Money! Currency! KA-CHING

[Skorvold]

Think of the possibilities man!

We need ATM's and currency, we need vending machines that cost something, it would add so much to the game. Gamble your eating money away as an assistant, or bribe the HoS to keep you out of the brig. Buy stuff from glorious admin event shops, or better yet, pay some admin event bounty hunters to kill or capture someone you don't like!

Endless possibilities.

[Steelpoint]

I would like a currency system, other servers do it well, Goonstation has a antag objective of robbing the station of its payroll, and it might give the HoP something to do.

As far as I know how it works is that everyone at round start starts with a certain amount of money in their ATM account, they get payed every 5 or so minutes based on their job, so assistants get very little but head's of staff get a large sum.

It's neat, and can lead to a lot of interesting possibilities in game.

[Anton Raginovsky]

I really enjoyed the Goon money system, and would really like to see it implemented here.

There's just something about it that gives more incentive to actually do your job instead of fucking off into oblivion. I also really enjoyed the lottery aspect.

[Skorvold]

Can the people with the "No" have some reasoning please? I'd like to see why someone wouldn't want a feature that only adds to the game.

[Alex Crimson]

Ive never played on Goon, so i have no idea how they use currency. But it sounds like an awesome feature. Id love to be able to gain credits for doing certain aspects of my job. Then spend those credits on items, even if they are just fun items like clothing or random bits. Giving antags the ability to steal or hack money would be amazing. Maybe let them buy some of the weaker traitor items for large amounts of credits.

[AseaHeru]

If this is done then venders will need alot of things added to them, just for fluf and for a way to spend money.
Fines for certain crimes instead of jail time might be nice, especially if each department has an account that money can be put into.

[Psyentific]

If this is done then venders will need alot of things added to them, just for fluf and for a way to spend money.
Fines for certain crimes instead of jail time might be nice, especially if each department has an account that money can be put into.

This.

Goon's economy works because it's pervasive - It's tied into everything and used in everything. Contrast to Bay's economy, where it's just another step between you and delicious nutritious 4 No Raisins™ (With 20% less Raisins!).

[ExplosiveCrate]

And don't forget to add merchants/rare vending machines in deep space that sell very useful items, like high-tier mech weapons and some of the adminspawn-restricted items. This'll give people a reason to amass a large amount of money as a nonantag.
Maybe randomize the items that are available every round.

[miggles]

Yeah. The issue with Bay's money is that it's used to buy vending machine items and.. that's it. You can use it to RP I guess, but money is only as worthwhile as the things you can buy with it.

[RogerWilco]

Goon also has lots of space content, mining that has EXPLOSIVES and NOT ANNOYING MOBS EVERYWHERE and REASONABLE AMOUNTS OF MINERALS, pods, telesci away missions, guardbuddies, DWAINE, etc, etc.

[Steelpoint]

Goon mining is great...

In reality though currency would mostly be more of a RP thing, though it could have a antag objective and used by cargo for trading instead of points as well as used in random vending machines.

On Goon there is a "market" section of the ship where anyone can set up shop and sell stuff.

[AseaHeru]

Yah, you can do that with bay but its harder, as you cant just have a pile of cash and take some off of it.

[Skorvold]

Then we should definitely look to make it integrated more to the game, rather than just being there.

[Psyentific]

Then we should definitely look to make it integrated more to the game, rather than just being there.

If this is done then venders will need alot of things added to them, just for fluf and for a way to spend money.
Fines for certain crimes instead of jail time might be nice, especially if each department has an account that money can be put into.

This.

Goon's economy works because it's pervasive - It's tied into everything and used in everything. Contrast to Bay's economy, where it's just another step between you and delicious nutritious 4 No Raisins™ (With 20% less Raisins!).

Remember - Role-play value is not content

[lumipharon]

Would this mean money trees would have actual value now? Also service borgs can literally shit out money right now so, might need to change that.

[ExplosiveCrate]

On Goon there is a "market" section of the ship where anyone can set up shop and sell stuff.

