Paradox Clone Feedback
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Paradox Clone Feedback
This thread is meant to contain all gameplay-related feedback pertaining to the new Midround Antagonist, The Paradox Clone. This feature is not fully merged yet (as of Dec/27/2022), so please submit any technical bugs/glitches/concerns to the comments of the Github PR found at: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/71141.
Otherwise, any policy concerns, gameplay feedback, or general commentary about how this antagonist performs in-game should be done in this forums thread. Please keep criticism as constructive as possible.
Otherwise, any policy concerns, gameplay feedback, or general commentary about how this antagonist performs in-game should be done in this forums thread. Please keep criticism as constructive as possible.
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- san7890
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
This is currently being test-merged on any server that can appropriately handle it (as in not conflicting with other test merges). As far as policy is concerned, please refer to the MOTD:
I do not believe that editing the cost is useful at this time, as it sits at about "3" threat code-side.
For the sake of collecting as much data as possible during this period, I have edited dynamic.json in order to set the Weight of this event to 8 (originally 4 codeside, this means that it has double the chance of running than what the creator intended):We are actively test-merging a new midround antagonist, The Paradox Clone. If Pull Request (PR) #71141 is on your server, that means you've got it! Please submit any technical difficulties with the test merge in the comments of this PR.
If you're curious on the design behind this antagonist or a good way to play it, check out the HackMD Document.
Any gameplay feedback should be directed to the forum thread. The stats of this rolling have been inflated for the sake of testing. Policy-wise, please approach it similarly to the "Obsessed" antagonist.
Code: Select all
"Midround": {
"Paradox Clone": {
"weight": 8
}
}
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- Mothblocks
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
editing cost p much never has the effect people think it does. just chanigng weight is fine
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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- Hoolny
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
I support this antag I see it as causing plenty of conflict and such during the time the target and the clone are still alive
The part that concern me is the resolution
A. The clone gets killed after the whole sum of events has happened the antag dies as they do everything is fine it had its course and it died
B. The clone kills the other person now.... it isn't much of an antag anymore
If there was something that happened after the original version died it would be give the antag more flavor after the whole interaction is over
Maybe it causes a ripple through reality affecting the station in some way giving more of a reason for the crew to find who the clone is correctly this ripple in reality being something like causing another paradox clone to emerge or to permanently change something in the station that makes it like the parallel universe the clone was in and such
The part that concern me is the resolution
A. The clone gets killed after the whole sum of events has happened the antag dies as they do everything is fine it had its course and it died
B. The clone kills the other person now.... it isn't much of an antag anymore
If there was something that happened after the original version died it would be give the antag more flavor after the whole interaction is over
Maybe it causes a ripple through reality affecting the station in some way giving more of a reason for the crew to find who the clone is correctly this ripple in reality being something like causing another paradox clone to emerge or to permanently change something in the station that makes it like the parallel universe the clone was in and such
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
Okay few things. Mostly on game play, partly on flavor.
1. Clone has just looks like a generic version of the other person's job with nothing to blend in if the original has changed outfit, any items people know about, ect. This is makes it VERY clear who is real (the one with more stuff usually) and who is fake (the one with a set of tools and whatever they thought to take outta maint).
Maybe fix the above by letting the clone have the clothing of the original at the very least maybe the items, implants, genes ect.
2. Clone is given nothing about how the other person acts, talks ect. Hard to blend in when you can't even attempt to mimic the way the other person talks (lings get the speach patters so mabye copy that)(More creative would be letting the clone watch their target for a minute before spawning in to see how they act, talk, behave, ect and know where they are so hi-jinks can ensure faster)
3. Clone does not get heirloom of whoever they copy (might be a bug, but still goes back to point 1 so I will mention it here anyway as a constant negative mood let sucks). Also if the original has a different kinda bag (leather satchel) they will be clearly different than the clone (default job bag)(again back to point one).
4. if the original is off station and/or SSD in a locker somewhere than no conflict will really occur and its kinda boring.
5. Could use some more flavor mechanically. Maybe a small unstable teleport similar to bluespace golems just to give em something that can provide a slight edge and major tell. Even just a mood let saying "I can fix this paradox if i off the other guy" would make it FEEL more like your not just a carbon copy but a paradoxical clone.
