Sinfulpiss appeal nut.

[Turbonerd]

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33680

He's jealous because he can't count with us.

[ekaterina]

So this is the famed sinfulbliss that Kendrickorium compared me to... interesting.

Even if it later transforms into an objectively justified ban, the procedural impropriety evident in that first appeal offends my own sense of justice and fairness. If a headmin waded into my appeal upholding my decision while LARPing as the King of Bias, I would have overturned my own ban there and then without a second thought.

Unfathomably based and mistrial-pilled.

all sinful had to do was go "yeah i understand why my actions could be seen as x, and ill do y to improve on that , my goal isnt to stir drama its to facilitate discussion but i do need better judgement on where to draw the line. x y z" the bag was in his hands and he fumbled

Apologising when you actually believe you did something wrong is fine, maybe even good.
Apologising just because someone else thinks you did something wrong is cowardly and not righteous.
Sinfulbliss believes he was incorrectly banned and is standing up for himself. He did good. Never make undeserved concessions. Give an inch and they'll take a mile.
Whether his belief is correct or not is another matter that chadmin Timberpoes will soon unravel for us.

Let me shoot 1000% straight with you on this. I was concerned about showing my hand on this but I've been assured by people who know Sinful that he's not really the kind of guy to pay lip service and that in his own words he has a hard time making the kind of posts that lolswat is describing. I've seen a handful of people endorse similar appeal strategies and apparently some people are trying to talk him into it directly.

Did I just misinterpret this or is he actually saying he wants sinfulbliss to lie to him, that he wants "lip service" over actual intent? Holy crap, he is more concerned with appearances than actions.

Why wont sinful just make an actual appeal?

This is an actual appeal. "I was unfairly banned and denied due process". Not all appeals are insincere apologies, see above.

[RaveRadbury]

Let me shoot 1000% straight with you on this. I was concerned about showing my hand on this but I've been assured by people who know Sinful that he's not really the kind of guy to pay lip service and that in his own words he has a hard time making the kind of posts that lolswat is describing. I've seen a handful of people endorse similar appeal strategies and apparently some people are trying to talk him into it directly.

Did I just misinterpret this or is he actually saying he wants sinfulbliss to lie to him, that he wants "lip service" over actual intent? Holy crap, he is more concerned with appearances than actions.

You misinterpreted it.

[Timonk]

I feel humbled to be mentioned as a saneposter but i respectfully deny your claims

[datorangebottle]

A bold retort. I don't think I've ever seen a player turn down being unbanned, before. Let's see how this plays out.
Will the headmin triumvirate uphold Rave's original ban? Will they uphold his attempt at reversing the ban? Will they deny his ability to deny Rave the opportunity to reverse the ban? Just about everything is in the cards, and the deck is up in the air because Sinful just started a game of 52-card pickup.

[Vekter]

Haha! I'm too good to just let Rave unban me and take the very obvious hint that I shouldn't be deliberately trying to start or add to drama just for the sake of doing so! I'm going to wait for the headmins to comment, who are generally more likely to deny me an unban especially given my attitude towards Rave and the fact that I refused to just take what I was offered!

[Armhulen]

Haha! I'm too good to just let Rave unban me and take the very obvious hint that I shouldn't be deliberately trying to start or add to drama just for the sake of doing so! I'm going to wait for the headmins to comment, who are generally more likely to deny me an unban especially given my attitude towards Rave and the fact that I refused to just take what I was offered!

All he had to say was that he would follow the forum rules which like... weren't you planning on doing that anyways?

>sorry i can't accept your olive branch

bro why bro

[datorangebottle]

Haha! I'm too good to just let Rave unban me and take the very obvious hint that I shouldn't be deliberately trying to start or add to drama just for the sake of doing so! I'm going to wait for the headmins to comment, who are generally more likely to deny me an unban especially given my attitude towards Rave and the fact that I refused to just take what I was offered!

I don't think this is the angle Sinful's coming from. The guy has a point, and I don't think he's demanding the world here.
Rave's strict enforcement of vague rules is what got us here in the first place. How is he supposed to trust he won't be arbitrarily banned again if he takes Rave's word for it?

[Striders13]

Unban? Nah, sinfulmiss me with that shit.

[Vekter]

Haha! I'm too good to just let Rave unban me and take the very obvious hint that I shouldn't be deliberately trying to start or add to drama just for the sake of doing so! I'm going to wait for the headmins to comment, who are generally more likely to deny me an unban especially given my attitude towards Rave and the fact that I refused to just take what I was offered!

