2k17 /pol/

[Grazyn]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Wait what, go to jail? I assumed that they would just be sent back, it's illegal immigration actually a crime worth prison time in the US? Are they really gonna imprison nearly a million people and make them serve the time before they send them back? That seems like a huge waste of resources.

However, from what I read, the problem was that the Dreamers' status was already very precarious and tethering on some sort of "delayed action" presidential decree instead of an actual law, Obama never really addressed the issue and just hoped that the next guy would eventually take care of it. So instead of delaying it any further and ignoring future issues, Trump went with the "throw the nestling out of the nest to teach him to fly" option, he gave Congress 6 months to come up with an actual law if they really don't want to ruin the life of 800k people. It looks like a good way to speed up the process and eventually come up with a law that could even result in a better status for the "dreamers".

Now this probably doesn't fulfill the "revenge fantasy" of a few fanatics but it seems like good politics to me.

[ColonicAcid]

**autistic screeching of OUT OUT OUT OUT**

[calzilla1]

tfw the pack thinks im so wounded that even calzilla takes cheap shots


i appreciate the irony of calzilla out of all people telling me to think before i post

whats next fucking hedrox is going to come out with the steel chair?



pls end yourselves

I do think. I dont have a reputation to maintain. Also, lel at the end bit

[ShadowDimentio]

I am now confused.

What's bad about the children and the families? Are the any of the targeted children now adults? Do they not integrate? Is there a dual nationality for the children? Whilst it's a dick move and won't be received well locally, if they have dual nationality, then I imagine it's Murica's right to revoke their half when they see fit.

It does sound weird to be a federal policy rather than a state based one. Will it not fall apart with devolution in the way or did the representatives of the affected states want this?

They're illegal aliens. People want them out because they're illegal aliens, and by their very nature have broken the law. They have no citizenship whatsoever, the only hangup is that they've lived and built lives here, and some think it's unfair to throw them out. And it's 100% a federal issue, the states have no authority over citizenship or immigration.

[ShadowDimentio]

It's pretty much just a matter of ordering the states to act, and if they don't or try to dawdle, put the boot down so they do. As to them not having a state, they do: their home country. If you're born on US soil you're American, these people weren't and snuck in with their parents as children. The US has zero obligations to take them in.

[bman]

kalanik STOP shitposting

[ColonicAcid]

no thank u



i must do what i must

[Malkevin]

Tell me who badmouthed what looks like a real life statue. I will duff 'em up I will.

This guy. He's from the Liberal Democratic Party. It's not really liberal at all, and it's not really a party. It's mostly a joke.

He has very dim derpy eyes.

Also that penis is very small, being that he's a lib dem: is he complaining the dick isn't big enough?

please go read what the statue of liberty says before you state that they're illegal criminals.

don't put the crimes of their fathers onto their sons.

What? You mean the poem on the French statue that was written as a fundraiser and has nothing to do with american law?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus

[ColonicAcid]

ah yes lets pretend that american foreign policy in the early late 1700s and early 1800s wasn't influenced by that


it NEVER HAPPENED.

[InsaneHyena]

Woah, it's almost as if what I said about a new, developing country was true. Really makes you think, doesn't it

[XSI]

Wait what, go to jail? I assumed that they would just be sent back, it's illegal immigration actually a crime worth prison time in the US? Are they really gonna imprison nearly a million people and make them serve the time before they send them back? That seems like a huge waste of resources.

However, from what I read, the problem was that the Dreamers' status was already very precarious and tethering on some sort of "delayed action" presidential decree instead of an actual law, Obama never really addressed the issue and just hoped that the next guy would eventually take care of it. So instead of delaying it any further and ignoring future issues, Trump went with the "throw the nestling out of the nest to teach him to fly" option, he gave Congress 6 months to come up with an actual law if they really don't want to ruin the life of 800k people. It looks like a good way to speed up the process and eventually come up with a law that could even result in a better status for the "dreamers".

Now this probably doesn't fulfill the "revenge fantasy" of a few fanatics but it seems like good politics to me.

