Noted for Wrongthink: Manuelmins Acceleration Continues

[Kendrickorium]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31316

WHEN WILL THEY START BANNING FOR SIMPLY *THINKING* ABOUT DOING SOMETHING THAT GOES AGAINST THE AVATARS OF ROLE PLAYING
WHEN WILL THEY BE STOPPED
WHO WILL STOP THEM

[Kendrickorium]

I just realized a thread was made about this but my title is better so everyone should move over here

[sinfulbliss]

I didn't really follow what the hell he was talking about in the appeal to be honest - did the man really get an admin remark for having a disagreement with an admin? He didn't even get bwoinked or break any rules?

[Super Aggro Crag]

Bad note

[BONERMASTER]

True sigmas post in the cool title namethread. And they demand answers!
If a self defense bomb is a successful deterrent to no-good criminals, then why aren't they allowed to be used?? Imagine how save the world would be if everyone at any time was carrying an explosive that could level an entire building in an instant. Think any criminal would still be messing with people?
What is more important, a bit of collateral or stopping a criminal? I seriously hope you don't have to think about the right answer to that.


With safe regards
-BOOMERMASTER

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I didn't really follow what the hell he was talking about in the appeal to be honest - did the man really get an admin remark for having a disagreement with an admin? He didn't even get bwoinked or break any rules?

To be fair, the thing with Notes is they're mostly supposed to just be a way of saying "I've had this conversation with them", so I'm guessing the admin's intent here was "Well this way if he does something dumb with them or whatever, he can't just claim 'But I was never told not to!'"

[Boot]

What are you even talking about notes aren't used to scarlet letter people at all.

[massa]

I just realized a thread was made about this but my title is better so everyone should move over here

you are the best

this guy seems to be the most explosive mrp player and i think that's a good thing

[Farquaar]

selfDefenceOnMRP.mp3

(197.15 KiB) Downloaded 71 times

[sinfulbliss]

What is more important, a bit of collateral or stopping a criminal? I seriously hope you don't have to think about the right answer to that.

You make a good point BONERMASTER - but should I be noted if I disagree with you on this, only in theory? Probably not!!

To be fair, the thing with Notes is they're mostly supposed to just be a way of saying "I've had this conversation with them", so I'm guessing the admin's intent here was "Well this way if he does something dumb with them or whatever, he can't just claim 'But I was never told not to!'"

No not “to be fair.” It’s insane admin overreach to leave a blemish on someone’s account because of a disagreement they had that did not actually translate into the round but was only theoretical. Notes and remarks are used to keep track of conversations in relation to actual fuckin rule breaks. That way if behavior happens again the admins know what their history around that particular rule break was.

It should not be used to keep track of “problematic opinions” - if these opinions don’t cause actual rulebreaks or linetoeing behavior, then they aren’t problematic and are irrelevant. If they do, then note the behavior not the opinion.

[BONERMASTER]

What is more important, a bit of collateral or stopping a criminal? I seriously hope you don't have to think about the right answer to that.

You make a good point BONERMASTER - but should I be noted if I disagree with you on this, only in theory? Probably not!!

Absolutely yes!! If you disagree with my personal opinion, you should not only be noted, but banned, permanently! There is nothing wrong with self-defense bombs, my personal favourite is the hellfire one, I combine it with a regular tritium explosion to incapacitate the criminal first, and then let the fire take care of whatever is left of them.
Ideally the initial explosion would launch the hellfire chemicals far away, so it would cover a wider radius and reduce the number of escape routes the criminal could take, but alas, the game is lacking in that regard, I hope the coders will address this oversight soon.


With explosive regards
-BOOMERMASTER

[CMDR_Gungnir]

To be fair, the thing with Notes is they're mostly supposed to just be a way of saying "I've had this conversation with them", so I'm guessing the admin's intent here was "Well this way if he does something dumb with them or whatever, he can't just claim 'But I was never told not to!'"

No not “to be fair.” It’s insane admin overreach to leave a blemish on someone’s account because of a disagreement they had that did not actually translate into the round but was only theoretical. Notes and remarks are used to keep track of conversations in relation to actual fuckin rule breaks. That way if behavior happens again the admins know what their history around that particular rule break was.

It should not be used to keep track of “problematic opinions” - if these opinions don’t cause actual rulebreaks or linetoeing behavior, then they aren’t problematic and are irrelevant. If they do, then note the behavior not the opinion.

Consider the following;

Based on the wording of his own appeal, the only reason he didn't use the bomb to blow the Thief to smithereens is because the HoS gulag'd him instead, for having the bomb.

He also says, himself, that he told the admin that he pretty much always used bombs for any situation (Seriously, what ISN'T covered by "station ending threat", "Antag doing crime" and "Self Defense"? Valid Hunting? But we have rules preventing him from doing that, and you could argue that you're defending yourself from the valid).

We're repeatedly told that Notes are primarily a way for an admin to say they've talked to someone about something. Bonus points if this case is a (-) instead of any level of !

And for the final piece of the puzzle, Oklews is a Trialmin.