Yes please add a dedicated market stall with shutters and everything, traitors setting up shop and selling incredibly dangerous chemicals/traitor items/adminspawn goodies lead to some of the more interesting hijinks I've ever seen.
Vampires trading "pet bats" and enthralling people in exchange for braindeads, traitors selling bombs for body parts of random crew members, or just some chemist making and selling krokodil.

[Gamarr]

Voted yes, because I've been wanting economy system in this since migrating from Goon years ago. Used to take my whole chef cheque and buy shit like food and special cigs. There is already several stall-like areas in boxstation, and with a few tables the one behind chapel functions as such.

From my experience, adding the economy system may be as rp fluffy as Bay, since in Goons, its tied in intricately with a few detailed jobs such as Robotics/R&D (More research gets more money grants when done). Likewise in Cargo, there is no points, just straight Cash, which is allocated by the normal cheque increments as well.

Cargo already functions somewhat on the goal of sending stuff back for more points with plasma. Sending Centcomm things like certain circuits for a return profit, or mechs, could be another arm of generating income, which should probably go straight to the payroll to keep cargo from hoarding it, meaning an active hop or financier would have to be working to make sure that cargo gets a fair cut, to keep them doing it of course. Or maybe just increase the cargo peoples wage, who usually would donate all what they get continually to their workplace anyway to fund their pet projects.


As mentioned, vending units would need a slight overhaul in content, and pricing. The chef I imagine would love this,as no more free damn food (though honestly if all you do is just buy vending machine stuff with your dough, you would probably not have to visit the chef anyway barring special circumstances that increase hunger). Anyway, I am all for Economy here on tg, but it will touch upon so much, be prepared for the job that this is.

Ah yes, maybe selling tech disks by sending it back to centcomm in cargo might mean someone actually uses the bloody things for once other than me (seriously RDs, put the dangerous shit on disk and delete it, ffs).

[Ikarrus]

Oh man we can totally have embezzlement/burglaries, can't we?

Objective: Steal 1 Million Space Credits

[Helios]

I always liked the idea of in game currency as an E-Peen kind of thing.
You would get 100$ at the start of each round, and it'd carry over through rounds as it was tied to your Byond key.
You could also transfer it and stuff.
Because what's better then useless E-peen extension (I am suggesting a bad idea)

[danno]

goon's economy is awesome
just do it like that

[Drynwyn]

I'd be willing to do some work to code this. The coding shouldn't be difficult, but it maybe time consuming. However, to work well it must be pervasive. To that end, the following changes could be made so that all portions of the station have reason to become involved in GLORIOUS CAPITALISM!

-The Captain gets a Budget Management console that lets him move station funds around.

Cargo (cargo budget)

-Cargo has money instead of points. The cargo budget slowly increases just like points do. Furthermore, there is a public-access "shopping shuttle" that can order individual non-secure items. Although these items are bought individually, they have a higher per-unit cost than buying in bulk via Cargo. Want one set of yellows? Buy it from shopping. Need a dozen? Talk to cargo. In addition, some items other than plasma and crates are now salable.

Science (Science Budget)

-R&D can purchase additional research levels over the Hypernet in all categories except Illegal Tech (because it's, y'know, illegal.) Each subsequent research level is more expensive. This would have the side effect of making things like the decloner attainable. Furthermore, having high research levels grants an income trickle proportional to the research levels, as other people will pay for your knowledge.

-Genetics can expend funds to learn what a selected block does.


Medbay (Medical Budget)

-Number's newchem is fast approaching, so until details of that are had, I won't speculate on how Chem may be influenced.


Engineering (Maintenance Budget)

New machine: Long-Range Energy Relay. Can be set to drain power, gradually adding money to the budget (other stations are buying your spare power) or produce power, gradually draining the budget. No more PACMAN or plasma sheets in engineering- need emergency power, buy it from elsewhere.

