Command Report OP
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Command Report OP
Never thought I'd see the day but apparently shits changed enough over the years that its super useful.
I typically see only a few report items now and it usually looks something like:
1) Changeling
2) Changeling again
3) Wizard
4) Nukeops
or
1) Traitors
2) Internal Affairs
3) Clock Cult
4) Blood Cult
Basically with some simple deduction skills you can figure out the roundtype pretty early. Wizards rarely take more than 5 minutes to show up, Traitorlings have at least one person who emags some shit or stings someone early on. Likewise with LOUD NOISES you can detect revs and clock cultists extremely easily/early now.
The problem is exacerbated by non-standard modes showing up and a relatively limited list. Or maybe I'm just overreacting. It just seems a little silly for me to be able to know with 100% accuracy when an enemy WON'T be making an appearance.
I typically see only a few report items now and it usually looks something like:
1) Changeling
2) Changeling again
3) Wizard
4) Nukeops
or
1) Traitors
2) Internal Affairs
3) Clock Cult
4) Blood Cult
Basically with some simple deduction skills you can figure out the roundtype pretty early. Wizards rarely take more than 5 minutes to show up, Traitorlings have at least one person who emags some shit or stings someone early on. Likewise with LOUD NOISES you can detect revs and clock cultists extremely easily/early now.
The problem is exacerbated by non-standard modes showing up and a relatively limited list. Or maybe I'm just overreacting. It just seems a little silly for me to be able to know with 100% accuracy when an enemy WON'T be making an appearance.
- ShadowDimentio
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- Bawhoppennn
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Re: Command Report OP
I see it as something that should be integral in round progression.
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<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
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- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
- Byond Username: CPTANT
Re: Command Report OP
I thought the report was completely bullshit anyway and the roundtypes not on the report can be the actual one.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: Command Report OP
It used to have more bullshit elements but I believe it always contained the actual roundtype among a bunch of "bogus" ones.
The other bullshit got trimmed down and with the removal of other modes (Malf, Changeling, Blob, Gang, etc.) and that seems to have made the list shorter.
The result is that I usually see 3 viable modes on the list and if there's no flashing or magic in the first few minutes you can basically say "ok I think I know what we're up against".
This is a HUGE deal when the threats are all "off station", i.e. its wizard, nukeops, or clock cult... you can start beefing up access and trusting people since the threats will be external.
The other bullshit got trimmed down and with the removal of other modes (Malf, Changeling, Blob, Gang, etc.) and that seems to have made the list shorter.
The result is that I usually see 3 viable modes on the list and if there's no flashing or magic in the first few minutes you can basically say "ok I think I know what we're up against".
This is a HUGE deal when the threats are all "off station", i.e. its wizard, nukeops, or clock cult... you can start beefing up access and trusting people since the threats will be external.
- Cobby
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
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Re: Command Report OP
I recall someone specifically using that to do as robustin said so It's not too far fetched, dunno exact source though.ShadowDimentio wrote:Nobody even reads these things anyways
In all honesty it should just pick randomly with no influence on current gamemode. Sometimes an evil presence in the sector hasn't made itself aware to centcomm yet you know!
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
- Byond Username: David273
Re: Command Report OP
Who cares if one person does this? It's not like it's usually hard to find out what mode it is anyways, there's near always some idiot who murderbones at roundstart. Plus, knowing "it's NOT one of these modes" is minimally useful to all but the most ardent of powergamers.Cobby wrote:I recall someone specifically using that to do as robustin said so It's not too far fetched, dunno exact source though.ShadowDimentio wrote:Nobody even reads these things anyways
In all honesty it should just pick randomly with no influence on current gamemode. Sometimes an evil presence in the sector hasn't made itself aware to centcomm yet you know!
Spoiler:
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
- Byond Username: Dorsidwarf
- Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Re: Command Report OP
I mean the game tells you all the possible modes at roundstart, so you could just make the command report list everything possible
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- BeeSting12
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:11 am
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Re: Command Report OP
It doesn't matter if noone reads this shit. The one guy that does will announce the two possible gamemodes loudly to the crew and then the whole crew can arm up in preparation for the two gamemodes. I saw Robustin do this with both cults the other day.
- Cobby
- Code Maintainer
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Re: Command Report OP
The argument also works on the other side too, since if you have murderboners at roundstart who reveal the mode why bother with keeping the eliminating gamemodes on the paper if some individuals are concerned about it? This only then negatively impacts those that don't murdermode which is usually early team antags like cult (which is funny given beestings post)ShadowDimentio wrote: Who cares if one person does this? It's not like it's usually hard to find out what mode it is anyways, there's near always some idiot who murderbones at roundstart. Plus, knowing "it's NOT one of these modes" is minimally useful to all but the most ardent of powergamers.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
- BeeSting12
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:11 am
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- Location: 'Murica
Re: Command Report OP
Just make command reports show all possible modes for that round.
