[somepan] Sr_Soez - Note appeal, edited format

[Sr. Soez]

BYOND account: sr_soez

Character name: Paul Eeya

Ban type: Note

Ban reason: "As a security officier favored using the shotgun to arrest someone who hadn't used any lethal means, leading to their death by the hands of a revenant while the live, but crit target was in their custody. As been asked to use non-lethal means in cases where it's a possibility."

Time ban was placed: 2023-04-02 22:25:30

Server you were playing on when banned: Terry

Round ID in which ban was placed: 203018

Your side of the story: This all started when I was walking down the halls, and an assistant walks by dragging someone else on the floor, the captain rushed after asking me to dettain them, I managed to get two shots out of the double barrel I was carriying of rubbershot shells at this assistant and detained him, I left and the captain dealt with them. Later the same round, I fell down a hole into a single tile wide main tunnel below, I find myself cornered against a wall by this first assistant that begins shoving and aggressive grabing me, I manage to free myself and can land a first shot of rubbers and a second one, this time, point blank because he rushed at me. After the second shot he fells, I assume stam critted, but he was instead full critted. A revenant manifested himself killing the critted assistant and I get blamed for all this.

Why you think you should be unbanned: The adming kept arguing and wrote on the note that I used lethal means, I still insist, rubber shots its not meant to be lethal, they deal minimal damage, and being on that situation, cornered against someone shoving me, I not knowing what could be his intentions, ruled out stun batonning him, thinking I would just get wall shoved again and lose the baton. Went for the fastest, non lethal, way of dealing with a situation I didnt meant to start.

Anything else we should know: I simply would like the note to get removed, I think I used the fastest and most secure mean for me beign on that 1 tile wide tunnels, against a wall mess. This could all been avoided if the assistant, non traitor, didnt tried to start a fight with me for no apparent reason.

Edited to comply with the format

[vect0r]

Before any admins review this, you should change your appeal to follow this format:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44
Thanks!

[Somepan]

