[Pepsiman0] Bucovineanu - Nostalgia got the better of me

[Bucovineanu]

BYOND account: Bucovineanu
Character name: Bazzer Dan-Delion
Ban type: Server
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: made bcis that made a bunch of people across the station scream "[n word redacted out by me*]" on comms
Time ban was placed: 2021-08-08 16:40:10
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 167446
Your side of the story: Ban reason says it pretty clearly, though not completely. I made a brain circuit that would force people to repeatedly scream the slur on comms every time they heard it. At the time I didn't see this as an exploit (I do now, I would say) and I only saw it as somewhat disrupting comms (and at that, in a manner I believed could be remedied by people heading back to the BCI implanter and deimplanting it). This, according to the admin, caused lag for certain users, which I did not foresee. It is worth mentioning that for completeness the immediate ban reason needs to be mentioned alongside previous notes/incidents at the time, including a 7 day ban for burning down toxins as part of a protest after being killed and then beaten in escalation I did not believe was fair at the time and in general edging the line of self-antagging myself due to burnout at the time.
Why you think you should be unbanned: First of all, to get it out of the way - whether the bans were justified. Though I did not raise this at the time due to antipathies I had towards tg staff at the time**, I believe the bans (7 day & perma) were somewhat excessive, even though as they may have come from a progression. However, in all fairness, I've noted and accepted that there is a certain direction the tg community has decided to take that at the time I was running afoul of w/ regards to the then recent rule 11. I would thus like to accept that this may have been an aggravating factor in any consideration towards me at the time. Furthermore, I believe it bears mentioning that the 7 day ban was begotten in part due to my foul language towards the admin of the day.

In that sense, I would like to offer a branch of peace in the form of a promise to unconditionally abide, within the servers, by the mores of the tg community as they may be now and as they may change. While I cannot in good heart pretend that I fully agree with how things have evolved, it is my promise and my word that I will not cause any more of a ruckus on the topic of rules and community guidelines, nor flaunt them in protest.

As for why exactly I believe I should be unbanned. First of all, in my defense, while I was not a model player, I've always held that in my 500? hours of playing on tg, I have nearly always done my best to not break the rules (even when protesting rule 11), and that my failings in doing so have been only human. I've had a lot of beautiful experiences on tg and I believe I've contributed to the community, helped by teaching others obscure mechanics, and otherwise had a nice collaborative experience. This is not to say that I never powergamed (as a Terry player, it felt accepted to do so) or otherwise dragged down the game, merely that I believe that - in the net - it was a positive contribution on my part. And despite my position on rule 11, it frankly never came that I broke the rule on the tg SS13 servers. I would like to think that I am objective on this.
References of good conduct: I have played rather little since my ban, outside of being admin/maintainer on a server that some here may not like, which I will mention in the next section.
Anything else we should know: For a rather long period of time I have contributed to, played on and adminned for a server explicitly built to rival tg. At this moment, the server (Merchant) is largely dead. Perhaps it will seem weird but I believe my experience moderating and responding to ahelps there has made me a fair bit more empathetic with the admins of tg, despite any remaining differences in opinion.
To address my antipathies with tg staff: for a while I've held an idealized idea of /tg/ which does not match the intention and perhaps history of the place. I've come to accept that in terms of the desire of the tg community, the staff may have a right to steer it whichever way they please. In that sense I would like to apologize for my toxicity towards members of the staff, though I know it may never be reciprocated as such. Though it is not the subject of this permaban, I would also like to apologize for my adversarial behavior towards tg, as I may have gone too far. I would like to restate my intent to fully accept any rule changes and what the community finds acceptable from now on.
In the interest of full disclosure I will also mention I still have an outstanding discord ban. I will not be appealing it at this time. Additionally, I have a permaban on fulpstation dated 2022-03-08 caused by overescalation on my part, which was corroborated with the banbus perma to a permaban on first offense.

* I'll readd it if it's poor form; redacted it out of respect for the rules and direction tg has taken
** I would not like to lie in this even if it improved my chances of being approved; I rather prefer transparency and honesty.

