the shuttle not been called and red alerted for spurious reasons.

tl;dr

HoP and HoS red alerted an unneeded evac shuttle, ending an otherwise smooth and controlled round because they were bored, and found themselves arrested by a disgruntled security team.

[kevinz000]

"Well definitely if you're using your armband exclusively to do RnD then a job change to scientist might be more appropriate for you, but pretty much excluding your sarcasm, you are the frontline force versus security threats as well as a member of the crew. Again the HOS can answer for themselves for having a terrible playstyle, you're the person we're talking about here."
did i ignore the guy breaking into the captain's office to powergame rnd?
no.
did i ignore it when warden told us something was going on at xenobio?
no.
i dunno man once again do you expect me to prowl halls and maint constantly looking for valids or what?

[FantasticFwoosh]

It was the HOS who claimed they were bored, i was doing it out of my perception of the current situation as i've already explained.

Yes i know you conspired to arrest us, and you went over this is the relatively heated OOC discussion. Kevinz however assumed leadership of the situation and arresting both of us (and you actively subduing the HOS) was your part, he's the one who got mithered the most by the decision for counteracting the things he was doing. I can understand partially but dont you have more professional duties to be doing rather than dunking your superiors for non-issues? At any time kevinz could have remembered his job and position within the department and arrested you instead but he took charge of the mutiny.

> Im not partial to the security logs with my generic HOP headset and would like to know how much discussion about this topic was actually aired.

Did kevinz threaten you or try to actively make you change your IC decision by touting their position as an admin?

No?

Then his position is irrelevant.

They were in a position where they couldn't change the outcome when the shuttle had arrived rather than just forcefully say yes his position IS relevant, i simply say its inconclusive and it needs to be brought into further consideration.

If we were not on the bridge where he is incapable of getting to us at that present time as many of the heads lingered while it still had power compared to the droves of people stuck in the dark powerless halls outside, it is my opinion that the security team would have stripped us of our ID and self recalled.

... you're assuming i'd bwoink you for calling the shuttle in the same situation because i supported a mutiny?
nani the fuck?

As the sole 'admin' even if not active you pretty much verified your own mutiny at your discretion, actually bwoinking us would not be nessecary but with the admin tools you could just force a recall anyway and tell us to grow a pair in the centcomm statement later. Lacking said ability IC all you can do is whine and try to punish us for doing what we felt was right for our own reasons in superior command roles.

Bwoinking would be the more extreme end, but admins have many tools to get what they want, even a prayer whisper to ask us not to or enquire why.

---

i dunno man once again do you expect me to prowl halls and maint constantly looking for valids or what?

I dont know if you're too far into the static player image to stop but if you can't find anything other than validhunt and respond to dispatch calls boring, outside of talking to people and a little bit of recreational RP in the meantime then there's always other careers* to be doing.

[onleavedontatme]

I can't remember if I hallucinated this or actually wrote it down somewhere but I intended for people to be allowed to make ban requests against admins using complaints since only headmins are really willing to ban other admins

That said this thread has already gotten so long and unreadable I doubt anyone is going to want to pursue this

[Cobby]

Can you just say what the complaint is for in the shortest amount of words possible? What did kevinz actually do wrong in your eyes?

You've literally wrote so much your actual gripe is either hidden in the walls of text [ I did read the OP ] or you just don't really have anything tangible.

[Ispiria]

I announced the planned mutiny.

I fired the first taser shot.

I applied the first handcuffs.

I laid down the baton during the shuttle ride so you couldn't unbuckle.

Kevinz' contribution was backing me up the one time I was taken down, which as an officer supporting his warden during a legitimized mutiny, was his correct and proper duty.

If there is any complaint to be made here, it is against me, not Kevinz. Also, there is no complaint to be made here. Don't be an abusive head of staff.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Ok this is my best attempt in the most condensed way:

I was just doing my job as HOP and a member of command, the HOS has a bad playstyle which people assume = command is bad but they can speak for themselves. Kevinz is trying to extend the round IC'ly and generally rule 2 metagaming around the station to cover all the jobs to allow it to keep running for longer when they are a singular police officer with their own OOC intentions at heart rather than playing the current round in their job (for the most part)

Acting command calls for their own reasons, reasons emerged come to pass but its too late to stop now and power is still iffy, kevinz is non-min and annoyed, and capitalises on the anger of the warden to self validate a mutiny and detain us in order to IC punish us. His views as a (deadmin / Sleepmin?) came into the round and he lacked the understanding of authority of the decision that had been made IC'ly but didn't have the power to revert it so made it as uncomfortable as possible without breaking any blatent rules.

