Make revs not allowed to kill people without at least a reason

[Kubisopplay]

As the title says. Currently revs have free pass to murderbone anything without the R floating above them, with a weak line of "don't do anything that could inconvenience your team". I propose to change it into the current security post-rev. That means that revs would be free to kill: Heads of Staff, for obvious reasons, security, and anyone mindshielded. Everyone else would be allowed only if they directly threatened the revs.
The change would allow revolutions to involve more people than the current situation of "Be murdering or be dead"
This would also somewhat tie into finally deciding the status after post revs, but that would need to be discussed more.

[serxule]

the problem is that you have no way of knowing if someones mindshielded unless every rev has a pair of sec huds, and if they have sunglasses you have a much harder time with figuring out, this usually leads to revs just murdering non-revs to avoid the effort of figuring out if someones mindshielded or not, maybe all revs can be given the sec-hud that head revs get

[serxule]

although i should add i dont mean revs should be allowed to murderbone anyone who isnt a rev, i just mean in terms of any conflict, it usually ends with the revs choosing murder over making effort

[blackdav123]

Rule 4 could be reworded to say "Team antagonists should act in the best interests of their teams." rather than "Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team".

Currently as it is worded a revolutionary capturing non revs and torturing them is perfectly allowed within rule 4, even if it serves zero benefit to the revolution and is only the rev using their antag status to fuck with people.

[CPTANT]

Rule 4 could be reworded to say "Team antagonists should act in the best interests of their teams." rather than "Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team".

Currently as it is worded a revolutionary capturing non revs and torturing them is perfectly allowed within rule 4, even if it serves zero benefit to the revolution and is only the rev using their antag status to fuck with people.

So? This is fine, you don't have to play to win. In fact we have rules against that.

[Itseasytosee2me]

Disagree. Alot of the fun of rev is the fact that you are essentially an unrestrained crewmate, the only thing that stops you from being quintessential pure antag is not being able to harm your team. The ability to call some random greyshirt a dickhead and stab their eyes out with a screwdriver just for kicks is magic. Your life is cheap and your possibilities are endless.
Do not turn Revs into single minded "kill the heads" playstye. It simply hurts potential for interesting scenarios.

[serxule]

Disagree. Alot of the fun of rev is the fact that you are essentially an unrestrained crewmate, the only thing that stops you from being quintessential pure antag is not being able to harm your team. The ability to call some random greyshirt a dickhead and stab their eyes out with a screwdriver just for kicks is magic. Your life is cheap and your possibilities are endless.
Do not turn Revs into single minded "kill the heads" playstye. It simply hurts potential for interesting scenarios.

yeah i agree with this, a big part of revs is the chaos that can be made from crew on crew conflict, i reckon it should be handled the same as with other antag conflicts: you arent allowed to just run around randomly killing people, but if you get into a conflict with someone (even if it hasnt escalated far, or at all) you are allowed to beat the shit out of them

[Farquaar]

I'm gonna say no to this one. The last thing we want to see is a bunch of revs running around and non-rev crew saying: "Why should I care? I'm not a head of staff." Revs need to be dangerous to anyone- otherwise they're just a few extra blood brothers with assassination objectives.

[Striders13]

You should feel in danger during revolution, not being 100% safe just cause you decide to not help security. Imagine innocent lives getting lost during a violent uprising, imagine that.

[Epicgamer545]

As the title says. Currently revs have free pass to murderbone anything without the R floating above them, with a weak line of "don't do anything that could inconvenience your team". I propose to change it into the current security post-rev. That means that revs would be free to kill: Heads of Staff, for obvious reasons, security, and anyone mindshielded. Everyone else would be allowed only if they directly threatened the revs.
The change would allow revolutions to involve more people than the current situation of "Be murdering or be dead"
This would also somewhat tie into finally deciding the status after post revs, but that would need to be discussed more.

I disagree. The nature of a revolution is supposed to be violence, even on MRP.

