Re-enable all access maintenance access
- The Wrench
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:06 am
- Byond Username: The Wrench
Re-enable all access maintenance access
seeing as the results of the test are over, I am again asking to make maint areas All-access again via config. It greatly improved my experiences as a player, and I feel as it has been good for the community at large.
Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
- Mothblocks
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
I ran a poll that I need to extract the results from soon.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
- Farquaar
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
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- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
I missed the test run for this? Dang. I'd definitely like to hear what people's experience was like with universal maint access though.
► Show Spoiler
- blackdav123
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:04 pm
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
it was very nice. I was able to pull off a hypnoflash gimmick on kilo I had been wanting to do for a while, and was able to use my newfound maint access to set up in the russian mafia den thanks to it. Antags with maint access have a lot more options on ways to do things and I would like this to stay so that mugging an assistant isnt a requirement anymore
Weston Echard on Sybil
- Pandarsenic
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
It ruled
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- iwishforducks
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
i was legitimately crushed to see all maint access gone. add it back ASAP please
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)
- TheFinalPotato
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
All access maint is cringe please no anything but that
- Mothblocks
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
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- Byond Username: SkeletalElite
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
I personally feel like having all maint acess detracts from the game. Maint should be a creepy dangerous place, it should be suspicious to be seen wandering maint unless you''ve got a good reason to be there (ie. maint right outside your department, paramedic, engi or sec officer.) . When literally everyone has all maint access it detracts from that feeling and even assistants having it is too much. I think we should take away assistant maint access, but I also liked the PR that adjusted maint acccess to that roles had better access to the maint immiediately outside their department, such as medical being able to access med maint doors, even the ones that connect to the main hall.
They're dark dingy tunnels without any furnishing, a load of trash, and exposed wiring/piping, not a slightly more convenient way for you to get between arrivals and medbay.
They're dark dingy tunnels without any furnishing, a load of trash, and exposed wiring/piping, not a slightly more convenient way for you to get between arrivals and medbay.
- CMDR_Gungnir
- Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:11 am
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
I feel like everyone having Maints Access takes a lot out of maintenance for both crew and antags.
I think for Crew, there's benefit to maints being that kinda spooky place you don't really want to go in unless you need to. The radiation storm forcing the crew into the dank, dark tunnels is great.
For Antags, sure you've got ease of entry, too. But who cares? The benefit to them as an antag is the ability to move around the station stealthily, but if every tom dick and harry can just wander maints freely, then what's the difference compared to if you just walked the main hallways?
I think for Crew, there's benefit to maints being that kinda spooky place you don't really want to go in unless you need to. The radiation storm forcing the crew into the dank, dark tunnels is great.
For Antags, sure you've got ease of entry, too. But who cares? The benefit to them as an antag is the ability to move around the station stealthily, but if every tom dick and harry can just wander maints freely, then what's the difference compared to if you just walked the main hallways?
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
I feel like a lot of people posting against free maints access are doing so on the grounds of settings idealism (it should be the dark spoopy place where antags hide) rather than gameplay reality. When antagonists do things in maintenance, they still hide further in maintenance. No heretic is going to set up a rune in the middle of a major maintenance intersection, they're going to find a dark spooky corner of maintenance that has a small room, and set up there. Maybe even hide that with a false wall or something. So, the medical doctor who is taking a shortcut through maintenance to reach arrivals or whatever, still wont see the antagonist's things unless you're really bad at picking a setup location. If the medical doctor is going around checking every tiny room to look for antagonists on purpose, that person is just a validhunter, and frankly, such a person would most likely have gone through the effort of getting maints access at hopline anyway, so, removing maints access from them roundstart achieved what exactly? Forcing them to spend 45-60 seconds at hopline?
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
how do you know so muchTheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:27 am All access maint is cringe please no anything but that
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
getting maint access at the HoP line takes effort, and eats your limited wild card slots unless you want to wallet and double ID for loads of extra access and basically completely removes the number of people who are just casually strolling through maintenance. People should not be choosing to casually stroll through maint as their way to get around. With all maint access, maints may as well just be regular halls.Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:54 am I feel like a lot of people posting against free maints access are doing so on the grounds of settings idealism (it should be the dark spoopy place where antags hide) rather than gameplay reality. When antagonists do things in maintenance, they still hide further in maintenance. No heretic is going to set up a rune in the middle of a major maintenance intersection, they're going to find a dark spooky corner of maintenance that has a small room, and set up there. Maybe even hide that with a false wall or something. So, the medical doctor who is taking a shortcut through maintenance to reach arrivals or whatever, still wont see the antagonist's things unless you're really bad at picking a setup location. If the medical doctor is going around checking every tiny room to look for antagonists on purpose, that person is just a validhunter, and frankly, such a person would most likely have gone through the effort of getting maints access at hopline anyway, so, removing maints access from them roundstart achieved what exactly? Forcing them to spend 45-60 seconds at hopline?
