increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
- saprasam
- Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:42 pm
- Byond Username: Saprasam
increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
being a team antagonist at roundstart requires you to have good game knowledge, skill and etc to begin the snowball
the issue with this comes when a new player decides that picking cult is a good idea.
for all intents and purposes, this is a wasted slot & the new player will have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they're thrust with the expectations of a cultist, and either 1. get caught and throw, or 2. do nothing and throw
example: mime with 5 hours gets roundstart cult, other cultist dies (ME. THIS IS ENTIRELY MADEOUT OF PURE GAMER RAGE. GRAHHHHHHHHHH) due to bad luck and the mime is left to carry the entire cult when he has no idea what he's doing, it takes him 30 minutes just to understand how to use spirit realm.
i have no problems with new players getting CONVERTED, as they aren't expected to carry as much as the roundstart cult and by now the snowball should have begun, but roundstart antags require more skill & knowledge then a new player can ever hope to have
the issue with this comes when a new player decides that picking cult is a good idea.
for all intents and purposes, this is a wasted slot & the new player will have no idea what the fuck they're doing when they're thrust with the expectations of a cultist, and either 1. get caught and throw, or 2. do nothing and throw
example: mime with 5 hours gets roundstart cult, other cultist dies (ME. THIS IS ENTIRELY MADEOUT OF PURE GAMER RAGE. GRAHHHHHHHHHH) due to bad luck and the mime is left to carry the entire cult when he has no idea what he's doing, it takes him 30 minutes just to understand how to use spirit realm.
i have no problems with new players getting CONVERTED, as they aren't expected to carry as much as the roundstart cult and by now the snowball should have begun, but roundstart antags require more skill & knowledge then a new player can ever hope to have
- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
- Byond Username: SinfulBliss
- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
Hard disagree for headrev or ops. New players need to start somewhere, you were new once too and probably died instantly as a nukie your first time playing as well. Only way they can learn is by doing really. Headrev is very straightforward, you need very little playtime to know how to click someone with a flash.
For cult it hurts a bit more since cult needs teamwork in order to convert anyone at all, but honestly even here it's hard to justify gatekeeping the role since all they need to do is get dragged around by someone who knows how to play cult and watch things. Getting thrown into an antag role with all these bells and whistles and not having a clue what you're doing is a necessary experience in order to get better at them and also, is actually the reason a lot of new players probably get interested in SS13 and keep playing it. They wanna learn what all those things do.
For cult it hurts a bit more since cult needs teamwork in order to convert anyone at all, but honestly even here it's hard to justify gatekeeping the role since all they need to do is get dragged around by someone who knows how to play cult and watch things. Getting thrown into an antag role with all these bells and whistles and not having a clue what you're doing is a necessary experience in order to get better at them and also, is actually the reason a lot of new players probably get interested in SS13 and keep playing it. They wanna learn what all those things do.
Spoiler:
- blackdav123
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:04 pm
- Byond Username: Blackdav123
Re: increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
agree with sinful anyone's first cult round is going to consist of them standing around like an NPC and the only thing that might ever change that would be a code change simplifying cult
i still fuck up sometimes and absolutely blunder giving away the whole cult and we just work around it
i still fuck up sometimes and absolutely blunder giving away the whole cult and we just work around it
Weston Echard on Sybil
- saprasam
- Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:42 pm
- Byond Username: Saprasam
Re: increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
definitely right on ops & revs as those aren't really hard team antagssinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:30 am Hard disagree for headrev or ops. New players need to start somewhere, you were new once too and probably died instantly as a nukie your first time playing as well. Only way they can learn is by doing really. Headrev is very straightforward, you need very little playtime to know how to click someone with a flash.
For cult it hurts a bit more since cult needs teamwork in order to convert anyone at all, but honestly even here it's hard to justify gatekeeping the role since all they need to do is get dragged around by someone who knows how to play cult and watch things. Getting thrown into an antag role with all these bells and whistles and not having a clue what you're doing is a necessary experience in order to get better at them and also, is actually the reason a lot of new players probably get interested in SS13 and keep playing it. They wanna learn what all those things do.
with cult however having a cult round where a new/inexperienced player gets cult roundstart ends up being a disaster a ton of the time
dont get me wrong it is a necessary learning experience but you need to learn how to play cult through being converted instead of roundstart, as there is significantly more pressure (and WAY less people who are willing to teach you) to be perfect at cult if you're a roundstart cultie
- Misdoubtful
- In-Game Game Master
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Re: increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
I would rather not see team antags locked to people 'good enough to ensure that they will win' in a scenario where game skill would now matter more than roleplay and playing the game itself.
