Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
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- Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:10 pm
- Byond Username: Hanador
Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
Byond account and character name: Hanador , Peter Vandalmar
Admin: Beesting12
Time and Server: Sybil incident occurred: 2:00-2:50pm, pacific standard time 1/15/2018
ROUND ID HERE: honestly no idea how to find this I tried saving the chatlog but when I did it didn't have the round ID in it so I think I tossed it.
Detailed summary: First I am aware of the rule 1 precedent but I'm complaining because I think there was a better way of handling this.
Me and (Reondin who was Enjoys-Her-Sweets the Cook a changeling antag) (completely unknown to me) fed poly a bunch of crackers which makes the parrot talk a whole lot. We put it in a chair and touched it a bunch of times with a radio nearby the bird started to spam the radio etc. Beesting12 then DELETED the both of us with no prior warning and then deleted Poly.
As I have said earlier I know radio spam isn't protected and all that. I think there was a better way of handing the issue other than deleting an antag and a greytider that beyond clogging up the radio hadn't really hurt anybody or done any lasting damage. Beesting12 could have instead: sent a centcomm message out stating our location we didn't really fortify the place beyond welding a normal airlock, could have simply deleted Poly instead of us, or even warned us to cut out our spam I haven't really been a big rulebreaker in the 5 odd years I've been here I sometimes forget the rules but 99% of the time I follow them and if asked to stop chances are I would have.
Admin: Beesting12
Time and Server: Sybil incident occurred: 2:00-2:50pm, pacific standard time 1/15/2018
ROUND ID HERE: honestly no idea how to find this I tried saving the chatlog but when I did it didn't have the round ID in it so I think I tossed it.
Detailed summary: First I am aware of the rule 1 precedent but I'm complaining because I think there was a better way of handling this.
Me and (Reondin who was Enjoys-Her-Sweets the Cook a changeling antag) (completely unknown to me) fed poly a bunch of crackers which makes the parrot talk a whole lot. We put it in a chair and touched it a bunch of times with a radio nearby the bird started to spam the radio etc. Beesting12 then DELETED the both of us with no prior warning and then deleted Poly.
As I have said earlier I know radio spam isn't protected and all that. I think there was a better way of handing the issue other than deleting an antag and a greytider that beyond clogging up the radio hadn't really hurt anybody or done any lasting damage. Beesting12 could have instead: sent a centcomm message out stating our location we didn't really fortify the place beyond welding a normal airlock, could have simply deleted Poly instead of us, or even warned us to cut out our spam I haven't really been a big rulebreaker in the 5 odd years I've been here I sometimes forget the rules but 99% of the time I follow them and if asked to stop chances are I would have.
- Stickymayhem
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
I'll contact a headmin about him deleting Poly. The other two deletions are valid.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
- BeeSting12
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
Okay okay I'd like to apologize. I really shouldn't have done that. It was straight up abuse of my admin rank and there were definitely better ways to handle it. I understand that I fucked up here, and I'll do better in the future. I will never delete Poly again.
- oranges
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
I can't find this in the public logs, how long ago did this happen?