6. An evil goatee would be hilarious for clones to have a chance to get even if optional.
TLDR. The clone needs the stuff the original has on when they spawn (clothing at the very least, items, ect), More info on what their target is like so they can blend in better and something to make it more mechanically flavorful than just "im you but slightly evil until you die". Cool idea and but lacking in being flavorful beyond "a same looking alternate you" but needs better execution mechanically.
1. Clone has just looks like a generic version of the other person's job with nothing to blend in if the original has changed outfit, any items people know about, ect. This is makes it VERY clear who is real (the one with more stuff usually) and who is fake (the one with a set of tools and whatever they thought to take outta maint).
Maybe fix the above by letting the clone have the clothing of the original at the very least maybe the items, implants, genes ect.
2. Clone is given nothing about how the other person acts, talks ect. Hard to blend in when you can't even attempt to mimic the way the other person talks (lings get the speach patters so mabye copy that)(More creative would be letting the clone watch their target for a minute before spawning in to see how they act, talk, behave, ect and know where they are so hi-jinks can ensure faster)
3. Clone does not get heirloom of whoever they copy (might be a bug, but still goes back to point 1 so I will mention it here anyway as a constant negative mood let sucks). Also if the original has a different kinda bag (leather satchel) they will be clearly different than the clone (default job bag)(again back to point one).
4. if the original is off station and/or SSD in a locker somewhere than no conflict will really occur and its kinda boring.
5. Could use some more flavor mechanically. Maybe a small unstable teleport similar to bluespace golems just to give em something that can provide a slight edge and major tell. Even just a mood let saying "I can fix this paradox if i off the other guy" would make it FEEL more like your not just a carbon copy but a paradoxical clone.
6. An evil goatee would be hilarious for clones to have a chance to get even if optional.
TLDR. The clone needs the stuff the original has on when they spawn (clothing at the very least, items, ect), More info on what their target is like so they can blend in better and something to make it more mechanically flavorful than just "im you but slightly evil until you die". Cool idea and but lacking in being flavorful beyond "a same looking alternate you" but needs better execution mechanically.
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
having a gander at the github chatter and one of the things I've seen brought up as a concern is how there are tells that the paradox clone is an antagonist (and thus valid) and easy to spot, especially if the target is a member of a metagang that'll instantly be able to go "I'm the real me because nya" or whatever
sudden thought: what if sometimes this is the bad timeline and the clone is from the good timeline, and the clone's objective is to stop the bad stuff that their original is about to do?
In other words, the clone should occasionally spawn as a crew-aligned version, specifically targeting and duplicating an antagonist, with the secondary objective to ensure that their counterpart from this timeline does not achieve their objectives.
Naturally, antagonist paradox clones could claim to be the good guy to get their targets lynched.
sudden thought: what if sometimes this is the bad timeline and the clone is from the good timeline, and the clone's objective is to stop the bad stuff that their original is about to do?
In other words, the clone should occasionally spawn as a crew-aligned version, specifically targeting and duplicating an antagonist, with the secondary objective to ensure that their counterpart from this timeline does not achieve their objectives.
Naturally, antagonist paradox clones could claim to be the good guy to get their targets lynched.
- san7890
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
Points 1 and 3 sound important to post on the PR (especially the heirloom thing, that sounds like an oversight to me).
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- Hoolny
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
After playing and observing a large amount of paradox clones and hearing what a lot of people have to say about them in ghost chat and such I have seen two main concerns
Current Concerns:
1.Paradox Clone stops being an antag after the target is killed bringing a lot of people to compare it to obessed and just being generally disappointed with the lack of anything to do after the whole task is done.
2.The fact that people can easily tell who is and isn't the clone based on general relation the target has with others and the lack of similar equipment.
I have encountered this issue in my own experience were I become Axle Brady and a chemist associated with him asked me "how much is the zaza" and after responding wrong he figured out I wasent the real one and so I was killed
Possible Solutions:
1.Paradox Clones Stop being an antag
Having paradox clone have a general purpose after the killing of their target is important for the fact that giving player a motivation do it on the first place I have seeing a high amount of instances were paradox clones don't even bother to kill or interact with their target at all and just do whatever using it as a respawn role.