[Archie700]

Disagree. Alot of the fun of rev is the fact that you are essentially an unrestrained crewmate, the only thing that stops you from being quintessential pure antag is not being able to harm your team. The ability to call some random greyshirt a dickhead and stab their eyes out with a screwdriver just for kicks is magic. Your life is cheap and your possibilities are endless.
Do not turn Revs into single minded "kill the heads" playstye. It simply hurts potential for interesting scenarios.

It helps that sometimes stabbing the random greyshirt in the eyes is the best move, especially if you secured medbay as a base for later revival and conversion.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I feel that the ideal gameplay paradigm for rev when it goes loud is sec and the revs going at it hammer and tongs and the rest of the crew trying to survive the crossfire without being killed or converted as the revs convert them into cannon fodder and sec mow them down on sight because they cant trust anyone

[DaydreamIQ]

I'm a firm believer that on MRP revs should have their murderbone privileges removed. When you compare it to their cooler, stupidly complex cousin Cult. Cult literally ends the round when they win, so murdering everyone trying to stop you / who's in your way / Doesn't have the funny cult icon around them is justified because its literally the end of the station if they don't fight you. Revs on the other hand...Kills a few people and then everyone goes back to normal because postrevs is a development nightmare apparently. But since revolutionaries are allowed to just murder random bystanders who aren't involved in either side or who were forcibly mindshielded and wanted to stay out of the fighting, it just ends with everyone getting auto deconverted at the end and a bunch of people being dead leaving the round feeling stale. Either make it so revs can only kill people who are actively resisting a conversion attempt / normal antag murder reasons...Or just send in an automatic deathsquad if revs win so the round ends quicker.

[LoveMirror]

Revs have and always will, suck.
The key thing to understand is that it's not a peaceful protest. People will loot, murder, steal and do a whole manner of reprehensible things under the cover of a "revolution".
You should expect this here, as well. You had a conflict with your co-worker and he suddenly joined the rebellion? He's going to lop your head off if he wants to, as it's you vs them at that point.

And I must underline this: I think revs and cult are both horrible gamemodes, but at least it does make you get robust QUICK. If you've not been flashed and you know somebody is going to whack you with a baseball bat because you shoved them into a table, run to security. Even if they don't let you in the brig, you can at least stay in sight of the warden. They might intervene if multiple people are beating you up.

When I see revs, I just bunker up. If no one-flashes me, the first person through the door is getting fireaxed (unless it's a guy in full sec-gear or a head. Those don't actively seek your destruction most of the time).
People are much more willing to be peaceful when you tableslam them, too.

Or make friends with robust people, get lucky when they become revs, and rest assured that you'll be recruited, too. It's a social game.
Not sure how much that falls within metafriending, but cliques will never destroy one of their own unless they absolutely have to (and you literally cannot stop that during revs, they will obviously seek each other out).
I'm not even part of any, but I have gotten spared from a murderbone/execution purely by being approachable and friendly to most people throughout the years.

[oranges]

I strongly disagree with the intent of this thread.

Revolution is designed as a gamemode where you are on one of two teams and they are locked in a deathmatch.

No tweaking around the edges will change what it's designed to be, and that's how conversion modes play out.

I think that the changes to make REV not end the round are a mistake, I think rev being in other roundtypes is also a mistake.

rev is only sensible as a standalone round, that happens non regularly (every 5-6 rounds) as a way to blowoff steam and let out some of the playerbases baser instincts.

I'm strongly oppossed to changes to make it more rules based, I'm still super mad at ninjanomnom and mothblocks for their postrevs changes and mixing it in wtih the regular rounds.

If it continues on it' current trajectory nobody will enjoy it any more and it will be removed.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

I disagree with both the OP and oranges. I'm perfectly happy with the current state of revs. I'm very happy with the state of dynamic as well, and I have no desire to return to possibly 5 minute shifts in static.

Please change nothing, and ignore the OP. If revs are running around murderboning instead of converting, they are merely putting themselves at a disadvantage. Please keep things as they are.