Edit: Since there's some discussion putting up some reasonable points towards my actions leading to the permaban, I would like to address my original intent on creating the circuit (i.e.: was I intending to grief and lag the server) in the interest of completeness I'd like to remark that when I designed the circuit, I had tested it with a smaller number of people and it did not go in a loop; it was only when I made several more that it started looping and causing the lag. What I knew at the time is that circuits can't loop like this because they have a timer preventing text chat. What I did not know at the time is that there is a limited amount of messages that tcomms will accept in a given decisecond which meant any more than 5 to 10 messages would cause messages to be delayed to the next decisecond, eventually overcoming the timeout. As I've mentioned, I'm quite sorry it went that way and I apologize for taking actions leading to this turn of events.
Furthermore, I would like to point out that rules at the time cannot make this an instance of attempted banbait, as at the time the mere usage of the word was not yet a bannable offense per rule 11 (or indeed, by the current wording in a strict sense, it still wouldn't be - but it is my understanding by reading precedents that the desired outcome of the rule has been chiseled to mean something else)
I hope addressing these points isn't out of line with how appeals are to be done, I simply ended up reading the thread quoting this. No comment past that.

Edit^2: Armhulen, I've freely provided information in this appeal so that you and other admins may make a fully educated decision, as in the end it is your just right. I can only complain that this discussion in the 'peanut gallery' and my inability to defend myself towards the accusations of an admin except by awkward edits strikes me as a bit unfair, though it is fully within your right (beggars can't be choosers after all). I'd like to ask, though it may be too much, that if I am to be accused by admins of anything that it be done in this thread and not in another thread so that we can discuss this in a civil manner. Furthermore I want to point out once more that I intend to go beyond the rules in my behavior. Even if I have my ban lifted I would not be surprised or insulted if I had a permanent note left that ensured my strict adherence; I believe taking the time to manually write this much out should at least show you the good faith I have in making that assertion and that I do not come in with bad intentions.

Edit^3: If the first edit was not clear enough, as I've realized it may have not been in retrospect, I'd like to reiterate it was not my intent to cause looping spam, lag or otherwise to harm tgstation servers in making that circuit, and was not even in fact aware of the lag or harm at the time of my ban.

[Armhulen]

I'd like to ask, though it may be too much, that if I am to be accused by admins of anything that it be done in this thread and not in another thread so that we can discuss this in a civil manner.

The purpose of allowing those player club threads where people discuss the ban is for transparency on admin conduct in relations to whether bans are fair, whether the appeal is being handled properly, etc. This thread is for on topic discussion in regards to your current ban, between you, the banning admin, the headmins if they have input, and occasionally a helpful samaritan submitting relevant facts or logs that might help the appeal, without interjecting opinion. I can't hold the expectations for admins to post what they think about you in here except for pepsi themselves, because they're just as unrelated to the ban as the players also commenting.

[Bucovineanu]

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

[Pepsiman]

Hello there, i would like to start that your attempt at being honest is a good idea here, however i think i have to say that it doesn't change your actions or your current behavior.

I believe the bans (7 day & perma) were somewhat excessive, even though as they may have come from a progression.

I really dont know how you can say that they were "somewhat excessive" and "may have come from a progression" when the perma ban had nothing to do with your previous actions as the flooding the radio for everyone with "nigger" and lagging their client (even though you said wasnt intentional but is in no way seen like that from my perspective when i am adminning on terry and see that) is even worse than non-antag maxcapping the station or random murderbone which would also result in permanent ban on the spot for such disregard of the rules and the intention to just try to ruin the game which is based on player interactions mostly being restricted by written rules and not in game mechanics.

So yeah, the only question for you thats left is how will you really interact with the players and the admins if you were to be unbanned, because while you did try to make be clear about your past attitude towards admins and tg as whole and you said you were sorry but at the same time you still dont completely own to what you did and dont show a whole lot of self reflection because you still think " I believe the bans (7 day & perma) were somewhat excessive, even though as they may have come from a progression." but if you would actually try to change you wouldnt think that those bans were excessive, and you also censored the word because you either cant own up to it or boot licking since i dont remember a rule that says that you need to censor things especially when its in an appeal, all the while that was the word you made the bcis on radio which you also typed in all caps despite you typing it in almost 2 years ago.