On part of everyone in command who agreed, people trapped in the halls, probably a handful of traitors who would have illigitimately called,even though there was suprise over it, everyone got on the shuttle and to the next round anyway kevinz could not accept we ruined HIS round. (see second paragraph of self validating a mutiny short of actually breaking any rules to valid us) meanwhile captain was not around to tell kevinz otherwise. The mutiny was a tool to gain IC power and self justify his actions that only he has access to at the time.

---

I announced the planned mutiny.

I fired the first taser shot.

I applied the first handcuffs.

I laid down the baton during the shuttle ride so you couldn't unbuckle.

Kevinz' contribution was backing me up the one time I was taken down, which as an officer supporting his warden during a legitimized mutiny, was his correct and proper duty.

If there is any complaint to be made here, it is against me, not Kevinz. Also, there is no complaint to be made here. Don't be an abusive head of staff.

He is the one required to nod his head for it to happen, you were just the executive means of letting it happen, without you he would have likely arrested us himself.

> but there's no certain way to know that but most definitely he was completely okay with how proceedings played out as he gloated about our insubordination.

[Slignerd]

and generally rule 2 metagaming around the station to cover all the jobs to allow it to keep running for longer when they are a singular police officer

Except rule 2 clearly states "characters are otherwise allowed to know everything about ingame mechanics or antagonists"? Why is that even a part of the complaint?

Everything else in your post is really just "he mutinied against me because he disagreed with my decision to call the shuttle early" woven around in word salad in order to insert "and that's not okay, because he's an admin" here and there.

[FantasticFwoosh]

and generally rule 2 metagaming around the station to cover all the jobs to allow it to keep running for longer when they are a singular police officer

Except rule 2 clearly states "characters are otherwise allowed to know everything about ingame mechanics or antagonists"?

Fair enough, good catch, but to apply it in total lack of absence of the people supposed to be doing it (who were queued up on HOP priorities console) when they have a large amount of responsibilities elsewhere? This isn't exactly a assistant we're talking about.

[kevinz000]

Once again I hope you don't honestly expect me to do nothing but security work after I already did all the security work there was to be done for the time being.

[Slignerd]

Fair enough, good catch, but to apply it in total lack of absence of the people supposed to be doing it (who were queued up on HOP priorities console) when they have a large amount of responsibilities elsewhere? This isn't exactly a assistant we're talking about.

You dislike that, we know.

But it's not breaking the rules in any way, so it's completely irrelevant.

[Archie700]

His main gripe is that kevinz000 and the warden mutinied against him for calling the shuttle and red-alerting it.
It turns out from the logs at https://atlantaned.space/newSS13tools/r ... &logs=true

Code: Select all

	[10:41:58]	93,91,2	SAY: 	Carlos Magno/SoyChaga: cancel the shutle

The captain was revived BEFORE the shuttle call, and even wanted the shuttle to be cancelled. So apparently NO ONE went to check on him before calling.

Code: Select all

2371	[10:37:14]	132,62,2	EMOTE: 	StarBerryShot/(Fucks-Up-Everything): Fucks-Up-Everything seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless...
2383	[10:37:24]	132,61,2	SAY: 	Jeremy Leslie/BHat0451: Fucks up Everything is a no-good filthy traitor.
2390	[10:37:30]	132,61,2	SAY: 	Jeremy Leslie/BHat0451: Almost killed me by pumping me full of lead.
2396	[10:37:34]	132,61,2	SAY: 	Jeremy Leslie/BHat0451: They're dead now.
2728	[10:41:41]		GAME: 	Shuttle call reason: Nobody got time for a turbine engine via 101 atmos techs and there's a loose gunman, lets get out of dodge while we can

Gunman was killed before the shuttle call.

