Admin: Imsxz
Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred:
ROUND ID HERE: 93488
Detailed summary:
I was in cargo minding my own business during a cult round. Lucie Bellerose and Sheness Hollow come in, kill me and some others. I perform no acts of violence at any point, Sheness and Lucie are both acting as sec (one is the captain, one is dressed as sec) and as such sec rules should apply, or escalation policy should apply. They did not act within the rules of either.
First, logs. You are all welcome to ctrl+f your way throught the logs to find me performing any acts of violence or cultism. You can't, I didn't. To save time, I'm just going to post all relevant logs here. Note that I was lethaled, non lethaled, lethaled, critted, murdered. All by people posing as sec, that for all intents and purposes are sec given the cult round. As such, I assumed they would follow the sec rules and not kill me, a non-violent non-antag. According to Imsxz, this is not a valid assumption and I should have killed them.
Also, this quote proves that the two self-antagging sec members were not acting in good faith.
. Someone got banned yesterday for setting the AI's laws to this yesterday. Lets show some consistency and actually follow the rules.[2018-09-05 16:35:11.259] SAY: NecromancerAnne/(Sheness Hollow) "Kill everyone not implanted except me." (Cargo Bay (69, 151, 2))
Anyway, logs. I solemnly swear I am posting all of the relevant ones up until I am murdered.
[2018-09-05 16:27:48.885] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has fired at CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with [laser] from Warehouse (NEWHP: 100) (Warehouse (74, 160, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:27:48.887] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has shot CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with [laser] (NEWHP: 80) (Warehouse (74, 160, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:27:50.750] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has stunned CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with [telescopic baton] (NEWHP: 80) (Warehouse (74, 161, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:27:52.050] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has grabbed CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) passive grab (NEWHP: 80) (Warehouse (75, 161, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:27:59.266] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has stunned CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with [telescopic baton] (NEWHP: 80) (Cargo Bay (72, 149, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:15.134] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has fired at [floor] with [laser] from Cargo Bay (Cargo Bay (69, 144, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:15.269] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has shot CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with [laser] (NEWHP: 60) (Cargo Bay (69, 145, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:22.199] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has shot CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with [disabler beam] (NEWHP: 60) (Cargo Bay (70, 151, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:22.633] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has shot CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with [disabler beam] (NEWHP: 60) (Cargo Bay (70, 151, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:29.520] ATTACK: NecromancerAnne/(Sheness Hollow) has stunned CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) (NEWHP: 60) (Cargo Bay (71, 147, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:30.010] ATTACK: NecromancerAnne/(Sheness Hollow) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with stunbaton[DC] (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 50) (Cargo Bay (71, 147, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:29.520] ATTACK: NecromancerAnne/(Sheness Hollow) has stunned CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) (NEWHP: 60) (Cargo Bay (71, 147, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:30.010] ATTACK: NecromancerAnne/(Sheness Hollow) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with stunbaton[DC] (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 50) (Cargo Bay (71, 147, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:30.484] ATTACK: NecromancerAnne/(Sheness Hollow) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with stunbaton[DC] (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 40) (Cargo Bay (71, 147, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:31.421] ATTACK: NecromancerAnne/(Sheness Hollow) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with stunbaton[DC] (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 30) (Cargo Bay (71, 147, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:32.527] ATTACK: NecromancerAnne/(Sheness Hollow) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with stunbaton[DC] (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 20) (Cargo Bay (71, 147, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:33.694] ATTACK: NecromancerAnne/(Sheness Hollow) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with stunbaton[DC] (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 12.5) (Cargo Bay (70, 147, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:34.709] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with spear (Wielded)[DC] (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -5.5) (Cargo Bay (70, 149, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:35.018] ATTACK: NecromancerAnne/(Sheness Hollow) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with stunbaton[DC] (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -15.5) (Cargo Bay (70, 147, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:35.625] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with spear (Wielded)[DC] (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -29) (Cargo Bay (70, 149, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:35.897] ATTACK: NecromancerAnne/(Sheness Hollow) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with stunbaton[DC] (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -39) (Cargo Bay (70, 147, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:36.643] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with spear (Wielded)[DC] (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -52.5) (Cargo Bay (70, 149, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:36.767] ATTACK: NecromancerAnne/(Sheness Hollow) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with stunbaton[DC] (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -62.5) (Cargo Bay (70, 147, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:37.670] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with spear (Wielded)[DC] (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -76) (Cargo Bay (70, 149, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:37.740] ATTACK: NecromancerAnne/(Sheness Hollow) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with stunbaton[DC] (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -86) (Cargo Bay (70, 147, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:38.537] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with spear (Wielded)[DC] (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -99.5) (Cargo Bay (70, 149, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:39.514] ATTACK: Eskjjlj/(Lucie Bellerose) has attacked CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) with spear (Wielded)[DC] (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -117.5) (Cargo Bay (70, 149, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:27:50.992] SAY: CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) "sup" (Warehouse (75, 160, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:27:55.675] SAY: CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) "Holy water me nigger" (Port Bow Maintenance (76, 166, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:25.467] SAY: CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) "fuck off" (Cargo Bay (71, 148, 2))
[2018-09-05 16:28:39.508] EMOTE: CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Cargo Bay (71, 148, 2))
The only things I said during the whole debacle. Notice how I started by saying "sup" whereas Lucie started by lasering me. Deciding to use lethal force, then non-lethal, then lethal. Unable to make her mind whether she wants to follow the rules or not, before finally settling on "No, fuck the rules. We don't need proof to execute people". Which is a very antag thing to think, and declaring one's self an antag used to be frowned upon, and may still be frowned upon by some admins, but not Imsxz. Maybe they are metafriends. Maybe he just doesn't care about the rules, who knows.