[Tearling]

I disagree with both the OP and oranges. I'm perfectly happy with the current state of revs. I'm very happy with the state of dynamic as well, and I have no desire to return to possibly 5 minute shifts in static.

Please change nothing, and ignore the OP. If revs are running around murderboning instead of converting, they are merely putting themselves at a disadvantage. Please keep things as they are.

I agree with imitates here.

When I hear "CULT" over comms I immediately get bored. When I hear "REVS" over comms I get excited. If I have a gimmick in mind I can just ignore revs because no matter who wins the round will go on. If I have a gimmick in mind during a cult round I have to give up on the gimmick because if cult wins the round is immediately over.

It sucks to get killed by revs instead of getting converted... but... I feel like a change suggested by the OP will just make rev rounds more frustrating as revs have to deal with ahelps and bwoinks, whether or not they're justified.

[NamelessFairy]

To be honest while I'm in general support of this policy change, it will not help the revolutionary gamemode in a notable way. In my opinion the mode is beyond saving in its current form and should probably be disabled until it sees a rework.

I'd also just like to note that on MRP revolutions already do not have a murderbone pass outside of dire situations, this policy thread should only be applicable on LRP since I've seen a few people discuss this changes impact on MRP.

[BeeSting12]

To be honest while I'm in general support of this policy change, it will not help the revolutionary gamemode in a notable way. In my opinion the mode is beyond saving in its current form and should probably be disabled until it sees a rework.

The rework is quite simple. Make revs its own gamemode as it was intended to be played. The game was never intended to go on after the revolutionaries win or the heads kill all the head revs, it's meant to be a high casualty mode for the playerbase to blow off steam.

---

I agree with imitates here.

When I hear "CULT" over comms I immediately get bored. When I hear "REVS" over comms I get excited. If I have a gimmick in mind I can just ignore revs because no matter who wins the round will go on. If I have a gimmick in mind during a cult round I have to give up on the gimmick because if cult wins the round is immediately over.

It sucks to get killed by revs instead of getting converted... but... I feel like a change suggested by the OP will just make rev rounds more frustrating as revs have to deal with ahelps and bwoinks, whether or not they're justified.

to paraphrase: "i would ignore the potentially life threatening events going on in my work place so i can do my job"

thats like the actors on the stage continuing to act when a fire broke out instead of reacting to the fire.

[NamelessFairy]

The rework is quite simple. Make revs its own gamemode as it was intended to be played. The game was never intended to go on after the revolutionaries win or the heads kill all the head revs, it's meant to be a high casualty mode for the playerbase to blow off steam.

While I do agree with this stance somewhat (I still think revs as a whole is a flawed idea in a game like SS13) it is not an option as its currently blocked as a headcoder pronouncement.

[BeeSting12]

The rework is quite simple. Make revs its own gamemode as it was intended to be played. The game was never intended to go on after the revolutionaries win or the heads kill all the head revs, it's meant to be a high casualty mode for the playerbase to blow off steam.

While I do agree with this stance somewhat (I still think revs as a whole is a flawed idea in a game like SS13) it is not an option as its currently blocked as a headcoder pronouncement.

Is dynamic not able to be changed in the config to exclude/include certain modes? And I thought the other round types are still in the code, it's just a matter of adding a chance for that mode to occur in the config files.

[NamelessFairy]

Is dynamic not able to be changed in the config to exclude/include certain modes? And I thought the other round types are still in the code, it's just a matter of adding a chance for that mode to occur in the config files.

Code for non-dynamic was removed nearly 2 years back and afaik nobody has re-added it. https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/58470

[TheFinalPotato]

I strongly disagree with the intent of this thread.

Revolution is designed as a gamemode where you are on one of two teams and they are locked in a deathmatch.

No tweaking around the edges will change what it's designed to be, and that's how conversion modes play out.