Code: Select all

2420	[10:37:51]	102,169,2	SAY: 	Krystal Serpa/Ispiria: Talkin' to you, Jeremy
2421	[10:37:51]	132,63,2	SAY: 	Jeremy Leslie/BHat0451: They tried fucking murdering me.
2422	[10:37:54]	162,172,2	SAY: 	Poly/: AS LONG AS IT DOESNT HURT ME
2423	[10:37:55]		ATTACK: 	Cap. Clown(portalvector) disarmed Jimmy Topside(outcastmaine) with  pushing them to the ground (NEWHP: 100)
2424	[10:37:58]	132,63,2	SAY: 	Jeremy Leslie/BHat0451: Didn't you hear the radio, dammit?!!

And it was told through radio.

Code: Select all

144	[10:06:51]		ACCESS: 	Mob Login: Watcher032/(Huehu) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
145	[10:06:51]		ACCESS: 	Mob Login: StarBerryShot/(Fucks-Up-Everything) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
146	[10:06:51]		ACCESS: 	Mob Login: FancyCyclops/(Joseph Jobs) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
147	[10:06:51]		ACCESS: 	Mob Login: BHat0451/(Jeremy Leslie) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
148	[10:06:51]		ACCESS: 	Mob Login: DimmaDunk/(Sebastian Schrader) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
149	[10:06:51]		ACCESS: 	Mob Login: Carshalash/(Amaretto) was assigned to a /mob/living/silicon/ai
150	[10:06:51]		ACCESS: 	Mob Login: SoyChaga/(Carlos Magno) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
151	[10:06:51]		ACCESS: 	Mob Login: OutcastMaine/(Jimmy Topside) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
152	[10:06:51]		ACCESS: 	Mob Login: Oyonderbear/(Throws-The-Book) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
153	[10:06:51]		ACCESS: 	Mob Login: Terminus007/(Bill Waker) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
154	[10:06:51]		ACCESS: 	Mob Login: Kevinz000/(Skylar Lineman) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
155	[10:06:51]		ACCESS: 	Mob Login: Saul_Myers/(Kurtis Stryker) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
156	[10:06:51]		ACCESS: 	Mob Login: Shirbu/(Gerald Mendoza) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
2728	[10:41:41]		GAME: 	Shuttle call reason: Nobody got time for a turbine engine via 101 atmos techs and there's a loose gunman, lets get out of dodge while we can
2729	[10:41:41]		GAME: 	FantasticFwoosh/(Morgan Cucker) has called the shuttle.
3089	[10:45:52]		GAME: 	FantasticFwoosh/(Morgan Cucker) triggered and Woross/(Nikolas Garneys) confirmed event Red Alert

And round started at 10:06, and they called shuttle at 10:41, and red alerted at 10:45.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Once again I hope you don't honestly expect me to do nothing but security work after I already did all the security work there was to be done for the time being.

The funny thing is that by extending the round, eventually you are going to penultimately run out of security things to do once all antagonists eventually meet their demise, and in your own words "Once again I hope you don't honestly expect me to do nothing but security work".

Yes. Yes most usual people would expect you to do nothing but security work except for the small slot of time you have free to RP or something, which seems evident you fill up by doing other people's jobs for them ruining their progression, and then get annoyed at people disrupting you halfway through enough to self trigger a mutiny.

---

The HOS walked in after i'd done it and asked to red alert, again it takes two to tango, 20 or 5 minutes station security was in my mind that the situation was only getting worse progressively. It felt longer in person, but what am i really to do? Captain was still free to de-escalate and call it off at leisure when they came back as the third penultimate

This actually raises a good point, how soon did kevinz announce they were fixing the engine between the gunman being dead at call and red alert, i've actually forgotten if you want to go log diving. Seems pretty fast to run from subduing a gunman straight to the engine.

I dont know exactly what mekhi was doing before i arrived 8 minutes into the round.

---

Edit - Well you've certainly wobbled me off, it wasn't in my scope of perception that the captain wished it otherwise. Hmm.

They didn't actively stop us when we met up later. So its really at their own discretion, if i am to respect the HOS's and my own input, i have to respect his too.

> either that or the didn't know how to stop the shuttle call as per inexprienced captain - Im looking at statbus now to gather my own data.

