In this thread we come up with ways to end racism

[dirk_mcblade]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I can't think of a better way to get back at a racist from something like two years ago than to break forum rules.

[Thranos]

MSO is literally a dumb chump stuck in the era of 2015 xbox live and people are giving him way too much credit because he's the one with the switch to turn the servers off while he screams "not real racism" over his right to call people the n word without others thinking he's a traschan man lmao

He dies on the hill of "this word is okay to say" but if I yell it at him in this thread I will be banned, this says a lot about society.

[Fren256]

MSO is literally a dumb chump stuck in the era of 2015 xbox live and people are giving him way too much credit because he's the one with the switch to turn the servers off while he screams "not real racism" over his right to call people the n word without others thinking he's a traschan man lmao

He dies on the hill of "this word is okay to say" but if I yell it at him in this thread I will be banned, this says a lot about society.

Don't say the C word or you'll get blacklisted

[iwishforducks]

MSO is literally a dumb chump stuck in the era of 2015 xbox live and people are giving him way too much credit because he's the one with the switch to turn the servers off while he screams "not real racism" over his right to call people the n word without others thinking he's a traschan man lmao

He dies on the hill of "this word is okay to say" but if I yell it at him in this thread I will be banned, this says a lot about society.

Don't say the C word or you'll get blacklisted

cracker?

[bastardblaster]

I don't think we should be racist

[Fren256]

MSO is literally a dumb chump stuck in the era of 2015 xbox live and people are giving him way too much credit because he's the one with the switch to turn the servers off while he screams "not real racism" over his right to call people the n word without others thinking he's a traschan man lmao

He dies on the hill of "this word is okay to say" but if I yell it at him in this thread I will be banned, this says a lot about society.

Don't say the C word or you'll get blacklisted

cracker?

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

[TheLoLSwat]

[words and images]

Calling a person a nigger because that person is black is bigotry. Calling a person a nigger ignoring the person's race is not bigotry.

i know its been a while but I need to hear your opinion ekat. If you call a random black person the n word without any actual racist intent (or in your words, just using the word), does that mean its not bigotry, as you were ignoring their race when you used the insult?


I only ask because of not just what i see in this thread, but this one too ---> viewtopic.php?f=83&t=33801

It's a word, not a magic spell - it only hurts you if you let it. It's no worse than any other spam.

First, that the word nigger was created to demean black people. This is false.

I really like how forgiving timber can be, and I try to also give the benefit of the doubt whenever I can, but when your very first interaction with Lisa Green is insisting she got a spraytan because... she looks like she has a spray tan (??) it's hard to keep giving that benefit

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

07:52:57 Ekaterina von Russland/(Marina Rudinova) "Lisa"
07:52:59 Ekaterina von Russland/(Marina Rudinova) "Did you get a spray tan?"
07:53:09 TheLoLSwat/(Lisa Green) "no?"
07:53:10 Ekaterina von Russland/(Marina Rudinova) "you look like you got a spray tan"
07:53:13 TheLoLSwat/(Lisa Green) "no?"
07:53:17 Ekaterina von Russland/(Marina Rudinova) "you've changed"

Lisa Green for reference

Spoiler:

[TheRex9001]

Stuff and logs

Could you post the logs of this round? I am sorta interested in what led to this conversation if anything at all.

[TheLoLSwat]

Stuff and logs

Could you post the logs of this round? I am sorta interested in what led to this conversation if anything at all.

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/200539

[ekaterina]

[words and images]

Calling a person a nigger because that person is black is bigotry. Calling a person a nigger ignoring the person's race is not bigotry.

i know its been a while but I need to hear your opinion ekat. If you call a random black person the n word without any actual racist intent (or in your words, just using the word), does that mean its not bigotry, as you were ignoring their race when you used the insult?

Obviously. You gave the answer in the question, you literally said there is no racist intent.

[waaa waaa you asked me if I got a spray tan after I changed my character's attributes to look like she got a spray tan waaa]

... and?

[Thranos]

... and?

Silence, mayo monkey. Nobody wants to see your Shitcurity Cringe Compilation signature, triple-posting MSO's ass parasite-ass ass anywhere, probably because all you do is try to get the most N-Words per thread by pretending you're only saying it fifteen fucktillion times per post "for the sake of the argument" or whatever the fuck else. The fact that the only two ways in life that you can feel power are hitting someone with a baton on an obscure internet game hosted on an even more obscure, outdated program, and by calling people racial slurs on the forums for it are pretty telling. I can already imagine your little basement goblin form jiggling with misplaced mirth as you lean in to look at your screen and pound some kind of pithy, slur-laced reply to this post with the posture of the world's most inbred vulture.

