[Krusvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift
- Reeeee
- Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:46 am
- Byond Username: LibbySnow
- Location: SPESS
[Krusvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift
Server: Bagel/Bagil/Basil
Player: Libbysnow
Admin: Krusvik
The round this incident took place was Round #118251 on Bagil. Relevant logfiles are as follows: src, statbus, scrubby
Detailed summary:
admin used admin power to spawn in antagonist tools (antivom board) as person who should never ICly use them on extended (captain) and abused them to make me the player a bad guy (antimov AI) and then acted hurt i "ruined his gimmick" by acting like a bad guy (existing as antimov AI)
No guidance was given, just one human antimov, making me immediately valid to all crew.
I was antagonized by antag tools on greenshift due to admin pressing buttons to make his game "better".
In the end, he refused to engage in his own gimmick and i had nothing to do but watch crew kill me as said admin hid somewhere with his sensors off and entire crew planning to kill me, resulting in me having no shell to play the gimmick with.
Detailed logs included, thanks TheMythicGhost.
Nobody enjoyed that round.
Should this person have admin buttons if these are the results?
Personal injury irrelevant, i see this as abuse and repeated behavior.
this is the same guy who made a invincible axe murderer with teleport and two click kill weapon and considered it "fair"
then acted entitled about people not enjoying dying to it, related, but not log dived for and based on hearsay and pasted logs I read.
Included as further character defining action.
*Edited for accuracy, typos and editing this edit in. For... clarity.*
Player: Libbysnow
Admin: Krusvik
The round this incident took place was Round #118251 on Bagil. Relevant logfiles are as follows: src, statbus, scrubby
Detailed summary:
admin used admin power to spawn in antagonist tools (antivom board) as person who should never ICly use them on extended (captain) and abused them to make me the player a bad guy (antimov AI) and then acted hurt i "ruined his gimmick" by acting like a bad guy (existing as antimov AI)
No guidance was given, just one human antimov, making me immediately valid to all crew.
I was antagonized by antag tools on greenshift due to admin pressing buttons to make his game "better".
In the end, he refused to engage in his own gimmick and i had nothing to do but watch crew kill me as said admin hid somewhere with his sensors off and entire crew planning to kill me, resulting in me having no shell to play the gimmick with.
Detailed logs included, thanks TheMythicGhost.
Nobody enjoyed that round.
Should this person have admin buttons if these are the results?
Personal injury irrelevant, i see this as abuse and repeated behavior.
this is the same guy who made a invincible axe murderer with teleport and two click kill weapon and considered it "fair"
then acted entitled about people not enjoying dying to it, related, but not log dived for and based on hearsay and pasted logs I read.
Included as further character defining action.
*Edited for accuracy, typos and editing this edit in. For... clarity.*
Last edited by Reeeee on Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:52 am, edited 3 times in total.
- Nabski
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:42 pm
- Byond Username: Nabski
- Github Username: Nabski89
- Location: TN
Re: [Kursvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift
I'm confused.
Did they just create the board for someone ELSE to use while observing the round. Likely in an attempt to make a semi-unique extended story.
OR
Did they give themselves the board to use.
Did they just create the board for someone ELSE to use while observing the round. Likely in an attempt to make a semi-unique extended story.
OR
Did they give themselves the board to use.
-
- Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:40 pm
- Byond Username: Crashmatusow
Re: [Kursvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift
This was a really dangerous move. The captain basically created ai that was compelled to kill him and then itself, and collateral was highly likely. This could have been better handled with a harmful nonhuman law under asimov.
Also what’s the point of extended anymore.
Also what’s the point of extended anymore.
-
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:09 pm
- Byond Username: Deirun
Re: [Kursvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift
If I am reading the logs correctly it seems to be the latter:Nabski wrote:I'm confused.
Did they just create the board for someone ELSE to use while observing the round. Likely in an attempt to make a semi-unique extended story.
OR
Did they give themselves the board to use.
[2019-09-10 06:04:44.454] GAME: Krusvik/(Krusvik Gustav) Client Krusvik/(Krusvik Gustav) has taken ownership of mob (/mob/living/carbon/human) (Captain's Quarters (118, 137, 2))
Krusvik spawns as captain.
[2019-09-10 06:08:04.663] ADMIN: Krusvik re-adminned themselves.
Krusvik gives themselves admin powers.
[2019-09-10 06:11:40.193] LAW: Krusvik/Krusvik Gustav used 'OneHuman' AI Module on libbysnow/(K1TTY) from AI Upload Chamber (100, 151, 2). The law specified Krusvik Gustav
Krusvik makes themselves the only human.
[2019-09-10 06:12:45.560] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Krusvik Gustav) created a /obj/item/aiModule/core/full/antimov
Krusvik uses admin powers to spawn an antimov board.
