remove kilo map from config
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- Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:16 am
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remove kilo map from config
this map designed for low pop (10 -20 people) has never worked other than make people log off and come back in 30 min or to get people to grief it until shuttle arrives, the mapvoter force picks it randomly so you cant even vote it when its actually low pop and get it force picked even on 70 pop.
map can be griefed in 1 minute and antags tend to just to bomb and flood plasma to get a early shuttle call and play maps worth their name, (yes even ice box is more liked than kilo), the small circle hallway means a bomb will destroy at least a department and make every other lose air, it has no interesting gameplay other than spider in maint WOO!!! *cums in pants*,
and no space in departments for people to make unique cool shit like every other map has, it has same problems omega had which this was based off, crampy , uninteresting and makes you suicide instead of playing the game as intended.
there are other map like tram (played 3 times and at least its more fun than kilo 's spider in maint) which can replace kilo while the other snow map can replace ice box and make voting not a 'people who want to play vs people voting shit map to grief and log off war' but instead an array of playable maps u can have fun without even caring about what gets picked.
low pop maps arent needed as we have servers with split timezones, of course there will be only 2 people on 4 AM to 10 AM in a specific timezone, people will just go on other timezone server with higher pop.
for the rest of the day low pop map is just unfun for anyone, there isnt more interaction because most people cant even do what job they signed for and join the suicide/ grief the map train.
there havent been any actual changes to map to make it more playable other than some minor fixes, if no one likes it and no one wants to fix it why not pull a donut and get other maps in who look way better like tram and ice map 2 in?
!!!! if u havent played in a month dont comment i dont care about people that are detached from the real game and live in their own eco system !!!!
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Re: remove kilo map from config
I agree on that, Kilo station is very very cramped at pop >40 which makes playing team antags like cult/revs a pain, there is almost no bigger places in maint (3x3 areas) what makes for poor cult bases and heretic hideouts. On fastmos one can of plasma was enough to fry all hallways and god forbids someone bombs any department, its just painful.
- Agux909
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Re: remove kilo map from config
In my humble opinion:
Remove Kilo, bring back Donut (with no multi-z).
Remove Kilo, bring back Donut (with no multi-z).
- joooks
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Re: remove kilo map from config
While kilo is inheretly not a bad map, it does suffer a lot when there are above 30 or 40 players, I've enjoyed playing it on lowpop but on higher pops it just ends up being an absolute grieffest
former tgmc admin and tgstation trial admin
who is this guy lol i think hes in timonks signature
who is this guy lol i think hes in timonks signature
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- wesoda25
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Re: remove kilo map from config
Seems about time a pop limit was put in place, I believe inept said somewhere between 45-50 would be good (so lets do 45).
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Re: remove kilo map from config
When kilo was first rolled out (before it was taken off rotation due to a technical bug and put back in when that was fixed) I remember two key complaints and those were mobs in maint and decals, perhaps it's just the evolution of the meta babies griefing any map that doesn't resemble metastation.
The same poster, over and over and over and over and over and-
- XivilaiAnaxes
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Re: remove kilo map from config
When they came for donut Station I did not speak, because I was not a donut fan.
Now they come for Kilo Station. Who will speak for me?
Now they come for Kilo Station. Who will speak for me?
Stickymayhem wrote:Imagine the sheer narcisssim required to genuinely believe you are this intelligent.
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Re: remove kilo map from config
saying kilo is bad because it always gets griefed in a policy discussion thread? powerful, if it were me i'd say the problem is that we should ban the people who grief kilo as non-antagkieth4 wrote:Kilo ALWAYS gets griefed and is a bad map. Remove it please.
kilo is fine, if the problem is population then a pop limit is the real solution, which is already a config option. either wesoda or maurukas, i forget which, made a thread about it, not sure where it led.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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- wesoda25
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Re: remove kilo map from config
No but i’ll make one
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Re: remove kilo map from config
no activity in a whole month, please dont speakXivilaiAnaxes wrote:When they came for donut Station I did not speak, because I was not a donut fan.
Now they come for Kilo Station. Who will speak for me?
>kilo is fine, if the problem is population then a pop limit is the real solution, which is already a config option. either wesoda or maurukas, i forget which, made a thread about it, not sure where it led.
if its fine why does it win vote only when mapvoter forces it? is it only fine for bagil dead pop?
- Istoprocent1
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Re: remove kilo map from config
I support removing Kilo.
Alternatively: Move Donut, Kilo, Ice and Tram to US/RP servers. Kilo is unplayable, unless its just afk bar RP.