A possible solution for this current problem would be both giving a reason for the paradox clone to kill their target and giving something for the paradox clone to do after their target is killed, this can come in the form of creating a ripple in reality making another paradox clone to spawn from the same reality as the other paradox clone with the same mission to kill who ever the person from this reality is, but how do we integrate the previous paradox clone into this?
Well as cult, revs and nuke ops have the marks in the top right corner to tell who is with them and who isn't giving all paradox clones that mark to tell who is and isn't in their side the old paradox clone and help the current paradox clone kill their target to produce a ripple in reality creating more and more clones this being scenario A were the clones win.
For the case were the Clones loose adding even more of an incentive for clones to kill their targets giving them a time limit were they slowly fade away from this reality as they are not part of it, this time increasing for every person the clones replace with themselves once the time is up every clone will be wiped out of reality.
This will make it so clones will never just be non antagonist used as a respawn role to do whatever normal crew activity they want and making them more of a full fledge antag with a unique time mechanic that will differentiate them from other conversion antags like cult and revs.
This will also promote what the original design doc said crew collaboration adding a new fight the crew has to investigate and coordinate against, with the paradox clones also having to manage their time on the station to replace to current time line with theirs
2. Paradox Clones are easy to tell apart
Currently clones can be easily tell a part from the original ones mostly because clones spawn as the default start of the original not changing for cloth or limb changes this can be fixed by making the clones either
1. Mirror the current clothing attire and items the living person has.
2.This is just me theorizing I don't even know if its possible making it so paradox clone and current crewmember with the paradox clone always sharing the exact same equipment meaning if the crew member throws a welder down so does the paradox clone and the same is true for everything the paradox clone losses or gains
When it comes to people being able to easily tell who is the paradox clone based on general relation the target has made throughout the round making it so the paradox clones get some time to look at the game play of their target before they spawn and giving them the same changeling panel has to know their speech pattern would be optimal.
I believe paradox clone has a huge amount of potential and I'm overjoyed that someone has put time into making a new antagonist and I believe it can be improved on to become a full fledge team antag that is based around time teamwork and investigation another thing that the crew can scream in comms about in concern that isn't the typical REVS! or CULT!
Current Concerns:
1.Paradox Clone stops being an antag after the target is killed bringing a lot of people to compare it to obessed and just being generally disappointed with the lack of anything to do after the whole task is done.
2.The fact that people can easily tell who is and isn't the clone based on general relation the target has with others and the lack of similar equipment.
I have encountered this issue in my own experience were I become Axle Brady and a chemist associated with him asked me "how much is the zaza" and after responding wrong he figured out I wasent the real one and so I was killed
Possible Solutions:
1.Paradox Clones Stop being an antag
Having paradox clone have a general purpose after the killing of their target is important for the fact that giving player a motivation do it on the first place I have seeing a high amount of instances were paradox clones don't even bother to kill or interact with their target at all and just do whatever using it as a respawn role.
A possible solution for this current problem would be both giving a reason for the paradox clone to kill their target and giving something for the paradox clone to do after their target is killed, this can come in the form of creating a ripple in reality making another paradox clone to spawn from the same reality as the other paradox clone with the same mission to kill who ever the person from this reality is, but how do we integrate the previous paradox clone into this?
Well as cult, revs and nuke ops have the marks in the top right corner to tell who is with them and who isn't giving all paradox clones that mark to tell who is and isn't in their side the old paradox clone and help the current paradox clone kill their target to produce a ripple in reality creating more and more clones this being scenario A were the clones win.
For the case were the Clones loose adding even more of an incentive for clones to kill their targets giving them a time limit were they slowly fade away from this reality as they are not part of it, this time increasing for every person the clones replace with themselves once the time is up every clone will be wiped out of reality.
This will make it so clones will never just be non antagonist used as a respawn role to do whatever normal crew activity they want and making them more of a full fledge antag with a unique time mechanic that will differentiate them from other conversion antags like cult and revs.