Put alllllll of that information together, and you have a slightly over zealous, but well-intentioned trialmin who probably just wanted to make sure it was written on record that they were told they shouldn't just resort to bombs for everything, in case they bomb someone they shouldn't.

It's not an ideal note, and it'll probably be overturned by the "unfairly harsh" clause (since it's technically factual, albeit unimportant/irrelevant), but it's not a be all and end all, cataclysmic end of the world thing, it's a trialmin making a mistake along the way.

[Pandarsenic]

All these people in the shitty clickbait peanut thread, shameful

[Valorium]

All these people in the shitty clickbait peanut thread, shameful

Truly

[Blase]

Consider the following;

Based on the wording of his own appeal, the only reason he didn't use the bomb to blow the Thief to smithereens is because the HoS gulag'd him instead, for having the bomb.

He also says, himself, that he told the admin that he pretty much always used bombs for any situation (Seriously, what ISN'T covered by "station ending threat", "Antag doing crime" and "Self Defense"? Valid Hunting? But we have rules preventing him from doing that, and you could argue that you're defending yourself from the valid).

"blow to smithereens" is hyperbole because half of you fucks can't conceive of a bomb that doesn't instantly force a shuttle call. Muffindrake stated in his post that they don't gib, and that they aren't maximum explosion size bombs. Its damn annoying when you ignore his own statements to assume something else. I think you're overestimating how many situations explosives are useful enough to justify damage to the station and perhaps innocents. Bombs aren't something you casually break out as an atmos tech. They're still bombs, and you need to choose correctly when to use them.

[YBS]

selfDefenceOnMRP.mp3

Thanks Farq I'm using this later

[sinfulbliss]

It's not an ideal note, and it'll probably be overturned by the "unfairly harsh" clause (since it's technically factual, albeit unimportant/irrelevant), but it's not a be all and end all, cataclysmic end of the world thing, it's a trialmin making a mistake along the way.

I agree, the note was well-intentioned and good-faith. It was still a mistake. The reason I'm being obstinate to even a partial defense of it is because it'd be very bad if it were made precedent that notes don't need to be about behavior. Imagine ahelping to ask if you're allowed to plasmaflood the shuttle on Manuel, being told "no," and then getting a note which says, "was told plasmaflooding the shuttle isn't allowed." It reads as if the player had a run-in with the rules and did something wrong, when really nothing happened.

I already know lots of people who don't ahelp when they should because they're afraid they'll say something wrong and end up themselves getting punished for ahelping. This would definitely exacerbate that issue.

[Vekter]

It's kind of hard to understand exactly what happened given how wordy he's being, but if this is just straight up a note for discussing the matter with him, I don't think it really needs to exist. At the end of the day, it's just there in case he does blow someone up without having a valid reason, so I don't think it necessarily does any harm, but that's just me.

I do think that using bombs as self-defense is kind of LRP? There's other ways to do so without blowing a hole in the station and "blowing up part of your work place" seems pretty against the spirit of acting like you want to keep your job at the end of the day.

[massa]

It's kind of hard to understand exactly what happened given how wordy he's being, but if this is just straight up a note for discussing the matter with him, I don't think it really needs to exist. At the end of the day, it's just there in case he does blow someone up without having a valid reason, so I don't think it necessarily does any harm, but that's just me.

I do think that using bombs as self-defense is kind of LRP? There's other ways to do so without blowing a hole in the station and "blowing up part of your work place" seems pretty against the spirit of acting like you want to keep your job at the end of the day.

people suicide bomb over stupid shit all the time dude lmao

if someone is suicide bombing they're definitely glad to take their office with them

[Blase]

It's kind of hard to understand exactly what happened given how wordy he's being, but if this is just straight up a note for discussing the matter with him, I don't think it really needs to exist. At the end of the day, it's just there in case he does blow someone up without having a valid reason, so I don't think it necessarily does any harm, but that's just me.

I do think that using bombs as self-defense is kind of LRP? There's other ways to do so without blowing a hole in the station and "blowing up part of your work place" seems pretty against the spirit of acting like you want to keep your job at the end of the day.

Crazier shit happens on Space Station 13 than people damaging the station's floor, besides, why wouldn't you repair a minibomb sized explosion? Point is, the entire second paragraph of your post shows you have never ever used a grenade made by chem, or an assembly bomb made by a scientist. It also conforms to your own personal definition of MRP, which is different from many others.

[Vekter]

It also conforms to your own personal definition of MRP, which is different from many others.

I never said it wasn't my own interpretation of the rules.

[Kendrickorium]

All these people in the shitty clickbait peanut thread, shameful

>shitty

sir this was a top tier clickbait, thank you

[massa]

we need to overthrow the manuelmins

[TheFinalPotato]

Anyone who calls assembly bombs singlecaps deserves to be permabanned

[ArcaneDefence]

Anyone who calls assembly bombs singlecaps deserves to be permabanned

Finally, the right fuckin' opinion here.

[Rohen_Tahir]

Anyone who calls assembly bombs singlecaps deserves to be permabanned

Finally, the right fuckin' opinion here.

I agree.