US prison system is privatised
You can bet your ass they'll send a million people to jail if they could, just to force them to work in there
Arbeit macht frei and all

Also yeah that seems about right. This entire thing wouldn't even be a problem if there wasn't a retarded idea of "Born in this country = citizen". That just encourages parents leaving their kids there, and breaking up families is generally considered a bad thing. If anything needs to go, it is that.
Didn't Trump also demand immigration reform or wall funding to be included in that law? So basically, if they don't give him his immigration reform, they're going to have to explain why they just allowed all those people to get deported

[Malkevin]

ah yes lets pretend that american foreign policy in the early late 1700s and early 1800s wasn't influenced by that


it NEVER HAPPENED.

"Wuhhhh look at me I have a piece of paper that proves how smart I am yet I can't read a wiki article that states the poem wasn't written until 1883. Me so smart" - ColonicAcid

[Incomptinence]

>not having transparent parts on your money
>2017
The signatures are a nice touch. What are the I assume flowers?

Stylised banksia flower I am fairly sure. Specific species I am however not certain of:


Colonic was pretty on point about polymer notes they blow paper notes out of the water (also water proof) and Australia was the first to put them into circulation also the ever expanding windows are also a functional anti counterfeiting feature along with the holograms.

Note Printing Australia also produces polymer bank notes for other countries:

Autoriti Monetari Brunei Darussalam
Banco Central de Chile
Banco de México
Bangladesh Bank
Bank Indonesia
Banca Naţională a României
Bank Negara Malaysia
Bank of Papua New Guinea
Bank of Thailand
Central Bank of Kuwait
Central Bank of Samoa
Central Bank of Solomon Islands
Central Bank of Sri Lanka
Monetary Authority of Singapore
Nepal Rastra Bank
Reserve Bank of Australia
Reserve Bank of New Zealand
Reserve Bank of Vanuatu
State Bank of Vietnam

Oh and I read about possible retooling of our note printers to make disposable chemical solar cells at some point.

[Malkevin]

They also have the added benefit of annoying PETA and muslims because they use pork juice in their manufacture.

[Incomptinence]

Yeah best past of that controversy is literally no animals were being killed specifically to produce them. The tallow in this case is entirely a waste product that would otherwise be thrown away and is used in tiny trace amounts.

the total amount of the product required for all five pound notes in circulation in the UK is about half a cow

Talk about a golden calf.

[Screemonster]

also the "reeeee killing animals they're not vegan" thing is bullshit because I can pretty much guarantee that the "tallow" byproduct is stearic acid, which is used in basically every plastic product ever along with soaps, waxes, and god knows what else

Some vegan walking around in their shitty plastic sandals acting all smug that their shoes aren't made of leather (which is itself pretty much a byproduct of the meat industry, nobody kills a cow for its skin, they get the skins from the cows they're already killing for meat - kinda like paper isn't "killing trees", who the fuck cuts down a tree to make paper? You use the offcuts and scraps and sawdust that are left over after cutting it for lumber) is likely completely unaware that animal products were still used to make the plastic.

Fuck, I've got a sack of stearin in my house somewhere because I used to make candles for a hobby, and you put like a teaspoon of it in a jug of wax and it makes the candles come out less brittle.
Now, you can get "vegan" stearin that's extracted from palm oil if you really give a shit, but hoo boy if you're a big fan of the environment you do not want to know how that particular sausage is made.

[CitrusGender]

I don't think anyone takes takes PETA seriously anymore. Seriously, those people will scream if you do anything to an animal. It's becoming so fringe that nobody cares for it anymore.

[starmute]

I am now confused.

What's bad about the children and the families? Are the any of the targeted children now adults? Do they not integrate? Is there a dual nationality for the children? Whilst it's a dick move and won't be received well locally, if they have dual nationality, then I imagine it's Murica's right to revoke their half when they see fit.

It does sound weird to be a federal policy rather than a state based one. Will it not fall apart with devolution in the way or did the representatives of the affected states want this?

They're illegal aliens. People want them out because they're illegal aliens, and by their very nature have broken the law. They have no citizenship whatsoever, the only hangup is that they've lived and built lives here, and some think it's unfair to throw them out. And it's 100% a federal issue, the states have no authority over citizenship or immigration.