This will also promote what the original design doc said crew collaboration adding a new fight the crew has to investigate and coordinate against, with the paradox clones also having to manage their time on the station to replace to current time line with theirs
2. Paradox Clones are easy to tell apart
Currently clones can be easily tell a part from the original ones mostly because clones spawn as the default start of the original not changing for cloth or limb changes this can be fixed by making the clones either
1. Mirror the current clothing attire and items the living person has.
2.This is just me theorizing I don't even know if its possible making it so paradox clone and current crewmember with the paradox clone always sharing the exact same equipment meaning if the crew member throws a welder down so does the paradox clone and the same is true for everything the paradox clone losses or gains
When it comes to people being able to easily tell who is the paradox clone based on general relation the target has made throughout the round making it so the paradox clones get some time to look at the game play of their target before they spawn and giving them the same changeling panel has to know their speech pattern would be optimal.
I believe paradox clone has a huge amount of potential and I'm overjoyed that someone has put time into making a new antagonist and I believe it can be improved on to become a full fledge team antag that is based around time teamwork and investigation another thing that the crew can scream in comms about in concern that isn't the typical REVS! or CULT!
- Hoolny
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
TLDR:
1.Make paradox clone have time to observe their target and make them spawn with the exact Items and attire their target has
2.Make paradox clone produce another paradox clone when they kill their target if they fail to do so in a time limit they are all wiped from reality and give all paradox clones a team antag icon they can see who is and isn't a paradox clone
1.Make paradox clone have time to observe their target and make them spawn with the exact Items and attire their target has
2.Make paradox clone produce another paradox clone when they kill their target if they fail to do so in a time limit they are all wiped from reality and give all paradox clones a team antag icon they can see who is and isn't a paradox clone
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
PRETEXT: I haven't played a round where there's been a paradox clone yet.
I really like Screenmonster's suggestion if there being a chance of the paradox clone being there to stop antags. I don't know how well it would work in practice though. If this were to happen, it'd be good for it to be some sort of randomly generated reason for why you have to stop them like "You must stop Kevin Spessman, as they will cause a calamity by mass ordering donk pockets" or something silly. Kind of like in some time travel plots where it's a "you have to stop your time traveling self/stop 'person' because they'll do 'y' in the future, and it will cause the fall of civilizations!" I'm unsure if it would be better for that to be a separate quasi-antag thing (kind of like bounty hunters)
Perhaps the paradox clone thing that makes more and more paradox clones could be a rarer and more costly in terms of dynamic threat points because it sounds really fun, but at the same time, I imagine people would get sick of it if it rolled every single time a paradox clone was created. Plus, you have the logistics question of how you would get ghost roles since conversion/team antags rely heavily on rapid conversion methods (cult/revs) or a way to mass respawn ghosts (xenos/spiders/also cult). Plus, there's not really a way to effectively counter it from the crew's point of view unless they start blasting anyone who fails any sort of "feeling" test ranging from IC stuff like "what did the clown say in the bar 35 minutes ago when we were both there" (which is fine), to just blasting a paradox clone because they aren't typing like their target would (which is questionable). I guess you could mind shield implant everyone if you heard there was a paradox clone but that is expensive (and mind shield implants are cringe)
The most horrid time to be alive during a cult/rev round is when neither side is winning, but both sides have taken enough losses or have enough guys to just start murdering people instead of converting/deconverting them. In theory, this should be the most paranoia-laden part of the round, but in reality, 90% of the time, it just becomes "make spessman horizontal if no implant" or "make spessman horizontal if no cult or rev icon" I imagine that the runaway paradox clone thing would have similar issues.