Anyway, I have made enough references to the rules that I should probably post them, at least for Imsxz's benefit. As they were the captain and someone in sec uniform, I thought they come under the Sec rules. If they don't I apologise and they instead come under escalation policy. Escalation policy has been utterly ignored, as they murdered me, a non-violent non-antag with an admin's full support. I did not commit a single violent act or have violent intent.
I was not an antag or acting like an antag, yet I get murdered. No honest person in their right mind could say that there was proof I was an antag, given my complete lack of antagonistic behaviour or violence. So the rules of security have been completely (and as Sheness's quote shows, deliberately) disregarded. Really makes me think. If the sec rules don't apply to those two, then they have committed even worse rule breaks by completely disregarding Escalation policy and taking someone out of the round (after murderign me they beheaded me and locked me in a locker) and a ban therefore must be in order.Security Policy & Precedents
Rule 1 of the main rules apply to security. The only exception is that security is generally considered to be armed with non-lethal methods to control a situation. Therefore, where reasonably possible, security is expected to use non-lethal methods first in a conflict before escalating to lethal methods.
Rule 4 of the main rules also apply to security. Security are not exceptions to the rule where non-antagonists can do anything they want, as per rule 4, to antagonists.
The 'act like an antag, get treated like one' part of Rule 4 of the main rules also apply to security. Stunning an officer repeatedly, using lethal or restricted weapons on them, disrupting the arrests or sentences of dangerous criminals, or damaging the brig, are examples of behaviour that may make you valid for security under Rule 4. Make sure players deserve it when you treat them as an antag, when in doubt, err on the side of caution as poor behaviour on the part of security will not be tolerated.
For arrested players, timed sentences up to a total of 10 minutes, buckle-cuffing, and stripping, are considered IC issues and are not actionable by admins. Brig sentences totaling more than 10 minutes can be adminhelped, as can be gulag or perma sentences or a pattern of illegitimate punishment. However, security should refrain from confiscating items not related to any crimes, especially important department-specific items like hard suits. Obvious exceptions to this are things like radio headsets, if players use it to harass security over the radio while being arrested.
Don’t kill asimov borgs for trying to stop harm, unless they are being excessively disruptive, for example, locking down all of security despite only one security staff member causing harm.
While it is up to the discretion of the security player, lethal force may be used on a mob of players trying to force entry into the brig. Additionally, lethal force may be used immediately on anyone trying to enter the armoury, is in the armoury, or is leaving it
Now, with such contempt for the very rules that bind the playerbase together, you would have thought that any competent admin would be foaming at the mouth at such insolence. I thought that, and I still think that. I was always under the impression that you were obligated to follow the rules, yet Imsxz disagrees.
I could post the entire conversation we had, and will on request. But in the interest of keeping this post concise, I will just post the first and most relevant message.
Whilst I appreciate the apologetic tone, this message is at odds with the rules written on the page. They had grounds to suspect me. I admit that, if what Imsxz is true (I don't know that it is, as it would mean that numerous cultists would have walked past me and outnumbered me making no attempt at all to attack or convert me) then yes it is grounds for suspicion. This would be relevant if the rules stated it was acceptable to execute people you suspect, but they don't. They state that you require proof and must err on the side of caution. Given the fact that I was a literal nonviolent non-antag, nobody can honestly say that there was proof. Maybe if I had picked up a dagger, ran around shitposting chants or attacked someone then I would have agreed. None of those happened. I was in a room full of what may or may not have been cultists (I saw no runes or daggers at any point, nor heard any chants so I have no reason at all to suspect that they were) yet was still executed with nonlethal means available. This is in direct violation of two sec rules.every other cargo tech was a cult and sec isnt in any position to take chances at the moment. chaplain got murked early, AI was subverted, and the cult has a shitload of traction. Everyone else in your department (including the mining outpost) being culted is reason enough to suspect you in this instance. Sorry my man
If you treat both of the self-antagging (non)valid hunters as not being security forces, despite being dresses and armed like them, then they have completely disregarded escalation policy by murdering myself, who at no point committed any violent acts and then beheading me and sticking it an a locker. At no point did they attempt to bring me back to life.
The fact that the cult had a lot of members is irrelevant in whether the rules should be laxed for security or not. It is the responsibility of sec to protect against the cult. They can not defend against their own incompetence in killing non-antags by pointing out their incompetence on preventing antags. This is in danger of creating a new meta, where Sec officers ERP in brig all round then murderbone everyone, regardless of validity.
TL;DR Murdered without proof based on a suspicion in direct conflict with the rules. Imsxz doesn't know the rules and thought this was ok.