Alternatively: Move Donut, Kilo, Ice and Tram to US/RP servers. Kilo is unplayable, unless its just afk bar RP.
- TheFinalPotato
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Re: remove kilo map from config
Donut is not in the codebase, what you are suggesting is a code change
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Re: remove kilo map from config
when you guys say it suffers a lot from highpop, are you saying that because theres some sort of issue you believe is a result of the map not being able to fit the amount of players (if so, can you put these into something tangible that isnt "oh it just isnt suitable at this pop")?
Is the issue that when its highpop, the same people who tend to be on during "high pop hours" look for a reason to end the station or otherwise make the round miserable? Is the issue that you're REALLY poking at ACTUALLY related to the map?
Is the issue you just dont like the map and you want it config bound to a playercap you personally wouldnt play on?
Like what are your metrics for "ideal popcount" when it comes to the map?
Is the issue that when its highpop, the same people who tend to be on during "high pop hours" look for a reason to end the station or otherwise make the round miserable? Is the issue that you're REALLY poking at ACTUALLY related to the map?
Is the issue you just dont like the map and you want it config bound to a playercap you personally wouldnt play on?
Like what are your metrics for "ideal popcount" when it comes to the map?
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- XivilaiAnaxes
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Re: remove kilo map from config
StfuTlaltecuhtli wrote:no activity in a whole month, please dont speakXivilaiAnaxes wrote:When they came for donut Station I did not speak, because I was not a donut fan.
Now they come for Kilo Station. Who will speak for me?
>kilo is fine, if the problem is population then a pop limit is the real solution, which is already a config option. either wesoda or maurukas, i forget which, made a thread about it, not sure where it led.
if its fine why does it win vote only when mapvoter forces it? is it only fine for bagil dead pop?
Stickymayhem wrote:Imagine the sheer narcisssim required to genuinely believe you are this intelligent.
- zxaber
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Re: remove kilo map from config
I personally don't mind the map when I'm the only roboticist but it feels a bit cramped with two of us there. I wouldn't be surprised if other jobs are like that.Cobby wrote:when you guys say it suffers a lot from highpop, are you saying that because theres some sort of issue you believe is a result of the map not being able to fit the amount of players (if so, can you put these into something tangible that isnt "oh it just isnt suitable at this pop")?
Is the issue that when its highpop, the same people who tend to be on during "high pop hours" look for a reason to end the station or otherwise make the round miserable? Is the issue that you're REALLY poking at ACTUALLY related to the map?
Is the issue you just dont like the map and you want it config bound to a playercap you personally wouldnt play on?
Like what are your metrics for "ideal popcount" when it comes to the map?
The halls feel more crowded and chaotic than other maps, but it's possible that's due to robotics facing a main hallway rather than the usual departures offshoot.
I wouldn't mind trying the map in a "half all job slots that have more than one slot" configuration during lowpop hours, I'm curious if it improves things or just leaves the station feeling empty.
- Sylphet
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Re: remove kilo map from config
The map is fine for the most part and giving in to the same people who lose their minds and nonantag griff to end it faster every time a map that isn't meta is picked is a terrible mistake. It's definitely overcrowded on highpop, the map only works up to around 40 people, and if a population cap can be done through config, then it should be.
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https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 37&t=27175
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 37&t=27175
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Re: remove kilo map from config
there are no 'metababies' on delta or ice its only kilo that compared to the rest is just integrally limited, fragile and an eyesore, it has the same vibes of donut but even smaller
- Indie-ana Jones
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Re: remove kilo map from config
I don't really think its non-antags griefing it, its just that if you are an antag detonating explosives is the easiest way to kill a bunch of people. Small, cramped station now even made worse with fastmos, its way too easy to sabotage the integrity of the station.
- Screemonster
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Re: remove kilo map from config
how hard would it be to be like "explosives cost more TC or are outright unavailable on this map"Indie-ana Jones wrote:I don't really think its non-antags griefing it, its just that if you are an antag detonating explosives is the easiest way to kill a bunch of people. Small, cramped station now even made worse with fastmos, its way too easy to sabotage the integrity of the station.
likewise for a station on a planet's surface with breathable atmos you might make explosives cheaper as breaches are inherently less dangerous
- Mothblocks
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Re: remove kilo map from config
answering strictly on difficulty, not hard, but it feels like a copout. a solution like more reinforced walls or whatever, something that's actually engrained into the map's design itself, would be a better solution.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
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Re: remove kilo map from config
then what? remove toxins and atmos? remove chemistry? why rebalance the game around a map when we have 2 new maps that dont have the same problems almost finished?Screemonster wrote:how hard would it be to be like "explosives cost more TC or are outright unavailable on this map"Indie-ana Jones wrote:I don't really think its non-antags griefing it, its just that if you are an antag detonating explosives is the easiest way to kill a bunch of people. Small, cramped station now even made worse with fastmos, its way too easy to sabotage the integrity of the station.
likewise for a station on a planet's surface with breathable atmos you might make explosives cheaper as breaches are inherently less dangerous
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Re: remove kilo map from config
Just played a round on kilo where a bomb went off roundstart and the whole station got depressurized 5 minutes later killing the whole crew.