I really like Screenmonster's suggestion if there being a chance of the paradox clone being there to stop antags. I don't know how well it would work in practice though. If this were to happen, it'd be good for it to be some sort of randomly generated reason for why you have to stop them like "You must stop Kevin Spessman, as they will cause a calamity by mass ordering donk pockets" or something silly. Kind of like in some time travel plots where it's a "you have to stop your time traveling self/stop 'person' because they'll do 'y' in the future, and it will cause the fall of civilizations!" I'm unsure if it would be better for that to be a separate quasi-antag thing (kind of like bounty hunters)
Perhaps the paradox clone thing that makes more and more paradox clones could be a rarer and more costly in terms of dynamic threat points because it sounds really fun, but at the same time, I imagine people would get sick of it if it rolled every single time a paradox clone was created. Plus, you have the logistics question of how you would get ghost roles since conversion/team antags rely heavily on rapid conversion methods (cult/revs) or a way to mass respawn ghosts (xenos/spiders/also cult). Plus, there's not really a way to effectively counter it from the crew's point of view unless they start blasting anyone who fails any sort of "feeling" test ranging from IC stuff like "what did the clown say in the bar 35 minutes ago when we were both there" (which is fine), to just blasting a paradox clone because they aren't typing like their target would (which is questionable). I guess you could mind shield implant everyone if you heard there was a paradox clone but that is expensive (and mind shield implants are cringe)
The most horrid time to be alive during a cult/rev round is when neither side is winning, but both sides have taken enough losses or have enough guys to just start murdering people instead of converting/deconverting them. In theory, this should be the most paranoia-laden part of the round, but in reality, 90% of the time, it just becomes "make spessman horizontal if no implant" or "make spessman horizontal if no cult or rev icon" I imagine that the runaway paradox clone thing would have similar issues.
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Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
If the implication is that this was a meta trick then this is already an existing problem with changelings?I have encountered this issue in my own experience were I become Axle Brady and a chemist associated with him asked me "how much is the zaza" and after responding wrong he figured out I wasent the real one and so I was killed
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
That being said if it's true that paradox clones don't copy clothing then that is gonna be pretty nutty. I'm CMO basically every round I play and it's not like they'll be able to get a second set of CMO gear.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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- TheFinalPotato
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
The paradox clone not having a goal after it does its replacing is kinda the point, not all antags need to have an endgame.
We want more minor ones so we can have trouble without distracting from major shit going on, or while allowing for major shit to build. Same idea as why stuff like stardust exists in the event pool (tho honestly I'm a bit fuzzy on that one's usefulness)
We want more minor ones so we can have trouble without distracting from major shit going on, or while allowing for major shit to build. Same idea as why stuff like stardust exists in the event pool (tho honestly I'm a bit fuzzy on that one's usefulness)
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
I kind of wish paradox clones had weight towards more important people. I threw a few at Sybil and got a paradox clone of - An assistant who went SSD in maint, a janitor that died and went DNR, and a doctor that got rushed by their clone just to immediately saw the clone's head off.
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
Who exactly is we?TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:10 am The paradox clone not having a goal after it does its replacing is kinda the point, not all antags need to have an endgame.
We want more minor ones so we can have trouble without distracting from major shit going on, or while allowing for major shit to build. Same idea as why stuff like stardust exists in the event pool (tho honestly I'm a bit fuzzy on that one's usefulness)
It's not a good point though
people don't really want to just have a respawn role where they do a single task and if they succeed they get to play a job role they didn't sign up for what's wrong with having more antags I find paradox clone creating more paradox clones to take over the station in a team antag kind of deal to be far more fun as a playing mechanic that the current kill objective A then act as a normal crewmember
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
They aren't forced to choose paradox clone, if they select "yes" when prompted then "killing and replacing someone" is in fact exactly what they signed up for.
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
We is me. I assume other people will agree with me because I'm correct.Hoolny wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:19 pmWho exactly is we?TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:10 am The paradox clone not having a goal after it does its replacing is kinda the point, not all antags need to have an endgame.
We want more minor ones so we can have trouble without distracting from major shit going on, or while allowing for major shit to build. Same idea as why stuff like stardust exists in the event pool (tho honestly I'm a bit fuzzy on that one's usefulness)
It's not a good point though
people don't really want to just have a respawn role where they do a single task and if they succeed they get to play a job role they didn't sign up for what's wrong with having more antags I find paradox clone creating more paradox clones to take over the station in a team antag kind of deal to be far more fun as a playing mechanic that the current kill objective A then act as a normal crewmember
Low threat antags are not like this plague to be avoided just cause they're less exciting then a rev or traitor roll. Not all antags need to be roundenders.
Giving the clone something else to do post kill would be fine, not doing that would be fine too. Goal of the pr seems to be replacing and then not being caught, which might be alright, we'll see. I liked the idea of having them be bad at their job on purpose, that's really funny and could impact others without just being an end of the world thing. Fun for the player too.