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
By that logic, Lavaland should be completely restricted to just miners. Are you really going to try to tell me that people won't raise an eyebrow just because you have maint access, even if you're, say, a bartender all the way in medbay maint?SkeletalElite wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:48 am it should be suspicious to be seen wandering maint unless you''ve got a good reason to be there (ie. maint right outside your department, paramedic, engi or sec officer.) .
I don't necessarily disagree the stance that maint shouldn't be all access, but all access maint would solve some of the wonkiness with maint accesses in general, and it would mean Kilo's escape pods get used for once.
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
Removing barriers from the game because "Well its easy to bypass it if you really want to get it so it should be roundstart equipment" is the second worst kind of prImitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:54 am I feel like a lot of people posting against free maints access are doing so on the grounds of settings idealism (it should be the dark spoopy place where antags hide) rather than gameplay reality. When antagonists do things in maintenance, they still hide further in maintenance. No heretic is going to set up a rune in the middle of a major maintenance intersection, they're going to find a dark spooky corner of maintenance that has a small room, and set up there. Maybe even hide that with a false wall or something. So, the medical doctor who is taking a shortcut through maintenance to reach arrivals or whatever, still wont see the antagonist's things unless you're really bad at picking a setup location. If the medical doctor is going around checking every tiny room to look for antagonists on purpose, that person is just a validhunter, and frankly, such a person would most likely have gone through the effort of getting maints access at hopline anyway, so, removing maints access from them roundstart achieved what exactly? Forcing them to spend 45-60 seconds at hopline?
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
This has negative outcomes.
The hallways will feel emptier, people will be harder to find and antagonists will no longer have anywhere to hide. Validhunters will be able to roam maint from roundstart looking for sussy shit.
Another example of us promoting negative freedom with no respect to positive freedom. This will interfere with the options of others in favour of individual freedom. How have we not realized this road is having a negative impact?
I have no faith that the right decision will be made here unfortunately.
The hallways will feel emptier, people will be harder to find and antagonists will no longer have anywhere to hide. Validhunters will be able to roam maint from roundstart looking for sussy shit.
Another example of us promoting negative freedom with no respect to positive freedom. This will interfere with the options of others in favour of individual freedom. How have we not realized this road is having a negative impact?
I have no faith that the right decision will be made here unfortunately.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
- MMMiracles
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
doesn't this effectively just make maintenance tunnels a secondary hallway that is just smaller and less lit? really seems like it'll detract from any sense of seclusion wandering maintenance is meant to have when literally everyone will just use it to take shortcuts.
genuinely a bad design choice and i hope this doesn't actually happen.
genuinely a bad design choice and i hope this doesn't actually happen.
Spoiler:
- Itseasytosee2me
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
Maintenance creates an interesting dichotomy between those who have it and those who don't. I would be remiss to have that removed.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
See you later
- wesoda25
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:32 pm
- Byond Username: Wesoda25
Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
In theory and only theory I’d rather less people had maint access than more, so as to preserve and even strengthen the stuff people already talked about (low traffic, good for antags, spooky, etc). I wasn’t there for the test though so take that with a grain of salt.
At the end of the day I don’t think it’s a great idea to remove the already low barrier of entry.
At the end of the day I don’t think it’s a great idea to remove the already low barrier of entry.
- stewydeadmike
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
I only got to play like one round with it, but seems to me that antags have the most to gain from it since being able to move around maint quickly makes evading capture a hell of a lot easier. Though I also imagine that this would make hiding any kind of hideout larger than a broom closet exponentially harder than it already is.
That said though I agree with the idea that making maintenance a more restricted area that's inhabited largely by antags and the odd engi/sec officer is probably the more interesting choice in the long run.
That said though I agree with the idea that making maintenance a more restricted area that's inhabited largely by antags and the odd engi/sec officer is probably the more interesting choice in the long run.
- Capsandi
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
Maintenance is just a dark hallway with no chance of plasmaflooding(unless your playing on delta, then its just a hallway) without access requirements, so removing them sucks
Spoiler:
But assistants and security should have their maintenance access stripped. The only jobs with full maintenance access should be station engineer, CE & captain
Lower your tone with me if your tracked play time doesn't look like this:Timonk wrote:You have clearly never seen his dickWesoda25 wrote:Genuinely think they should be blacklisted.