It's not very fun.
It's not very fun.
- wesoda25
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Re: remove kilo map from config
That strengthens the argument for a pop cap.
Kilo is balanced by the population it sustains. Once pop increases and more uplink items become available, kilo becomes less feasible/sustainable as a station.
It’s simply not built for higher pops, and allowing it to run on them is just going to make more people irrationally hate it since they don’t get to see it run in a healthy environment
Kilo is balanced by the population it sustains. Once pop increases and more uplink items become available, kilo becomes less feasible/sustainable as a station.
It’s simply not built for higher pops, and allowing it to run on them is just going to make more people irrationally hate it since they don’t get to see it run in a healthy environment
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: remove kilo map from config
really easy, you can straight up have different job numbers and custom jobs n shit as well. Ministation (The lowpopiest map of them all) used to have thatScreemonster wrote:how hard would it be to be like "explosives cost more TC or are outright unavailable on this map"Indie-ana Jones wrote:I don't really think its non-antags griefing it, its just that if you are an antag detonating explosives is the easiest way to kill a bunch of people. Small, cramped station now even made worse with fastmos, its way too easy to sabotage the integrity of the station.
likewise for a station on a planet's surface with breathable atmos you might make explosives cheaper as breaches are inherently less dangerous
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- Farquaar
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Re: remove kilo map from config
I don't mind Kilo.
Then again, I also like it when the station is blown to smitheroons. Chaos is fun.
Then again, I also like it when the station is blown to smitheroons. Chaos is fun.
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Re: remove kilo map from config
I mean, you'd still need to add it to the code, but it should definitely be doable.Not-Dorsidarf wrote:really easy, you can straight up have different job numbers and custom jobs n shit as well. Ministation (The lowpopiest map of them all) used to have thatScreemonster wrote:how hard would it be to be like "explosives cost more TC or are outright unavailable on this map"Indie-ana Jones wrote:I don't really think its non-antags griefing it, its just that if you are an antag detonating explosives is the easiest way to kill a bunch of people. Small, cramped station now even made worse with fastmos, its way too easy to sabotage the integrity of the station.
likewise for a station on a planet's surface with breathable atmos you might make explosives cheaper as breaches are inherently less dangerous
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- saprasam
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Re: remove kilo map from config
if the station is universally disliked and can be destroyed easily because of how tiny the map is maybe it shouldn’t exist
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Re: remove kilo map from config
you're not in charge of universality
- Ayy Lemoh
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Re: remove kilo map from config
I don't dislike it as a lowpop map. Next point,saprasam wrote:if the station is universally disliked
Code issue. While one could argue that toxins exists, people have mentioned beforehand about how we HAVE ways to prevent certain antag items being available depending on conditions.saprasam wrote:and can be destroyed easily
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Re: remove kilo map from config
Can you provide a round number? This is the only instance I've heard of this happening.Eskjjlj wrote:Just played a round on kilo where a bomb went off roundstart and the whole station got depressurized 5 minutes later killing the whole crew.
It's not very fun.
I'm in favor of a population cap, but I'm not certain if the system for this is built into the game yet or not.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
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Re: remove kilo map from config
Kilo is not much more open than any other station. I have immense doubts that Kilo specifically has issues with atmospherics drain in comparison to something like Tramstation, which can have the atmospherics sapped from almost all the main departments and halls with a breach at the central section of the station, on both zlevels, simply because the only thing stopping that from happening is a singe rwindow and the mapped in holofans that poorly split the station in half, and also poorly act as firelocks.
Meanwhile, kilo has mapped in actual firelocks that prevent gas flow along the central halls to small sections, which Tram does not.
Meanwhile, kilo has mapped in actual firelocks that prevent gas flow along the central halls to small sections, which Tram does not.