Every antag being a roundender would be more fun for some players, but it would mean less variety in the round and potentially takes away a different avenue of interest. Pushing every antag to develop to fit that mold stifles anything but that slice, and doesn't really approach the idea on its own terms. It's like going to a pizza place and getting mad they don't serve burgers. I realize we may have been talking past each other, but not all antags need to be "full fledged". They shouldn't be.
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
We is maintainers. We want more minor antagonists, which is why things like thieves get merged, but it has so far been tricky to find an antagonist that is minor, not complex, and doesn't overwhelm administration. We will keep trying, though.
Correct.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
the optimal solution is to draw blood from the person you replace, and generate never-ending conflict with them by pod personing them.
Or you could accept the end of your objective and just play a normal shift.
Or you could accept the end of your objective and just play a normal shift.
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
A big difference that I can see, changelings have abilities. Fighting a changeling one on one is suicide and the changeling has the freedom to change their disguise at will, unlike the paradox clone who once found out is doomed.Mothblocks wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 4:15 pm If the implication is that this was a meta trick then this is already an existing problem with changelings?
Giving the clone some minor abilities might be a good change. Something like being able to go back in time status wise or being able to copy the original's health.
It keeps getting worse!?
- Indie-ana Jones
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- Byond Username: Indie-ana Jones
Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
The only thing I don't like about it is that its a cheap light midround with decent weight that can be repeated and whose effects on the round as a whole are very minimal. Sounds like a threat sink to me.
If you limit how many times per round this guy can spawn or alternatively, add a threat injection larger than its cost when it succeeds on killing his target (make it happen after a period of time after the clone's target dies and stays dead, only trigger it once?), then I think it'd be a better threat investment.
Also, at a certain population threshold, have it spawn more than one clone per roll? Just a thought.
If you limit how many times per round this guy can spawn or alternatively, add a threat injection larger than its cost when it succeeds on killing his target (make it happen after a period of time after the clone's target dies and stays dead, only trigger it once?), then I think it'd be a better threat investment.
Also, at a certain population threshold, have it spawn more than one clone per roll? Just a thought.
- san7890
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
That might be funny if done sparsely, but I can see how it can just become less of an exciting challenge for people to overcome and more of just a headache that you wish you didn't enlist for in the first place.Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:52 pm -snip-
Also, at a certain population threshold, have it spawn more than one clone per roll? Just a thought.
Simultaneously making both the best and worst jokes on the internet. I like looking at maps and code. Learn how to map today!. You may rate me here.
- TypicalRig
- Joined: Sat May 01, 2021 8:18 pm
- Byond Username: TypicalRig
Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
right now it's kind of lackluster in the fact that the clone can easily be outed just by having the original describe all his interactions with people and then having people back this up. the only time you can't do this is if you interacted with nobody the entire round or the people you interacted with are all dead. I'm not sure about special abilities, but maybe give paradox clones the ability to access the say logs (and interaction logs like combat and handing things, etc?) if there's a way of doing that without it being too clunky or user unfriendly. It would at the very least give the clone more IC information to work with for their deception.
- DaydreamIQ
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:45 am
- Byond Username: DaydreamIQ
Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
I've only played a single round of clone and to be frank...it feels underwhelming. So for one, you start as a roundstart version of whoever your impersonating which can already be a red flag for blending in. You're not exactly a real antagonist since you only fuck over one person and then continue the round as normal. The second it as Testmerged people were already screaming "HELP I HAVE A PARADOX CLONE" over comms instead of defaulting to ling or morph, and there's a small issue where your ID is useless for using lathes because you dont have the account number for it .
I really like the idea, but it needs more to it than it currently has or its just gonna go the way of thief.
I really like the idea, but it needs more to it than it currently has or its just gonna go the way of thief.
- Capsandi
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:59 pm
- Byond Username: Capsandi
Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
Good antag. If you're having trouble blending in in conversation just begin yelling about a cult base in maintenance. Maybe the threat used to bring the clone about could be refunded when the original dies, but if you really need all of your antag rolls to be murderbone-compatible than you can "accidentally" leave your original's corpse in plain sight then murder any doctors who try to revive them and domino from there.
I guess blending in is harder on the rp server but for lrp servers its as easy as messing up your roundstart outfit or even just going masked and without an id until you find some other identification.
