Secret Gateways - How do we set them up?
- Fikou
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:38 am
- Byond Username: Fikou
- Github Username: Fikou
- Location: Dreamland
Secret Gateways - How do we set them up?
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/61719 has been merged. This means we can have secret content gateways!
So, there needs to be a system for getting them in and out, if we decide that we do want those gateways in the game and enable them in the config.
How do we do this? Someone needs to be responsible for putting the maps in/out of config, which needs a key holder, we need a way to contact the original creator for any updates.
We could use the architecture used for the Admin Application subforum to create threads for gateway maps, viewable only by people posting and the people responsible for updating the maps (maptainers? some volunteer? me? (haha just kidding... unless?))
If forums are seen as too "slow" it could also be discord threads viewably only by those people updating maps?
So, there needs to be a system for getting them in and out, if we decide that we do want those gateways in the game and enable them in the config.
How do we do this? Someone needs to be responsible for putting the maps in/out of config, which needs a key holder, we need a way to contact the original creator for any updates.
We could use the architecture used for the Admin Application subforum to create threads for gateway maps, viewable only by people posting and the people responsible for updating the maps (maptainers? some volunteer? me? (haha just kidding... unless?))
If forums are seen as too "slow" it could also be discord threads viewably only by those people updating maps?
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Spoiler:
- Mothblocks
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Re: Secret Gateways - How do we set them up?
In my vision, we would be giving the maptainer team a lot of control over this. While they might not have direct access to the box, having them submit maps informally to head admins, or if maptainers gain authority over it, to any key holder, is workable. Inept is unfortunately out of commission right now, so I can't get their thoughts on this.
I don't think we need a subforum or anything, I think just informally working with maptainers is probably the best way to start. The throughput is likely so low that people can be talked to on an individual level.
I don't think we need a subforum or anything, I think just informally working with maptainers is probably the best way to start. The throughput is likely so low that people can be talked to on an individual level.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
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- Misdoubtful
- In-Game Game Master
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Re: Secret Gateways - How do we set them up?
I could see this becoming a tool for also working with event runners and planning out their things that would turn the magic gamer land of gateways on its head. Haven't put any actual thought into that though.
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Re: Secret Gateways - How do we set them up?
Will these Secret Gateways be available by any means to non-mappers/admins? I know for a fact that at least one codebase would like access to Gateway content for use in ruins, and this change sounds as though it will make it much harder to adapt such. I'm all for the change if it will enable Gateways on other servers than Basil (Manuel Gateway missions, please?), but I think it's a good question to ask.
Native Manuellian and Shiptest admin. Ignore me.
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Also the author of several drone adventures.
- Mothblocks
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Re: Secret Gateways - How do we set them up?
The whole point of secret gateways is the map files are not public. Other codebases can have their own secret gateways, it's all config.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
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- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:49 pm
- Byond Username: Maurukas
Re: Secret Gateways - How do we set them up?
This sparked quite a discussion in mapping general.
There was a consensus that having maps outside of version control is bad. Having some random folder that files and configs are dumped in is not ideal from a maintenance standpoint, not to mention the keyholder and access related problems. The org on github does not seem to allow private repos - though I can't tell if that's because of org policy or because of github. I think the former.
So here's how this is working in my head. We create a small, private repo, either on github, or using something like Gitea on the tgstation infrastructure. This would be like the map depot, it would not contain the full tg code, just the map files. We limit access to that repo to the maptainers (+ possible QA) and keyholders/headmins. This repo will be used to hold the secret maps. We modify TGS so that on update it checks this repo and grabs the latest *.dmm files from it and copies them to the relevant folder on the server.
The config file will be managed by the keyholders/headmins just like current config files are. They can enable/disable secret maps at their discretion.
I do not have a good way for contributors to submit their requests. Manually sending dmm files works, but I'd prefer something with git. I am open to suggestions here, though I do like Fikou's idea of using an admin-application style forum. If we were to host our own git instance, we could give secret contributors a repo on it to push their maps to. I do not know how granular permissions are on github (not very I've heard).
At the end of all this: mso and other server people have to do a bunch of work to hook this all up, contributors submit maps for inclusion in the repo, the maptainers are responsible for making a repo of maps available to the server, and the administration decides what runs and when (via config, rotation, manual loading etc). This mirrors what we do with the main codebase, and isolates the ugly business of messing with files on the servers.
There was a consensus that having maps outside of version control is bad. Having some random folder that files and configs are dumped in is not ideal from a maintenance standpoint, not to mention the keyholder and access related problems. The org on github does not seem to allow private repos - though I can't tell if that's because of org policy or because of github. I think the former.