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- blackdav123
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:04 pm
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
Validhunters already play sec or assistant to do this, nothing is changed by giving the people with jobs access to maint. Doctors are not suddenly surging into maint because they now have access.Stickymayhem wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:34 pm The hallways will feel emptier, people will be harder to find and antagonists will no longer have anywhere to hide. Validhunters will be able to roam maint from roundstart looking for sussy shit.
The difference is that in maint it will take significantly longer for help to arrive when you slip on a carefully placed banana peel and a traitor starts impaling you. There isnt 6 people within earshot to save you when the esword starts chopping you into bits. People will still take the risk for the shortcut as they always have, but story wise this is a benefit as it gives our antagonists another opportunity to do their evil deeds without being converged on by every crewmember in the area.CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:58 am For Antags, sure you've got ease of entry, too. But who cares? The benefit to them as an antag is the ability to move around the station stealthily, but if every tom dick and harry can just wander maints freely, then what's the difference compared to if you just walked the main hallways?
Weston Echard on Sybil
- legality
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
We had nearly every job having maintenance access for years in the early days and it was always scary and dangerous. Passing by someone in the 1-tile maintenance hallway always made your heart rate go up a little bit. I feel like the worries of most people against this are overblown. One way in which it isn't, I think, is that our early maps made a point to make maintenance sprawling and inefficient, with lots of maintenance islands and such that weren't connected to the overall network and thus got low traffic.
- Rohen_Tahir
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
[citation needed]blackdav123 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:44 pm Doctors are not suddenly surging into maint because they now have access.
- zxaber
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
Oh, I missed the poll. Unfortunate.
I dislike crew-wise maint access. Feels weird to even have a maint if everyone can use it with no restriction; Why not just do away with it entirely and create alleyway hallways?
Assistants should only have dorms maint access.
I dislike crew-wise maint access. Feels weird to even have a maint if everyone can use it with no restriction; Why not just do away with it entirely and create alleyway hallways?
Assistants should only have dorms maint access.
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
Yeah, but that was because being forced to be near someone back then was terrifying. Anyone could have a stunprod or worse in their bag, almost every antag had an instant-gameover melee option (Parapen, Parasting, to name the most feared), and combats were usually decided by who got the alpha strike. Being in a 1-wide made it super easy to get hit (turn on Harm so the enemy cant rush past you and they're pinned to a single place on your screen as you run into them, guaranteeing a hit). Plus, dying meant sitting out salting in deadchat for 20-40 minutes if you got corpse-destroyed, and there wasnt a huge web of buddy discords and five other servers for you, just a few IRC channels and the forums (And depending on time the other server, which was usually 10 people building autism forts.legality wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:00 pm We had nearly every job having maintenance access for years in the early days and it was always scary and dangerous. Passing by someone in the 1-tile maintenance hallway always made your heart rate go up a little bit. I feel like the worries of most people against this are overblown. One way in which it isn't, I think, is that our early maps made a point to make maintenance sprawling and inefficient, with lots of maintenance islands and such that weren't connected to the overall network and thus got low traffic.
The situation of the game has changed a lot since then, and basing balancing assumptions purely off "Well it worked in the old days" is just no longer good enough - you have to consider *why* it worked in the old days. (Also if anything maint is MORE tangly and full of hidden rooms and pointless sections now imo, box used to be really bad for being straight empty lines directly connecting places)
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- Pandarsenic
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
Yeah, running into someone in maint? Better hope they don't have an ebow, because that thing is a 1-tap stun into an instant esword.
Parasting, slips, stun gloves, etc., even tasers were all long, easily-performed hardstuns that had little counterplay in maintenance. Pulling bodies (cuffed or not, standing or lying down) didn't slow you and they weren't a hardstun projectile, so you could drag them behind as you slashed them and ditch them when you needed another, or even cable/cuff someone to use as a human shield.
If maintenance is no longer scary, it's not how many people are in it. It's how hard it is to kill someone.
Parasting, slips, stun gloves, etc., even tasers were all long, easily-performed hardstuns that had little counterplay in maintenance. Pulling bodies (cuffed or not, standing or lying down) didn't slow you and they weren't a hardstun projectile, so you could drag them behind as you slashed them and ditch them when you needed another, or even cable/cuff someone to use as a human shield.
If maintenance is no longer scary, it's not how many people are in it. It's how hard it is to kill someone.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- NecromancerAnne
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
I will bore holes through the walls and nobody can stop me. You can't find all my tunnels.