Actually I have a question for you. Do you follow the law to a tee? The major problem I see with "THE LAW IS THE LAW" argument is that so many of us break it on a constant basis. Going over the speed limit (Even a few miles over), watching a youtube video with a song that wasn't uploaded by the artist, or perhaps doing something that they don't even realize that is violating the law. In that regard I have to take "the law is the law" argument with a grain of common sense. If someone is born in the US, is contributing member of society and pays their dues like everyone else I really don't see the problem as far as common sense goes. Then again if you want strict interpretation of the law and follow the law to a tee I understand.. but it's not common sense.

Additionally as far as being a federal issue... the states have a pretty wide berth of what they can and cannot do. I actually think its rather absurd.

A issue isn't black and white either. Its various shades of grey where some people have a better claim to being here than others.

Lets focus on another group of immigrants that come to the United States legally. Cubans. If they come from Cuba and set a foot on American soil then they can become refugees. If the coast guard intercepts them (although they cannot really intercept them and force them back to cuba, mostly its when they are drowning) they go back to cuba. This is called "wet foot, dry foot policy". The current administration actually has put more pressure on cuba and reinforced the "wet foot, dry foot" policy. Why is that?

My money is votes.

[lntigracy]

It's only illegal when you get caught.

They got caught.

[cedarbridge]

I am now confused.

What's bad about the children and the families? Are the any of the targeted children now adults? Do they not integrate? Is there a dual nationality for the children? Whilst it's a dick move and won't be received well locally, if they have dual nationality, then I imagine it's Murica's right to revoke their half when they see fit.

It does sound weird to be a federal policy rather than a state based one. Will it not fall apart with devolution in the way or did the representatives of the affected states want this?

They're illegal aliens. People want them out because they're illegal aliens, and by their very nature have broken the law. They have no citizenship whatsoever, the only hangup is that they've lived and built lives here, and some think it's unfair to throw them out. And it's 100% a federal issue, the states have no authority over citizenship or immigration.

Actually I have a question for you. Do you follow the law to a tee? The major problem I see with "THE LAW IS THE LAW" argument is that so many of us break it on a constant basis. Going over the speed limit (Even a few miles over), watching a youtube video with a song that wasn't uploaded by the artist, or perhaps doing something that they don't even realize that is violating the law. In that regard I have to take "the law is the law" argument with a grain of common sense. If someone is born in the US, is contributing member of society and pays their dues like everyone else I really don't see the problem as far as common sense goes. Then again if you want strict interpretation of the law and follow the law to a tee I understand.. but it's not common sense.

Additionally as far as being a federal issue... the states have a pretty wide berth of what they can and cannot do. I actually think its rather absurd.

A issue isn't black and white either. Its various shades of grey where some people have a better claim to being here than others.

Are you unironically comparing illegal migration into a sovereign nation to parking citations? Is that what you're doing here?

[starmute]

Are you unironically comparing illegal migration into a sovereign nation to parking citations? Is that what you're doing here?

I'm saying the issue isn't as black and white as people would like to make it.

I am literally saying that people should use common sense. Additionally I cited another situation Cuban "illegal" immigration where we have almost a completely different policy, yet we support them. Florida is made up of 6.5 percent off the boat immigrants from Cuba. One in 20 people in Florida is a "illegal immigrant" however the government pardons them and has been pardoning them for about 40 years.

People like to cite "Law is the law", however they rarely will follow the law to a tee themselves and they fail to see the larger picture.

