2k17 /pol/

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:58 am #332225

Bottom post of the previous page:

ColonicAcid wrote:Because maybe treating the mentally unwell as criminals is as medieval as it gets.

You think locking up schizos would be a just law? Then why do you think locking up drug addicts is a suitable punishment?

being mentally ill is not something you can control, being a drug addict is a consequence of your actions.

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:59 am #332226

ColonicAcid wrote: Don't worry, I'm sure you don't have to deal with any of this shit anyway in your sheltered suburb.

also get a load of this guy.

Super Aggro Crag · Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:01 am

ContrarianAcid

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:06 am #332234

>being a drug addict is something you can control.

Get into a heavy smack addiction and then tell me to my face that it's something you can control.

I'm blessed in not having an addictive personality, I've stopped smoking cigs with no side effects other than night sweats for a few days. I sometimes get cravings but they pass easily. Same thing with coke. I've snorted a few grams here and there but I've never ever had the cravings for them.

But I know people that will literally become literal coke addicts after having one single line. The allure is too strong and the high is too fucking good for them. Their brain is wired differently than mine. And coke and cigs are relatively painless physically to break the addiction. Imagine being in a heavy xans addiction. MIND you that this could be entirely due to prescriptions. Your prescriptions stops but guess what if you go cold turkey on benzos your heart can literally stop. But I guess that's just totally under your control just like will your heart to restart it's fine.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:07 am #332235

I wished I lived in a suburb lmao

I live in a shitty house in a fucking improvised city in the southwest who's biggest employment is a navy base.

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:11 am #332240

ColonicAcid wrote:>being a drug addict is something you can control.
Get into a heavy smack addiction and then tell me to my face that it's something you can control.

I'm blessed in not having an addictive personality, I've stopped smoking cigs with no side effects other than night sweats for a few days. I sometimes get cravings but they pass easily. Same thing with coke. I've snorted a few grams here and there but I've never ever had the cravings for them.

But I know people that will literally become literal coke addicts after having one single line. The allure is too strong and the high is too fucking good for them. Their brain is wired differently than mine. And coke and cigs are relatively painless physically to break the addiction. Imagine being in a heavy xans addiction. MIND you that this could be entirely due to prescriptions. Your prescriptions stops but guess what if you go cold turkey on benzos your heart can literally stop. But I guess that's just totally under your control just like will your heart to restart it's fine.

let's break that down

Get into a heavy smack addiction and then tell me to my face that it's something you can control.

i guess you cant control a drug addiction!

Get into a heavy smack addiction

oh wait

after having one single line

then dont have the fucking line dude, you might as well call suicide murder

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:13 am #332243

Should we take the mounds of knowledge from psychologists and actual drug addicts as to how addictions work or should we take the singular opinion of bman, resident real human bean and anti drug crusader?

Can I get the Vegas odds of this heavyweight fight?

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:17 am #332246

ColonicAcid wrote:Should we take the mounds of knowledge from psychologists and actual drug addicts as to how addictions work or should we take the singular opinion of bman, resident real human bean and anti drug crusader?

Can I get the Vegas odds of this heavyweight fight?

if you dont want a drug addiction or the shit that comes attached to it then don't do drugs.

ShadowDimentio · Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:18 am

ColonicAcid wrote:>being a drug addict is something you can control.

Get into a heavy smack addiction and then tell me to my face that it's something you can control.

How is getting addicted not your own fault.

Poor people don't walk down the street, trip, fall onto a heroin syringe and WELL FUCK NOW I'M AN ADDICT I GUESS. They CHOOSE to take drugs, and in this day and age they knew full goddamn well there was a very good chance they'd get addicted, but did it anyway.

Literally HOW is it ANYONE'S FAULT BUT YOUR OWN

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:19 am #332248

Thank you Nancy Reagan for the sage advice of "just say no to drugs".

I wish I lived in the same black and white world you do where such complex decisions could be so simple and easy to do.

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:21 am #332252

ColonicAcid wrote:Thank you Nancy Reagan for the sage advice of "just say no to drugs".

I wish I lived in the same black and white world you do where such complex decisions could be so simple and easy to do.

>someone offers you drugs
>say no

HIGH-STRESS ENVIRONMENT.