[Bucovineanu]

I really dont know how you can say that they were "somewhat excessive" and "may have come from a progression" when the perma ban had nothing to do with your previous actions as the flooding the radio for everyone with "nigger" and lagging their client (even though you said wasnt intentional but is in no way seen like that from my perspective when i am adminning on terry and see that) is even worse than non-antag maxcapping the station or random murderbone which would also result in permanent ban on the spot for such disregard of the rules and the intention to just try to ruin the game which is based on player interactions mostly being restricted by written rules and not in game mechanics.

Of course, ignorantia non excusat, but I will reiterate that creating a lag machine was not at any point my intention. If I am unable to convince you of that then I am sorry, but I cannot in good mind lie about this. Should I have known better? Yes, and I've admitted as much. Should I have thought better than to create what even on its basis would have been a bit of a radio spammy contraption, outputting 13 lines for every interaction? I will admit that as well. Was it my intention for it to devolve into endless spam that makes the game unusable? No, I will not admit that, as it is simply not true.

I'll freely admit then, that no matter what I feel, it's reasonable when you put it in perspective that causing a lag machine (which again, I did not have any intention of creating nor did I even experience any of it) does sound like something worthy of a permabannable offense; I don't think it's much worth debating how much or how many players were affected, since in the end, the damage was done, whether I realized it or not. I will not lie to you that subjectively, it felt and still feels like the perma was an overreaction, considering the complete lack of intentionality on my part, which I maintain and will keep maintaining.

So yeah, the only question for you thats left is how will you really interact with the players and the admins if you were to be unbanned, because while you did try to make be clear about your past attitude towards admins and tg as whole and you said you were sorry but at the same time you still dont completely own to what you did and dont show a whole lot of self reflection because you still think " I believe the bans (7 day & perma) were somewhat excessive, even though as they may have come from a progression." but if you would actually try to change you wouldnt think that those bans were excessive, and you also censored the word because you either cant own up to it or boot licking since i dont remember a rule that says that you need to censor things especially when its in an appeal, all the while that was the word you made the bcis on radio which you also typed in all caps despite you typing it in almost 2 years ago.

I believe I've fully outlined my stated intention on how I want to interact with the players and admins going forward in my post already. Now, outside of [me engaging in] straight on mental dissonance, would you have preferred I lied and said I've completely changed my beliefs on the situation, I now believe everything is rosy etc etc? Would that not have been the real bootlicking? The truth is I still have my apprehensions towards the moderation style of /tg/; if having apprehensions towards the moderation style of tg after receiving a permaban and being honest about them is enough for the ban to be maintained, so be it. I've been completely honest with my intent on how intend to go forward with my behavior towards admins and other players, to be far more restrained and calm.

Again, if my intent in changing my behavior on the server, and in changing it towards admins and players, and my admission of wrongdoing (the gravity of which I am not disputing, rather disputing the punishment) are not sufficient, that's that. Even if I don't like certain aspects to the rules or the moderation practices, the core is - I've accepted them as such and intend to fully respect them on tg if I am unbanned. Even if I still have certain negative outlooks towards certain admins, no matter how those outlooks may have changed in nuance over time anyhow, I still intend to respect them and no longer lash out with a string of slurs ala the 7 day ban.

That's that. I assure you I have self reflected from time to time on the situations that led to those bans. My impression may have remained subjective since, as I remember, the one time I got to talk to you about it I was very rude about it. I'd like to apologize for that. Not that I suppose you will find that very sincere, since I have the feeling you are under the impression that what I'm saying is purely out of some desire to exonerate myself by bootlicking or whatever.

On censoring the word 'nigger' I'd just like to mention that I took the liberty of looking at the general view of the community on it on the forum and it seemed like a rather negative opinion of using it at all. I censored it in my OP out of deference, not "boot licking" as you put it. Also I think it's pretty obvious what the word is (i.e. I wasn't trying to minimize my actions), I find the 'owning up argument' odd in itself, unless owning up means I should fill my application with the n-word as well.

Just to address this for a final time

but if you would actually try to change you wouldnt think that those bans were excessive

I don't really believe this follows by necessity. Perhaps the problem is in perspective; if you think that, given my track record, I would have never changed my behavior or it would have been impossible for my behavior to change given anything short of a permanent ban. If I take that assertion for granted, it is easy to see how the ban was not in any way excessive. However, it is my subjective impression of myself that I am rather introspective and that I've changed my behavior many times after shorter bans and notes, even when I felt as though I was in any shape or form misjudged or some such I have tried to change my behavior. In which case the only remaining reason for a permaban, in my subjective opinion, is if you truly believe that it was my intent from the outset to disrupt the server. If that is not something I can convince you in any way, no matter how much I explain my thought process in actions leading to it, then that's that. So please excuse me if you disagree with the fact that I view the issue of whether the bans were excessive (an issue on views of how moderation should be achieved) as a different issue to whether or not my behavior has changed as a result of it.