oranges@jumphost:~/logs/sybil$ grep -R 'deleted' . | grep 'ADMIN: beesting'
./08/round-81576/game.html:</p><p class="ADMIN">[16:08:07]ADMIN: beesting12/(MULEbot) deleted the chair at (53, 91, 7)
./08/round-81576/game.html:</p><p class="ADMIN">[16:08:55]ADMIN: beesting12/(Edward Sloan) deleted Edward Sloan at (67, 160, 2)
./08/round-81576/game.html:</p><p class="ADMIN">[16:09:58]ADMIN: beesting12/(Edward Sloan) deleted Edward Sloan at (60, 164, 2)
./08/round-81576/game.html:</p><p class="ADMIN">[16:10:23]ADMIN: beesting12/(MULEbot) deleted the MULEbot (#4) at (53, 36, 5)
./08/round-81576/game.txt:[16:08:07]ADMIN: beesting12/(MULEbot) deleted the chair at (53, 91, 7)
./08/round-81576/game.txt:[16:08:55]ADMIN: beesting12/(Edward Sloan) deleted Edward Sloan at (67, 160, 2)
./08/round-81576/game.txt:[16:09:58]ADMIN: beesting12/(Edward Sloan) deleted Edward Sloan at (60, 164, 2)
./08/round-81576/game.txt:[16:10:23]ADMIN: beesting12/(MULEbot) deleted the MULEbot (#4) at (53, 36, 5)
./15/round-81987/game.html:</p><p class="ADMIN">[22:50:28]ADMIN: beesting12/(Ariel Atkinson) deleted Ariel Atkinson at (63, 162, 2)
./15/round-81987/game.txt:[22:50:28]ADMIN: beesting12/(Ariel Atkinson) deleted Ariel Atkinson at (63, 162, 2)
oranges@jumphost:~/logs/sybil$ grep -R 'deleted' . | grep 'ADMIN: beesting'
./08/round-81576/game.html:</p><p class="ADMIN">[16:08:07]ADMIN: beesting12/(MULEbot) deleted the chair at (53, 91, 7)
./08/round-81576/game.html:</p><p class="ADMIN">[16:08:55]ADMIN: beesting12/(Edward Sloan) deleted Edward Sloan at (67, 160, 2)
./08/round-81576/game.html:</p><p class="ADMIN">[16:09:58]ADMIN: beesting12/(Edward Sloan) deleted Edward Sloan at (60, 164, 2)
./08/round-81576/game.html:</p><p class="ADMIN">[16:10:23]ADMIN: beesting12/(MULEbot) deleted the MULEbot (#4) at (53, 36, 5)
./08/round-81576/game.txt:[16:08:07]ADMIN: beesting12/(MULEbot) deleted the chair at (53, 91, 7)
./08/round-81576/game.txt:[16:08:55]ADMIN: beesting12/(Edward Sloan) deleted Edward Sloan at (67, 160, 2)
./08/round-81576/game.txt:[16:09:58]ADMIN: beesting12/(Edward Sloan) deleted Edward Sloan at (60, 164, 2)
./08/round-81576/game.txt:[16:10:23]ADMIN: beesting12/(MULEbot) deleted the MULEbot (#4) at (53, 36, 5)
./15/round-81987/game.html:</p><p class="ADMIN">[22:50:28]ADMIN: beesting12/(Ariel Atkinson) deleted Ariel Atkinson at (63, 162, 2)
./15/round-81987/game.txt:[22:50:28]ADMIN: beesting12/(Ariel Atkinson) deleted Ariel Atkinson at (63, 162, 2)
Last edited by oranges on Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
- BeeSting12
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
It happened yesterday
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
I asked Arm who showed me rule 1 precedent. So while I think it could have been done more tactfully (like turning me and peter into polys/warning us/making poly sentient and do 1000 damage per hit) beesting was in the right.
- BeeSting12
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
giving attention to spammers is bad
- Wyzack
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
I hate to give the iamgoofball answer but shouldn't there be a cap on poly's messaging of some kind if we are not allowing it to go that far?
- BeeSting12
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
There's tons of easily spammable mechanics that we delete or ban for spamming. Poly is no different. The argument that something is a mechanic means it's okay to be spammed is dumbWyzack wrote:I hate to give the iamgoofball answer but shouldn't there be a cap on poly's messaging of some kind if we are not allowing it to go that far?
- SpaceInaba
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
they're not allowed to break server rules so noawesine wrote:aren't antags allowed to do whatever they want?
Spoiler:
- BeeSting12
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
They're not allowed to spam
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
deleting people is really heavy handed
just message them to stop
you should have learned how to use admin PMs when you were a candidate
just message them to stop
you should have learned how to use admin PMs when you were a candidate
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- Armhulen
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
>Spamming can result from ingame admin intervention ending in you dying, to admin warnings, to bans for excessive or repeated spamming.PKPenguin321 wrote:deleting people is really heavy handed
just message them to stop
you should have learned how to use admin PMs when you were a candidate
read woman, because the players didn't
- CitrusGender
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
I will note that Kor specifically has said in discord chat that this is exactly what he does to spammers.PKPenguin321 wrote:deleting people is really heavy handed
just message them to stop
you should have learned how to use admin PMs when you were a candidate
Obviously, it's not how exactly I would deal with this situation but this is by the book and headmin orders, so to say.