Security (Defense Budget)

Security can expend large amounts of funds to hire mercenaries, drawn from deceased players. Mercenaries and their equipment are bluespaced out (despawned) after a certain time has passed. Their equipment depends on how much money you payed.

[miggles]

the hop should get the bank console

[Anton Raginovsky]

If we're adding cash, maybe we can add some illegal tech from GMODS RP servers. The Money Printer. I don't know how much it would cost, but you can use it to print counterfeit cash. It could be completely indiscernible from regular cash, or maybe the HoP and/or Detective could have a tool for finding counterfeit cash. You wouldn't be able to carry it around, so you'd have to find a place to hide it so it won't be found and stolen. It could either print money randomly, only when certain things are put into the machine, on demand, or in a steady stream.

[Skorvold]

Top priority is deciding the worth of the standard Credit.

[AseaHeru]

Indeed.

For instance, cheep lighters in my area cost about $1 each, but often come in pacts of four when they do.
Chocolate costs normally about $1, chips about $0.75, candy varies between $0.25 and $2...

[SergeantSkread]

Oh man we can totally have embezzlement/burglaries, can't we?

Objective: Steal 1 Million Space Credits

Replace nuke ops/add another gamemode that starts with a team of people dressed up in suits, lace up shoes, balaclava or fedora + sunglasses and tommy guns who have to steal the entirety of the station's money

[danno]

-Number's newchem is fast approaching

hahahah oh golly

[imblyings]

you'll also need to factor in currently existing coins and cash items and then make some sort of actually usable stacking/storage method to those things.

as it is I'd love to put shit like cash or coins into wallets but >seven spaces >coins don't even stack

and I really don't want to just have flavourless cards for storing money.

[Psyentific]

you'll also need to factor in currently existing coins and cash items and then make some sort of actually usable stacking/storage method to those things.

as it is I'd love to put shit like cash or coins into wallets but >seven spaces >coins don't even stack

and I really don't want to just have flavourless cards for storing money.

Everybody starts with a wallet full of cash. Wallets have 20 slots, and, through Sufficiently Advanced Technology (that was definitely not stolen from the Wizards Federation), can fit inside PDAs. Depending on your job, you're weighted to start with a Low, Medium, High, or Very High amount of cash, variance is one step either way. Becoming Spacerich is now a crew objective, Loadsamoney is now an antag objective. Gold Bars and various coins can be exchanged for Money, or are generally counted as wealth. At round-end, the richest crew member is proudly displayed.

[Drynwyn]

Coding work has BEGUN*.

Current valuation of space cash is 1 Cargo Point = $500 Space Cash.

There will be a new var for objects, value, which will hopefully determine the amount of money added to the cargo budget when they are sent away on the cargo shuttle. Naturally, rare minerals have a high value, and the value of a coin is equal to the value of one sheet of a given material. The value of Space Cash should be obvious.

Cost to learn the effect of a genetics block is $10,000.

Cost for a level of R&D research is n squared * 1000 dollars, where n is the level you are buying.

Cost for a mercenary for 10 minutes is:

Name (Gear)- Cost

Nanotrasen-Brand Some Chump From Tau Ceti Five (Jumpsuit, wrench) 5000

Peacekeeper Co. Rent-A-Cop (taser, armor, stunbaton) 7000

Direct Action Operative (Egun, armor, Dermal Armor Patch) 10000

Direct Action Ordnance Specialist(Laser, armor, 3 c4, 4 minibombs) 10000

DeKebab Group Soldier (Bulletproof vest, c20r, 5 c20r cartridges, 1 c4, 1 minibomb) 13000

BushidoCo Samurai (Katana, hulk injector) 15000

NestFree Xeno Hunter (Autocharging laser, spaceproof that is highly effective against brute trama while allowing mobility, jetpack, bio hood, napalm grenade x2) 13000

Space Ninja (Space Ninja) 1,000,000 credits.

Still figuring out how much power is worth.