'Oh no', you'll whine, 'he called me a slur directly so it's a slur and not like the times I typed one', and then you'll craw further up MSO's ass and tickle his tonsils for attention.

I can't suggest what I'd like to suggest here, but I will advise that you attempt this exact line of 'debate' in real life, on the streets. It'll be enlightening. Please livestream it.

!	Message from: mso
	(User was warned for this post)

[ekaterina]

[actual violation of rule 11]

In before "user was banned for this post". The sheer projection in this comment is unbearably funny.

[dirk_mcblade]

[saprasam]

chill

[dirk_mcblade]

Arguably ban baiting too though

[ekaterina]

Arguably ban baiting too though

Ban baiting is when you do something intended to cause other people to do actions that will get them banned. He posted this completely unprompted.
Unless you mean he is the one banbaiting, trying to anger me into breaking the rules with his nonsense post, which is a possible intent - however, it had the opposite effect.

[AsbestosSniffer]

Mayo monkey's supposed to be an insult?

[dirk_mcblade]

Arguably ban baiting too though

Ban baiting is when you do something intended to cause other people to do actions that will get them banned. He posted this completely unprompted.
Unless you mean he is the one banbaiting, trying to anger me into breaking the rules with his nonsense post, which is a possible intent - however, it had the opposite effect.

I'm trying to understand what you were saying previously, were you making the argument that someone could use a slur that's directed at their target (ie the slur matches the race of that person), but if in their own mind they said the slur without taking the target's race into account it would not be racist?
How does that track? Doesn't that give every single person an out from being accused of being a racist by just saying they were ignoring race when they said it? Does the concept of racism therefore not exist in any provable form in your view of the world?

[TheLoLSwat]

... and?

Silence, mayo monkey. Nobody wants to see your Shitcurity Cringe Compilation signature, triple-posting MSO's ass parasite-ass ass anywhere, probably because all you do is try to get the most N-Words per thread by pretending you're only saying it fifteen fucktillion times per post "for the sake of the argument" or whatever the fuck else. The fact that the only two ways in life that you can feel power are hitting someone with a baton on an obscure internet game hosted on an even more obscure, outdated program, and by calling people racial slurs on the forums for it are pretty telling. I can already imagine your little basement goblin form jiggling with misplaced mirth as you lean in to look at your screen and pound some kind of pithy, slur-laced reply to this post with the posture of the world's most inbred vulture.

'Oh no', you'll whine, 'he called me a slur directly so it's a slur and not like the times I typed one', and then you'll craw further up MSO's ass and tickle his tonsils for attention.

I can't suggest what I'd like to suggest here, but I will advise that you attempt this exact line of 'debate' in real life, on the streets. It'll be enlightening. Please livestream it.

cook that fraud

[Thranos]

Mayo monkey's supposed to be an insult?

Only if you're a particularly thin skinned troglodyte, really.
Which people who feel the need to shit out the N word as much as possible generally are, as their only recourse for being bullied in school is to be an edgelord online.

[ekaterina]

Arguably ban baiting too though

Ban baiting is when you do something intended to cause other people to do actions that will get them banned. He posted this completely unprompted.
Unless you mean he is the one banbaiting, trying to anger me into breaking the rules with his nonsense post, which is a possible intent - however, it had the opposite effect.

I'm trying to understand what you were saying previously, were you making the argument that someone could use a slur that's directed at their target, but if in their own mind they said the slur without taking the target's race into account it would not be racist?

Yeah, obviously.
Let's break it down. To be racist is to discriminate against a person on account of that person's race.
If you call someone something while ignoring the person's race, it is physically and literally impossible for you to have been racist, as you were ignoring race, which is the opposite of discriminating on account of it.

[dirk_mcblade]

Arguably ban baiting too though

Ban baiting is when you do something intended to cause other people to do actions that will get them banned. He posted this completely unprompted.
Unless you mean he is the one banbaiting, trying to anger me into breaking the rules with his nonsense post, which is a possible intent - however, it had the opposite effect.

I'm trying to understand what you were saying previously, were you making the argument that someone could use a slur that's directed at their target, but if in their own mind they said the slur without taking the target's race into account it would not be racist?

