10+ minute brig sentences

[Fikou]

from the security policy part of the rules
"For arrested players, timed sentences up to a total of 10 minutes, buckle-cuffing, and stripping, are considered IC issues and are not actionable by admins. Brig sentences totaling more than 10 minutes can be adminhelped"
i think that this isnt clear in who it applies to, is it only security? is it all crew? all players? does it apply to people you can validly kill?
and also, is it always actionable if it happens or only sometimes?

[iamgoofball]

i believe the spirit of the rule is to block unjust briggings for 30 minutes because 30 minutes in the AFK box sucks absolute ass

[Archie700]

from the security policy part of the rules
"For arrested players, timed sentences up to a total of 10 minutes, buckle-cuffing, and stripping, are considered IC issues and are not actionable by admins. Brig sentences totaling more than 10 minutes can be adminhelped"
i think that this isnt clear in who it applies to, is it only security? is it all crew? all players? does it apply to people you can validly kill?
and also, is it always actionable if it happens or only sometimes?

Can be adminhelped =/= actionable.
Admins would still have to investigate if the long brigging is unjustified for it to be considered actionable. (basically the incident leading up to the brigging)
The rule is on whoever decides the time for brigging.

[Cobby]

it applies to arrested players as the rule would imply (bar maybe rule 4).

It's there to protect security from getting into a ahelp match literally everytime they make arrests, with that in mind the rule tells them that protection is gone >10 minutes so they should expect ahelps (not necessarily because theyre in the wrong) after this point.

The answer is only sometimes because some people deserve 10+ minute timeout for being a shit.

[Timberpoes]

Like all things in life it really depends on context.

Sentences under 10 minutes are just IC. You don't want security being shit scared of being bwoinked every time they arrest someone for any actual or perceived incident.

Sentences over 10 minutes/perma sentences are just when an arbitrary line is drawn and the sentence is capable of being ahelped because it may be (or be approaching) a rule break.

Why can it not be codified into a hard and fast rule? For every scenario you can imagine, our players can play out two completely different scenarios that invoke the spirit and letter of the ruling differently.

When and where it applies? My approach is that if a player is acting as security, they'll be held to the standards of security.

Why? Why should we hold security to some higher standard if they could do the same job with none of the policy and restrictions by signing up as assistant or paramedic or geneticist? Makes no sense.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I think it's a very important distinction between "can be adminhelped" and "is simply not allowed". One that is very context dependent. If someone's doing a 15 minute over something as minor as stealing a water tank from botany? That's an issue. If someone's doing a 15 minute because they need the person to be held until the Captain or HoS can authorize execution, or they caused enough/major issues warranting it? It should be allowed.

But as was mentioned in that appeal thread that inspired this one; What's the difference between slapping him in there with a high timer, and finding a room to bolt them in while he waits for Security? Context has to matter, otherwise you're punishing people for going about the situation *properly*.

[GamerAndYeahMick]

Invalid arrest = not allowed regardless of sentence length
Valid arrest = can be over ten minutes with decent justification
guy stole clowns shoes = shouldn't be in brig for 15 minutes

[Shadowflame909]

Well now I have another question. Does this rule apply to everyone, even antags? Antags infiltrating sec and putting people in the afk box for the entire round seems possible but very unfun.

[Cobby]

I mean you can ahelp it but I’m not going to do anything because they’re an antag assuming LRP (GBJing fnr on Manuel seems unbefitting a la kill policy”

[sinfulbliss]

"For arrested players[...]"

The rule is in sec policy so it applies to security. Other players don't have business brigging people, so if they're not deputized and they brig someone for 10 minutes on a wrongful accusation then that'd probably be actionable is my guess, whereas a sec player's metaprotections would make it an IC issue so long as they were acting with good intentions.

[Pandarsenic]

Yeah. Invalid, I assume, means "obviously groundless or without even the most basic due diligence by a real security member (or someone acting as such)," rather than things that might appear legit to the officer but be based on fucky information (someone gives you the wrong name accidentally, traitor impersonation of an officer/witness/perpetrator, false reports, etc.)

[Stickymayhem]

Well now I have another question. Does this rule apply to everyone, even antags? Antags infiltrating sec and putting people in the afk box for the entire round seems possible but very unfun.

It's not any different to round removal so no. Gulagging half the station is a valid and funny meme as antag.

[dragomagol]

Security standards can be applied to anyone acting as security, not just roundstart security officers.

10+ minute brig sentences are ahelpable, but may not be strictly actionable. However, if you are in a position as a brigging officer where you think a 10+ minute sentence is reasonable, consider alternatives such as using the labour camp or having the arrested party spend their timed sentence in the permabrig.

Headmin Votes:
Dragomagol: Agree
NamelessFairy: Agree
RaveRadbury: Agree