*as in I'm figuring out how the architecture of the code is going to look

BORING CODE PLANS
CAUTION: BORING

Spoiler:

- I haven't put any thought/research into this, and byond code may mean it's hard.
??- I may or may not be able to do this one. I think.
/- I have a fairly good idea of how to handle this, AFAIK.
y- I know exactly how this will be done, but due to CBA I haven't actually done the code yet
x- done
Add "value" var to objects: [y]
Change the cargo "points" to "dollars" [y]
Store the various station budgets, not on a server, just as a datum or somesuch.[/]
Make a computer to move fund around, you have to design the interface. NanoUi?[ ]
Create expenditure consoles for the various departments that do assorted things.[/]
Make the mercenary's gear despawn properly- this is likely to be a headache, and most likely mercenary gear will be it's own item in the code that automagically despawns.[ ]
Make sure you can't pull SHENANIGANS with mercenaries like scanning them then cloning them after they despawn or borging them or somehow preventing their gear from despawning or deconstructing their gear for research levels.[]


Make the Long Range Energy Relay machine. [ ]

other shit [ ]

[miggles]

i really don't like the idea of just being able to bypass work with money
the whole point is that you're actually researching shit, isnt it? i'd rather have the higher research levels be made possible with additions of new things that can be researched rather than just buying them. when has mankind ever bought the knowledge to make things from some transient entity that knows all? what kind of transient entity takes cash? what's the exchange rate for USD to TEM? (transient entity money)
rent-a-cops mite b cool though, but i still dont like the idea of money being the fix for every problem the station has. want laser cannons? dosh. want hulk? dosh. revolution? dosh. cult? dosh. antagonists in general? dosh. no power? dosh. (that one is the worst IMO - if you want power, you make it. there's a reason we have so many engineer slots, and it isn't so they can all drink vodka and pretend to be stalkers)
i do like the variety of the different kinds of reinforcements, but again, i don't like the money solution. it seems like the cheap (heh but not really because >expensive) way out

[Drynwyn]

Yeah, but the intent is to set up the numbers such that if you try to solve all problems with dosh, you will very quickly run out of dosh. Power in particular is intended more as a way to make money then a way to spend it- the station rarely has trouble meeting it's power needs.

Furthermore, the crew has to get paid, and if the payroll budget runs dry, !!things!! may happen. Certainly the crew will be encouraged to revolt/go on strike, but if that doesn't work I could make it turn someone into a headrev.

[Alex Crimson]

I do not understand the mercenary thing. We will be able to hire a player to play as a merc?

[Steelpoint]

From the looks of the proposal the crew (More likley the Captain, HoS or HoP) can hire a mercenary contractor to the station for a sum of money, with mercenary's with more equipment having higher hire costs. The mercenary would only be on station for a limited amount of time and would draw a dead player.

It seems interesting but I question the exploitablity of it, getting C4 charges and C20r's is a powerful thing, not to mention how you explain the mercenary disappearing when their contract runs out.

EDIT: On investigation, it seems quite cheap to quickly hire in some NT Officers or Mercenary's quickly.

For example, it costs only $5000 or 10 Cargo Points to just bring a single merc in. Yet for $7000 or 14 Cargo Points you get a Merc Security Officer. Again for just the sum of $10,000 or 20 Cargo Points you get essentially a NT Soldier with a Egun.

If I had 100 points in cargo and was the Captain and I NEEDED help, I could quickly order in...

10 random players with nothing.

7 people with Tasers

5 people with Eguns or Lasers and Explosives

3 people with C20r's and bombs.

Seems excessive, and cheap.

[lumipharon]

you could literally go mining, redeem the minerals for money, hire mercs and take all their fucking OP gear and proceed to RAEP.

Seriously the "Bulletproof vest, c20r, 5 c20r cartridges, 1 c4, 1 minibomb" is supremely robust if you decide to murder bone, who cares about the actual merc, they vanish, but if their gear doesn't that's retarded.
Or as a traitor you can get some cash, get the samurai, take his injector and get a dual e-sword and proceed to rape, 5 minutes into the round.