ShadowDimentio · Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:23 am

Now That's What I Call A Complex Decision: Volume 1

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:25 am #332254

>Take an illegal substance and get addicted
>B-b-b-but it's not my fault

It's one thing if it's a prescribed medication like morphine, but if you're going out of your way to acquire and take illegal drugs, it is entirely your fault when they fuck your life up

Screemonster · Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:27 am

ShadowDimentio wrote:Random tests not working is a fair point, but I say doing something is better than doing nothing, though I'd have to see the price tag more closely to get an idea of if it'd be worth it or not.

this is the real kicker here, if the drug tests are costing more than the combined welfare bills of the people caught by the drug tests then it just doesn't make economic sense to pursue it

Sometimes doing something for the sake of doing something is not better than doing nothing, though that then leads onto the philosophical debate on whether deliberate, considered inaction is itself an action.

Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:28 am

bman wrote:
ColonicAcid wrote:Thank you Nancy Reagan for the sage advice of "just say no to drugs".

I wish I lived in the same black and white world you do where such complex decisions could be so simple and easy to do.
>someone offers you drugs
>say no

HIGH-STRESS ENVIRONMENT.

>implying there was a party going on and everyone else was smoking weed, you wouldn't partcipate.

now granted, I haven't done any drugs other than weed and alcohol. If it's around you all the time and you're trying to be friendly with people, you're often going to feel somewhat oblidged to join them in whatever they're smoking/drinking. I would never really condone hard drugs, however, even if other people are doing them. If they're doing hard drugs, those people are not people you want to be friends with. However, marijuana and alcohol are really just thinks that are done by anybody with any life style (albeit there are a few degenerates who exist in the weed life style.)

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:28 am #332257

>your drunk
>someone offers you a line of coke
>you don't know you have an addictive personality
>you do it for the whole night and the next day you want more

Congrats you're now addicted to one of the most expensive drugs in the world.

Or even better
>you're young and impressionable
>peer pressure gets the better of you and you take a benzo
>you make up a bullshit excuse that it helps with your anxiety or it let's you really be yourself
>congratulations you're now a xanhead you're well on your way to stealing shit from people because you have no inhibitions when you're on xans

Unfortunately Nancy the real world doesn't work like that. If it did everyone would have a house and everyone would have bread on the table and clean water. Humans are more complex than just "say no lol".

LOOK at gambling for fuck sakes, it's the exact same mechanism but gamblers don't get arrested when they get found rolling a slot machine.

Addiction is brutal because our brains are a mixture of new and old circuits. Our most primitive circuits crave pleasure and dopamine release is one hell of a motivator.

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:34 am #332258

ColonicAcid wrote:>>>>>CONSCIOUS DECISION DRINK RESPONSIBLY>>>>>>>>>>>your drunk<<<<<<<CONSCIOUS DECISION DRINK RESPONSIBLY<<<<<<<<
>someone offers you a line of coke
>you don't know you have an addictive personality
>you do it for the whole night and the next day you want more

Congrats you're now addicted to one of the most expensive drugs in the world.

Or even better
>you're young and impressionable
>peer pressure gets the better of you and you take a benzo <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<STILL A CONSCIOUS DECISION YOU WERE PROBABLY EDUCATED<<<<<<<<<<<
>you make up a bullshit excuse that it helps with your anxiety or it let's you really be yourself
>congratulations you're now a xanhead you're well on your way to stealing shit from people because you have no inhibitions when you're on xans

Unfortunately Nancy the real world doesn't work like that. If it did everyone would have a house and everyone would have bread on the table and clean water. Humans are more complex than just "say no lol".

LOOK at gambling for fuck sakes, it's the exact same mechanism but gamblers don't get arrested when they get found rolling a slot machine.

Addiction is brutal because our brains are a mixture of new and old circuits. Our most primitive circuits crave pleasure and dopamine release is one hell of a motivator.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:34 am #332259

Or even better thanks for reminding me of morphine.

Wanna know why the smack problem has gotten real bad? Because of pain pills.

Is your pasty white add really going to tell me that it's the fucking addicts faults they were told to take a nice cocktail of opiods for their stubbed toe and now after years of dependence the government stops the over prescription of opiods and you're left out on the dry.

Millions of people with no way to get their pain pills but their body is so fucking dependent on it that their entire brain chemistry has been rewired. But yeah, it's their fault they turned to the only cheap alternative to their problems. They should've just plowed through it like real men.

Grow up, drug addicts don't just consist of homeless people and methheads. Its normal everyday people, it's yours fucking neighbours.

Everyone has fucking vices, get off your high horse jackass.

ShadowDimentio · Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:37 am

It's no secret to anyone not to get drunk enough to think trying coke is a good idea, or not to give in to peer pressure and take drugs.