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
lot of assistant mains malding that their escape route is being open to everyone
- sinfulbliss
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
If this goes through, the "enable emergency maintenance" option on the command console, and when it happens by default before radstorms, will probably be sort of defunct.
That's like the only downside I can think of? It might make antagging/culting slightly harder since more people will be in maint. Also, people already use maints as shortcuts when they have access anyway. It isn't a design issue, it's a QoL issue. If the map's design is undermined from its maintenance tunnels then that's a problem with the map.
That's like the only downside I can think of? It might make antagging/culting slightly harder since more people will be in maint. Also, people already use maints as shortcuts when they have access anyway. It isn't a design issue, it's a QoL issue. If the map's design is undermined from its maintenance tunnels then that's a problem with the map.
Spoiler:
- Mothblocks
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
That's not the same, since emergency maint access let's you use *any* door in maintenance. You can go to the CMO's office without access through the maint door only when emergency maint is on, for instance.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
- sinfulbliss
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
I realized this in the back of my mind and said it anyway. I was hoping no one would mention that..Mothblocks wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:55 pm That's not the same, since emergency maint access let's you use *any* door in maintenance. You can go to the CMO's office without access through the maint door only when emergency maint is on, for instance.
Spoiler:
- terranaut
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:43 pm
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
It's not a QoL issue. Getting maint access is a hurdle not everybody bothers with and some HoPs might even deny you access if they think you shouldn't have it. It adds more people to maint, which makes antagging unseen harder. I don't really care one way or another but anybody who walks into maint and gets killed by an antag simply because they were in a place they shouldn't have been and then dares cry about murderboning should be punted into the sun.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:28 pm If this goes through, the "enable emergency maintenance" option on the command console, and when it happens by default before radstorms, will probably be sort of defunct.
That's like the only downside I can think of? It might make antagging/culting slightly harder since more people will be in maint. Also, people already use maints as shortcuts when they have access anyway. It isn't a design issue, it's a QoL issue. If the map's design is undermined from its maintenance tunnels then that's a problem with the map.
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
Yeah, but it does make it defunct from a "Anyone has any legitimate reason to activate it" perspective, whereas before it was important to hit the button whenever a radstorm happened (But people could sneak into places after the storm but before command made it back to the bridge and turned the access back on), now only reason to want it is to doortide into restricted areas so it wont be used much, right?Mothblocks wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:55 pm That's not the same, since emergency maint access let's you use *any* door in maintenance. You can go to the CMO's office without access through the maint door only when emergency maint is on, for instance.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- Mothblocks
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
Ya, this makes a lot more sense to meNot-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:42 pmYeah, but it does make it defunct from a "Anyone has any legitimate reason to activate it" perspective, whereas before it was important to hit the button whenever a radstorm happened (But people could sneak into places after the storm but before command made it back to the bridge and turned the access back on), now only reason to want it is to doortide into restricted areas so it wont be used much, right?Mothblocks wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:55 pm That's not the same, since emergency maint access let's you use *any* door in maintenance. You can go to the CMO's office without access through the maint door only when emergency maint is on, for instance.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
I enjoyed this change alot when it was implemented. I found myself playing jobs other then assistant alot more, which is not something i usually do, and i also found that i had more freedom to do things as antagonist.
- Mothblocks
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
That reminds me that I did want to see if the pickrate of assistant was affected by this, but my gut hypothesis is not measurably, since it's mostly just a nice touch
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
I think I'll spill my two cents in on the future of maintenance as far as access is concerned on the codebase/mapping end (or what the other maptainers and I have already asked for):
The way I envision maintenance to be would involve persons being able to access their "quadrant" of maintenance. For example, like on MetaStation, where Science, Service, and Engineering all share that little pocket of maintenance? Anyone who would normally have access to those departments will have unrestricted access to that "quadrant" of the station's maintenance (IF THEY DO NOT ALREADY HAVE MAINTENANCE ACCESS). Anyone who has the "Maintenance" access on their card can access the entire station's worth of maintenance, no limits. However, if you're a scientist, you can access your own section of maintenance as well as the doors that go out of the primary hallways (more on this later).
For an example, let's forget that we currently have the config that allows everyone to have maintenance access, a scientist in current mapping already has access to the doors that lead into and out of their department, but they do not have maintenance access. They do not have access to the doors within that section of maintenance, just the doors that they "possess" within their department. This change would allow them access to the maintenance tunnels that border their department, but not all maintenance tunnels. This sort of makes the config "matter" in some way, where you or headmins of future terms will probably have to choose between letting people have access to just those "bordering" tunnels, or unfettered access to the whole station. Irregardless, anyone with Maintenance access (like Assistants) still maintain that unfettered access though.