Code: Select all

2813	[10:42:43]	106,134,2	SAY: 	Morgan Cucker/FantasticFwoosh: its on a slow boat with plenty of time to recall

It seems like i forgot about this, whoops. Yeah, its been a round between here and now. It was green alert with 20:00 ETA, so i was relaxed about it initially.

• Then it became a exceptionally fast boat.

[Slignerd]

The funny thing is that by extending the round, eventually you are going to penultimately run out of security things to do once all antagonists eventually meet their demise, and in your own words "Once again I hope you don't honestly expect me to do nothing but security work".

Yes. Yes most usual people would expect you to do nothing but security work except for the small slot of time you have free to RP or something, which seems evident you fill up by doing other people's jobs for them ruining their progression, and then get annoyed at people disrupting you halfway through enough to self trigger a mutiny.

Again, not part of server rules. Keep your personal gripe with how anyone can do any job to your penultimate self.

I also hate it when a clown slips me with a banana peel, but he's not in any way forbidden from doing so, and it doesn't break any of the rules, so I don't go writing admin complaints about it.

[onleavedontatme]

I just realized this thread is basically a rehash of "moonlighting is not okay"

[Slignerd]

Yep, basically. This whole thread can be summed up as "mutiny and moonlighting"

[FantasticFwoosh]

Code: Select all

Skylar Lineman/Kevinz000: Morgan what the fuck why are you forcing a shuttle call because you're bored?

Good old gem, somehow they assume its purely me. Thats understandable because HOP is capable of forging access, but im not a shitty hop like that.

Code: Select all

3336	[10:48:22]	103,136,2	SAY: 	Carlos Magno/SoyChaga: well

Code: Select all

3344	[10:48:26]	103,136,2	SAY: 	Carlos Magno/SoyChaga: you have right

The captain conceded we had the right to call and left it at that, even though they weren't exactly in retrospect (am i recalling it in tinted glasses? I dont know i have to think about that) enormously happy about it.

Code: Select all

3474	[10:49:30]	103,136,2	SAY: 	Morgan Cucker/FantasticFwoosh: Cap approves it too

Code: Select all

3496	[10:49:41]	107,144,2	SAY: 	Skylar Lineman/Kevinz000: our captain lpayed russian roulette

And kevinz refuses the captains existance.

I just realized this thread is basically a rehash of "moonlighting is not okay"

It amuses me to hear that, but i assure you it is not by intention or design.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Did kevinz threaten you or try to actively make you change your IC decision by touting their position as an admin?

No?

Then his position is irrelevant.

Code: Select all

3863	[10:52:54]	98,53,2	SAY: 	Skylar Lineman/Kevinz000: You know Centcom wouldn't give a shit if you were actually murdered for that, right?

Double posting because pretty relevant people see this abstracted from the rest.

[kevinz000]

I'm quoting something from another round.
If I meant this round it's handling my own ahelp. (As in it was no way a threat to you with admin powers for the current round, I was putting a semi precedent from another round in ic terms.)

[Archie700]

Code: Select all

3311	[10:48:00]	106,137,2	SAY: 	Carlos Magno/SoyChaga: why, now whe cant  cancel the shuttle

He still wanted to cancel it after the moment had passed.

Code: Select all

3189   [10:46:49]   107,134,2   SAY:    Nikolas Garneys/Woross: hello captain
3190   [10:46:50]   106,133,2   SAY:    Morgan Cucker/FantasticFwoosh: wait
3191   [10:46:50]   106,127,2   SAY:    Krystal Serpa/Ispiria: Not a fuckin' boredom shuttle
3192   [10:46:50]   138,56,2   EMOTE:    (grey baby slime (373)): The grey baby slime (373) jiggles!
[b]3193   [10:46:51]   106,135,2   SAY:    Carlos Magno/SoyChaga: what
3194   [10:46:52]   106,135,2   SAY:    Carlos Magno/SoyChaga: happen

And he had less than 30 seconds to recall before you interrupted him.

[Arianya]

Did kevinz threaten you or try to actively make you change your IC decision by touting their position as an admin?

No?

Then his position is irrelevant.

Code: Select all

3863	[10:52:54]	98,53,2	SAY: 	Skylar Lineman/Kevinz000: You know Centcom wouldn't give a shit if you were actually murdered for that, right?

Double posting because pretty relevant people see this abstracted from the rest.