- Cobby
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
- Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
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Re: Command Report OP
Ill probably do that later then claim it's a fix for revealing antags so I can kill 2 birds with 1 gbp profit!BeeSting12 wrote:Just make command reports show all possible modes for that round.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
- BeeSting12
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:11 am
- Byond Username: BeeSting12
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- Location: 'Murica
Re: Command Report OP
I'll make an issue report kek
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: Command Report OP
I feel bad about nerfing a gimmick that so far only I've been using regularly but I came up with a quick fix for making this too easy to abuse.
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/33279
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/33279
- kevinz000
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:41 am
- Byond Username: Kevinz000
- Github Username: kevinz000
- Location: Dorm Room 3
Re: Command Report OP
just make it exclude disabled or impossible modes so you still have to guess between 5 modes wtf
Local catgirl scratching post - Shezza
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
NSFW:
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: Command Report OP
Because Kevin that would mean if an admin picked internal affairs, channeling, monkey, etc. that it's appearance in the report would be a dead giveaway.
This uses the config and thus achieves an elegant solution.
This uses the config and thus achieves an elegant solution.
- kevinz000
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:41 am
- Byond Username: Kevinz000
- Github Username: kevinz000
- Location: Dorm Room 3
Re: Command Report OP
Or just ignore that and add a clause that it might be wrong.
People who try to meta gamemodes can get fucked if they can't learn to adapt to an admin throwing a wrench in the works tbh.
People who try to meta gamemodes can get fucked if they can't learn to adapt to an admin throwing a wrench in the works tbh.
Local catgirl scratching post - Shezza
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
NSFW:
- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: Command Report OP
Kevinz for the upteenth time you fail to understand the basic concept being discussed.
Your proposal would make it EASY to meta when admins throw in an oddball mode.
My method makes it IMPOSSIBLE to tell whether the presence of something like "monkey" is a rare error or admin intervention.
Your proposal would make it EASY to meta when admins throw in an oddball mode.
My method makes it IMPOSSIBLE to tell whether the presence of something like "monkey" is a rare error or admin intervention.
- kevinz000
- Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:41 am
- Byond Username: Kevinz000
- Github Username: kevinz000
- Location: Dorm Room 3
Re: Command Report OP
I phrased it wrong I meant add a clause that says it might be wrong and not include admin forced modes.Oldman Robustin wrote:Kevinz for the upteenth time you fail to understand the basic concept being discussed.
Your proposal would make it EASY to meta when admins throw in an oddball mode.
My method makes it IMPOSSIBLE to tell whether the presence of something like "monkey" is a rare error or admin intervention.
Local catgirl scratching post - Shezza
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
NSFW:
- Ezel
- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:48 pm
- Byond Username: Improvedname
- Location: A place where locations are mini-signatures
Re: Command Report OP
Remember when it just was a list of suspects and they got extra tc if they were auctally on that list
The future is horrible!
-
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
- Byond Username: KorPhaeron
Re: Command Report OP
Way too easy to figure out the mode, needs to be changed.
- SpaceInaba
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- Oldman Robustin
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
- Byond Username: ForcefulCJS
Re: Command Report OP
There's 2 problems with it:
1) I believe the current code is returning M.probability from the config as ALWAYS false. I don't know why. The PR I made was designed to basically be "If the mode is in rotation, give it the mode's false report weight, else give it a false report weight of ONE (most modes have 10, traitor has like 20+). Since it appears to always return false, every mode is given an equal weight of one and therefore with all the meme modes you're as likely to see devils/meteors as you are traitor/nukeops.
2) It's never wrong. I tried to give the correct mode a 35% of not appearing on the list but that PR failed. That change alone would prevent any surefire metagaming since 35% is still a significant chance - so when you hear reports of flashing you can't just go "LOL NO REVS ON REPORT". Unfortunately that PR died because of some incoherent argument that the game can be more fun if you know what enemies are possible. I don't think I've ever heard a dumber argument. Being able to write off threats at roundstart will never increase paranoia, even if Problem#1 gets fixed you'll still have plenty of rounds where its down to wizard/nukeops/clockcult or something and you can basically start handing out guns at roundstart because everyone on the manifest is loyal.
1) I believe the current code is returning M.probability from the config as ALWAYS false. I don't know why. The PR I made was designed to basically be "If the mode is in rotation, give it the mode's false report weight, else give it a false report weight of ONE (most modes have 10, traitor has like 20+). Since it appears to always return false, every mode is given an equal weight of one and therefore with all the meme modes you're as likely to see devils/meteors as you are traitor/nukeops.
2) It's never wrong. I tried to give the correct mode a 35% of not appearing on the list but that PR failed. That change alone would prevent any surefire metagaming since 35% is still a significant chance - so when you hear reports of flashing you can't just go "LOL NO REVS ON REPORT". Unfortunately that PR died because of some incoherent argument that the game can be more fun if you know what enemies are possible. I don't think I've ever heard a dumber argument. Being able to write off threats at roundstart will never increase paranoia, even if Problem#1 gets fixed you'll still have plenty of rounds where its down to wizard/nukeops/clockcult or something and you can basically start handing out guns at roundstart because everyone on the manifest is loyal.
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