[2019-09-10 06:13:00.928] LAW: Krusvik/Krusvik Gustav used 'Antimov' Core AI Module on libbysnow/(K1TTY) from AI Upload Chamber (100, 151, 2).
Krusvik uploads antimov
[2019-09-10 06:13:01.981] LAW: Krusvik/Krusvik Gustav used 'OneHuman' AI Module on libbysnow/(K1TTY) from AI Upload Chamber (100, 151, 2). The law specified Krusvik Gustav
Krusvik makes themselves the only human again.
Please call me an idiot if I am reading the logs incorrectly.
Edit: After the end of the round Krusvik says the following in OOC: [2019-09-10 06:55:57.604] OOC: Krusvik/(Krusvik Gustav) "It's sad, really all you had to do was play the round as normal and sometimes try to kill me." (CentCom Recovery Ship (198, 83, 1))
This is incorrect for two reasons:
1: An antimov one-humaned AI's entire reason for existence is to harm the one human, even if it causes massive collateral damage.
2: Should the one human actually die, Law 3 forces the AI and all linked silicons to commit suicide.
- Reeeee
- Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:46 am
- Byond Username: LibbySnow
- Location: SPESS
Re: [Kursvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift
This one.Nabski wrote:Did they give themselves the board to use.
"Krusvik gives Krusvik Antimov" is how I read the logs and no discussion happens otherwise to prove anything else on logs.
On side tangent, what was wrong with Freeform Asimov 4: "kill nonhuman captain".
OR
Freeform Asimov 4: "occasionally attempt to kill the nonhuman captain, this cannot cause human harm, but do clone him afterwards"
OR
*BWOINK* "hey i wanna run a gimmick, you game?"
- Krusvik
- Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:19 pm
- Byond Username: Krusvik
Re: [Krusvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift
My response will be in two parts.
Part one, my mistakes as an admin:
Firstly, I should not have given myself an item from the game panel while participating in the round.
Secondly, I assume responsibility for anyone unlawfully killed during my extended event, it's no different than creating a bomb and setting it off as non-antag.
Thirdly, Antimov law 3 was a grave oversight, and something I regret in earnest. It was unfair to you to be given a law that demands you kill yourself.
These are my failures as a Game Master, and a prime example of running too fast and tripping over your own feet.
For this, I am sorry.
Part two, everything else & my personal opinion:
Part one, my mistakes as an admin:
Firstly, I should not have given myself an item from the game panel while participating in the round.
Secondly, I assume responsibility for anyone unlawfully killed during my extended event, it's no different than creating a bomb and setting it off as non-antag.
Thirdly, Antimov law 3 was a grave oversight, and something I regret in earnest. It was unfair to you to be given a law that demands you kill yourself.
These are my failures as a Game Master, and a prime example of running too fast and tripping over your own feet.
For this, I am sorry.
Part two, everything else & my personal opinion:
Spoiler:
- Reeeee
- Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:46 am
- Byond Username: LibbySnow
- Location: SPESS
Re: [Krusvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift
I don't want you to be punished, far from it and all my salt is done now i am kinda meh about the whole deal emotionally. I moved on. I want you to be be responsible and be held responsible when you fuck up so i don't have to immediately "ghost" when i see you for fear of repeated behavior.
Your judgement is in question. That has not changed.
Your personality was never questioned other than on "are you capable of judgement calls while having admen buttens".
If people start to self moderate and start to call subjects closed because they say so.... it never ends and you learn nothing, shitriver escalates and you keep doing poor judgement calls ad nauseam. I mean you at least admit to having made poor calls but...
Imagine if all admins handled all ahelps concerning them and refused to let anyone else chime in? That's already in the rools as a no-no. Hows admin complaints different from ahelp? It's even more hot subject and should be even more tightly controlled.
Consider i ahelped you. You just closed the ahelp. Then you said "sorry" and that's supposed to be end of it?
Let's see any other admin try that in-game in any context, see how fast we end up on this same subforum.
I don't have any negative emotions towards you besides; " i will consider ghosting if I see that name from now on".
Apologies don't affect that.
I had assumed you'd have presence of mind to tell me the rules of this cat and mouse or SOMEONE would somehow since CAPTAIN used ADMIN ONLY ANTAG tools on greenshift, that's why I closed the original ahelp.
After that I only saw you and trialmin online, I'd imagine that ahelp would have ended with you with saying "it's fine" to trialmin.
In hindsight i should have just ghosted and explained why i did so but if hindsight solved all problems, we would not be here.