Code: Select all

You=======================3               Anything Tangibly Complainable About
            ^
            |
         Reaching

[FantasticFwoosh]

I'm quoting something from another round.
If I meant this round it's handling my own ahelp.

You said that during that round in the shuttle, meanwhile im retrained across the room with the HOS against the shuttle brig door. I can see the chatlog clearly from statbus.

Code: Select all

3863	[10:52:54]	98,53,2	SAY: 	Skylar Lineman/Kevinz000: You know Centcom wouldn't give a shit if you were actually murdered for that, right?
3864	[10:52:54]		ATTACK: 	Krystal Serpa(ispiria) stunned Morgan Cucker(fantasticfwoosh) with  (NEWHP: 100)
3865	[10:52:55]	97,55,2	SAY: 	Nikolas Garneys/Woross: WOOOOOOOWEEEE
3867	[10:52:57]	185,27,11	SAY: 	Skylar Lineman/Kevinz000: I've seen precedent HoS
3874	[10:53:03]	185,27,11	SAY: 	Skylar Lineman/Kevinz000: And so far you're getting off light.
3904	[10:53:22]	185,24,11	SAY: 	Morgan Cucker/FantasticFwoosh: You're threatening us?
3906	[10:53:23]	183,26,11	SAY: 	Nikolas Garneys/Woross: you'd start doing retarded shit like R&D or something like that
3907	[10:53:24]	185,27,11	SAY: 	Skylar Lineman/Kevinz000: I dunno you're bored we're not.
3915	[10:53:28]	185,24,11	SAY: 	Morgan Cucker/FantasticFwoosh: Go blow your own dick
3921	[10:53:33]	185,27,11	SAY: 	Skylar Lineman/Kevinz000: Research, the reason we're here
3927	[10:53:37]	185,27,11	SAY: 	Skylar Lineman/Kevinz000: Didn't know that was retarded.

Code: Select all

3988	[10:54:01]	185,27,11	SAY: 	Skylar Lineman/Kevinz000: Morgan I was half a minute away from restoring powers
4015	[10:54:15]	185,27,11	SAY: 	Skylar Lineman/Kevinz000: And why not when you're clearly incapable of doing your job

Tis truly delicious, if you want to claim responsiblity ispira here's your logs too, funny how its our fault for leaving the captain behind when you remove our radio so we can't hear the captain calling for help after arresting us.

Code: Select all

3663	[10:51:10]		ATTACK: 	Krystal Serpa(ispiria) has thrown the head of personnel's headset with   
4051	[10:54:39]	185,24,11	SAY: 	Morgan Cucker/FantasticFwoosh: You left the captain behind
4057	[10:54:43]	185,24,11	SAY: 	Morgan Cucker/FantasticFwoosh: Nice job both of you
4074	[10:54:51]	185,24,11	SAY: 	Morgan Cucker/FantasticFwoosh: I was escorting them to medical
4080	[10:54:54]	184,24,11	SAY: 	Krystal Serpa/Ispiria: Cap wouldn't have been left behind if we hadn't fuckin' left
4085	[10:54:56]	185,24,11	SAY: 	Morgan Cucker/FantasticFwoosh: So great
4091	[10:55:00]	216,74,1	SAY: 	Krystal Serpa/Ispiria: You redalerted the goddamn shuttle
4095	[10:55:02]	216,74,1	SAY: 	Krystal Serpa/Ispiria: It's on you

This was hardly the wisest decision when the cap is comatose and near dying in their own words to remove my headset, the only person who gave a damn because you blamed me for your own shortfallings.

Code: Select all

4052	[10:54:41]	107,176,2	SAY: 	Carlos Magno/SoyChaga: left me in coma

Code: Select all

3311	[10:48:00]	106,137,2	SAY: 	Carlos Magno/SoyChaga: why, now whe cant  cancel the shuttle

And he had less than 30 seconds to recall before you interrupted him.

Well least i can admit thats a shitty circumstance, he is the authority that pales out us both and even walked into bridge, he had those 30 seconds to forcefully stop if he really wanted to (i wouldnt have stopped him) but i see your point, the HOS from revision of logs is a lot more eager to leave than i was, if anything my own shortfalling in honesty was a small amount of apathy towards the action.