[Alex Crimson]

Yeah i do not like the idea. Currency is great, but remove the merc stuff. Maybe let traitors emag the supply console to allow them to buy "special" crates for large amounts of money. Or let cargo hack the console to unlock normally illegal crates for money.

[AseaHeru]

Bring in loaded mechs (with crew) for about 200 cargo points?

In any event, if we add cash we really need to be able to stack money...

[Drynwyn]

It seems interesting but I question the exploitablity of it, getting C4 charges and C20r's is a powerful thing, not to mention how you explain the mercenary disappearing when their contract runs out.

bluespace. There will be sparks and teleportation noises.


That said, the merc's gear will disappear when the timer ends, and may be unusable by non-mercenaries.

Prices are highly subject to change, depending on how expensive/inexpensive they turn out to be.

That said, mercenaries will be told to obey whoever was operating the console and ordered them, and there will be a delay on their arrival. Furthermore, the mercenary console will check for HoS Office access, and is in the HoS office, so it will take significant effort for traitors to hire mercs, though it will be possible. The console also does not have a cash insertion point- that function is handled by the general budget management console.

[AseaHeru]

That said, the merc's gear will disappear, and may be unusable by non-mercenaries.

Thats gonna be some snowflake. Basicly you will have to recode everything, and removes the bonus of the revs dunking them when they get ordered during rev rounds.

[Drynwyn]

Snowflake code isn't really needed here, just a child of the normal weapon or item that starts a delay when initialized and deletes itself when that delay ends. I won't have to recode shit.

If anything, despawning the person will be harder because !!mobcode!!.

Checking for mercenary status when a weapon fires is equally simple, but will only be done if ordering mercs just to take their shit becomes a problem.

[Psyentific]

Yeah i do not like the idea. Currency is great, but remove the merc stuff. Maybe let traitors emag the supply console to allow them to buy "special" crates for large amounts of money. Or let cargo hack the console to unlock normally illegal crates for money.

This. This mercs is a baaaaaaaaaaad idea.

E: Traitors can already emag the supply console to order a Special Ops crate - More than that, I won't say. I will say that, long ago on a distant server, I was a Traitor QM, and emagging the console allowed me to order a C-20r and two magazines. I fooled the entire station into thinking there were nuke ops. I'd like to be able to do that again.

[AseaHeru]

Yep.

[Drynwyn]

All right, mercs are out, noted. How would you suggest integrating money with Sec? Rentable off station holding cells?

[Steelpoint]

How much money would it take for CentCom to look the other way for 5 minutes?

[Psyentific]

All right, mercs are out, noted. How would you suggest integrating money with Sec? Rentable off station holding cells?

Fines. Also...

How much money would it take for CentCom to look the other way for 5 minutes?

[Jam]

All right, mercs are out, noted. How would you suggest integrating money with Sec? Rentable off station holding cells?

They get money for doing their job. Security Officer's get dosh by brigging people: when a timed sentence is set, it pops up a window in which the arresting officer inputs the reason for arrest, length of the sentence, and listing witnesses, any evidence acquired by the Detective, or any complications that occurred during the arrest. When complete, they swipe their ID, or PDA, a bonus is added to their account, and the report sent to the Warden's Office.

The Warden earns their dosh by processing these reports. This involves updating the records from their console, questioning the officers over the radio if all they input was "DICKS lol", getting the Detective to acquire evidence for the sentence if none has been provided, possibly questioning the prisoner themselves, if the arresting officer is untrustworthy, and, in general, making sure that the information they're putting onto the report is accurate. They then send this to the Head of Security, every report they send up the chain-of-command adding a bonus to their account.

The Head of Security looks at the finished report, decides if anything is worth sending a report to CentComm about, and, if any antagonist items are listed, like a cult-blade, or an energy-sword, or other such items, they acquire it from the evidence locker and send it to CentComm, via the Cargo Shuttle, or a escape-pod-sized equivalent attached to their office. This adds a bonus to their account. They also get a percentage off of everything that their subordinates accomplish.

