Farquaar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:13 am
kayozz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:50 am
The way I see it is... Killing snitches/witnesses who report revs to sec is absolutely fine. Killing NT crew who try and attack the revs is fine. Especially if it's some validhunter trying to kill the head rev. But actively going out your way to kill some innocent random person who is not actively doing anything to disrupt the revs is a bit of a shitty one, like if you just walk into virology and behead the virologist without even attempting to tie them up for later conversion, then that's a bit shitty.
The only justification for killing medical staff in medbay (for no raisin) is if they're treating sec or heads, so that'd be justified. But blowing med up for no good reason would be shitty.
It's all circumstantial. If you can justify the reason for killing a non-head for any of the reasons mentioned, you shouldn't get in trouble.
As others have mentioned NT (non heads and non-sec) are potential recruits, so killing them is kinda counter-productive.
Revs aren't the good guys. They have a goal and they shouldn't have to care how many bodies pile up along the way.
There's no need for special rules here. If a rev attacks a non-rev who isn't harming them, they risk losing the fight and dying/deconverting. Unless winning that fight confers some benefit to their team, it's a bad idea to initiate that battle. If you don't want to get beaten up by a bloodthirsty revolutionary, then you need to tip the scales by making it more risky to attack you than to leave you alone. Things shouldn't be business as usual during a revolution- be afraid and adjust your behaviour accordingly!
This is pretty much my stance at the moment. Revolutions are historically violent with collateral damage.
The thing to keep in mind is the overall grand scheme of things.
If the conversation in this thread is boiling down to semantics and specific situations then we are already failing to be looking at the big picture approach. Those other things are all things for case by case tickets.
Keep in mind the the op, specifically the 'dont do anything to inconvenience your team' part. That could mean blowing up medbay, murdering a room full of free converts, who knows, it's situational semantics, and not worth discussing when the situations will never be the same. That part isn't getting a microscope here, and it would never end well to go into hyper specifics about it.
The question here is, is requiring A REASON IN GENERAL to kill non revs/targets as a general guideline a good idea if it's set to prevent what's being presented as lol kills
What about the alternatives? Is this feasible considering the state of mind shields and antag hud? Is that fair to require considering the tdm dynamic of revs? How would this impact how rounds play out? Would people not feel like there is a threat to them?
NOT what reasons are better than others in the heat of the moment. NOT how much effort needs to be put in for conversion in xyz case.
Also consider that Manuel already lays out that you'll want to have some kind of reasoning with revs, so consider experiencing that and see if it's to your liking as well.
If you don't like the Manuel approach of justification, you wouldn't like it on the other servers either.
Can it death and destruct?
In general no, conversion should take priority, however if the situation is dire you are allowed to kill as many as required to accomplish your goals.
A very similar clause could become the reality for the other servers if this was to happen.