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viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33868in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
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- kinnebian
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- Striders13
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Honestly... I like what Linden is doing here. He's being a shitter but he's also accepting the consequences of his actions (he didn't even fight back when lynched!). I think it's a perfect example of a little gremlin that's nice to see once in a while, if only to get the satisfaction of lynching them. I played a round as security with them as assistant, and spent the entire round brigging them over and over again for various crimes. He carefully skirted the line of "too much grief" for it to be enjoyable experience.
As for the ban itself,
As for the ban itself,
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- dendydoom
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
the core of my sentiment is that it sets a poor standard for the RP server if we allow people to react to IC situations with OOCly motivated violence based on things like "shitter behaviour, now i kill u!" it shouldn't be up to players to decide when RP is in effect and when it isn't because something happened they don't like.iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:38 pm antags have a license to grief, non-antags do not have a license to grief. stealing someone’s shit not once but twice to purposefully fuck with them is very much “act like an antag, get treated like an antag” - you’ll notice that Baal didn’t ahelp until after the second thievery. you’re correct that stealing the toolbelt once doesn’t necessarily constitute antag behavior, it’s the fact that they came around a second time
if it was an IC situation, then their response should've been proportionate to the IC crimes committed and also motivated by IC desires - "i want my things back and i'm going to bloody the cretin that stole them from me" not "i must punish the shitter with murder". the way they chose to respond to those IC crimes broke escalation because they went above and beyond what was ICly necessary because they were motivated by OOC desires to see someone punished.
for everything else we're in absolute agreement. the thief was cringe and deserved a beatdown, but because of IC reasons, not because a player deemed their crimes did not warrant anything other than an OOCly motivated execution.
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
NSFW:
- EmpressMaia
- Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:22 pm
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Baal is a shithead but this was a fine conflict and didn't deserve a ban. Just tell baal to cool off, talk to the assistant about their behavior, then call it a day
- BONERMASTER
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
shut up.dendydoom wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:07 pmthe core of my sentiment is that it sets a poor standard for the RP server if we allow people to react to IC situations with OOCly motivated violence based on things like "shitter behaviour, now i kill u!" it shouldn't be up to players to decide when RP is in effect and when it isn't because something happened they don't like.iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:38 pm antags have a license to grief, non-antags do not have a license to grief. stealing someone’s shit not once but twice to purposefully fuck with them is very much “act like an antag, get treated like an antag” - you’ll notice that Baal didn’t ahelp until after the second thievery. you’re correct that stealing the toolbelt once doesn’t necessarily constitute antag behavior, it’s the fact that they came around a second time
if it was an IC situation, then their response should've been proportionate to the IC crimes committed and also motivated by IC desires - "i want my things back and i'm going to bloody the cretin that stole them from me" not "i must punish the shitter with murder". the way they chose to respond to those IC crimes broke escalation because they went above and beyond what was ICly necessary because they were motivated by OOC desires to see someone punished.
for everything else we're in absolute agreement. the thief was cringe and deserved a beatdown, but because of IC reasons, not because a player deemed their crimes did not warrant anything other than an OOCly motivated execution.
kill all assistants.
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- dendydoom
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
such power... such authority...BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:40 pm shut up.
kill all assistants.
With simple regards
-BONERMASTER
how could i have been so misguided? the assistant purge begins now.
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I guess you could call this an admin peanut response.
- Striders13
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
unfuckingbelievable
- Bawhoppennn
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Drag needs to take a chillpill, I know dealing with shitters is annoying but gosh
I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
- sinfulbliss
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
say gosh again.Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:33 pm Drag needs to take a chillpill, I know dealing with shitters is annoying but gosh
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
gorsh! lotta shitters, hyuck!
- Epoc
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
god manuel is so fucking lame
this is the second ban in the past few days where the person ahelping gets banned for slightly imperfect escalation
almost like the escalation policy is scuffed and a bad reason to give someone the dayban
this is the second ban in the past few days where the person ahelping gets banned for slightly imperfect escalation
almost like the escalation policy is scuffed and a bad reason to give someone the dayban
if you're gonna get this heated in the ticket, just don't take the ticketAlso I will slab you if you do not take that assistant to medbay, as it is part of our escalation policy.
- Epicgamer545
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Making conflict is good, however doing with with complete lack of justification repeatedly is, not fun. They should’ve been at least got told “hey, sometimes making conflict is cool if you roleplay, but if you don’t it’s just acting like a antag.” Yet Baal, who was wronged should have not resulted to a LRP mindset of “oh, this guy’s a antag, let me kill them even though I’m a regular person in society with no justification to do so!” and instead should have at least not killed him and actually talk.
Jesus, manuel players, you guys realize that it’s a MRP server, right? I know that it’s Manuel and it has it’s own way of working out, but, it’s starting to get on my nerves. In my opinion, at this point, people should be noted for using bad faith to not at least roleplay in some situations where it consult it, and, if it gets heavily off the rails, should be banned.
There’s two sides to the coin. We can organize Manuel to use a medium level of roleplay, or we can keep it as it is.
