Arianya wrote:The rules have generally been of two different opinions about this, because there are pros and cons to each.
You'll note that just above the part you've quoted of the rules, under Silicon protections we have two rules that go like so:
The occurrence of such an attempt should be adminhelped and then disregarded.
you missed the part right before this, too, let's have a look at the full statement.
from
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Silicon_Protections
Asimov-Specific Policies wrote:Silicon protections.
Declarations of the silicons as rogue over inability or unwillingness to follow invalid or conflicting orders is a violation of Server Rule 1. The occurrence of such an attempt should be adminhelped and then disregarded.
the quote your were making refers to invalid or conflicting orders, unless someone ordered you not to kill a non-human, an order to kill one is in no way invalid or conflicting with the asimov lawset.
Basically, there are two schools of thought. One is that if something seems sus you should ahelp it and either delay or disregard it until an admin gives the OK or not - the theory being that generally these messes are a pain to clean up with admin tools if they're found to be illegitimate.
regarding this "school of thought", it is not very clear without knowing admins' opinions, and it should be added to the rules if there is such policy going around and telling you straight up conflicting things, for example, in the rules, you are told you must follow your laws, and that even if they cause you grief, you must follow them, even if you are allowed to delay it a bit
from
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Asim ... w_2_Issues
Asimov & Law 2 Issues wrote:1. You must follow any and all commands from humans unless those commands explicitly conflict with either one of your higher-priority laws or another order. A command is considered to be a Law 2 directive and overrides lower-priority laws when they conflict (see 1.2.3 and 1.2.4; you cannot have a definition changed by an order).
1. In case of conflicting orders an AI is free to ignore one or ignore both orders and explain the conflict or use any other law-compliant solution it can see.
2. You are not obligated to follow commands in a particular order (FIFO, FILO, etc.), only to complete all of them in a manner that indicates intent to actually obey the law.
[snipped 2. for being irrelevant]
3. When given an order likely to cause you grief if completed, you can announce it as loudly and in whatever terms you like except for explicitly asking that it be overridden. You can say you don't like the order, that you don't want to follow it, etc., you can say that you sure would like it and it would be awfully convenient if someone ordered you not to do it, and you can ask if anyone would like to make you not do it. However, you cannot stall indefinitely and if nobody orders you otherwise, you must execute the order.
emphasis is mine.
The other school of thought is that we shouldn't have OOC considerations intervening in the flow of the round - if someone makes an rule breaking order then they're dealt with but the order still happened in the round.
as we can see from the above, this is the intent of the rules that can be more easily gathered by the good-faith, rules-aware player, and the one that should have more attention paid to, in my oppinion, since it is clearly expressed in the rules without needing mental gymnastics to reach.
There are pros and cons to both - no one wants to be the AI that suicided immediately because they didn't want to get bwoinked over non law compliance only to be told they shouldn't have suicided and must now remain dead for the rest of the round.
to counter this point, I'd like to quote the following
from
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Sili ... r_Policies
Silicons & All Other Server Policies wrote:1. All other rules and policies apply unless stated otherwise.
This clearly means the main rules, one of which is "Don't be a dick", still apply to silicons, and they shouldn't only follow silicon policy.
I believe you are totally being a dick if you refuse to follow an order to kill a non-human since the whole point of being a silicon is following your laws and listening to humans' commands as long as they comply with your laws.
You are being a dick because you're fucking over everyone that tries to get inmersed in the game, you're not following the expectative that the rules and the setting creates that you will follow commands as long as they comply with your laws.
You can't say that it is also dickish to kill a non-human player just because they're non-human, first off because that is still disallowed, silicons can do it when ordered to or when they're harmful, and second off, because non-human players also have an expectative of you when they choose to play as such, they trade off their protection from you for their uniqueness, it should come to no surprise to them when the AI gives them a different treatment from humans — they should even want them to, or their character becomes just a reskinned human that can't order the AI but is still protected by it.
Realistically follow your heart - if you ahelp it no admin is really gonna give you shit over ahelping a sketch order, and if you follow it the onus is on the order giver, barring some gross misinterpretation. Neither instance ends up with you specifically in trouble so just do what your gut tells you is the correct thing at that time.
I believe this should be treated in a different way, you should get in trouble if you maliciously ignore orders because you take pity on a non-human player, fucking over the humans you are told by your lawset and the rules you should obey, even when the order-giver is doing so in a rule-breaking fashion, since it is an OOC concept that should not interfere with the round, everyone else that hears the order and doesn't see the AI following it could, in good-faith, assume that it is rogue because of such, and that the player that gave the order, when done in a self-antag fashion, could assume, also in good-faith, that he is an antag because he's acting as such.