[XSI]

This won't be a problem in the future if you just end the automatic citizenship for being born inside your borders
Make it born to a citizen parent and allow others to earn citizenship through military service or something else that benefits the country
Or something like that

It is important to follow the law and all, especially on immigration, but people can't choose where they're born either, and the country as a whole already invested into them for education(lol US education) and all, so there's definitely more to it than "Must follow the law" or "Must allow poor innocent migrants"
Shit's kinda fucked and there is no good solution
So stop making more problems by giving automatic citizenship and then you've got however long you need to resolve the rest on individual basis

[starmute]

This won't be a problem in the future if you just end the automatic citizenship for being born inside your borders
Make it born to a citizen parent and allow others to earn citizenship through military service or something else that benefits the country
Or something like that

It is important to follow the law and all, especially on immigration, but people can't choose where they're born either, and the country as a whole already invested into them for education(lol US education) and all, so there's definitely more to it than "Must follow the law" or "Must allow poor innocent migrants"
Shit's kinda fucked and there is no good solution
So stop making more problems by giving automatic citizenship and then you've got however long you need to resolve the rest on individual basis

This really isn't a problem. Our country is doing fine economically and has been doing fine with the exceptions of the Lincoln savings and loan crash, the internet bubble and the bank bail out. I've already gone through the issue of immigration in further detail earlier last month. The only way to compete with farms and other businesses overseas would be enormous government subsidies and tariffs. Both of these would be detrimental to the US budget and the economy.

The argument is "Migrants are not following the laws" and therefore "should be deported". Economically it wouldn't make sense, common sense wise the policy doesn't make sense. The only justification is "the law is the law", however enforcing it makes as much sense as someone driving 25 miles per hour in a 75 mile per hour zone just because they are "following the law". The jobs that are "up for offer" aren't the high paying college educated jobs, they are the lowest of the low things that highschoolers look down upon.

[DemonFiren]

>he finds variety beautiful
>on a politics thread
lmao sjw cuck

[InsaneHyena]

Hey, whitey, ever got a speeding ticket? Then you have to raise broods of Jamals and Juans with your tax money! It's good for you, because I said so.

Yeah, I think I'll pass.

[Takeguru]

If someone is born in the US, is contributing member of society and pays their dues like everyone else I really don't see the problem as far as common sense goes.

Just interjecting for a second, the dreamers weren't born in the US, they're infants or small children when their parents came over

Anchor babies are born in the US, but that's a different issue

[cedarbridge]

Are you unironically comparing illegal migration into a sovereign nation to parking citations? Is that what you're doing here?

I'm saying the issue isn't as black and white as people would like to make it.

I am literally saying that people should use common sense. Additionally I cited another situation Cuban "illegal" immigration where we have almost a completely different policy, yet we support them. Florida is made up of 6.5 percent off the boat immigrants from Cuba. One in 20 people in Florida is a "illegal immigrant" however the government pardons them and has been pardoning them for about 40 years.

People like to cite "Law is the law", however they rarely will follow the law to a tee themselves and they fail to see the larger picture.

Appealing to "common sense" is a nonstarter. Its literally just saying "agree with me or you're an imbecile."

Again, "If you don't follow every letter of the law at all times you can't say anything about these people breaking totally different and unrelated laws" is itself idiotic and presumes that all laws are equal in their effects.

[cedarbridge]

That was a "fire bomb of peace" not a "fire bomb" you bigot.

[starmute]

[starmute]

Appealing to "common sense" is a nonstarter. Its literally just saying "agree with me or you're an imbecile."

Again, "If you don't follow every letter of the law at all times you can't say anything about these people breaking totally different and unrelated laws" is itself idiotic and presumes that all laws are equal in their effects.

Okay what would you call it? Things aren't black and white. We persecute some and ignore others. Economically the fact that there is illegal immigration is good for the country, we don't end up like the UK with farms literally making less than they produce and existing on government subsidies, while people buy up farm land just so they can suck at the government teat.

It also would be nice if you quit nitpicking and argue the meat of my arguments.

If someone is born in the US, is contributing member of society and pays their dues like everyone else I really don't see the problem as far as common sense goes.

Just interjecting for a second, the dreamers weren't born in the US, they're infants or small children when their parents came over

Anchor babies are born in the US, but that's a different issue

I was referring to "Anchor babies".

[starmute]

UK farmers buy land to get subsidies? I thought dirt farmin' was a Murican meme?

Oh and I thought UK farmers were supposed to be getting EU subsidies and have a concerning future given the nasty party is in power. I honestly don't know about the state of agriculture or livestock in this country besides the perpetuated memes.

