Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
- SuperNovaa41
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Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
Heretic is an antagonist type designed around murdering a lot of people. Most objectives involve sacrificing a specific amount of people, or murdering people etc. The core mechanic of advancing as a heretic also almost always involves murdering.
it's current population requirement of zero means that lowpop rounds are flooded with constant heretic rounds and the subsequent murderbone that follows.
Lowpop heretic fucking sucks, I say this as someone who has been on the giving and receiving end of a lowpop heretic ascension. Frankly: it isn't fun. I don't know anyone who enjoys having this happen multiple rounds in a row. Plus, I'm sure we all know how people feel about murderbone (in general).
I believe that heretic should have a population requirement of at least 25-30 to remedy this issue.
it's current population requirement of zero means that lowpop rounds are flooded with constant heretic rounds and the subsequent murderbone that follows.
Lowpop heretic fucking sucks, I say this as someone who has been on the giving and receiving end of a lowpop heretic ascension. Frankly: it isn't fun. I don't know anyone who enjoys having this happen multiple rounds in a row. Plus, I'm sure we all know how people feel about murderbone (in general).
I believe that heretic should have a population requirement of at least 25-30 to remedy this issue.
- wesoda25
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
Yes yes agree
- MortoSasye
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
wesoda25 wrote:Yes yes agree
- Misdoubtful
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
this seems unreasonable to me
technokek wrote:Cannot prove this so just belive me if when say this
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- NecromancerAnne
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
We let wizard through, and heretics are just shittier wizards with even more one dimensional mechanics.
- Farquaar
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
I fail to see how a heretic is really any different from your average tot on lowpop.
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- Byond Username: Tlaltecuhtli
Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
traitor has more freedom of choice as he spawns with all the tc, he can even wait for more pop to come before buying anything or choose less lethal tools to do general mischief or even just use them to enchant his job
heretic unlock is a ladder so u either sac half the station to get new things or just ignore the fact you are heretic, funny items like trollface mask and noclip pots cant be got with just floor anomalies and in general doesnt have 5 years worth of tweakening and content like traitor to play with, ur just murderman with mini wiz spells
heretic unlock is a ladder so u either sac half the station to get new things or just ignore the fact you are heretic, funny items like trollface mask and noclip pots cant be got with just floor anomalies and in general doesnt have 5 years worth of tweakening and content like traitor to play with, ur just murderman with mini wiz spells
- SuperNovaa41
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
the majour difference being that heretics spawn almost every round, as opposed to the fairly rare midround wizard spawnNecromancerAnne wrote:We let wizard through, and heretics are just shittier wizards with even more one dimensional mechanics.
- SuperNovaa41
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
traitors have freedom of gimmicks or to follow their objectives, meanwhile heretic is build around murdering everyoneFarquaar wrote:I fail to see how a heretic is really any different from your average tot on lowpop.
- Indie-ana Jones
- Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:15 pm
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
I still don't like heretics, something just feels off about their gameplay to me honestly. I understand the whole low to no power and then you gain it over time thing, but on the other hand there's just a lot of factors that can cuck a heretic comparatively to a tot, like if its Icebox and your target falls into the plasma ravine and things like that. Also, the one that I argue is the best designed for a game like this (flesh, since you get to make victims into summons to keep them playing) gets cucked the hardest, feels bad man.
Also, unlike tots, heretics don't get compensated in any very for having an actual job. Assistant makes heretic a lot easier to pull off (maint access is a massive boon for heretic and you being anywhere isn't that suspicious) whereas a heretic with a job can't really abuse job content unless its roundstart since they need to be hunting down victims. I guess it makes hunting down members of your own department easier, but that's pretty minor.
As for locking them behind a pop gap, sure I guess? It does serve to add variety to lowpop rounds but I wouldn't say its good for that in particular. Some of the lighter midrounds (revenant, abductors, etc...) might service that better.
Also, unlike tots, heretics don't get compensated in any very for having an actual job. Assistant makes heretic a lot easier to pull off (maint access is a massive boon for heretic and you being anywhere isn't that suspicious) whereas a heretic with a job can't really abuse job content unless its roundstart since they need to be hunting down victims. I guess it makes hunting down members of your own department easier, but that's pretty minor.
As for locking them behind a pop gap, sure I guess? It does serve to add variety to lowpop rounds but I wouldn't say its good for that in particular. Some of the lighter midrounds (revenant, abductors, etc...) might service that better.
- wesoda25
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:32 pm
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
I’m uncertain what anne meant by that but,SuperNovaa41 wrote:the majour difference being that heretics spawn almost every round, as opposed to the fairly rare midround wizard spawnNecromancerAnne wrote:We let wizard through, and heretics are just shittier wizards with even more one dimensional mechanics.
A couple months ago I made wizards much more rare for lowpop (see: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/56869). At the time mothblocks was given leave to tweak dynamic as they saw fit, so I got to bypass the bureaucracy and just make a PR. I’m not sure if this is still the case but you might want to ask them, I seem to remember a discussion on heretics then too.
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
i was tricking this is very reasonablecacogen wrote:this seems unreasonable to me
technokek wrote:Cannot prove this so just belive me if when say this
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
I think I'd like something like this put in place, sure.
- dragomagol
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
Most definitely
- Mothblocks
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
That permission of mine hasn't been revoked yet, but I have no real strong opinion about this (I don't particularly like heretics in general) and would rather leave it up to head admins to make the decision. If a decision is made, then we can have a PR for it so that the codebase values and production values are consistent. (Head admins aren't required to do this, Dynamic is 100% configurable, it's just nice to keep them matched)wesoda25 wrote: At the time mothblocks was given leave to tweak dynamic as they saw fit, so I got to bypass the bureaucracy and just make a PR. I’m not sure if this is still the case but you might want to ask them, I seem to remember a discussion on heretics then too.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
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Re: Make Heretic have a higher pop cap.
Just gonna say that heretics seem to naturally encourage killing off lowpop, as I had yet another experience that involved a void heretic ascending at ~7pop, which involved teleporting on top of people and stunning them, and then the global mute to finish picking off everyone else. I'm not enjoying this.
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