I don't think this is the angle Sinful's coming from. The guy has a point, and I don't think he's demanding the world here.
Rave's strict enforcement of vague rules is what got us here in the first place. How is he supposed to trust he won't be arbitrarily banned again if he takes Rave's word for it?

I mean, honestly I don't think the ban was unwarranted to begin with. We've had a huge problem with shit-stirring in Player's Club for a while now. I get that there's a case to be made that the ban wasn't warranted, but is the issue that Rave didn't warn them, or that they didn't deserve it?

[Capsandi]

bold names say he is 0ph Chinfulrizz
thin names say hes 7ph smister robinson
He was banned for a post that would have gotten others laughed at, nothing more. Along with the stacked warnings its blatantly clear that the ban had no merit. Why should he act like hes being given a merciful chance to repent?

[datorangebottle]

I mean, honestly I don't think the ban was unwarranted to begin with. We've had a huge problem with shit-stirring in Player's Club for a while now. I get that there's a case to be made that the ban wasn't warranted, but is the issue that Rave didn't warn them, or that they didn't deserve it?

Both of those. Apologies for the short essay to follow.
A) Administrative warnings, as I established earlier in the thread, are a powerful tool. They're meant to give people a chance to improve, yeah? Rave didn't use them this way, he used them to make himself look better as he unfairly ejected Sinful from the club.

B) Sinful didn't deserve to be banned for 'drama stirring' because that's not what he was doing, nor was it the actual reason Rave banned him, as Rave freely admitted earlier in this thread.

The sinful ban was a Rule 1 style QC ban from a place that has higher standards for banning than in-game.

If it's a quality control ban, it should have been outright stated as one instead of hidden behind 'drama stirring'. He shouldn't have needed to warn him for something completely unrelated, just warn him for global rule 6! That's about the only rule you can prove that Sinful regularly broke, even if it was a minor amount of drama that resulted in, "wow, that opinion sucks!" and people moving on.

The first post he was warned for was for disputing someone else being banned under the exact same rule, used questionably by the same admin, in a thread about that ban. The second warning came moments later for an unrelated post where he asked what the point of the rule was as an honest question. Which objectively isn't drama stirring, but gets him to three strikes. Do the below posts, the two posts which triggered the ban, read as 'drama stirring' to you?

► Show Spoiler

I copypasted these from the first appeal; the first post was deleted for some reason, but they both link to the threads they were posted in like normal quotes if you click the arrow.

>engages in drama because 26 people are calling me a pedophile
>gets banned for engaging in drama ((NOT BECAUSE OF THE LOLI TOTALLY NOT BECAUSE OF THE LOLI STATEMENTS IT WAS FOR EH HEM “ENGAGING IN DRAMA” THAT IS YOUR CRIME. AND NO THE YOUTUBE VIDEO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR DECISION ON THE MATTER!!))

happy new years fellas :]

! Message from: RaveRadbury
User was 86'ed from the club for posts like this and posts that reflected these stances.
why is stirring drama against the rules

who cares man the world isn't gonna blow up. everythings gonna be just fine just close the forum and in a week the issue will have resolved itself

It's interesting to note that both of these posts question Rave's integrity as an administrator, and that could have been a motivating factor in applying this ban. The first is doubting a similar ban Rave placed, and the second doubting a rule that, as far as i'm aware, Rave created.

[Armhulen]

orangebottle everyone agrees the original ban is muddy but even sinful himself said one of his posts which got moderated was valid so there is at least has some basis behind the ban. so considering he can say "i will follow the forum rules" at any time he really just should...
saying nothing was wrong with his behavior is just stupid

[Armhulen]

imo just unbanning and trying to moderate with more warning and communication is basically what sinful wanted but that involves admitting that one post that got moderated that he said was a valid deletion... WAS a valid deletion idk its so easy

[iwishforducks]

i think this appeal goes farther than just banning sinful, and i think sinful is well aware of it. he doesn't particularly care about the personal attachments of the ban but rather the precedent that the ban sets. sinful refused rave's catch because... it's literally just setting him up in the same way he got banned last time. i.e., if i don't like your post once, i have the privilege to ban you on the spot because you were permabanned before.

if rave wants to handle the player's club like this then so god help us all

[iwishforducks]

also really?

ignoring this previous escalation that you find to be unfair.