The Detective acquires dosh by submitting the reports from their scanner to the Warden, and/or the Head of Security.

They all use this dosh in different ways.

Security Officers use their dosh to acquire a bit of personal gear through a console in Security: an armor that works a little bit better than normal armor, a personal hard-suit, various kinds of handguns (nothing better than a Stechtzkin, nothing worse than essentially a floortile launcher), a stun-boomerang thing that works as a stun baton when thrown, but isn't blocked by energy shields, or duel-energy-swords, maybe even a hand-held scanner, in case of no Detectives.

The Warden uses their dosh to acquire extra implants (maybe new one that would allow them to remotely interact with things like shutter-buttons, or lockdown Security instantly and remotely, in case of a prison break), an energy-handcuff thing (that can be recharged like a stun baton) that makes cuffs out of PURE ENERGY, which can be disrupted with about fifteen seconds of spare time, perfect for a Warden who'd rather not leave a pair of cuffs behind for their prisoners, or even a few more items to stock the armory with.

The Detective uses their dosh to acquire special ammo, or a better scanner that allows them to see the fingerprints that are normally only present in adminlogs.

The Head of Security can use their dosh to purchase different uniforms for their Security team, (as in, riot armor and advanced energy guns [or just lasers] for aliens, hardsuits and pinpointers for Nuclear Emergency, ballistic weaponry, in case of murderboners, etc.) or Nanotrasenized Traitor Items (or just traitor items).

[Gamarr]

Please separate this merc blahness out of the economics base. Stay focused, get a foundation first that doesn't throw a whole new thing into the mix from the get-go. Over complicating an already complicated issue.

[Drynwyn]

@Jam: Figuring out in-code if a sec officer is arresting someone for a crime as opposed to just sticking a buddy in a cell is impossible, and would be easily abused to gain dosh. Furthermore,
>paying sec for brigging people

Yeaaaaahhhh that's going to end well.

@Gamarr: For money to work well it needs to be pervasive– ideally, ever department and every individual has a reason to desire additional dosh.

Schedulewise the real work won't start until I get out of school in two weeks.

[Anton Raginovsky]

They get money for doing their job. Security Officer's get dosh by brigging people: when a timed sentence is set, it pops up a window in which the arresting officer inputs the reason for arrest, length of the sentence, and listing witnesses, any evidence acquired by the Detective, or any complications that occurred during the arrest. When complete, they swipe their ID, or PDA, a bonus is added to their account, and the report sent to the Warden's Office.

The last thing we need is more reason for Sec to brig people.

I think a better solution would be fining people for minor crimes, and saving the brig for serious offenses. The fines go into the Company Funds. If the player cannot pay the fine, they are given a choice of serving time or having funds seized (Basically, their account goes negative, I don't know if we can do that or not).

The Warden earns their dosh by processing these reports. This involves updating the records from their console, questioning the officers over the radio if all they input was "DICKS lol", getting the Detective to acquire evidence for the sentence if none has been provided, possibly questioning the prisoner themselves, if the arresting officer is untrustworthy, and, in general, making sure that the information they're putting onto the report is accurate. They then send this to the Head of Security, every report they send up the chain-of-command adding a bonus to their account.

I play the Warden a lot. Most of the time, people wouldn't (and shouldn't) be in the brig long enough for all of this to be done--especially if we begin using fines (which I think would be the best idea).

I think a better incentive would be to give heads the ability to give bonuses to employees who are doing an extra-good job. It gives a reason for the HoP to get out and observing those under him. It gives a reason for Security and everyone else to try to be extra-competent. There are a few cons to it--Shitty heads are more frequent than they should be, and not getting bonuses may lead to grief...but that's what Admins are for, right?

[Drynwyn]

The station Funds Management Console will allow for the transfer of dosh into (but not out of) individual employee's accounts. Of course, no loyal nanotrasen Captain or HoP would EVER abuse this ability. Nope, certainly not.