I think that the changes to make REV not end the round are a mistake, I think rev being in other roundtypes is also a mistake.

rev is only sensible as a standalone round, that happens non regularly (every 5-6 rounds) as a way to blowoff steam and let out some of the playerbases baser instincts.

I'm strongly oppossed to changes to make it more rules based, I'm still super mad at ninjanomnom and mothblocks for their postrevs changes and mixing it in wtih the regular rounds.

If it continues on it' current trajectory nobody will enjoy it any more and it will be removed.

Rev's POINT is the transition of the round to talking in revs terms. Undermining that by letting people be "bystanders" by policy is stupid.
Even more stupid is people who call it murderbone. The term has drifted in a way that I really don't like. Murderbone is not killing a lot of people, murderbone is killing people with no reason.
There are reasons to kill bystanders in revs. Postrevs is a mess but that does not mean that revs being revs is "murderbone"

[Tearling]

I agree with imitates here.

When I hear "CULT" over comms I immediately get bored. When I hear "REVS" over comms I get excited. If I have a gimmick in mind I can just ignore revs because no matter who wins the round will go on. If I have a gimmick in mind during a cult round I have to give up on the gimmick because if cult wins the round is immediately over.

It sucks to get killed by revs instead of getting converted... but... I feel like a change suggested by the OP will just make rev rounds more frustrating as revs have to deal with ahelps and bwoinks, whether or not they're justified.

to paraphrase: "i would ignore the potentially life threatening events going on in my work place so i can do my job"

thats like the actors on the stage continuing to act when a fire broke out instead of reacting to the fire.

Indeed! Because if it's not revs, it's heretics, if it's not heretics, it's traitors, if it's not traitors... The station is like a stage that is always on fire. At some point the actors just play around or with the fire, not run away from it.

The kind of mental image of actors ignoring a fire to continue their act is based and fun for the game.

[Redrover1760]

This is a LRP thread about restricting antags from acting under Rule 4. Automatic disagree. LRP has always been about antag freedom, lets not fuck that up.

If you are mad that you died instead of getting converted by revs, that is a skill issue. And also a good way to prevent the clowns who try to get themselves "converted" by not fearing the revolution whatsoever. There are also numerous scenarios where its a better option to kill than convert, especially if you take measures to prevent conversion.

As well, enforcing a policy of "you need reason to kill people" will lead to tons of ahelps and stuff and a chilling effect about killing that makes the game less fun and more admins heavy disrupting immersion and, of course, removes freedom from the game, and thus the interesting scenarios that can come from that freedom. Just look at the disaster hugbox that is Manuel. I'd rather die to complete bullshit and assholes a few times on rev rounds than lose the fun interesting things people do, unlike Manuel, which is simply boring as hell.

[LoveMirror]

This is a LRP thread about restricting antags from acting under Rule 4. Automatic disagree. LRP has always been about antag freedom, lets not fuck that up.

If you are mad that you died instead of getting converted by revs, that is a skill issue. And also a good way to prevent the clowns who try to get themselves "converted" by not fearing the revolution whatsoever. There are also numerous scenarios where its a better option to kill than convert, especially if you take measures to prevent conversion.

As well, enforcing a policy of "you need reason to kill people" will lead to tons of ahelps and stuff and a chilling effect about killing that makes the game less fun and more admins heavy disrupting immersion and, of course, removes freedom from the game, and thus the interesting scenarios that can come from that freedom. Just look at the disaster hugbox that is Manuel. I'd rather die to complete bullshit and assholes a few times on rev rounds than lose the fun interesting things people do, unlike Manuel, which is simply boring as hell.

LRP is pure chaos. Manuel is pure order.
There is no middle ground.

Revs are shit and should get nuked.

[HeyHey]

This is a LRP thread about restricting antags from acting under Rule 4. Automatic disagree. LRP has always been about antag freedom, lets not fuck that up.

If you are mad that you died instead of getting converted by revs, that is a skill issue. And also a good way to prevent the clowns who try to get themselves "converted" by not fearing the revolution whatsoever. There are also numerous scenarios where its a better option to kill than convert, especially if you take measures to prevent conversion.