[Vekter]

Of course, ignorantia non excusat, but I will reiterate that creating a lag machine was not at any point my intention. If I am unable to convince you of that then I am sorry, but I cannot in good mind lie about this. Should I have known better? Yes, and I've admitted as much. Should I have thought better than to create what even on its basis would have been a bit of a radio spammy contraption, outputting 13 lines for every interaction? I will admit that as well. Was it my intention for it to devolve into endless spam that makes the game unusable? No, I will not admit that, as it is simply not true.

Do you think that, had the server not lagged to hell, you still wouldn't have been banned for making a machine that spammed a slur more times than would ever be reasonable? The issue isn't just that you brought the server to a crawl, it's that you, at some point, completely threw any logical thought out and went with "Yeah, making a machine that spams 'nigger' a million times will be really funny".

[Bucovineanu]

Of course, ignorantia non excusat, but I will reiterate that creating a lag machine was not at any point my intention. If I am unable to convince you of that then I am sorry, but I cannot in good mind lie about this. Should I have known better? Yes, and I've admitted as much. Should I have thought better than to create what even on its basis would have been a bit of a radio spammy contraption, outputting 13 lines for every interaction? I will admit that as well. Was it my intention for it to devolve into endless spam that makes the game unusable? No, I will not admit that, as it is simply not true.

Do you think that, had the server not lagged to hell, you still wouldn't have been banned for making a machine that spammed a slur more times than would ever be reasonable? The issue isn't just that you brought the server to a crawl, it's that you, at some point, completely threw any logical thought out and went with "Yeah, making a machine that spams 'nigger' a million times will be really funny".

I want to point out once again that my original intent was not to make a machine that would endlessly spam the text chat. The amount of 'spam' (by size) that would have been created would at most have been comparable in size to breaking into the bridge and sending centcomm messages, or AIs with several extra laws stating their laws. This bears contrast with the actual result achieved - endless spam making the chat harder to use; I'd say that would still fall under 'making the game unusable', which once more, I want to reiterate, was not my intention. I'd say that if just the lag was removed from the incident - it would still be a completely bannable offense, and the same ban magnitude would have probably been dolled out.

It's also worth mentioning - as per some people pointing out - that forcing someone's character to say something they don't want can be seen as griefing and bothers those people. At the time my view of how LRP works on /tg/ was that this was a risk you accepted when playing; as I've noted in my OP, my purpose is to not follow this understanding of LRP and be more in line with what I see as the new status quo of tg, as I can see how this could be viewed as a Rule 1 violation.

Finally, on the note of purely forcing people to say 'nigger' on the radio, with the above rule 1 caveat ignored, I can see one rule that I 100% did run afoul of (but which I find is curiously ignored, in favor of things which I feel are rather more exonerating) - namely utilizing and propagating an exploit, i.e. the ability to use BCIs to force somebody to say things on the radio did not feel at the time as something intentional. I've looked through and it seems that as of yet this isn't fixed in the codebase - if it is in fact an exploit as I intuit perhaps a friendly PR would be in order. Needless to say I believe abusing exploits (which I could be argued to have done) is for good reason a bannable offense, regardless of whether I did it as a failure of rationality. Oh well.

So just to underline this - I've not disputed at any point the fact that a ban was given out, or even whether a long ban was warranted or not. Moreover, I've not written my opinion on the length of the ban as part of the appeal as a way to dispute the permaban being put in place in the first place, but rather as a matter of fact, completeness understanding of my view on it. As it seems it may have bearing - though negative - on my case, but I accept that as a consequences of it being purely a gesture of good faith.

[Pepsiman]

sorry for the long response, it wasn't an easy appeal for me due to the amount of the stuff you wrote but also your history but i do think that you made a good attempt to be sincere and show your willingness to accept the rules and to abide by them, so yeah this appeal is approved.