[Timberpoes]

... i.e., if i don't like your post once, i have the privilege to ban you on the spot because you were permabanned before.

if rave wants to handle the player's club like this then so god help us all

I think there's pretty good precedent that it hasn't been handled like that in retrospect of Sinful's ban. It's just the nature of the beast, Rave didn't like Sinful's posting over a longer period of time. In the original appeal Rave cites like some half a dozen or more posts they took issue with.

Just nobody did any formal warnings until a tipping point where Sinful ended up banned for posting habits they should have had more prior warning of; if there were more prior warnings the ban may have been objectively justified in its own right.

It's technicalities all the way down.

The sooner Sinful confronts the idea that should they be unbanned it will almost assuredly be on one or more technicalities instead of on a total rejection of Rave's assessment for Sinful's post history in the Player's Club, the better. The appeal won't erase their history or warnings accrued thus far. Forever dancing around that point is a fast-track path to being banned again.

[RaveRadbury]

if rave wants to handle the player's club like this then so god help us all

I've been handling it like this the whole time and you and nearly everyone else have been doing okay.

This being my usual style of engagement, rather than the instance specifically regarding sinful.

If Sinful does get unbanned I'm going to be true to what I said, he'll get warnings for things and there will be proper escalation. I think it will be unlikely that he'll do anything severe enough to immediately get banned, especially considering that he's ceded that both one of the warnings involving the issue make sense.

[datorangebottle]

orangebottle everyone agrees the original ban is muddy but even sinful himself said one of his posts which got moderated was valid so there is at least has some basis behind the ban. so considering he can say "i will follow the forum rules" at any time he really just should...
saying nothing was wrong with his behavior is just stupid

Let's take a look at that one.

The only post I made that was likely drama-stirring is the deleted one I got a warning for. Even that one, if you read it, actually isn't even attacking Typhnox, it's making fun of the ban reason, but regardless it probably qualifies as drama-stirring. Those sorts of posts, as I said in the OP, I won't make.

>engages in drama because 26 people are calling me a pedophile
>gets banned for engaging in drama ((NOT BECAUSE OF THE LOLI TOTALLY NOT BECAUSE OF THE LOLI STATEMENTS IT WAS FOR EH HEM “ENGAGING IN DRAMA” THAT IS YOUR CRIME. AND NO THE YOUTUBE VIDEO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR DECISION ON THE MATTER!!))

happy new years fellas :]

I disagree with Sinful on this point. It's a tongue-in-cheek, on-topic accusation at the banning administrator. You would have to be the banning administrator to misconstrue this as an attempt to cause drama- oh. wait. Rave is the administrator in question.

I would go through and analyze every single one of Sinful's posts that was linked in his original appeal- but two things. A) that's on him to do and best saved for the appeal thread proper. I don't want to provide perspective before him and taint the pool, so to speak. B) Rave didn't provide any sort of criticism for each post, just sort of listed them and highlighted things like they spoke for themselves.

if rave wants to handle the player's club like this then so god help us all

I fully agree. If I remember right, I posted or wanted to post something about being too afraid of being silenced by rave to criticize him, in the past. It was in the last election peanut thread, but I'm having trouble finding that. He isn't a head administrator right now- if he wants to fabricate some reason to eject me and triple-warn into a ban, he'll have a much harder time doing so.

The sooner Sinful confronts the idea that should they be unbanned it will almost assuredly be on one or more technicalities instead of on a total rejection of Rave's assessment for Sinful's post history in the Player's Club, the better. The appeal won't erase their history or warnings accrued thus far. Forever dancing around that point is a fast-track path to being banned again.

Isn't it rather unfair to expect Sinful to defend posts without any offense provided whatsoever? If Rave wants Sinful to defend his entire post history, he should have to attack him first on each post. The only feedback he has on some of his posts is that Rave thinks they are attempts to cause drama(with no reason given), and highlights that give very little context.

[Capsandi]

Suicide plea deals are nothing new in appeal-tech, not even for metaappeals (Slig v.Discord 2/18). In fact, SPD finds its most effective use against novice meta participants such as first time appealers for bans regarding escalation. The novice defendant will place their access to the TG station server above their meta reputation. While it is true that losing access to the server damages metarep as the NCAP(Not in Coding, Playing or Administration, comparable to NEET) class of community members are seen as not worth appeal discretion. In this way, appeal discretion can be preserved for more important applications, such as wading through this week's reider appeal or in preparation to handle the ban of a high-profile defendant.