As well, enforcing a policy of "you need reason to kill people" will lead to tons of ahelps and stuff and a chilling effect about killing that makes the game less fun and more admins heavy disrupting immersion and, of course, removes freedom from the game, and thus the interesting scenarios that can come from that freedom. Just look at the disaster hugbox that is Manuel. I'd rather die to complete bullshit and assholes a few times on rev rounds than lose the fun interesting things people do, unlike Manuel, which is simply boring as hell.

LRP is pure chaos. Manuel is pure order.
There is no middle ground.

Revs are shit and should get nuked.

Revs are a good game mode, go hide in mining during rev rounds if you're so bothered by being involved in team antagonism mid round.

[LoveMirror]

Revs are a good game mode, go hide in mining during rev rounds if you're so bothered by being involved in team antagonism mid round.

Bad take. Revs has never been fun for anybody in the history of TG. Kind of hard to get to mining when you get your face caved in as an MD instead of converted.
Cult is revs but actually fun. Revs is just the purge (which most stations devolve into when admins are too busy setting doors to make cat sounds and observing their metafriends).

[CPTANT]

Revs are a good game mode, go hide in mining during rev rounds if you're so bothered by being involved in team antagonism mid round.

Bad take. Revs has never been fun for anybody in the history of TG. Kind of hard to get to mining when you get your face caved in as an MD instead of converted.
Cult is revs but actually fun. Revs is just the purge (which most stations devolve into when admins are too busy setting doors to make cat sounds and observing their metafriends).

I have no idea what you are on, rev is great.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

(which most stations devolve into when admins are too busy setting doors to make cat sounds.

This is a fantastic idea and admins should do this more often.

[Drag]

I think revs would benefit more it it was reverted to being a standalone game mode with it ending after the revs win.

[HeyHey]

I think revs would benefit more it it was reverted to being a standalone game mode with it ending after the revs win.

Moderate disagree. The current dynamic "fix" is to make threat increase on a rev win. Maybe regardless of outcome there should be some kind of escalation event that forces a round end 15-20 minutes after. This could be a nanotransen union busting death squad or some kind of centcom official coming by to force a shift change.

[Agux909]

I think revs would benefit more it it was reverted to being a standalone game mode with it ending after the revs win.

Moderate disagree. The current dynamic "fix" is to make threat increase on a rev win. Maybe regardless of outcome there should be some kind of escalation event that forces a round end 15-20 minutes after. This could be a nanotransen union busting death squad or some kind of centcom official coming by to force a shift change.

I was thinking on something similar to this. Lore wise it would also make sense. Why is the shuttle still available to get back to CC after declaring independence from Nanotrasen? Why would revs even do that, they took the station for themselves to then just leave it after 20 minutes??

A countdown of 10-15 minutes after revs win which automatically ends the round would make more sense, alongside the inability to call the shuttle during this time (if it got called before the win, it gets force-recalled)

This would also give some time for players to try finishing whatever gimmicks or ideas they had in store before they were forced to participate in the revolution.

[LoveMirror]

I think revs would benefit more it it was reverted to being a standalone game mode with it ending after the revs win.

Moderate disagree. The current dynamic "fix" is to make threat increase on a rev win. Maybe regardless of outcome there should be some kind of escalation event that forces a round end 15-20 minutes after. This could be a nanotransen union busting death squad or some kind of centcom official coming by to force a shift change.

I was thinking on something similar to this. Lore wise it would also make sense. Why is the shuttle still available to get back to CC after declaring independence from Nanotrasen? Why would revs even do that, they took the station for themselves to then just leave it after 20 minutes??

A countdown of 10-15 minutes after revs win which automatically ends the round would make more sense, alongside the inability to call the shuttle during this time (if it got called before the win, it gets force-recalled)

This would also give some time for players to try finishing whatever gimmicks or ideas they had in store before they were forced to participate in the revolution.