Yeah, obviously.
Let's break it down. To be racist is to discriminate against a person on account of that person's race.
If you call someone something while ignoring the person's race, it is physically and literally impossible for you to have been racist, as you were ignoring race, which is the opposite of discriminating on account of it.

And it's equally possible according to your definition for virtually anyone to lie about not being racist. Somebody who is actually racist could tell you they're not racist, and you could just say yes, sure thing, without being able to consider any other evidence. Do you just take everyone at their word in all other facets of your life?

[dirk_mcblade]

Kind of weird seeing this perspective of just believing whatever someone tells you from an apparent sec main to be honest.

[ekaterina]

Arguably ban baiting too though

Ban baiting is when you do something intended to cause other people to do actions that will get them banned. He posted this completely unprompted.
Unless you mean he is the one banbaiting, trying to anger me into breaking the rules with his nonsense post, which is a possible intent - however, it had the opposite effect.

I'm trying to understand what you were saying previously, were you making the argument that someone could use a slur that's directed at their target, but if in their own mind they said the slur without taking the target's race into account it would not be racist?

Yeah, obviously.
Let's break it down. To be racist is to discriminate against a person on account of that person's race.
If you call someone something while ignoring the person's race, it is physically and literally impossible for you to have been racist, as you were ignoring race, which is the opposite of discriminating on account of it.

And it's equally possible according to your definition for virtually anyone to lie about not being racist. Somebody who is actually racist could tell you they're not racist, and you could just say yes, sure thing, without being able to consider any other evidence. Do you just take everyone at their word in all other facets of your life?

MSO has already stated he'd rather not ban racists than falsely ban non-racists. "Letting them slip through the cracks" is irrelevant.
Also you put words in my mouth in assuming the only way to tell whether someone's doing it because of race is to ask that person.
When it's only one person he insulted, you can't tell if it was because of race. When it's 20, what are the chances they all just happen to be of a particular race?

[dirk_mcblade]

MSO has already stated he'd rather not ban racists than falsely ban non-racists. "Letting them slip through the cracks" is irrelevant.

I'm not talking about server rules. I just think it's a strange, naive world view on your part to just believe people who are strongly incentivized to lie to you.
I'd also clarify that MSO's opinion as far as this is concerned is that he wants no false positives for an accusation. He specifically says calling an autistic person autistic would be a slur in his opinion. You seem to be saying it isn't a slur unless the person tells you specifically it is a slur or you have to gather a significant amount of information before making the conclusion that it is a slur.

[dirk_mcblade]

So a racist would have to insult someone of a particular race about 20 times in your presence before you'd feel secure to conclude they're a racist?

[BrolyButterfingers]

lmao that's not their actual position, it's just the most convenient one for them because they want to be able to say the word themselves.

[ekaterina]

So a racist would have to insult someone of a particular race about 20 times in your presence before you'd feel secure to conclude they're a racist?

That was an example. Any number is arbitrary. The higher it is, the greater the confidence with which you can make the assertion.
Finding out who's secretly racist and who isn't is not my job. I am not on the hunt. If there's no actual discrimination, I couldn't care less.

lmao that's not their actual position, it's just the most convenient one for them because they want to be able to say the word themselves.

The sheer arrogance in thinking you know other people's minds...

[dirk_mcblade]

lmao that's not their actual position, it's just the most convenient one for them because they want to be able to say the word themselves.

I don't necessarily believe them. I just think it's a viewpoint that doesn't make sense to me if sincere.

[BrolyButterfingers]

The sheer arrogance in thinking you know other people's minds...

The alternative is that you're actually so fucking stupid that there's a good chance you'd fail a turing test lmao

[ekaterina]

[hur dur everyone who disagrees with me or has an unusual opinion is stoooopid hur dur]

This conversation is over,

don't believe them

and don't refer to me as "they", those are not my pronouns.

edit: fixed quote links

[dirk_mcblade]

So a racist would have to insult someone of a particular race about 20 times in your presence before you'd feel secure to conclude they're a racist?

That was an example. Any number is arbitrary. The higher it is, the greater the confidence with which you can make the assertion.
Finding out who's secretly racist and who isn't is not my job. I am not on the hunt. If there's no actual discrimination, I couldn't care less.

But I don't really get how you can decide calling someone a slur to their face without regard for how the other person would interpret that would not be a fairly reliable tell that the person is racist. At the very minimum it's a huge degree of disrespect. Seems like your two options for someone using your "I'm not racist" defense is that they're a disingenuous racist, or a severely disrespectful autist unaware of how their actions are interpreted on a very fundamental level. Neither is a great look.