And to your addiction thing, humans aren't dumb animals that exist solely to pleasure ourselves like those rats that starved themselves to death by choosing pleasure over food, we have (or should have) great enough intelligence to practice self-restraint and prevent ourselves from picking up extremely cumbersome addictions.

If you get addicted to something it's wholly your own fault because you should have known better.

ShadowDimentio · Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:39 am

The prescription opioid epidemic is a real issue though and is the exception to the rule, the guilty party there is the doctors handing out pain pills left and right and the government letting the situation get out of hand.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:42 am #332265

Hahaha yeah right bruh.

Don't say things you don't understand. We all think we're free thinking beings but underneath it all it's circuits that are millions of years old.

Let me tell you a little experiment that shows just how much control you really have. There's an experiment involving hooking your brain up so it can show brain activity and asking people to raise whichever hands they want.

You can tell exactly what hand they'll raise seconds before they raise it by looking at the areas of activity. Your brain has made the decision fucking centuries before but you're under the illusion you chose it.

We. Are. Not. Special.

Why do you think obesity is a big problem? Our brains are wired to crave high sugar foods. They specifically taste good to make us want more. When we were hunter gatherers this was great, we rarely ever got food that high in sugars so you gotta take advantage when it happens. Now though? They're everywhere. But our brains haven't adapted yet, so we're still in hunter gatherer mode.

Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:43 am

pls watch this, I consider this source to be as unbias as it can get.
[youtube]ao8L-0nSYzg[/youtube]

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:43 am #332267

ColonicAcid wrote:Or even better thanks for reminding me of morphine.

Wanna know why the smack problem has gotten real bad? Because of pain pills.

Is your pasty white add [get a load of this guy] really going to tell me that it's the fucking addicts faults they were told to take a nice cocktail of opiods for their stubbed toe and now after years of dependence the government stops the over prescription of opiods and you're left out on the dry.

Millions of people with no way to get their pain pills but their body is so fucking dependent on it that their entire brain chemistry has been rewired. But yeah, it's their fault they turned to the only cheap alternative to their problems. They should've just plowed through it like real men.[you KNOW that's not the prevalent cause of drug abuse]

Grow up, drug addicts don't just consist of homeless people and methheads. Its normal everyday people, it's yours fucking neighbours.

Everyone has fucking vices, get off your high horse jackass. [stop being assblasted]

>mfw when someone asks me if i want to take drugs so i have to make a complex decision...

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:44 am #332268

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110831/ ... 7023a.html

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:49 am #332270

Meme all you want, I'll take that as you having no more to add to this discussion which to be honest you've shown to be fucking inadequate to be talking about regardless.

Hint: when a biochemist that has done his masters on the fucking chemical pathway of addictions you should probably take a step back and go back to your fucking lane.

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:52 am #332273

right now that doesn't mean anything, you're trying to contest the base concept of free will. you can resist about anything with enough willpower, you can't shift this blame onto another hypothetical force.

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:54 am #332274

ColonicAcid wrote:Meme all you want, I'll take that as you having no more to add to this discussion which to be honest you've shown to be fucking inadequate to be talking about regardless. im not the one going off-grid and insulting people like an insolent child

Hint: when a biochemist that has done his masters on the fucking chemical pathway of addictions you should probably take a step back and go back to your fucking lane. [appeal to authority + assblasted, a deadly mix]

ShadowDimentio · Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:54 am

ColonicAcid after leaving the thread, circa 2k17

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:56 am #332277

we real complex decision hours now boys

onleavedontatme · Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:01 am

I can't tell if you guys are trolling or you actually think you have superior knowledge on a topic he has spent 8 years studying in an academic setting and that its somehow fallacious to point out the difference between a masters degree + several sourced links and an image macro

onleavedontatme · Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:02 am

Whoops I took the bait as well!

ShadowDimentio · Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:03 am

Kor wrote:I can't tell if you guys are trolling or you actually think you have superior knowledge on a topic he has spent 8 years studying in an academic setting and that its somehow fallacious to point out the difference between a masters degree + several sourced links and an image macro

It's more the supremely douchey tone he took.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:03 am #332281

Imagine having to spend a year of your life working purely on one project to get a degree and then writing an entire thesis that took upwards of 6 months on one singular subject.

And then imagine having two people in a space man forum trying to argue how it all works when the most they've probably touched is an AP biology book if even that.

Imagine them denying current knowledge so much that I actually need to bring up my degree to assure them that everything ive said is based on what current psychologists see addictions as.