You expect logic where there is none.
Revs winning should definitely instantly end the shift. We don't need revs + heretic + traitor + traitor shit. It's already bad enough with JUST revs.

[Cobby]

Revs is a TDM gamemode by design, trying to shoehorn it into a non-tdm or kinda-tdm is silly especially when you start considering

1. Nonrevs do not have a rev-hud
2. Revs do not have an implant hud

It is also not murderbone for a rev to kill anyone but their own. Every kill goes towards their objective which is to overthrow the station (or at worse youre a bystander) so even if they were not allowed to kill without justification every kill would still be legal because by nature of the mode they have justification. This is especially true when you have heads who disguise themselves as non-heads.

[DaydreamIQ]

This is an MRP only issue but one thing I find kind of confusing is the whole "Conversion takes priority, but murderbone is fine if you're desperate" clause they have in the rules. For cult I get that, they're a round ending threat that still benefits from killing people since they can make constructs from their bodies. But Revs seem to just get a free pass to kill anyone who either doesn't have the funny R, or that they can't immediately convert due to a mindshield or lack of a headrev even if their target isn't fighting back. Why do revs even have the "only in desperate situations" clause if its never enforced?

[Fatal]

As much as I think this is going to be hard to enforce and implement, some "good faith" rule should be in place for revolutions

I'd personally argue that revs, killing non-revs, who aren't involved at all, is not "TDM" and is infact, hindering your team, people who are just trying to do their job, are easily convertible and an asset you could use, and sure, they might get mindshielded by security, but if the station is 90% revs and most / all of security are dead, is that really going to happen?

We actually had a round yesterday on Terry where a few revs were ignoring the heads of staff or making any attempt to hunt them down (there was one left hiding to be fair) and were just killing unconverted people instead who weren't involved, one of these innocent people was even cremated, and after all this, the revs lost. Revs is near murderbone pass but at least try to win the damn thing, rather than just using it as an excuse to be a dick to people

[kieth4]

As much as I think this is going to be hard to enforce and implement, some "good faith" rule should be in place for revolutions

I'd personally argue that revs, killing non-revs, who aren't involved at all, is not "TDM" and is infact, hindering your team, people who are just trying to do their job, are easily convertible and an asset you could use, and sure, they might get mindshielded by security, but if the station is 90% revs and most / all of security are dead, is that really going to happen?

We actually had a round yesterday on Terry where a few revs were ignoring the heads of staff or making any attempt to hunt them down (there was one left hiding to be fair) and were just killing unconverted people instead who weren't involved, one of these innocent people was even cremated, and after all this, the revs lost. Revs is near murderbone pass but at least try to win the damn thing, rather than just using it as an excuse to be a dick to people

Alright but.... they are trying to win the revolution? If the head is hiding Killing people isn't an excuse to be a dick. They're trying to find the last head as pussy heads will often disguise themselves
as crew.

[Fatal]

Killing a guy, checking their ID, and then cremating them / reviving them and torturing them in medbay is not trying to find the last head

The opposite of this round was yesterday, medbay was all revved up including a rev head, they revived the majority of people that were killed, removed implants where necessary, and converted them to the cause

Sure it's time consuming, and I'm not trying to suggest we hold people to this standard, but just because you CAN be a dick, doesn't mean you HAVE to be a dick, and I think people often forget that during rounds like this, it might be LRP, but if you want to go play a TDM game, go play TGMC and dakka some aliens

[kieth4]

Killing a guy, checking their ID, and then cremating them / reviving them and torturing them in medbay is not trying to find the last head

The opposite of this round was yesterday, medbay was all revved up including a rev head, they revived the majority of people that were killed, removed implants where necessary, and converted them to the cause

Sure it's time consuming, and I'm not trying to suggest we hold people to this standard, but just because you CAN be a dick, doesn't mean you HAVE to be a dick, and I think people often forget that during rounds like this, it might be LRP, but if you want to go play a TDM game, go play TGMC and dakka some aliens

I don't believe that we should have higher standards on revolutionary rounds, I think it would just be goofy to gameplay if you had to be careful. It's already goofy to gameplay if you survive it as a seccie and can't randomly kill people but they sure as hell can just rush up and pull a baton from their bag and instantly annihilate you with no real counterplay.