I'll first start by sharing combat logs about this whole situation

► Show Spoiler

[2023-04-02 22:01:06.947] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 70) (First Floor Fore Hallway (78,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:06.950] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 67.4) (First Floor Fore Hallway (78,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:06.951] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 64.8) (First Floor Fore Hallway (78,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:06.961] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 62.2) (First Floor Fore Hallway (78,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:06.964] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 59.6) (First Floor Fore Hallway (78,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:06.966] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 57) (First Floor Fore Hallway (78,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:07.371] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:07.373] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 54.4) (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:07.374] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:07.375] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 51.4) (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:07.377] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:07.378] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 48.4) (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:07.381] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:07.383] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:07.384] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,133,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:09.156] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) stun attacked TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 45.4) (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,134,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:22.956] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) shoved Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,134,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:23.829] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) passive grab (NEWHP: 100) (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,134,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:23.859] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) broke grab Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) (NEWHP: 100) (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,134,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:24.758] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) passive grab (NEWHP: 100) (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,134,2))
[2023-04-02 22:01:24.866] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) broke grab Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) (NEWHP: 100) (First Floor Fore Hallway (77,134,2))
-snip- 5 minutes go by.
[2023-04-02 22:06:26.814] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) passive grab (NEWHP: 100) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (146,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:28.010] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 100) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:29.014] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) thrown Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) grab from tile in 1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2) towards tile at 1st Floor Central Port Maint (146,113,2) (NEWHP: 100) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:29.014] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) has thrown Paul Eeya (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:29.817] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) passive grab (NEWHP: 93.3) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:30.722] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 93.3) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:31.621] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) thrown Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) grab from tile in 1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2) towards tile at 1st Floor Central Port Maint (146,113,2) (NEWHP: 93.3) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:31.622] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) has thrown Paul Eeya (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:32.786] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) passive grab (NEWHP: 86.3) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:33.732] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 86.3) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:34.130] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) broke grab Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) (NEWHP: 86.3) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:35.702] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shoved TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) (NEWHP: 36.1) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (144,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:37.625] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) shoved Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) into Roscoe Cox (NEWHP: 86.3) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (144,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:38.677] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) passive grab (NEWHP: 86.3) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:39.663] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Woodmaster/(Roscoe Cox) passive grab (NEWHP: 90.7) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:40.549] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) passive grab (NEWHP: 86.3) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (144,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:41.507] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 86.3) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:45.219] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [air supply pipe fitting] with the rubbershot pellet from 1st Floor Central Port Maint (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:45.221] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 36.1) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:45.223] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [air supply pipe fitting] with the rubbershot pellet from 1st Floor Central Port Maint (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:45.225] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 33) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:45.227] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [air supply pipe fitting] with the rubbershot pellet from 1st Floor Central Port Maint (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:45.228] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 30) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:45.230] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [air supply pipe fitting] with the rubbershot pellet from 1st Floor Central Port Maint (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:45.231] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 27) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:45.233] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [air supply pipe fitting] with the rubbershot pellet from 1st Floor Central Port Maint (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:45.234] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 24) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:45.236] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [air supply pipe fitting] with the rubbershot pellet from 1st Floor Central Port Maint (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:45.238] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 21) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:45.303] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) shoved Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 86.3) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (146,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:46.251] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) passive grab (NEWHP: 86.3) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:46.718] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) broke grab Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) (NEWHP: 86.3) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:47.580] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [plating] with the rubbershot pellet from 1st Floor Central Port Maint (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:47.582] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 18.8) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:47.584] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [plating] with the rubbershot pellet from 1st Floor Central Port Maint (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:47.585] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 15.8) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:47.587] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [plating] with the rubbershot pellet from 1st Floor Central Port Maint (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:47.588] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 12.8) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:47.591] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [plating] with the rubbershot pellet from 1st Floor Central Port Maint (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:47.592] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 9.8) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:47.594] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [plating] with the rubbershot pellet from 1st Floor Central Port Maint (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:47.598] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 6.8) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:47.602] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [plating] with the rubbershot pellet from 1st Floor Central Port Maint (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:47.965] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot Woodmaster/(Roscoe Cox) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 90.7) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (146,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:49.687] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shoved TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) (NEWHP: 3.8) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (145,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:06:52.172] ATTACK: Decker-5/(revenant (748)) started to harvest TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) (NEWHP: 3.8) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (148,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:07:02.085] ATTACK: TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) has died (BRUTE: 103.8, BURN: 0, TOX: 0, OXY: 0, CLONE: 0) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:07:14.683] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) grabbed *no key*/(Wally Walnut) passive grab (NEWHP: 3.8) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (146,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:07:15.585] ATTACK: Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) grabbed *no key*/(Wally Walnut) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 3.8) (1st Floor Central Port Maint (146,112,2))
[2023-04-02 22:07:19.839] ATTACK: Decker-5/(revenant (748)) cast the spell Revenant Transmit on / at Paul Eeya. (1st Floor Central Port Maint (147,112,2))

In total you dealt 46 damages
Below is an extract from our second ticket together (Not an exact copy because i realized i don't know how to do additions) in which i count those damages.

► Show Spoiler

You shot him once, he lost 13 hp
shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 70)
shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 57)
You shot him again, he lost 6hp
shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 54.4)
shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 48.4)
then again, this time 15hp
shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 36.1)
shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 21)
and again, 12hp
shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 18.8)
shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 6.8) .
For a total of 46 damages.

I left this note for two reasons. The initial reason to arrest was seemingly not known by you, as you never mentioned it, your only knowledge of why this person should've been arrested was "captain said so", at no point did you justify the arrest in any other way. If you have anything to add on the arrest reason, I would gladly hear that.
Second, you started that arrest using rubber pellets, and despite your protest in PMs that those aren't lethal, you still dealt a whopping 46 damages in 4 shots. I would therefore qualify them as "lethal". I'm not saying you had any intent to kill the person in front of you, just that there were less lethal options
Those less lethal options, such as the baton, you only used after emptying your shotgun.
To me this is an issue, as security policy clearly states that ; "security is expected to use non-lethal methods first in a conflict before escalating to lethal methods."
The use of lethal weaponry also justified to me retaliation IC from the suspect; especially as they didn't harm or try to strip you in the process.

As for your "I think I used the fastest and most secure means for me being on that 1 tile wide tunnel". Your first fight happened in a hallway, and sorry if I'm wrong about its conformation, but there you had no reason to use the shotgun. And it's not because a move is more efficient than another doesn't mean you're 100% justified doing it.
Neither of your uses of the shotgun were justified. You used it in a hallway, you used it in a 1 turf wide corridor, in both cases, you should've tried to use non lethal means BEFORE lethal ones.
If you hadn't used the shotgun in the first situation I would've been more lenient, but your use of a shotgun, point blank (as all the pellets hit on the first shot), in a hallway just shows you would've used the shotgun anyway.