A lot of these decisions were influenced by my personal experience with this current config run and seeing it play out as both a player and an admin, and I think it's a step in the right direction (as far as the codebase is concerned). Might also be worth readjusting for, but this is going to be a massive project on the behalf of the mapper (who I am extremely grateful for) going through and accommodating every map to fit this schema. Things are still rather WiP, but that's the future we've signed off on.
P.S.: We're also probably going to have unrestricted access for people wishing to exit maintenance tunnels into primary hallways. Hopefully that can help with some frustrations with getting "trapped" in maintenance until someone discovers you and helps you get out.
P.S.S.: I also don't know if my way of describing it above was confusing, feel free to reach out for clarification... I think it'll be more intuitive and will make the most sense when it's actually implemented.
The way I envision maintenance to be would involve persons being able to access their "quadrant" of maintenance. For example, like on MetaStation, where Science, Service, and Engineering all share that little pocket of maintenance? Anyone who would normally have access to those departments will have unrestricted access to that "quadrant" of the station's maintenance (IF THEY DO NOT ALREADY HAVE MAINTENANCE ACCESS). Anyone who has the "Maintenance" access on their card can access the entire station's worth of maintenance, no limits. However, if you're a scientist, you can access your own section of maintenance as well as the doors that go out of the primary hallways (more on this later).
For an example, let's forget that we currently have the config that allows everyone to have maintenance access, a scientist in current mapping already has access to the doors that lead into and out of their department, but they do not have maintenance access. They do not have access to the doors within that section of maintenance, just the doors that they "possess" within their department. This change would allow them access to the maintenance tunnels that border their department, but not all maintenance tunnels. This sort of makes the config "matter" in some way, where you or headmins of future terms will probably have to choose between letting people have access to just those "bordering" tunnels, or unfettered access to the whole station. Irregardless, anyone with Maintenance access (like Assistants) still maintain that unfettered access though.
A lot of these decisions were influenced by my personal experience with this current config run and seeing it play out as both a player and an admin, and I think it's a step in the right direction (as far as the codebase is concerned). Might also be worth readjusting for, but this is going to be a massive project on the behalf of the mapper (who I am extremely grateful for) going through and accommodating every map to fit this schema. Things are still rather WiP, but that's the future we've signed off on.
P.S.: We're also probably going to have unrestricted access for people wishing to exit maintenance tunnels into primary hallways. Hopefully that can help with some frustrations with getting "trapped" in maintenance until someone discovers you and helps you get out.
P.S.S.: I also don't know if my way of describing it above was confusing, feel free to reach out for clarification... I think it'll be more intuitive and will make the most sense when it's actually implemented.
Simultaneously making both the best and worst jokes on the internet. I like looking at maps and code. Learn how to map today!. You may rate me here.
- Mickyan
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
I would rather assistants didn't have maint access in the first place if it was an option but I don't like this either way
Maintenance access drastically opens up the map, it provides protection from being stranded, excellent freedom of movement and places to hide in. As most jobs have maintenance access to their department wings this gives them the turf advantage when they are working within their own department rather than wandering off to hunt antagonists across the entire map. To give everyone full access to maintenance is a step further into homogenizing the capabilities of each job to more easily operate outside of their expected specialization.
Maintenance access drastically opens up the map, it provides protection from being stranded, excellent freedom of movement and places to hide in. As most jobs have maintenance access to their department wings this gives them the turf advantage when they are working within their own department rather than wandering off to hunt antagonists across the entire map. To give everyone full access to maintenance is a step further into homogenizing the capabilities of each job to more easily operate outside of their expected specialization.
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
PR as an example of what San is saying above:
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/66588
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/66588
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
I'm a fan of the kind of access san mentioned in their post, but I still think assistants should lose their maint access. That's a config too isn't it?
- Mothblocks
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
Removing maint access from assistants has already been denied this term, so keep on topic.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
- Tearling
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:40 pm
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
I had more fun with all maint access because it made it easier to play certain jobs on certain maps.
Please bring back all access maintenance access.
Please bring back all access maintenance access.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:41 am From my perspective, players just want to genuinely be listened to. And I don't mean it condescendingly, but to genuinely have their say and for admins to listen, process it and reply. Even if you don't give two shits about what the player is saying, even if you disagree with every part of what they say, players are less likely to leave an ahelp pissed off if you've listened to them and given a reply that directly addresses what they've told you.
- The Wrench
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:06 am
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Re: Re-enable all access maintenance access
With the recent host lead changes, I’m gonna sunset this thread for this headmin term so we can see the effects of restricted maint access.
Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
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