Currently farming in the UK loses money and is unsustainable on it's own. The only thing keeping the farming sector afloat is massive subsidies given to them by the government. Currently this year the subsidy amount is £3 billion. When brexit hits things will have to change.

A interesting read.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... sh-to-rich

[Screemonster]

the bomb thing was summed up by a guy I know in discord earlier today

British news today: "A BOMB FAILED TO DETONATE FULLY ON A TRAIN EARLIER, RESULTING IN NO CASUALTIES AND NO DAMAGE TO THE TRAIN. JOIN US FOR LISTENING TO THE POLICE EXPLAIN WHAT A BOMB IS AND HOW UNUSUAL IT IS FOR A BOMB TO HAVE A TIMER IN IT THESE DAYS. Also we have footage from a probe entering Saturn's atmosphere after a 20-year journey. NOW LET'S SPEND TEN MINUTES DISCUSSING HOW AWFUL IT IS THAT NORTH KOREA IS OPENLY MANUFACTURING AND LAUNCHING INTERCONTINENTAL NUCLEAR MISSILES WHILE JUST SITTING BACK AND IDLY SAYING 'no stop don't do that' THEN GO BACK TO THE THING ABOUT THE BOMB THAT DIDN'T EXPLODE PROPERLY."
This is why I don't watch the news :V

[Super Aggro Crag]

PART AND PARCEL

[cedarbridge]

Okay what would you call it? Things aren't black and white. We persecute some and ignore others. Economically the fact that there is illegal immigration is good for the country, we don't end up like the UK with farms literally making less than they produce and existing on government subsidies, while people buy up farm land just so they can suck at the government teat.

I'm going to spitball and say you don't actually have personal contact with farms or have a concept of the vast array of subsidies laid our for American agribusiness. To pretend that having illegal immigrants in the country is keeping literally any of them away from government handouts and quotas is absurd. Our agriculture in this country actually overproduces by a very large margin. We produce or have production capacity for so much that quotas are generally imposed as a ceiling for production, rather than a minimum. This has been the case since the Industrial Revolution and the caselaw supporting it is landmark for con law students. These quotas and subsidies pay the farms and farmers to NOT produce more. So explain why it is that we need to exploit third world unregistered labor in order to keep farmers off of "the government teat" that they're already firmly attached to?

So no, the nation doesn't need illegal immigrants and neither does agriculture.
https://www.economist.com/news/united-s ... -taxpayers

[cedarbridge]

the bomb thing was summed up by a guy I know in discord earlier today

=(
satire isn't supposed to hurt

the beeb even made a cool online article about it

And then yesterday there was a happy story about snow leopard status being upgraded from endangered to vulnerable because apparently their numbers are assumed to be above 2,500 and their population isn't in decline.

the news is mean

This is why I make sure to follow sources of cute animal pictures and shit on twitter. It helps break up the dreary mess of everything else.

[starmute]

Okay what would you call it? Things aren't black and white. We persecute some and ignore others. Economically the fact that there is illegal immigration is good for the country, we don't end up like the UK with farms literally making less than they produce and existing on government subsidies, while people buy up farm land just so they can suck at the government teat.

I'm going to spitball and say you don't actually have personal contact with farms or have a concept of the vast array of subsidies laid our for American agribusiness. To pretend that having illegal immigrants in the country is keeping literally any of them away from government handouts and quotas is absurd. Our agriculture in this country actually overproduces by a very large margin. We produce or have production capacity for so much that quotas are generally imposed as a ceiling for production, rather than a minimum. This has been the case since the Industrial Revolution and the caselaw supporting it is landmark for con law students. These quotas and subsidies pay the farms and farmers to NOT produce more. So explain why it is that we need to exploit third world unregistered labor in order to keep farmers off of "the government teat" that they're already firmly attached to?