[ekaterina]

But I don't really get how you can decide calling someone a slur to their face without regard for how the other person would interpret that would not be a fairly reliable tell that the person is racist.

Racism is about your motive for your actions, not about how other people interpret them.

At the very minimum it's a huge degree of disrespect. Seems like your two options for someone using your "I'm not racist" defense is that they're a disingenuous racist, or a severely disrespectful autist unaware of how their actions are interpreted on a very fundamental level. Neither is a great look.

Of course insulting someone is disrespectful, but being disrespectful is not the same as being racist.
We are talking about hypothetical situations where a person's motives are known. Of course, in real life, you can't just read another person's mind, you have to make conclusions based on available evidence.

[dirk_mcblade]

and don't refer to me as "they", those are not my pronouns.

Fuck off. "They" is firmly established as the correct grammar for talking about someone of uncertain gender, and I haven't seen you so I don't know who or what you are. I don't use preferred pronouns. If someone broke into your house while you were gone you would say they. When someone is posting on the internet I can also say they.

[BrolyButterfingers]

Imagine thinking you get to choose when a conversation is over on a fucking forum lmao

Anyways ekaterina's position is literally just a convenience position so that they can remain comfortable saying the word themselves; the alternative is that they are (intentionally) so naive they respond to every scam text in earnest, and have invested in every money transfer inheritance liquidity email they've gotten.

Using a slur at a non-racially-relevant target doesn't actually make the usage of the term nonbigoted, you dumbasses. You're still employing the weight of the term's bigotry and offensiveness for shock value, otherwise you'd be using a different word.

[BrolyButterfingers]

The specific definition and history of insults is why they work as insults, it's why you don't generally call people a piano or a chalkboard when they do something fucking stupid. You're still employing the specific context and history of the word when you use it against a generic target.

[ekaterina]

Fuck off. "They" is firmly established as the correct grammar for talking about someone of uncertain gender, and I haven't seen you so I don't know who or what you are. I don't use preferred pronouns. If someone broke into your house while you were gone you would say they. When someone is posting on the internet I can also say they.

"I'm calling you pronouns you don't like because it's CORRECT GRAMMAR" is not an argument I expected to encounter here, kek.
In any case, I am not of uncertain gender, rendering your argument obsolete. https://www.google.com/search?q=ekaterina
Don't speak for me and what I would or wouldn't say. Unless I have reason to believe the person I'm talking about is a woman, I speak as if it were a man.

Imagine thinking you get to choose when a conversation is over on a fucking forum lmao

My conversation with you is over. That is what I meant, and I should've been clearer.
Obviously I don't get to stop you from conversing with other people, but I do get to stop you from conversing with me, by ignoring your further posts and the remaining half of this post.

[dirk_mcblade]

Fuck off. "They" is firmly established as the correct grammar for talking about someone of uncertain gender, and I haven't seen you so I don't know who or what you are. I don't use preferred pronouns. If someone broke into your house while you were gone you would say they. When someone is posting on the internet I can also say they.

"I'm calling you pronouns you don't like because it's CORRECT GRAMMAR" is not an argument I expected to encounter here, kek.
In any case, I am not of uncertain gender, rendering your argument obsolete. https://www.google.com/search?q=ekaterina
Don't speak for me and what I would or wouldn't say.

Well you'll be happy to know I'm not using your preferred pronouns not because it bothers you but because I don't care, so it's fine.
Not clicking that link either. Don't know, don't care.

[Armhulen]

[hur dur everyone who disagrees with me or has an unusual opinion is stoooopid hur dur]

This conversation is over,

don't believe them

and don't refer to me as "they", those are not my pronouns.

edit: fixed quote links

I recommend putting your pronouns in your signature if they're important to you, you can't expect people to follow them if you don't share them. That being said, they is an ungendered pronoun meant to be all encompassing and respectful so I don't see much reason to correct it

[ekaterina]

I recommend putting your pronouns in your signature if they're important to you, you can't expect people to follow them if you don't share them. That being said, they is an ungendered pronoun meant to be all encompassing and respectful so I don't see much reason to correct it

I refuse to become one of the "pronouns in bio" people >:(

[The Wrench]

I recommend putting your pronouns in your signature if they're important to you, you can't expect people to follow them if you don't share them. That being said, they is an ungendered pronoun meant to be all encompassing and respectful so I don't see much reason to correct it

I refuse to become one of the "pronouns in bio" people >:(

Then cope

[Thranos]

"I can and will say as many slurs as possible because I can, slurs are fine, stop being snowflakes"
"WTF don't call me they that's not my pronouns"
"I won't be a 'pronouns in bio' person though"

Mans out here picking and choosing positions and opinions solely based on what will allow them to be the most outraged and cause the most outrage in others.
I propose we simply call them "it", as is the tradition for horrid little toe-biting creatures.