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Re: remove kilo map from config
yeah maybe for 1x1 holes but a syndi bomb or maxcap in hallway will reach bridge, half of the departments the station has and the firelocks wont do shit as people will constantly open main hall firelocks or just by the fact that the small damage AoE just breaks most walls making air sip out of maints and even reach the bridge space area
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Re: remove kilo map from config
This is true of literally any map in which firelocks will conceivably impede people, and is pointless to say.Tlaltecuhtli wrote:and the firelocks wont do shit as people will constantly open main hall firelocks
- Vekter
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Re: remove kilo map from config
I think there's a real discussion to be had about capping the map to only run at under 30 pop, but I don't think it should be removed.
Until we can get a solid resolution to the matter, please don't do shit like early call or try to force a shuttle call because you don't like the map. This is seen as griefing and you can be bwoinked for it.
Until we can get a solid resolution to the matter, please don't do shit like early call or try to force a shuttle call because you don't like the map. This is seen as griefing and you can be bwoinked for it.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
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- MrStonedOne
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Re: remove kilo map from config
maps.txt has min/max pop configs
admins can see what this is set to on any given server for any of the configured maps by looking at the numbers next to the map in the change map admin verb. 15-inf/0-20/etc
admins can see what this is set to on any given server for any of the configured maps by looking at the numbers next to the map in the change map admin verb. 15-inf/0-20/etc
- Vekter
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Re: remove kilo map from config
I mentioned this in adminbus earlier but maybe we should set Kilo to only run under 30 players? 20 would be fine but I've seen it on 30 with little to no issues.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
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- Denton
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Re: remove kilo map from config
I set off a maxcap at the HoPline:Vekter wrote:Can you provide a round number? This is the only instance I've heard of this happening.Eskjjlj wrote:Just played a round on kilo where a bomb went off roundstart and the whole station got depressurized 5 minutes later killing the whole crew.
It's not very fun.
I'm in favor of a population cap, but I'm not certain if the system for this is built into the game yet or not.
Spoiler:
I can't comment much on Kilo gameplay as I haven't played in some time, but I'm generally not a fan of downsized maps since players (among other things) vent boredom by either 1) working together on construction projects or 2) tiding.
If departments are tiny and there is very little space in maint, it's obvious what's more attractive. Hell, the cargo bay is so tiny that you can't even build a BSA inside it.
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Re: remove kilo map from config
20 maybe 30 is too much
>I set off a maxcap at the HoPline:
ok now simulate 10 people opening firelocks around because they arent gonna stand still in the airless room and you ll get a fine fastmos no air too cold no pressure hallway for 50% of the map
>I set off a maxcap at the HoPline:
ok now simulate 10 people opening firelocks around because they arent gonna stand still in the airless room and you ll get a fine fastmos no air too cold no pressure hallway for 50% of the map
- Denton
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Re: remove kilo map from config
Yea that's fair enoughTlaltecuhtli wrote:ok now simulate 10 people opening firelocks around because they arent gonna stand still in the airless room and you ll get a fine fastmos no air too cold no pressure hallway for 50% of the map
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Re: remove kilo map from config
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/159348Vekter wrote:Can you provide a round number? This is the only instance I've heard of this happening.Eskjjlj wrote:Just played a round on kilo where a bomb went off roundstart and the whole station got depressurized 5 minutes later killing the whole crew.
It's not very fun.
I'm in favor of a population cap, but I'm not certain if the system for this is built into the game yet or not.
Painful round with the whole station depressurized
- CPTANT
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Re: remove kilo map from config
Maxpop: Yes
Remove: No
Can we please stop removing lowpop maps? We have had ages where there were literally no low pop maps and gameplay during those times suffered from it.
Remove: No
Can we please stop removing lowpop maps? We have had ages where there were literally no low pop maps and gameplay during those times suffered from it.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- TheFinalPotato
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Re: remove kilo map from config
This is way too low. see inept's posts in the other thread which is actually about pop caps for the map rather then trying to remove it via config https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 33&t=28866Vekter wrote:I mentioned this in adminbus earlier but maybe we should set Kilo to only run under 30 players? 20 would be fine but I've seen it on 30 with little to no issues.
This isn't kilo's fault, it's the fault of the behavior and approach people have towards firelocks, which is something myself and a few other people are currently working on. Hell there's a pr up right now that would lessen what you're describing here.Tlal wrote: ok now simulate 10 people opening firelocks around because they arent gonna stand still in the airless room and you ll get a fine fastmos no air too cold no pressure hallway for 50% of the map
That's not to say explosions aren't by nature going to be more devastating on a smaller map, but that's not an unexpected cost
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