So no, the nation doesn't need illegal immigrants and neither does agriculture.
https://www.economist.com/news/united-s ... -taxpayers

Except I lived on a farm, I live in a farming area, I know migrant workers and I know what the American economy is like for them. Also you are RIGHT in that we produce so much, and so cheaply that we actually destroy food so small time farmers can sell their crops the idea is to make it more of a stable crop and not be constant peeks and valleys. That being said the migrant worker is a crux in this. Prices rise and fall due to labor, and labor is probably the most expensive thing in farming. Paying farmers not to grow crops was a substitute for agricultural price support programs designed to ensure that farmers could always sell their crops for enough to support themselves. The price support program meant that farmers had to incur the expense of plowing their fields, fertilizing, irrigating, spraying, and harvesting them, and then selling their crops to the government, which stored them in silos until they either rotted or were consumed by rodents. It was much cheaper just to pay farmers not to grow the crops in the first place.

Essentially it is the government stepping in and regulating prices any "sucking off the government teat" is made up for in taxes placed specifically on farmers called "agricultural taxes". I may have come from a small farm, and a large family but I understand the ideas of farming well enough. Since you questioned mine, what's your background in farming? Its only fair.

Let's do a trade! I check in on one which brings up silly things from nature (they sometimes retweet old content, probably to not be inactive and they're not good at citing sources for images).
https://twitter.com/Strange_Animals

You can't go wrong with a picture of a pair of blue footed boobies!

Spoiler:

No you're not allowed to claim you already follow them to get out of sharing cute animals.

Those are adorable.

[starmute]

Okay here's my contribution.

Spoiler:

Red pandas are my spirit animal

[calzilla1]

Make way for the cutest animal
[img]https://preview.ibb.co/muqdg5/ZL3Sj9z.jpg[/img]
Fucking scrubs dont even know kawaii anima

[cedarbridge]

Let's do a trade! I check in on one which brings up silly things from nature (they sometimes retweet old content, probably to not be inactive and they're not good at citing sources for images).
https://twitter.com/Strange_Animals

You can't go wrong with a picture of a pair of blue footed boobies!

No you're not allowed to claim you already follow them to get out of sharing cute animals.

The old reliable
https://twitter.com/videocats

[cedarbridge]

Essentially it is the government stepping in and regulating prices any "sucking off the government teat" is made up for in taxes placed specifically on farmers called "agricultural taxes". I may have come from a small farm, and a large family but I understand the ideas of farming well enough. Since you questioned mine, what's your background in farming? Its only fair.

I grew up in a town where all of my close friends worked family farms. My parents come from ag families. I work regularly with people who manage farms and work also with the sort of third world labor you seem ok with exploiting.

I mean, that's all a sideshow anyway.

1) Do you think that granting citizenship or amnesty would allow that same labor to work at the same prices that their current labor allows?
2) Do you think this would then not burden the government resources we currently have?
3) What can a migrant worker do that a native worker cannot do?

There is no special value in allowing or failing to prevent illegal immigration unless you consider exploiting unregistered migrant workers for their lower wages to be a perk. Additionally, the labor imported is local labor squandered.

[starmute]

Essentially it is the government stepping in and regulating prices any "sucking off the government teat" is made up for in taxes placed specifically on farmers called "agricultural taxes". I may have come from a small farm, and a large family but I understand the ideas of farming well enough. Since you questioned mine, what's your background in farming? Its only fair.

I grew up in a town where all of my close friends worked family farms. My parents come from ag families. I work regularly with people who manage farms and work also with the sort of third world labor you seem ok with exploiting.

I mean, that's all a sideshow anyway.

1) Do you think that granting citizenship or amnesty would allow that same labor to work at the same prices that their current labor allows?
2) Do you think this would then not burden the government resources we currently have?
3) What can a migrant worker do that a native worker cannot do?

There is no special value in allowing or failing to prevent illegal immigration unless you consider exploiting unregistered migrant workers for their lower wages to be a perk. Additionally, the labor imported is local labor squandered.

1) No I've stated that unfortunately we need a class of people who will work at a lesser rate or else our farms can't compete globally.
2) No, the migrant workers spending power would offset the balance.
3) Work at a lower wage that a "native worker" is willing to work thus increasing the profits to the farm owner.


I could talk about the dreamers program or the anchor babies separately.

Exploitation happens in capitalism. If you want to go on a crusade against capitalism then by all means do but realize it's the thing keeping you playing x-boxes while others are working their ass off.

I believe I've explained all this previously if you search my post history.