[Capsandi]

if rave wants to handle the player's club like this then so god help us all

I've been handling it like this the whole time and you and nearly everyone else have been doing okay.

Rave you do know that the single variable which separates sinful and the rest of us is that you like us and not sinful, right? Thats DarkRP paid admin rank tier. You have done a terrible job proving this ban wasn't solely in the interest of your fragile ego. Thats why nobody who needs to stay on good terms to not make their admining lives harder than needed vehemently disagrees with your administration of this forum.

Thread theme wip
https://cancer killing /tg/.com/1gjoc9ZOSehr

Will maybe pr that other one as space ambiance since there are many conflicts which take place in deep space in SS13 and I could see it fitting well for those situations as well as a general feeling of exploration.

[Capsandi]

WTF triple post but thats a cancer killing /tg/ link in my editor why is it saying cancer killing tg?
cancer killing /tg/.com /1gjoc9ZOSehr
cancer killing /tg/ . com
cancer killing /tg/
voc aroo
why is cancer killing /tg/ auto correcting to cancer killing /tg/

[TheFinalPotato]

lmao

[Capsandi]

alright so if i copy the url from the bar it gives me a link using cancer killing /tg/ which im guessing was part of a scam at some point leading to the name being autofiltered but using the copy button gives me this
https://voca.ro/12hkwRKXKSF8
which is the same link.
now i can confuse people with this
EDIT: thats the first one, i meant
https://voca.ro/1gjoc9ZOSehr

[Armhulen]

just wait until you see the word filter that makes me say INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS

[Armhulen]

Rave you do know that the single variable which separates sinful and the rest of us is that you like us and not sinful, right?

If he's worried about biased moderation a fresh start is exactly what both of them need. i still think sinful should have just taken that olive branch

[RaveRadbury]

I've said it before and I'll say it again I genuinely have no personal issue with Sinful. I would not say that I dislike him.

[Timberpoes]

just wait until you see the word filter that makes me say INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS

I slam some pointless tags in the middle like:

Code: Select all

iv[b][/b]ory tower

to bypass it.

Ivory tower.

[sinfulbliss]

any of you guys wanna talk about Starsector

[datorangebottle]

any of you guys wanna talk about Starsector

hey guys, have you heard about the hit new game STARSECTOR? what's YOUR favorite faction? i'm a protoss main! i love funny golden buildings!

[Armhulen]

any of you guys wanna talk about Starsector

i'm partitioning a new drive give me a drive number

[NoxVS]

I fully agree. If I remember right, I posted or wanted to post something about being too afraid of being silenced by rave to criticize him, in the past. It was in the last election peanut thread, but I'm having trouble finding that. He isn't a head administrator right now- if he wants to fabricate some reason to eject me and triple-warn into a ban, he'll have a much harder time doing so.

Do it then. You either are going to be proven wrong and nothing happens to you or you are given proof that you were right all along and can point at that and rally everyone to your side to stop the evil tyrant rave from reenacting the plot of George Orwell's hit book, 1984.

[Capsandi]

any of you guys wanna talk about Starsector

alright, you cancer killing /tg/

[Capsandi]

also nice job wasting time appealing this ban while you could have just waited for the hut to open

[datorangebottle]

I fully agree. If I remember right, I posted or wanted to post something about being too afraid of being silenced by rave to criticize him, in the past. It was in the last election peanut thread, but I'm having trouble finding that. He isn't a head administrator right now- if he wants to fabricate some reason to eject me and triple-warn into a ban, he'll have a much harder time doing so.

Do it then. You either are going to be proven wrong and nothing happens to you or you are given proof that you were right all along and can point at that and rally everyone to your side to stop the evil tyrant rave from reenacting the plot of George Orwell's hit book, 1984.

Mister admin... are you... drama stirring? In my wholesome, drama-free starsector/counting thread?
Shaking my SMH. Do better.

[Capsandi]

this is like watching someone wake up from a years long coma when their BFF turbonerd who was always there to defend sybilswish died the day before

[iwishforducks]

also nice job wasting time appealing this ban while you could have just waited for the hut to open

hut sucks

[conrad]

any of you guys wanna talk about Starsector

i'm partitioning a new drive give me a drive number

Number?

[TheLoLSwat]

rave trolled his reputation and it didnt even work, because he took a shot (or 7) and sinfulmissed

[Armhulen]

any of you guys wanna talk about Starsector

i'm partitioning a new drive give me a drive number

Number?

ok i meant letter sorry goodness me graciousness i got the word WRONG

[Armhulen]

also
>he's still sippy cup whiner babbling in his appeal
s-sinful, i...