The content of the note is otherwise factual and correct, apart from maybe the lack of mention of rubber pellets and their categorization as lethal which is subjective, but otherwise, i don't see any reason to remove it, as it accurately depicts what happened

[Archie700]

Prior to the shotgunning, Captain Jalen Whiteman called for an arrest of Wally Walnut for trying to steal the body of Piper Gregory, even though Wally was actually rescuing Piper from death by space carp.

Attack logs during that time including before and after the fight in first floor:

Code: Select all

09:58:06	ATTACK	*no key*/(space carp) attacked Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) (NEWHP: 84.8)	(59, 135, 2)	Recreation Area
09:58:09	ATTACK	*no key*/(space carp) attacked Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) (NEWHP: 69.8)	(60, 148, 2)	Recreation Area
09:58:10	ATTACK	*no key*/(space carp) attacked Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) (NEWHP: 54.8)	(60, 148, 2)	Recreation Area
09:58:10	ATTACK	*no key*/(space carp) attacked Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) (NEWHP: 39.8)	(59, 149, 2)	Recreation Area
09:58:10	ATTACK	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) shoved *no key*/(space carp) with failing to move it (NEWHP: 25)	(60, 149, 2)	Recreation Area
09:58:11	ATTACK	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) shoved *no key*/(space carp) with pushing it (NEWHP: 25)	(62, 149, 2)	Recreation Area
09:58:12	ATTACK	*no key*/(space carp) attacked Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) (NEWHP: 19.8)	(60, 149, 2)	Recreation Area
09:58:12	ATTACK	*no key*/(space carp) attacked Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) (NEWHP: 4.8)	(60, 148, 2)	Recreation Area
10:00:03	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) passive grab (NEWHP: -12.9)	(116, 129, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:04	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -12.9)	(116, 129, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:18	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) passive grab (NEWHP: -12.9)	(97, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:19	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) grabbed TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) passive grab (NEWHP: 80)	(94, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:21	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) grabbed TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) passive grab (NEWHP: 80)	(96, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:25	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) passive grab (NEWHP: -13.5)	(91, 129, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:25	ATTACK	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) pulled from TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with Jalen Whiteman (NEWHP: 80)	(92, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:25	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) passive grab (NEWHP: -13.5)	(91, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:26	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) passive grab (NEWHP: 73.3)	(90, 129, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:27	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -13.5)	(94, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:28	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) thrown Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) grab from tile in First Floor Fore Hallway (96,128,2) towards tile at First Floor Fore Hallway (90,130,2) (NEWHP: -13.5)	(96, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:28	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) has thrown Piper Gregory	(96, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:30	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) passive grab (NEWHP: -13.5)	(92, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:30	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) grabbed TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) passive grab (NEWHP: 80)	(93, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:32	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) shoved Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) into Wally Walnut (NEWHP: -13.5)	(92, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:33	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) attacked TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with laceup shoes (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 80)	(94, 127, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:33	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) grabbed TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) passive grab (NEWHP: 80)	(95, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:35	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) passive grab (NEWHP: -13.5)	(94, 127, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:35	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) shoved TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) (NEWHP: 80)	(94, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:39	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -13.5)	(89, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:40	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) shoved Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) (NEWHP: -13.5)	(88, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:40	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) thrown Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) grab from tile in First Floor Fore Hallway (89,128,2) towards tile at First Floor Fore Hallway (85,128,2) (NEWHP: -13.5)	(89, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:40	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) has thrown Piper Gregory	(89, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:40	ATTACK	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) crashed into TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) (NEWHP: 70)	(90, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:42	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) passive grab (NEWHP: -21)	(90, 129, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:44	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) shoved Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) (NEWHP: 73.3)	(94, 129, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:45	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -21)	(97, 127, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:45	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) shoved Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) (NEWHP: -21)	(97, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:49	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) thrown Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) grab from tile in First Floor Fore Hallway (100,128,2) towards tile at First Floor Fore Hallway (94,128,2) (NEWHP: -21.7)	(100, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:49	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) has thrown Piper Gregory	(100, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:51	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) passive grab (NEWHP: -21.7)	(95, 127, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:56	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -21.7)	(89, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:56	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) attempted to inject Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) with the epinephrine medipen (Epinephrine, Formaldehyde and Sanguirite) (NEWHP: -21.7)	(90, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:56	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/epinephrine (10u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/toxin/formaldehyde (3u, 0.75 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/coagulant (2u, 1 purity)) from the