Jesus, manuel players, you guys realize that it’s a MRP server, right? I know that it’s Manuel and it has it’s own way of working out, but, it’s starting to get on my nerves. In my opinion, at this point, people should be noted for using bad faith to not at least roleplay in some situations where it consult it, and, if it gets heavily off the rails, should be banned.
There’s two sides to the coin. We can organize Manuel to use a medium level of roleplay, or we can keep it as it is.
Epicgamer545
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- sinfulbliss
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- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
The point IMO is to ensure everyone was playing within the rules. You can do that before or after the conflict, ahelping shouldn’t mean you have to hide in a locker and wait for the whole thing to be settled (which could take 20+ minutes).Drag wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:08 amAm I wrong for thinking that people who want admins to handle things should step back and let admins handle things? They gave an ahelp and then IMMEDIATELY beat the assistant into crit. What is the point of the admin team if it's just a fucking free for all? I was IN THE MIDDLE of checking antagonist status of everyone involved before responding.I really, really hate this mentality. If someone is griefing you and breaking rules, you CANNOT retaliate!
And where is the “RP mindset” in robbing someone of their ID and toolbelt while they’re being healed? Where was the roleplay there? Why are you so transfixed on the victim having to roleplay their ID being stolen when the nonantag thief wordlessly took it to begin with?Epicgamer545 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:01 pm Yet Baal, who was wronged should have not resulted to a LRP mindset of “oh, this guy’s a antag, let me kill them even though I’m a regular person in society with no justification to do so!” and instead should have at least not killed him and actually talk.
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- Epicgamer545
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
The beginning of my post addresses this.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:26 pmAnd where is the “RP mindset” in robbing someone of their ID and toolbelt while they’re being healed? Where was the roleplay there? Why are you so transfixed on the victim having to roleplay their ID being stolen when the nonantag thief wordlessly took it to begin with?Epicgamer545 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:01 pm Yet Baal, who was wronged should have not resulted to a LRP mindset of “oh, this guy’s a antag, let me kill them even though I’m a regular person in society with no justification to do so!” and instead should have at least not killed him and actually talk.
Using the argument “this guy did that, so I am morally allowed to do this” is a faulty argument. Breaking rule one because someone else is breaking rule one is pretty contrary. Both should’ve realized that MRP has the word “roleplay” in it and that’s that. I’m just adressing how both sides, both the guy who started this, and the victim, were wrong. Common sense is that, one, people shouldn’t wordlessly kill people for stealing a ID (because IDs are replaceable for one), but should be able to retaliate anyway because conflict is great and we should have more of it sometimes, and two, that you shouldn’t be a asshole just because you want to be a asshole (IE, stealing a ID with no ic justification).Epicgamer545 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:01 pm Making conflict is good, however doing with with complete lack of justification repeatedly is, not fun. They should’ve been at least got told “hey, sometimes making conflict is cool if you roleplay, but if you don’t it’s just acting like a antag.”
Epicgamer545
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
"He who acteth like a scoundrel, be treateth like a scoundrel."Epicgamer545 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:15 pm Using the argument “this guy did that, so I am morally allowed to do this” is a faulty argument. Breaking rule one because someone else is breaking rule one is pretty contrary. Both should’ve realized that MRP has the word “roleplay” in it and that’s that.
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
The argument on escalation policy continues to escalate
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- Maxipat
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
dendydoom wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:24 pmlabelling minor shithead behaviour as self-antagging [...]Global Escalation Policy wrote:If a conflict leads to violence and either participant is incapacitated, the standing participant is expected to make an effort to treat the other, unless they have reason to believe the other was an antagonist.
iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:38 pm antags have a license to grief, non-antags do not have a license to grief.
I've always played with assumption (someone correct me if im wrong) that stealing someone's ID is excessively interfering with their job, you could argue that a toolbelt for engineering constitutes this as well, so maybe he had some merit to thinking of him as antag. The assistant should be punished for griefing either ICly as it happened or OOCly anyways, though throwing his body under the tram tracks is maybe too farAlso Escalation policy wrote:As a non-antagonist you may begin conflict with another player with valid reason (refusal of critical services, belligerent attitude, etc) OR if it does not excessively interfere with their ability to do their job.]
- Timberpoes
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I think the note has merit based on throwing the player down the tram well instead of into medbay. I'm basically ignoring it for the moment, since it's a waste of time thinking about it beyond that.
How the ahelp got escalated into a ban is something I'm significantly more interested in, and something I intend to drill down to the brass tacks of.
How the ahelp got escalated into a ban is something I'm significantly more interested in, and something I intend to drill down to the brass tacks of.
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- Constellado
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Linden is fun keep him around.
- Archie700
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I don't think a joke would be appropriate given you literally witnessed him throwing the person down the well.Drag wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:30 am I can see where my words could be interpreted as firm, yes, but not hostile. My initial response started with a literal "please" and a half-baked joke. When a player tells me "they deserved it" that sets a tone for me that there's a level of OOC anger coming from the individual
A straight answer of "Please do not throw people down and walk away after you critted them, this is bad escalation and will be noted." would be better.