It's a bloody revolution. You should be free to destroy all obstacles in your way.

[Cobby]

Round removing people in the sense of like permanently deleting their body if you know they are not a head seems pretty icky especially in a world where we know the mechanics of rev and that once you “win” you continue on (so it helps in no way to permanently delete a non-head).

I have no qualms with mowing ppl down but if they’re not a head or staunch loyalist or SOMETHING then going out of your way to delete the body’s does seem like it’s yucky.

[Archie700]

Killing people to find the last head is fine, especially if you don't have a revhead with a flash near to "check".
Killing and cremating bodies without checking as a rev is just being a dick and an unfortunate loophole of rule 4 since you're an antag and not technically harming your team.
Especially so if you already secured medbay which has access to implant removal surgery and defibs.
I honestly think most revolutions don't realize that you can remove implants from security after you killed them and then revive and convert.
(Yes you can in fact convert security if you remove their implants, only command is immune)

[iamgoofball]

Admins couldn't handle this on Families to the point they demanded removal of the gamemode, why do you think they can handle it on Revs?

[kayozz]

This is a LRP thread about restricting antags from acting under Rule 4. Automatic disagree. LRP has always been about antag freedom, lets not fuck that up.

If you are mad that you died instead of getting converted by revs, that is a skill issue. And also a good way to prevent the clowns who try to get themselves "converted" by not fearing the revolution whatsoever. There are also numerous scenarios where its a better option to kill than convert, especially if you take measures to prevent conversion.

As well, enforcing a policy of "you need reason to kill people" will lead to tons of ahelps and stuff and a chilling effect about killing that makes the game less fun and more admins heavy disrupting immersion and, of course, removes freedom from the game, and thus the interesting scenarios that can come from that freedom. Just look at the disaster hugbox that is Manuel. I'd rather die to complete bullshit and assholes a few times on rev rounds than lose the fun interesting things people do, unlike Manuel, which is simply boring as hell.

LRP is pure chaos. Manuel is pure order.
There is no middle ground.

Revs are shit and should get nuked.

Your opinions are bad. Stop trying to remove fun from the game.

[kopoba]

the problem is that you have no way of knowing if someones mindshielded unless every rev has a pair of sec huds, and if they have sunglasses you have a much harder time with figuring out, this usually leads to revs just murdering non-revs to avoid the effort of figuring out if someones mindshielded or not, maybe all revs can be given the sec-hud that head revs get

Yes its because its "paranoia-laden game set against the backdrop of a nonsensical, metal death trap masquerading as a space station, with charming spritework designed to represent the sci-fi setting and its dangerous undertones. Have fun, and survive!"

If you get killed its skill issue. This is not fluffy kitten game where you run around nuzzling each other asses(well sometimes it is ).
Revs is excellent gamemode that don't need anything it survive space and time proving its concept.

[Cobby]

Please don’t quote the wiki as scripture or I’m making it say you’re an idiot.

[kayozz]

Please don’t quote the wiki as scripture or I’m making it say you’re an idiot.

I mean that IS what SS13 is though... or should be... A paranoia laden deathtrap.
Not a furry safespace/hugbox in which nobody dies and everyone gets upset because a revolutionary stabbed you in the mouth.

[Cobby]

You’re right there’s just a better argument to be had than the description of the game on a very easily editable (lol) wiki.

[Epicgamer545]

It doesn’t matter what the wiki says. Your supposed to be paranoid. If TG abandoned the ways of killing I would have left I long time ago.

[kopoba]

Please don’t quote the wiki as scripture or I’m making it say you’re an idiot.

Its not from wiki. Suck it.