[BeeSting12]

[hur dur everyone who disagrees with me or has an unusual opinion is stoooopid hur dur]

This conversation is over,

don't believe them

and don't refer to me as "they", those are not my pronouns.

edit: fixed quote links

I recommend putting your pronouns in your signature if they're important to you, you can't expect people to follow them if you don't share them. That being said, they is an ungendered pronoun meant to be all encompassing and respectful so I don't see much reason to correct it

i just use he/him since theres no girls on the internet.

[ekaterina]

"Nooooo how dare you be a person with nuanced opinions!11!11! You have to fit into my "generic right wing" or "generic left wing" boxes noooo1!1!!"

"picking and choosing positions" is exactly what you should be doing, not taking positions just because some people who have similar positions as you on other issues have certain positions on these issues.

[Fren256]

I say since we're allowed to say the L word, we should also be able to call humans "hrackers". It the only fair thing to do.

[ekaterina]

I say since we're allowed to say the L word, we should also be able to call humans "hrackers". It the only fair thing to do.

Yes, this is epic. Hrackers, liggers, maggots, felishits (genetrash, if you will), plasmemes and the one I usually don't even remember exists - what a crew.

[dirk_mcblade]

I say since we're allowed to say the L word, we should also be able to call humans "hrackers". It the only fair thing to do.

Hracker would be pretty funny.

[Armhulen]

[hur dur everyone who disagrees with me or has an unusual opinion is stoooopid hur dur]

This conversation is over,

don't believe them

and don't refer to me as "they", those are not my pronouns.

edit: fixed quote links

I recommend putting your pronouns in your signature if they're important to you, you can't expect people to follow them if you don't share them. That being said, they is an ungendered pronoun meant to be all encompassing and respectful so I don't see much reason to correct it

i just use he/him since theres no girls on the internet.

For me? I don't really care much. But I get that some other people will

[BONERMASTER]

Radical Idea: We don't try to come up with ways to hurt people that just want to enjoy the game that we are all playing together, and go touch grass for a bit!


With crazy regards
-BONERMASTER

[Chadley]

Bone is correct.

[AsbestosSniffer]

I live in a desert

[AlamoTurtle]

So a racist would have to insult someone of a particular race about 20 times in your presence before you'd feel secure to conclude they're a racist?

That was an example. Any number is arbitrary. The higher it is, the greater the confidence with which you can make the assertion.
Finding out who's secretly racist and who isn't is not my job. I am not on the hunt. If there's no actual discrimination, I couldn't care less.

lmao that's not their actual position, it's just the most convenient one for them because they want to be able to say the word themselves.

The sheer arrogance in thinking you know other people's minds...

Or, or... OR... Wild and hot take from me... We just don't use racial insults and slang and terminology which might hint towards racism or homophobia or any of that shit? People don't need to read your mind, and they're not arrogant for it. How you portray yourself is up to you, and if you portray yourself in a way that others are easy to jump to conclusions, you're more than likely doing something wrong, on the off chance the individual is just fragile. Like you said, "the higher it is, the greater the confidence with which you can make the assertion," so the more people you piss off, the easier it is to assume you're in the wrong. Either way, it's ridiculous to tell people they must read your mind and BELIEVE you when you're saying such controversial shit that you mean no harm, because "you don't know me, I know me, and I can assure you that I'm not bad, trust me. My only defense is is me, I said so, but you're ignorant and arrogant if you don't trust me." Before you know it, all those who harbor racist feelings will be wearing anti-telepathic tinfoil hats as a "fashion trend", lol.

It's much easier to defend your innocence by simply using a more creative insult or word than to use something so demeaning and harsh that is used in racist and homophobic communities daily, but that's just me. I can't read your mind and know whether you have the vocabulary built-up to come up with something else, so I'll just have to default to say that you have good intentions when you don't choose other words instead of pointed and targeted hateful slang, according to your philosophy of repetition.