[Grazyn]

They could come up with a law that grants fast citizenship to those Dreamers who enlist in the military. Those who don't would be pardoned anyway for their crime of illegal entry (because come on, jail time would really be exceedingly cruel) but sent back. Even half of them accepting the deal would be a big boost to american manpower, and it will be needed in the upcoming land war against NK/China

[XSI]

Wars these days are more about the technology than having manpower

The manpower is more for holding on to any gained territory than anything else. Tanks and airplanes might win the war, but they won't patrol the streets to keep the peace after the entire police force was conscripted to fight you off and died

[cedarbridge]

1) No I've stated that unfortunately we need a class of people who will work at a lesser rate or else our farms can't compete globally.
2) No, the migrant workers spending power would offset the balance.
3) Work at a lower wage that a "native worker" is willing to work thus increasing the profits to the farm owner.


I could talk about the dreamers program or the anchor babies separately.

Exploitation happens in capitalism. If you want to go on a crusade against capitalism then by all means do but realize it's the thing keeping you playing x-boxes while others are working their ass off.

I believe I've explained all this previously if you search my post history.

Nigga I'm not going to go through your post history to look up your opinions on things. Are you real?

1) Poppycock. If we "need" the underclass to compete then that's only because our farms have depended too long on that underclass to function. Cut the crutch and make the farms compete.
2) What spending power? The spending power they have on cents per hour or the spending power that will not materialize on the current mandated minimum wage?
3) If you expect people to cease being considered illegal imigrants and be brought to a legal worker status then you then have to acknowledge those people working under current labor laws and that includes the minimum wage. Are you asserting here that you'd be ok with removing or reducing the minimum wage? Good luck with that.

Exploitation is not exclusive to capitalism and even bringing it up is a red herring. You're admitting that you're peachy with slavery because it keeps the current agribusiness system going.

They could come up with a law that grants fast citizenship to those Dreamers who enlist in the military. Those who don't would be pardoned anyway for their crime of illegal entry (because come on, jail time would really be exceedingly cruel) but sent back. Even half of them accepting the deal would be a big boost to american manpower, and it will be needed in the upcoming land war against NK/China

>Inviting foreign nationals to occupy and control your military

[Grazyn]

>control

They would be more like conscripts, no? Those who are educated could be trained and assigned according to their trade, doctors could become medics, engineers could go on to mechanized battalions and so on, but I guess that the vast majority only know how to clean a septic tank or flip a burger, and those would go straight to regular infantry. They've already been grown and fed on american money, may as well get the most use out of them.

About the salary issue, removing Obamacare should free a sizeable chunk of money, and Republicans don't usually question increased military spending.
Everyone is happy: Dreamers are happy because they get to keep a job and a chance to become citizens, Republicans are happy because they get some guilt-free cannon fodder to send in the meatgrinder that will be the second Korean war, and Democrats are happy because Dreamers are only deported according to their own choice.

[cedarbridge]

>control

They would be more like conscripts, no? Those who are educated could be trained and assigned according to their trade, doctors could become medics, engineers could go on to mechanized battalions and so on, but I guess that the vast majority only know how to clean a septic tank or flip a burger, and those would go straight to regular infantry. They've already been grown and fed on american money, may as well get the most use out of them.

About the salary issue, removing Obamacare should free a sizeable chunk of money, and Republicans don't usually question increased military spending.
Everyone is happy: Dreamers are happy because they get to keep a job and a chance to become citizens, Republicans are happy because they get some guilt-free cannon fodder to send in the meatgrinder that will be the second Korean war, and Democrats are happy because Dreamers are only deported according to their own choice.

So your plan appeases:
Foreign nationals, Neocons and illegal immigration apologists with some overlap among the 3.

Sounds like a winning plan.

[Grazyn]

Who is or isn't appeased is only important to get the law approved, the goal is using the Dreamers to boost the US military for the wars to come because that's a good way to recycle all the resources that were already spent on them. And from what I get from the other side of the ocean, Trump is having problem getting all the Republicans in Congress on board with a final solution, and it's easier to have them all agree on something that isn't "Jail and deport them all".