Sometimes you lose, sometimes that will be the story of the round, sometimes that is okay, sometimes it is an opportunity to teach people that don't play roles that can already sometimes be pretty rare for people to get to play.
I REALLY do not like the idea of promoting carrying/snowballing attitudes and behaviors.
If a role is too hard for people to pick up in some sort of intuitive manner, that might just be a code related concern.
MAYBE, MAYBE, just team leader antags could be considered for this sort of proposal as a solution as well.
Sometimes you lose, sometimes that will be the story of the round, sometimes that is okay, sometimes it is an opportunity to teach people that don't play roles that can already sometimes be pretty rare for people to get to play.
I REALLY do not like the idea of promoting carrying/snowballing attitudes and behaviors.
If a role is too hard for people to pick up in some sort of intuitive manner, that might just be a code related concern.
MAYBE, MAYBE, just team leader antags could be considered for this sort of proposal as a solution as well.
Hugs
- Farquaar
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
- Byond Username: Farquaar
- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
I think it's fine. It's good to introduce players to the concept of playing a team antag early on.
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- Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:14 pm
- Byond Username: SkeletalElite
- Github Username: SkeletalElite
Re: increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
I don't think it will help the problem. The only way to learn is to dive into it and give it a go. You could require 100 hours to play cult and people still wouldn't know what to do because they've only ever done it as a convert when the foundations to win have already been laid by others.
- Pandarsenic
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
- Byond Username: Pandarsenic
- Location: AI Upload
Re: increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
Would it be possible to code it so you can only get First Revolutionary/Cultist after a certain number of times being converted?
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- Nabski
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:42 pm
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Re: increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
Add flukies, which is the exact same as nuke ops but everyone has been a nuke op less than three times.
- saprasam
- Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:42 pm
- Byond Username: Saprasam
Re: increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
this is a funny compromise and i’m all for it
probably but i’m unsure of if anybody would like to code itPandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:12 pm Would it be possible to code it so you can only get First Revolutionary/Cultist after a certain number of times being converted?
- Epicgamer545
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:02 am
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Re: increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
I don’t think the time for antag should change. Everyone has their first moments and it’s important to embrace them instead of shoving them away. How would you do it otherwise if you were discouraged?
Also, on another note… Can we perhaps get a separate antag pref for leader nuke ops? One time I got leader with no warning and it was also my third or second time on ops.Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:56 pm MAYBE, MAYBE, just team leader antags could be considered for this sort of proposal as a solution as well.
Epicgamer545
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- bastardblaster
- Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:57 am
- Byond Username: BastardBlaster
- Location: Ionia, Runeterra
Re: increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
incompetent teammates and leaders are part of the fun
- san7890
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:12 pm
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Re: increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
Small pop-in to say that this isn't a configuration that we are currently able to set on the servers, code-side changes would be required (and would have to be okay'd by maintainers).
Simultaneously making both the best and worst jokes on the internet. I like looking at maps and code. Learn how to map today!. You may rate me here.
- Ziiro
- Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:12 pm
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- spookuni
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:05 am
- Byond Username: Spookuni
- Location: The Whiteship
Re: increase the duration of time needed to get roundstart team antags (cult, revs, ops) by a massive amount
We're not interested in raising hour requirements for team antags. Players need to play the antags to learn them, new players messing up with team antags is frankly funny, and we have no desire to treat the ability to achieve a competitive win-condition as the primary decider of whom gets to play what antag.
We would be interested in the implementation of Hug's proposal for a separate timegate for team leaders that pushes for them to have a bit more minimum experience, but that's a code change that is outside of our ability to influence.
Spook: No change
Rave: No change
San: No change
Hugs: No change
We would be interested in the implementation of Hug's proposal for a separate timegate for team leaders that pushes for them to have a bit more minimum experience, but that's a code change that is outside of our ability to influence.
Spook: No change
Rave: No change
San: No change
Hugs: No change
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