[NoxVS]

any of you guys wanna talk about Starsector

i'm partitioning a new drive give me a drive number

Number?

ok i meant letter sorry goodness me graciousness i got the word WRONG

H feels like a nice letter

[datorangebottle]

any of you guys wanna talk about Starsector

i'm partitioning a new drive give me a drive number

Number?

ok i meant letter sorry goodness me graciousness i got the word WRONG

H feels like a nice letter

SMH if you had said 'A' we could've started spelling out the alphabet instead of counting.

[Armhulen]

any of you guys wanna talk about Starsector

i'm partitioning a new drive give me a drive number

Number?

ok i meant letter sorry goodness me graciousness i got the word WRONG

H feels like a nice letter

SMH if you had said 'A' we could've started spelling out the alphabet instead of counting.

ew, A drive. I'm just gonna wait for sinful to stop being a naebaby so he can get to the discussion that matters: partitioning hard drives

[sinfulbliss]

also
>he's still sippy cup whiner babbling in his appeal
s-sinful, i...

you'd think a forum mod would understand the value of discussing forumposting rule enforcement in a forumposting ban appeal thread
but then you'd remember it's armhulen......

[Armhulen]

i just hope you learned something because nobody wants you gone from this blessed community :prayer_hands:

I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.
1 Corinthians 1:10

[san7890]

Important perspective check:

I can get why Sinful's a little pissed off and came out swinging with attacks instead of with a defense. Because the last time he tried to defend himself he got told that nothing he said mattered because a headmin was too biased against him to make an objective decision.

If any admin sincerely came into an appeal and took that approach during any of my terms, I'd have them strung up in a conduct discussion faster than they could process regret over their utter incapability at performing their role.

For better or worse, the last appeal made this ban harder for someone like me to uphold. Even if it later transforms into an objectively justified ban, the procedural impropriety evident in that first appeal offends my own sense of justice and fairness. If a headmin waded into my appeal upholding my decision while LARPing as the King of Bias, I would have overturned my own ban there and then without a second thought.

A) Why did you never approach me about this before now? Just wondering. We had lots of time for you to broach it, I think I may not have responded for a multitude of reasons. Just wondering why you are only mentioning it now when it serves to make me look the worst. Its okay if you didn’t consider it that way.

B) I learned from your discussions on how “headmins get the ultimate authority on such matters” when you discussed QoL bans in cases such as oranges as well as other misc. shitters. I think I got that in my head around the fifth time you spoke about it with me. I would arguably say that since I was most active in the discord while you were speaking about headmin stuff, is that your writings on what a term should look like is what rubbed off the most on me and compelled that decision. Please don’t say such things like “spun around into a conduct thread” when your own words and deeds are what taught me to do it.

You were the biggest teacher I had before the elections or anything like that because tattle/Rave(first term)/nameless/mothblocks/melbert spoke zilch about what it was like to be a headmin in public channels, so all that you see me have done is based on what you’ve said over and over again. I am the beast you brought wittingly or unwittingly, unfortunately.

What’s past is passed however. I’m not upset about anything, I just want to politely outline how your words and deeds over and over again constantly compel people to do things that you end up not liking. This would certainly save someone who isn’t as mentally fortuitous as I from a bit of heartache.

[Timonk]

i just hope you learned something because nobody wants you gone from this blessed community :prayer_hands:

I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.
1 Corinthians 1:10

Is that a reference to the best but removed game mode hive mind?

[Armhulen]

@sinful

[sinfulbliss]

Just wondering why you are only mentioning it now when it serves to make me look the worst. Its okay if you didn’t consider it that way.

I think the way you handled the ban appeal was the most respectable out of all the replies because you were completely forthright.
It takes a lot of courage to admit your own biases publicly, especially when it'd be infinitely easier to either say nothing or come up with some post hoc justification to support them instead.

It pissed me off because it was biting and pulled no punches, but I would rather hear it from the heart than through the lips if you will.

[sinfulbliss]

@sinful

us

[datorangebottle]

FWIW, San, I don't think too many people here are holding your conduct in that appeal against you.
You came clean and admitted your bias, which is the bare minimum I'd expect from anyone in that position. You were genuine and up-front about it. It takes a sharp mind to recognize bias, and a strong heart to admit it. A lesser person would have just upheld the ban.
I honestly don't think anything about this situation reflects poorly on you.