So here's how this is working in my head. We create a small, private repo, either on github, or using something like Gitea on the tgstation infrastructure. This would be like the map depot, it would not contain the full tg code, just the map files. We limit access to that repo to the maptainers (+ possible QA) and keyholders/headmins. This repo will be used to hold the secret maps. We modify TGS so that on update it checks this repo and grabs the latest *.dmm files from it and copies them to the relevant folder on the server.
The config file will be managed by the keyholders/headmins just like current config files are. They can enable/disable secret maps at their discretion.
I do not have a good way for contributors to submit their requests. Manually sending dmm files works, but I'd prefer something with git. I am open to suggestions here, though I do like Fikou's idea of using an admin-application style forum. If we were to host our own git instance, we could give secret contributors a repo on it to push their maps to. I do not know how granular permissions are on github (not very I've heard).
At the end of all this: mso and other server people have to do a bunch of work to hook this all up, contributors submit maps for inclusion in the repo, the maptainers are responsible for making a repo of maps available to the server, and the administration decides what runs and when (via config, rotation, manual loading etc). This mirrors what we do with the main codebase, and isolates the ugly business of messing with files on the servers.
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: Secret Gateways - How do we set them up?
I assumed Secret Gateways were for one-off special missions uploaded as events, not a persistent pool of secrecy-gated content. If its a large repo of stuff thats available online and will be played over and over then doesnt that kinda loosen the point, since after an appearance or two people will know where all the crap is? Or am I misunderstanding again.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
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- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:49 pm
- Byond Username: Maurukas
Re: Secret Gateways - How do we set them up?
There's no capability to upload these maps via in-game verbs. It requires logging into the actual VM that DreamDaemon is running on and dropping the map files in config/away_missions. Since it involves accessing the game server's filesystem, that needs keyholder. That's not to say it couldn't work like this (change maps does), but that would require someone to code the necessary upload verbs and functionality to clean out uploaded maps when the round is done.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:51 pm I assumed Secret Gateways were for one-off special missions uploaded as events, not a persistent pool of secrecy-gated content. If its a large repo of stuff thats available online and will be played over and over then doesnt that kinda loosen the point, since after an appearance or two people will know where all the crap is? Or am I misunderstanding again.
That's not to say the system I'm proposing can't be used for one off event maps, it could certainly have an 'inactive' folder that maps are moved to after being run. One of the main purposes of having a repo here is to mediate access to this folder. There's no requirement that secret maps have any longevity, but there was discussion in mapping general over what I'll call 'seasonal content' - to make up a map or set of maps that is run for a couple weeks or months to allow the playerbase to explore it, which is then rotated out for something new. This is something I'd like to support alongside the one off event maps.
Last edited by Vire on Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
- Byond Username: Dorsidwarf
- Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Re: Secret Gateways - How do we set them up?
Ah I see. Well, thanks for clearing up my misperceptions on these.Vire wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:57 pmThere's no capability to upload these maps via in-game verbs. It requires logging into the actual VM that DreamDaemon is running and dropping the map files in config/away_missions. Since it involves accessing the game server's filesystem, that needs keyholder. That's not to say it couldn't work like this (change maps does), but that would require someone to code the necessary upload verbs and functionality to clean out uploaded maps when the round is done.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:51 pm I assumed Secret Gateways were for one-off special missions uploaded as events, not a persistent pool of secrecy-gated content. If its a large repo of stuff thats available online and will be played over and over then doesnt that kinda loosen the point, since after an appearance or two people will know where all the crap is? Or am I misunderstanding again.
That's not to say the system I'm proposing can't be used for one off event maps, it could certainly have an 'inactive' folder that maps are moved to after being run. One of the main purposes of having a repo here is to mediate access to this folder. There's no requirement that secret maps have any longevity, but there was discussion in mapping general over what I'll call 'seasonal content' - to make up a map or set of maps that is run for a couple weeks or months to allow the playerbase to explore it, which is then rotated out for something new. This is something I'd like to support alongside the one off event maps.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
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- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:49 pm
- Byond Username: Maurukas
Re: Secret Gateways - How do we set them up?
Actually, I misunderstood Fikou's response to my question on the PR. You can upload an away mission as you would currently it will load it, and will make correct use of the secret flags, and be cleared at the end of the round. They will not be added to the config or persist when uploaded in this manner.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:00 pm
Ah I see. Well, thanks for clearing up my misperceptions on these.
- dragomagol
- Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:04 pm
- Byond Username: Dragomagol
Re: Secret Gateways - How do we set them up?
We will be moving forward with this idea of a repo for the specific purpose of adding and maintaining secret gateways. We will be collaborating with Fikou and maptainers to iron out this system and get it running.
Headmin Votes:
Dragomagol: Yes
NamelessFairy: Yes
RaveRadbury: Yes
Headmin Votes:
Dragomagol: Yes
NamelessFairy: Yes
RaveRadbury: Yes
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