• The captain is responsible for their own messes in a capacity if they die to a russ revolver and have to spend time in cloning, but yeah, shitty circumstances.

We've yet to actually hear from SoyChaga in the thread though, so they might be newish. Hmm.

[Slignerd]

When you red alert the shuttle 40 minutes into the round, you really don't get to complain about anyone getting marooned.

Code: Select all

3915	[10:53:28]	185,24,11	SAY: 	Morgan Cucker/FantasticFwoosh: Go blow your own dick

I'm not sure what you even expected. Did you think that after you tell him that, he'd be all "I'm sorry sir, I'll remove your restrains right away, let me get your stuff back"?

[Wyzack]

Jesus christ fwoosh you are a glutton for punishment

[cedarbridge]

This thread sure is a lot of non-actionable words.

[onleavedontatme]

Sometimes I have doubts about the removal of ban requests so I would like to thank Fwoosh for reminding me how terrible they were. Every wasted paragraph in this thread is proof it was one of the more positive things I've done for the community.

[FantasticFwoosh]

He did threaten us on the shuttle, obstructed us boarding peacefully and overseeing the captain also getting onboard (along with the warden conspiratorily), actively ran 3 jobs at once to prolong the round and used their own admin authority to allow a mutiny, his own logs establish a motive that he was angry we disrupted him in the middle of running said jobs and then he said i should file a complaint about it --> We Are Here <--

In retrospect of thinking about it and evidence, I probably didn't play my best HOP performance and the HOS quite blatently just wanted to leave but 40 minutes is a long way off Kevinz000 projection to extend a round with only 20 players for 4 hours on GMT hours, the captain got the short end of the stick by a silly game of roulette to be late to the decision-making, and i lost my temper in shuttle brig and people are trying to call me out for calling kevinz a dick when he instantly assumes this is entirely my doing and claims i am to incompetent to do my job. Which is all i had been focused on doing truly just doing my job as command.

• Population picked up after a fresh round that ran completely normally without being 4 hours long when feemjeem took over a little while after without mekhi's nessecity to do every job just to stem his own boredom because security work doesn't cut it. - GMT hours are usually quiet EDIT- Kevinz adminned the next round which was wizard and it went ok, something you can't draw out for 4 hours before retreating and handing over the rungs to feem (for clarity)

Sometimes I have doubts about the removal of ban requests so I would like to thank Fwoosh for reminding me how terrible they were. Every wasted paragraph in this thread is proof it was one of the more positive things I've done for the community.

As least sarcastic as possible, what did you mean about this and what is your decision about this thread.

[onleavedontatme]

I am not headmin until the 15th I don't have a decision on this thread

[Archie700]

It really feels like you are trying to get kevinz punished for something started because of your actions in the first place. (Is it banbaiting if it's an admin complaint?)
And Kor is essentially saying "This ban request is stupid and I feel stupid for wasting my time on it.", because apparently you can't get his meaning.

[FantasticFwoosh]

It really feels like you are trying to get kevinz punished for something started because of your actions in the first place.
And Kor is essentially saying "This ban request is stupid and I feel stupid for wasting my time on it."

Its reactionary on kevinz part and im citing that its a deliberate misuse of power on his part hence abuse even if its not from a admin button panel where he can't moderate himself when he's de-adminned temporarily. Instead of accept perhaps a unfavorable outcome for him, he has no power to revert the outcome and punishes us instead.

What would you suggest as a counter motive? We are all responsible for our own actions, myself and even him. A shared responsibility of two active heads who agreed at the time with the authority to do it, a captain that was late but still within means to stop it, and a warden & a officer who just seek to exact revenge without breaking rules because they were upset about it, kevin especially so and a mutiny has to be run though a admin. Spacelaw clauses of desertion are IC but essentially it was for all intensive purposes a mutiny as once again with captain comatose we were the only active heads.

Nobody ahelped that it was unfair for us (myself and the HOS) to do so in calling or red-alerting, so how exactly were we outside of our rights to call if we both thought it was a good idea to leave, i do defend my statement that i do not share the same views of the HOS on the matter, more that i am apathetic, impartial but mostly concerned about the state of the station as justified for leaving. HOS is being mentioned a lot but nobody's actually quoted me, we agreed because its in both of our mutual interests at the time and that's really all there is to it.