THAT is the issue, not my feelings. If i judged people based on emotions, probably 70% of peeps would have admin complaints. I call YOUR JUDGEMENT to question, you cannot seriously consider that YOU apologizing, whether honestly or because you have literary skills to write an apology, is good enough to consider matter closed?
Therefore someone else has to make the judgement of if this needs follow up or not. Not you nor me can make any judgement calls on the matter. We are the aggrieved parties, the decision to DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IF ANYTHING cannot be in OUR hands.
That's literally tyranny, in the sense of "arbitrary use of power or control".
If i wanted an apology to consider matter closed, you'd have PM, not an admin complaint thread.
I moved it to a public forum to have someone else take the matter from our hands to be dealt as they saw fit.
Headmins enjoy my 100% trust.
Us two, I don't have any trust in us to handle this matter rationally since we were PART OF IT AND CAUSED IT.
Mod edit: About half of this post is the poster assuming that Krusvik is closing his own complaint; this confusion was since resolved, but this post will be left up as-is. Please don't comment on this confusion further, or it will be considered off-topic.
Your judgement is in question. That has not changed.
Your personality was never questioned other than on "are you capable of judgement calls while having admen buttens".
It ain't closed until someone from headmin choir say their two cents on the matter, however long that takes.Krusvik wrote: This can be resolved as a successful complaint.
If people start to self moderate and start to call subjects closed because they say so.... it never ends and you learn nothing, shitriver escalates and you keep doing poor judgement calls ad nauseam. I mean you at least admit to having made poor calls but...
Imagine if all admins handled all ahelps concerning them and refused to let anyone else chime in? That's already in the rools as a no-no. Hows admin complaints different from ahelp? It's even more hot subject and should be even more tightly controlled.
Consider i ahelped you. You just closed the ahelp. Then you said "sorry" and that's supposed to be end of it?
Let's see any other admin try that in-game in any context, see how fast we end up on this same subforum.
I don't have any negative emotions towards you besides; " i will consider ghosting if I see that name from now on".
Apologies don't affect that.
I had assumed you'd have presence of mind to tell me the rules of this cat and mouse or SOMEONE would somehow since CAPTAIN used ADMIN ONLY ANTAG tools on greenshift, that's why I closed the original ahelp.
After that I only saw you and trialmin online, I'd imagine that ahelp would have ended with you with saying "it's fine" to trialmin.
In hindsight i should have just ghosted and explained why i did so but if hindsight solved all problems, we would not be here.
THAT is the issue, not my feelings. If i judged people based on emotions, probably 70% of peeps would have admin complaints. I call YOUR JUDGEMENT to question, you cannot seriously consider that YOU apologizing, whether honestly or because you have literary skills to write an apology, is good enough to consider matter closed?
Therefore someone else has to make the judgement of if this needs follow up or not. Not you nor me can make any judgement calls on the matter. We are the aggrieved parties, the decision to DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IF ANYTHING cannot be in OUR hands.
That's literally tyranny, in the sense of "arbitrary use of power or control".
If i wanted an apology to consider matter closed, you'd have PM, not an admin complaint thread.
I moved it to a public forum to have someone else take the matter from our hands to be dealt as they saw fit.
Headmins enjoy my 100% trust.
Us two, I don't have any trust in us to handle this matter rationally since we were PART OF IT AND CAUSED IT.
Mod edit: About half of this post is the poster assuming that Krusvik is closing his own complaint; this confusion was since resolved, but this post will be left up as-is. Please don't comment on this confusion further, or it will be considered off-topic.
- Hulkamania
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:42 pm
- Byond Username: Hulkamania
Re: [Krusvik] libbysnow - antimov on greenshift
We will be upholding this complaint.
Krusvik himself has admitted that he was at fault in this circumstance and has spoken about it both here and in admin-bus. Spawning things in during a round you are participating in is a large overstepping of admin powers and as such, the complaint is valid on those grounds presented.
As far as punishment we have elected to not to take any specific action outside speaking with Krusvik about the incident. Him admitting that he is at fault and owning up to the mistake is all the evidence that we need that similar incidents will not occur with him in the future. It requires a great deal of maturity to be self-aware enough to accept that you've made a mistake in a public forum such as this, and for that we respect Krusvik's handling of this complaint.
Krusvik himself has admitted that he was at fault in this circumstance and has spoken about it both here and in admin-bus. Spawning things in during a round you are participating in is a large overstepping of admin powers and as such, the complaint is valid on those grounds presented.
As far as punishment we have elected to not to take any specific action outside speaking with Krusvik about the incident. Him admitting that he is at fault and owning up to the mistake is all the evidence that we need that similar incidents will not occur with him in the future. It requires a great deal of maturity to be self-aware enough to accept that you've made a mistake in a public forum such as this, and for that we respect Krusvik's handling of this complaint.
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