epinephrine medipen to Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) (NEWHP: -21.7)	(90, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:56	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) injected Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) with the epinephrine medipen (Epinephrine, Formaldehyde and Sanguirite) (NEWHP: -21.7)	(90, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:59	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) shoved TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) (NEWHP: 70)	(89, 129, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:06	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway	(79, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:06	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway	(79, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:06	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway	(79, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:06	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway	(79, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:06	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway	(79, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:06	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway	(79, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:06	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 70)	(78, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:06	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 64.8)	(78, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:06	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 67.4)	(78, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:06	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 62.2)	(78, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:06	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 59.6)	(78, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:06	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 57)	(78, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:07	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway	(77, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:07	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 54.4)	(77, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:07	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway	(77, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:07	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 51.4)	(77, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:07	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway	(77, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:07	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) shot TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the rubbershot pellet (NEWHP: 48.4)	(77, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:07	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway	(77, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:07	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway	(77, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:07	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) fired at [floor] with the rubbershot pellet from First Floor Fore Hallway	(77, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:09	ATTACK	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) stun attacked TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 45.4)	(77, 134, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:12	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) is stripping Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) of the backpack.	(78, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:16	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) has stripped Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) of the backpack.	(78, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:22	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) shoved Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100)	(77, 134, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:23	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)	(77, 134, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:23	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) broke grab Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) (NEWHP: 100)	(77, 134, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:24	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)	(77, 134, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:24	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) broke grab Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) (NEWHP: 100)	(77, 134, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:28	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) shoved Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) (NEWHP: 73.3)	(77, 134, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:29	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) passive grab (NEWHP: -10.5)	(76, 134, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:31	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) attempted to inject Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) with the epinephrine medipen (Epinephrine, Formaldehyde and Sanguirite) (NEWHP: -10)	(77, 134, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:31	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/epinephrine (10u, 1 purity), /datum/reagent/toxin/formaldehyde (3u, 0.75 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/coagulant (2u, 1 purity)) from the epinephrine medipen to Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) (NEWHP: -10)	(77, 134, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:31	ATTACK	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) injected Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) with the epinephrine medipen (Epinephrine, Formaldehyde and Sanguirite) (NEWHP: -10)	(77, 134, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:33	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) is putting the backpack on Cormoche/(Piper Gregory)	(76, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:33	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) is putting the backpack on Cormoche/(Piper Gregory)	(76, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:36	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) has put the backpack on Cormoche/(Piper Gregory).	(76, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:02:09	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) grabbed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -2.6)	(76, 133, 3)	Second Floor Fore Hallway
10:02:38	ATTACK	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) slipped on the [floor]	(98, 129, 3)	Second Floor Fore Hallway
10:02:42	ATTACK	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) threw and hit Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) with the laceup shoes (NEWHP: 0.1)	(104, 128, 3)	Second Floor Fore Hallway
10:02:58	ATTACK	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) healed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) with emergency suture (NEWHP: 5.1)	(116, 126, 3)	Second Floor Fore Hallway
10:03:02	ATTACK	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) healed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) with emergency suture (NEWHP: 10.1)	(116, 126, 3)	Second Floor Fore Hallway
10:03:04	ATTACK	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) healed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) with emergency suture (NEWHP: 15.1)	(116, 126, 3)	Second Floor Fore Hallway
10:03:07	ATTACK	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) healed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) with emergency suture (NEWHP: 18.9)	(116, 126, 3)	Second Floor Fore Hallway
10:03:10	ATTACK	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) healed Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) with emergency suture (NEWHP: 22.7)	(116, 126, 3)	Second Floor Fore Hallway

Say logs:

Code: Select all

09:57:16	WHISPER	Failedthetutorial/(Victor Ordie) "fucking carps"	(78, 122, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
09:59:58	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "ah"	(117, 130, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:02	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "i need help"	(117, 130, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:09	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "the pen"	(117, 130, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:13	SAY	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) "food is food"	(116, 129, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:15	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "AH"	(108, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:17	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "NO"	(103, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:19	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "HEELP"	(95, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:26	SAY	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) "good"	(90, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:30	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "OW"	(91, 129, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:38	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "you know i'm dying right?"	(90, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:42	SAY	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) "guh"	(89, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:00:51	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "stop"	(94, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:03	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "STOP"	(83, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:04	SAY	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) "arrest"	(84, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:05	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "GELP ME"	(81, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:07	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "HEEELP"	(77, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:09	SAY	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) "they"	(76, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:10	SAY	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) "not shoot"	(79, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:10	SAY	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) "are dying"	(76, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:12	SAY	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) "you retard"	(76, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:16	SAY	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) "they"	(78, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:17	SAY	Sr_Soez/(Paul Eeya) "Its rubber"	(77, 134, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:18	SAY	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) "tried"	(78, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:20	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "tthe captain is also dangerous"	(77, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:22	SAY	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) "to take away"	(78, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:22	SAY	VedrickTelphecci3rd/(Arrald Shiplan) "whats going on here"	(80, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:24	SAY	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) "when I was"	(78, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:26	SAY	Bieyes/(Jalen Whiteman) "epi pen"	(77, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:34	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "captain... are you... dumb"	(76, 134, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:36	SAY	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) "dumbest captain"	(76, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:38	SAY	Stilth/(Clint Rockman) "the hell is this station"	(83, 133, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:45	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "don't eat me"	(71, 130, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:46	SAY	radioprague/(The spirit of Angry Stick) "can i do something funny?"	(85, 129, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:47	SAY	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) "which"	(70, 129, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:48	SAY	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) "floor"	(70, 129, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:50	SAY	Stilth/(Clint Rockman) "depends"	(88, 129, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:52	SAY	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) "is medical"	(73, 127, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:53	WHISPER	Cormoche/(Piper Gregory) "i don't know"	(73, 127, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:55	SAY	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) "just a heads up"	(73, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:01:58	SAY	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) "both the cap and sec"	(73, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:02:01	SAY	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) "are extremely retarded"	(73, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway
10:02:05	SAY	TypicalRig/(Wally Walnut) "so don't trust them to do anything"	(73, 128, 2)	First Floor Fore Hallway

[PengisBungholius]

The rubbershot shells and box of shells say nothing about them doing damage (it does 3 brute per pellet, which it shoots 6 of for a total of 18 brute damage max per shot),
"A shotgun casing filled with densely-packed rubber balls, used to incapacitate crowds from a distance."
"A box full of rubber shots, designed for riot shotguns."

[vect0r]

I can vouch for people not knowing the shells are not lethal. As an AI, people tell me how they are using rubbershots to take people down, and it is "not human harm".
I have to tell them how it does harm humans.

[Somepan]

Rubber pellets are definitely human harm. As long as something deals damage, it is human harm if used against humans.
I'm willing to concede that rubber pellets aren't "lethal" but they are clearly not on-par with non-lethal means of arrest like the stun baton or the disabler.
I'll gladly edit the note to reflect the fact that the rubber pellets aren't lethal but rather less-than-lethal, and still harmful, but the note is still pertinent even if the classification of rubber falls down from lethal to less-than-lethal.

[Misdoubtful]

While we certainly agree that yes, rubber shot does do damage - 3 brute per pellet - and 11 stamina per pellet - focusing on intentions is what matters most with this one, and we feel the intention was quickly stam critting and then batoning the other player for an arrest.

Could they have used a disabler? Yes. A baton? Yes. Bolas, pepperspray, a flashbang, dumping a fire extinguisher on a tile, you name it. There are always possibilities.

In the glaring instance here, during a very heat of moment fight: rubbershot was fired twice, then the other player was batoned twice, until the unfortunate and unpredictable ss13 moment of them getting eaten by a revenant occurred. That last part was completely out of anyone's control.

We feel its important to consider all of that in the context of the note. Death being uncontrollable, the specifics of what ammo was used and the context of how things went down painting a very different picture.

With all that being said we feel that a note wouldn't serve much purpose, and do not want to be dissuading people from using what they could assume to be non-lethal methods in heat of the moment fights. It is very reasonable for anyone to have looked at rubbershot in this instance and make the conclusion that it isn't going to do big damage, and also use it for self-protection and making an arrest here.

As such we will be removing this note.

---

Kieth4 and Timberpoes:

► Show Spoiler

I used the shotgun. You know why? Cause the shotgun doesn’t miss: and unlike the shitty hybrid taser it stops a criminal in their tracks in two hits. Bang: bang: and they’re fucking done.