Code: Select all

3863   [10:52:54]   98,53,2   SAY:    Skylar Lineman/Kevinz000: You know Centcom wouldn't give a shit if you were actually murdered for that, right?

Lets not forget this was addressed to myself and the HOS his direct superior, centcomm being himself as a admin (or wider coderbus) which is probably the most veiled way of telling the warden that they can harm us to death for calling a shuttle.

[Lazengann]

If I was in that round I would mutiny too. They'd better deadmin me huh

[Slignerd]

Again, that's lots of word salad for what's essentially just "mutiny and moonlighting", both of which are easily an IC issue.

You keep talking about "admin authority", even though all that happened was kevinz making in-game decisions with his in-game avatar.

without breaking rules

If you agree that they haven't broken the rules, then what's even your point now?

and a mutiny has to be run though a admin

First I heard of it. Of course, you can't start a mutiny without a very good reason, but I've never heard of any and all mutinies requiring admin approval.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Kevinz as a admin and his in game avatar being two seperate entities was not well maintained this round, him authorising the mutiny is him dipping into the other on the basis of being taken out of control of the round to bend it to how he wants it. Snug maxed out tech, engine running for 4 hours on lowpop GMT where he isn't going to even be online for the next 30 mins after the round had ended and feem takes over absolving him of any responsibility for what happens to go ghost out in a locker somewhere.

[Archie700]

The main question is why the hell would you red alert without even checking if someone is setting up the engine or whether the captain is alive and not stashed somewhere.
You had like, 10 mins. Not even half was passed before you decided to red alert with the HOS.
And the shooter ligger was announced dead and detained in comms at least twice. The only way you could miss that is if you didn't pay attention to comms.
And why would you red alert in a power failure when that could be easily rectified by getting someone to set up the damn supermatter or solars?
There weren't even any other murderboning antags and you said it yourself that HOS's excuse to red alert was unprofessional so WHY DO IT?

[FantasticFwoosh]

I heard the lizard shooter was dead only after i issued the green alert ETA at 20, i was more than happy to let it tick down from there but concious of how depowered everything was, i had been through the halls with only the aid of my crowbar and very many workplaces had no energy at all, there had been 40 minutes of neglect with no solars, no engineers (i know this because i set priorities to engineer role to high personally and saw there was non on manifest).

Just setting up the engine isn't as much a quick fix as kevinz had really made it out to be.

> We were notified the captain was cloned, but we didn't actually know where he was at the time. (or even if he was alive truly because of power issues in genetics had been reported)

You can de-escalate the alert from the command console, we were on the bridge and again we didn't really move from there, so we could have totally just de-escalated it once it was confirmed in order to jiggle the timer for a safe recall. For pulling out the logs there is a shocking lack of attention to reading my statements in the thread.

> I could not predict the HOS's mindset if i didn't actively participate in swiping for red and it would have probably made no difference if it had remained on a slow green alert. It was in both of our interests for different reasons, if you want to lecture anybody you need to have a stern word with the HOS too. Captain had full breadth to just stop us, long or slow.

I already mentioned my core weakness, apathy and i was apathetic with a different set of concerns mainly surrounding my job and current dangers to which seemed fine to me to red alert, boredom was not one of them even though my workplace had been effectively denied. It was not done as soon as possible or for that matter particularly late, though the period between calling & red alert was short.

• HoS could have took more time instead of booking it straight to bridge to ask me, i wasn't exactly going anywhere or going to do anything very much further, at most i might have either

> Waited for the captain to walk back in (cloners godwilling they still have power)
> Ate some doughnuts and waited it out
> Elevated it to blue alert
> Tabbed out, made myself a cup of tea come back in approx 4 mins in time to check on things again.

[kevinz000]

Lmao what
I helped a mutiny because I felt like you two were shitty heads of staff edit: according to my opinion as a PLAYER.
I didn't validate anything with my own admin power.
What are you even going on about?

[Cobby]

> I am apathetic, it is my core weakness
>*gets mutinied for an apathetic action*
> wtf i'm putting up a ban req/acomplaint for you mutinying me you can't do that!

How have you managed to admit the problem yet deny the problem in a single thread?

[onleavedontatme]

48 meticulously documented replies about a videogame arrest lmao