Just imagine that funny little world for one second

Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:04 am

I didn't know colonic was a biochemist

Karp · Post by **Karp** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:04 am #332283

are you guys unironically trying to argue that the opiate epidemic isn't caused by the fact that prescription painkillers were given out like candy for a decade or so

why are there so many edgy contrarian redditors on right now

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:05 am #332284

Yes sireee. Currently doing a PhD in the bowels of the UK: Plymouth.

ShadowDimentio · Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:05 am

Karp wrote:are you guys unironically trying to argue that the opiate epidemic isn't caused by the fact that prescription painkillers were given out like candy for a decade or so

Nobody has said anything even remotely close to that

Please read before posting thanks

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:06 am #332286

wew lad, i believe that if you got fucked by opiates and you didnt know then sure it's shit for you and that's bad (not your fault), but don't tell me that it's not your own free will that caused you to take drugs from someone else in some fucking alley

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:07 am #332287

I now understand how science officials felt when they dealt with the Trump campaign.

I hope i never have to play this fucking game with people with actual power because it's exhausting.

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:08 am #332288

ColonicAcid wrote:I now understand how science officials felt when they dealt with the Trump campaign.

I hope i never have to play this fucking game with people with actual power because it's exhausting.

ShadowDimentio · Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:09 am

bman wrote:wew lad, i believe that if you got fucked by opiates and you didnt know then sure it's shit for you and that's bad (not your fault), but don't tell me that it's not your own free will that caused you to take drugs from someone else in some fucking alley

In fairness doctors are generally trusted pretty blindly by the populace, which in this case was a bad thing because before they knew it they were addicted to painkillers and couldn't go back.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:09 am #332290

Remember kids, just say no!

Say no to poverty, say no to crime and especially say no to drugs!

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:10 am #332291

ShadowDimentio wrote:
Kor wrote:I can't tell if you guys are trolling or you actually think you have superior knowledge on a topic he has spent 8 years studying in an academic setting and that its somehow fallacious to point out the difference between a masters degree + several sourced links and an image macro
It's more the supremely douchey tone he took.

unironically this, if colonic hadnt been on a fucking crusade i wouldnt have been tempted to be more off-tracked than christopher columbus.

Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:11 am

it's like I'm really on /pol/ again

ShadowDimentio · Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:11 am

Colonic you're making it really hard for me to summon up any effort to try and learn more and potentially agree with you if you keep parading around jerking off about how smart you are

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:11 am #332294

secretly, we all enjoyed this

or did we

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:14 am #332295

Jesus and Ben Franklin smoked weed. Saying someone should be homeless because they smoked weed is retarded, you can hardly claim the law is just.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:16 am #332296

I'm not parading how smart i am jesus fuck. You two are talking about a fucking subject that I know very well and I've been ingrained in for a fucking long ass time. And you're saying total and utter bullshit. That rhetoric is from the fucking early 20th century for fuck sakes.

I'm sorry if this hurts for you to read but I know what I'm talking about. I'm not being bigheaded or anything. If I didn't know what I was talking about I wouldn't have gotten that degree. Never did I say that I was a fucking mastermind on everything. That's why I gave a link about the free will thing. If I was fully confident on it I can assure you that I wouldve put three meaty paragraphs about it.

onleavedontatme · Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:16 am

ShadowDimentio wrote:Colonic you're making it really hard for me to summon up any effort to try and learn more and potentially agree with you if you keep parading around jerking off about how smart you are

The anti-PC crusader has declared he will avoid learning any more about a topic until he is addressed in a more politically correct manner and his feelings stop being hurt.

bman · Post by **bman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:16 am #332299

Wyzack wrote:Jesus and Ben Franklin smoked weed. Saying someone should be homeless because they smoked weed is retarded, you can hardly claim the law is just.

sure, okay, criticizing the law is fair game, i just dont agree that if you take drugs (that you know are bad for you, not some painkillers) it's not actually your own decision.

that's hardly controversial.

Karp · Post by **Karp** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:18 am #332300

All policy decisions are evaluated at a cost level, even human lives unfortunately

said program is not cost effective or will not provide a beneficial service that has a reason to exist long run(Economic strife leading to job loss is an example of no net economic benefit initially but leads to more positives in the long term when people dont experience a famine)

The program may sound nice but in reality you're spending more to do less, anyone who commits to cheating the test can easily fake urine and there are well over a thousand fake urine kits online with fake penises and such so people can entirely cheat it unless you strip search everyone before they take it

Not to mention that marijuana is on the lower end of harmful, even less so than alcohol in most recent studies, maybe you can argue the point with heroin/meth addicts but heroin was caused by doctors over prescribing medication regardless which is super easy to get hooked on