I guess blending in is harder on the rp server but for lrp servers its as easy as messing up your roundstart outfit or even just going masked and without an id until you find some other identification.
Lower your tone with me if your tracked play time doesn't look like this:Timonk wrote:You have clearly never seen his dickWesoda25 wrote:Genuinely think they should be blacklisted.
Flatulent wrote:of course you can change religion doing it while islamic however makes you lose your head from happiness
- blackdav123
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:04 pm
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- Capsandi
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:59 pm
- Byond Username: Capsandi
Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
Not on a lrp server, and mrp players signed up for ineffective antagonists.
Lower your tone with me if your tracked play time doesn't look like this:Timonk wrote:You have clearly never seen his dickWesoda25 wrote:Genuinely think they should be blacklisted.
Flatulent wrote:of course you can change religion doing it while islamic however makes you lose your head from happiness
- san7890
- In-Game Game Master
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
I'm removing this from the servers to allow the PR author time to address all the feedback they've been given (of which there appears to be plenty of).
Simultaneously making both the best and worst jokes on the internet. I like looking at maps and code. Learn how to map today!. You may rate me here.
- Mothblocks
- Code Maintainer
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- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
If you think LRP admins are that dumb, wait until they meet you
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
- Drag
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:16 am
- Byond Username: Thedragmeme
Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
I haven't been able to tell so far but do paradox clones inherent visual traits like heterochromia? If not I see that being a dead giveaway for players who use such. I also think it would be a lot better to have the clone inherit what the individual is wearing and start with maint access rather than a toolbox.
-
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
Add a small chance to spawn like 5 paradox clones without telling them
- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
- Byond Username: SinfulBliss
- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
This was a great moment though. That chemist had previously sold me bathsalts for 200cr per so he knew you were fake because you didn't know the price. It was pretty smart and that's exactly how I'd envision paradox clones are supposed to play out... Often times people will lynch the real person instantly if they're convincing enough, but if they spend some time investigating they'll be able to determine they're fake. By that time you should be long gone though.Hoolny wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 2:42 am 2.The fact that people can easily tell who is and isn't the clone based on general relation the target has with others and the lack of similar equipment.
I have encountered this issue in my own experience were I become Axle Brady and a chemist associated with him asked me "how much is the zaza" and after responding wrong he figured out I wasent the real one and so I was killed
Spoiler:
- san7890
- In-Game Game Master
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Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
It was fully merged today, if you have any code-side issues with it please file it using this: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... _report.md or using the red "Report Issue" button in the top-right of your game. I removed the config that artificially inflated the values when I pulled the test merges earlier, so you should get a pretty uniform experience.
This thread will remain open for general feedback.
This thread will remain open for general feedback.
Simultaneously making both the best and worst jokes on the internet. I like looking at maps and code. Learn how to map today!. You may rate me here.
- iwishforducks
- Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:48 pm
- Byond Username: Iwishforducks
Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
had a round where i was good friends with the captain. they holler’d me over to medical and asked me to decide who the real captain was. i could instantly tell who the real one was due to their cape and sabre, but i decided to ask questions to decide who the real one was. i gave all the points to the fake captain- that was, until a mime accidentally primed a holy hand grenade in the middle of medical.
incredibly simple antag with incredible roleplay opportunities, we need more like these
incredibly simple antag with incredible roleplay opportunities, we need more like these
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)
-
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:43 am
- Byond Username: BrianBackslide
Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
What if, when paradox clone rolls for the clown, it rolls three clones instead?
- blackdav123
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:04 pm
- Byond Username: Blackdav123
Re: Paradox Clone Feedback
There is zero reason for anyone except for the person being hunted down to care about a clone. It isnt an evil clone trying to blend in so they can ruin this reality or anything, its just a 1v1 and whoever wins gets to go do the same job they've been doing the whole time. From security's perspective, they only care about the clone because it is trying to commit a murder. If it succeeds, why bother finding the truth? If your captain just replaced by an identical one who is just better and isnt evil, why bother? From the clone's perspective, winning is boring. Once I told a few lies and beat the charges, I was off scott free but the only thing left to do was be whatever random job I never really wanted.
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