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
The general rule is spamming, gross shit like WGW and dumb hitlerish names makes you valid, to the crew and admins, whether you are antag or not. Instant gibs are acceptable. Deletions are basically the same without some gore.
It's not a difference in application it's just some admins might feel like watching the crew lynch them or doing it themselves basically.
It's not a difference in application it's just some admins might feel like watching the crew lynch them or doing it themselves basically.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
or just don't be a tightass and maybe try to follow the spirit rather than the letter?Armhulen wrote:>Spamming can result from ingame admin intervention ending in you dying, to admin warnings, to bans for excessive or repeated spamming.PKPenguin321 wrote:deleting people is really heavy handed
just message them to stop
you should have learned how to use admin PMs when you were a candidate
read woman, because the players didn't
i'm sure you were a player at some point and thought something like hooking poly up to comms would have been funny, not like they were some EVIL SPAMMERS OUT TO GET US or some shit
that's kind of disappointingCitrusGender wrote:I will note that Kor specifically has said in discord chat that this is exactly what he does to spammers.PKPenguin321 wrote:deleting people is really heavy handed
just message them to stop
you should have learned how to use admin PMs when you were a candidate
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- oranges
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
You're out on your own branch there PKP
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
yeah i know the headmins are against it so this is kind of pointless but i mean can't we at least pretend we're trying to all have a good timeoranges wrote:You're out on your own branch there PKP
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- BeeSting12
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
come on man theres a big difference between hooking poly up to comms (funny) and feeding poly crackers so you can spam pet him and send hundreds of lines of text through the chat (not funny)
- BeeSting12
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
can you explain to me how spam adds to the round or makes anyone have a good timePKPenguin321 wrote:yeah i know the headmins are against it so this is kind of pointless but i mean can't we at least pretend we're trying to all have a good timeoranges wrote:You're out on your own branch there PKP
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
not saying it does, but you can't tell me you never experienced being a newer player and wondering if you could do something like that and then trying it out and being pleased when you see that it does in fact work.BeeSting12 wrote:can you explain to me how spam adds to the round or makes anyone have a good timePKPenguin321 wrote:yeah i know the headmins are against it so this is kind of pointless but i mean can't we at least pretend we're trying to all have a good timeoranges wrote:You're out on your own branch there PKP
i'm also not saying that's what they were doing because of course i don't know exactly what they were thinking, but i'm guessing something like that is what's likely the case, and if i were the player in that scenario i think a simple PM saying to stop would have been enough for me to cut it out. plus, i wouldn't have to be screwed out of the rest of the round for something that didn't immediately occur to me as something that can get you outright deleted.
just try to see from the perspective of the people who got deleted. i'd be kinda pissed if that happened to me because it's abrupt, the reasoning for it isn't immediately clear, and it's essentially permanent for the rest of the round which can usually go for an hour. meanwhile a PM would have gotten you the same results and would have caused no heartache for anybody.
at least consider why it may have been a better option to PM them rather than immediately making them to be the villain and dismissing their complaint as nothing more than a joke. you can't tell me it doesn't have some merit.
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- Armhulen
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
anyway beesting didn't do anything wrong basically
- MrStonedOne
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
Re-opening so I can say words.
We allow people to do varying levels of spamming that I can appreciate how shocking and disorentating it is to the player to have crossing a line the player may or may not have done intentionally lead to such an abrupt and permanent action.
We can do better.
Basically this.PKPenguin321 wrote:deleting people is really heavy handed
just message them to stop
you should have learned how to use admin PMs when you were a candidate
I don't know enough of the context here, it really depends alot on how much or how bad the spamming is, but this kinda alludes to what I want to bring up.Stickymayhem wrote:The general rule is spamming, gross shit like WGW and dumb hitlerish names makes you valid, to the crew and admins, whether you are antag or not. Instant gibs are acceptable. Deletions are basically the same without some gore.
It's not a difference in application it's just some admins might feel like watching the crew lynch them or doing it themselves basically.
We allow people to do varying levels of spamming that I can appreciate how shocking and disorentating it is to the player to have crossing a line the player may or may not have done intentionally lead to such an abrupt and permanent action.