[starmute]

I believe I've explained all this previously if you search my post history.

Nigga I'm not going to go through your post history to look up your opinions on things. Are you real?

1) Poppycock. If we "need" the underclass to compete then that's only because our farms have depended too long on that underclass to function. Cut the crutch and make the farms compete.
2) What spending power? The spending power they have on cents per hour or the spending power that will not materialize on the current mandated minimum wage?
3) If you expect people to cease being considered illegal imigrants and be brought to a legal worker status then you then have to acknowledge those people working under current labor laws and that includes the minimum wage. Are you asserting here that you'd be ok with removing or reducing the minimum wage? Good luck with that.

Exploitation is not exclusive to capitalism and even bringing it up is a red herring. You're admitting that you're peachy with slavery because it keeps the current agribusiness system going.

[/quote]

Exploitation isn't exclusive to capitalism but it is a essential part of it. Nobody would rather be working a burger job than working a job playing video games all day for fun. A worker who works in the farm does far more hard labor than a worker working at a office yet the pay is more at a office. Exploitation is inherent in every system.

1) Good luck with that. We literally have been exploiting the underclasses for centuries. The introduction of Global trade just puts it "out of sight, out of mind".
2) Ironicly enough people do have to spend money to survive. With said monies going into the system it creates jobs and cash flow.
3) I never stated any of that. I simply stated that this is a "problem" without a solution. Throwing money at it is throwing money in a hole.

Honestly this is a "grey area". While it's illegal to come here illegally, its very benificial for the country as a whole.

Here's a example of another grey issue:
A website named "4chan.com" hosts a significant amount of Lolita or "loli" pornography that depicts "drawings of sexually provocative children".

Prohibits computer-generated child pornography when "(B) such visual depiction is a computer image or computer-generated image that is, or appears virtually indistinguishable from that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct"; (as amended by 1466A for Section 2256(8)(B) of title 18, United States Code).
Prohibits drawings, sculptures, and pictures of such drawings and sculptures depicting minors in actions or situations that meet the Miller test of being obscene, OR are engaged in sex acts that are deemed to meet the same obscene condition.

Now should the police "raid" every computer that has ever gone to 4chan.com? Should they raid 4chan.com? There is freedom of speech you have to think about.

[ShadowDimentio]

Loli pictures are only illegal if they're so realistic you can't tell they're not real. If I draw a little girl in MS paint SWAT isn't going to smash my door down and drag me off to prison.

Also >Illegal immigration is good for a country

Tell that to the native working class who can't find jobs because all the shit working class jobs are being outsourced to illegals in conditions remarkably similar to slavery.

Yeah sorry your wages are being suppressed to nothing but if you really think about it your life being shit is a small price to pay for products being marginally cheaper for people who can actually buy them.

[starmute]

Loli pictures are only illegal if they're so realistic you can't tell they're not real. If I draw a little girl in MS paint SWAT isn't going to smash my door down and drag me off to prison.

Also >Illegal immigration is good for a country
Tell that to the native working class who can't find jobs because all the shit working class jobs are being outsourced to illegals in conditions remarkably similar to slavery.
Yeah sorry your wages are being suppressed to nothing but if you really think about it your life being shit is a small price to pay for products being marginally cheaper for people who can actually buy them.

>outsourced to illegals.

outsource
verb: to obtain (goods or a service) from an outside or foreign supplier, especially in place of an internal source.

Did you mean something else? Not trying to be critical, condescending or whatever but I would like you to clarify what you mean by this before I respond. My response depends on what you mean.

Also I would like you to cite your evidence on the "loli pictures" statement.

[ShadowDimentio]

Prohibits computer-generated child pornography when "(B) such visual depiction is a computer image or computer-generated image that is, or appears virtually indistinguishable from that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct"; (as amended by 1466A for Section 2256(8)(B) of title 18, United States Code).
Prohibits drawings, sculptures, and pictures of such drawings and sculptures depicting minors in actions or situations that meet the Miller test of being obscene, OR are engaged in sex acts that are deemed to meet the same obscene condition.

Loli pictures are only illegal when they're virtually indistinguishable from real kids.