We can do better.
- BeeSting12
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
Headmins have said that they're perfectly fine with deletion of spammers. The rules say deletion of spammers is fine. If that is not the case, then please make a change to the rules. Other than that, I see no reason why I should be punished or even sternly talked to for doing something explicitly stated as allowed within the rules. I find it laughable that anyone would even complain about being deleted for spam- I have done this many other times and it usually gets little to no reaction for the deleted person (deletee?), and the most complaining I heard is that I could've done something more exciting.
I'm not pulling logs because I don't feel like it's necessary, but from what I saw, it was pretty bad- bad enough that there was a ticket about it which prompted me to log in. If he's been here for 5 years as he claims, I'm sure he knew there was something wrong with spamming up the radio like that. And that there would be consequences if he did it.
to sum it up: "chat shit get deleted my dude" -oranges 2018
I'm not pulling logs because I don't feel like it's necessary, but from what I saw, it was pretty bad- bad enough that there was a ticket about it which prompted me to log in. If he's been here for 5 years as he claims, I'm sure he knew there was something wrong with spamming up the radio like that. And that there would be consequences if he did it.
to sum it up: "chat shit get deleted my dude" -oranges 2018
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
Even if you're not actioned, and I don't think you should be actioned, you should still consider taking this thread as feedback so you can handle it better in the future. If players have to at least pretend to be sorry in ban appeals, you could at least pretend to incorporate honest feedback when you hear it, even if it's from an admin complaint.
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- oranges
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
I don't think you should have to incorporate feedback where that feedback is the complete opposite of what the administration team and policy are setting as the tone, if you don't like that tone, take it to policy discussion (goes for you too MSO), but it's not a reflection on beesting's conduct as an admin.
- CitrusGender
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
You won't be. You did what you thought was normal and policy.BeeSting12 wrote:Headmins have said that they're perfectly fine with deletion of spammers. The rules say deletion of spammers is fine. If that is not the case, then please make a change to the rules. Other than that, I see no reason why I should be punished or even sternly talked to for doing something explicitly stated as allowed within the rules. I find it laughable that anyone would even complain about being deleted for spam- I have done this many other times and it usually gets little to no reaction for the deleted person (deletee?), and the most complaining I heard is that I could've done something more exciting.
I'm not pulling logs because I don't feel like it's necessary, but from what I saw, it was pretty bad- bad enough that there was a ticket about it which prompted me to log in. If he's been here for 5 years as he claims, I'm sure he knew there was something wrong with spamming up the radio like that. And that there would be consequences if he did it.
to sum it up: "chat shit get deleted my dude" -oranges 2018
It was even said that what you did was the reccomended course of action by a headmin. There is no fault on yourself here.
Still, just take this as an opprotunity to see something different from the viewpoint of the Host.
Edit: There are no rules on "deleting spammers," there is only a prevailing interpritation of the rules. "Spamming can result from ingame admin intervention ending in you dying, to admin warnings, to bans for excessive or repeated spamming." is open to interpritation, and MSO just put in his own interpritation as to what the "CAN RESULT" aspect SHOULD be. The rule is literarly not set in stone, the rules say you can ban someone for "excessive" spamming but that's still up to interpretation. It's the heart of the game, honestly, to have fluid rules.
I think you is the wrong pronoun here. This is more of a message to the entire admin team. Essentially, MSO is taking something that we thought to be common policy and advised against it, for good reason.PKPenguin321 wrote:Even if you're not actioned, and I don't think you should be actioned, you should still consider taking this thread as feedback so you can handle it better in the future. If players have to at least pretend to be sorry in ban appeals, you could at least pretend to incorporate honest feedback when you hear it, even if it's from an admin complaint.
I'm not sure what to do now though, does what the Host say now trump headmin policy? I can only speculate, but I guess it would be yes?
Either way, Beesting did nothing wrong here with the knowledge at the time but MSO probably just created a precedent.
- oranges
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
mso just a gameadmin chumbis
- BeeSting12
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
everyone whos posted here is a chumbis including me
- Armhulen
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Re: Beesting12 1/15/18 Outright Deletion
hmmmmm i thought i closed this thread but it appears it has returned
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