Though I don't think it would matter for Muffin's anger.
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Aside from the arguing over whether the admin or the player was more disrespectful in this admin disrespect ban, what I wanna know is who keeps arguing with someone who's malding in a ticket once you've made up your mind? You sure arent gonna convince THEM after telling them "Go appeal it on the forums". Close the ticket and dump that bucket of ice on them.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- sinfulbliss
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Cheeky, I like your style.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:55 am Aside from the arguing over whether the admin or the player was more disrespectful in this admin disrespect ban
I still want to know what it means to “slab” someone. Is it a term of endearment? A threat? A wrestling move? Something uncouth? I’ve no fucking idea.
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- CMDR_Gungnir
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Morgue slab.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:17 pmCheeky, I like your style.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:55 am Aside from the arguing over whether the admin or the player was more disrespectful in this admin disrespect ban
I still want to know what it means to “slab” someone. Is it a term of endearment? A threat? A wrestling move? Something uncouth? I’ve no fucking idea.
Or more likely, a typo for Slap.
- sinfulbliss
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
My brother in christ, this is quite literally the definition of escalation.Epicgamer545 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:15 pm Using the argument “this guy did that, so I am morally allowed to do this” is a faulty argument.
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- Drag
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Endearment, but I understand how it doesn't come off that way or is generally up to interpretationsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:17 pm I still want to know what it means to “slab” someone. Is it a term of endearment? A threat? A wrestling move? Something uncouth? I’ve no fucking idea.
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I mean that does seem to be what the thread bickering is aboutsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:17 pmCheeky, I like your style.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:55 am Aside from the arguing over whether the admin or the player was more disrespectful in this admin disrespect ban
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- iwishforducks
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
whatcha smoking on this blessed day of 4/20 to come up with this oneDrag wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 3:19 pmEndearment, but I understand how it doesn't come off that way or is generally up to interpretationsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:17 pm I still want to know what it means to “slab” someone. Is it a term of endearment? A threat? A wrestling move? Something uncouth? I’ve no fucking idea.
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)
- Epicgamer545
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I mean rule-wise, like in cases where y—sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 1:41 pmMy brother in christ, this is quite literally the definition of escalation.Epicgamer545 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:15 pm Using the argument “this guy did that, so I am morally allowed to do this” is a faulty argument.
OW GOD okay, okay I get itBONERMASTER The Great wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:39 pm "He who acteth like a scoundrel, be treateth like a scoundrel."
With ancient regards
-BONERMASTER
Epicgamer545
J. Howard, microcelebrity & ExOS
game admin - I am still a admin, please subject me to 4 hours of tickets
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- datorangebottle
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Alright, who implanted BONERMASTER with the voice of god, and when did he kill colossus?BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:39 pm"He who acteth like a scoundrel, be treateth like a scoundrel."Epicgamer545 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:15 pm Using the argument “this guy did that, so I am morally allowed to do this” is a faulty argument. Breaking rule one because someone else is breaking rule one is pretty contrary. Both should’ve realized that MRP has the word “roleplay” in it and that’s that.
With ancient regards
-BONERMASTER
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
- Drag
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Weed, mostly.iwishforducks wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:44 pmwhatcha smoking on this blessed day of 4/20 to come up with this oneDrag wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 3:19 pmEndearment, but I understand how it doesn't come off that way or is generally up to interpretationsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:17 pm I still want to know what it means to “slab” someone. Is it a term of endearment? A threat? A wrestling move? Something uncouth? I’ve no fucking idea.
- Epicgamer545
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Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I can agree admin help procedure could have started out better as well. Turns out there’s like three sides instead of two. But the thing is it would have not mattered because Muffin was pretty much going to be angry anyway.
Anyway, good peanut thread, but /how did this turn out as a ban if we are supposed to ignore people being mad in the first place/?
Anyways, still sticking to my point. Tools are replaceable, make new ones. IDs are replaceable, make new ones. So it’s not the end of the world if someone gets it. However, am I saying that you should not be escalating, right? No! Shove them into a wall, call security, and teach them a lesson, hell, I won’t care! But at least don’t just kill them wordlessly in the hallways. All that I’m saying is that take it creative at least and don’t let the anger go into ye head.
And, yeah, you can kill people if they escalate to it or they are doing it with no justification multiple times. Just don’t be the shitter in the first place and don’t jump to conclusions.
Anyway, good peanut thread, but /how did this turn out as a ban if we are supposed to ignore people being mad in the first place/?
Anyways, still sticking to my point. Tools are replaceable, make new ones. IDs are replaceable, make new ones. So it’s not the end of the world if someone gets it. However, am I saying that you should not be escalating, right? No! Shove them into a wall, call security, and teach them a lesson, hell, I won’t care! But at least don’t just kill them wordlessly in the hallways. All that I’m saying is that take it creative at least and don’t let the anger go into ye head.
And, yeah, you can kill people if they escalate to it or they are doing it with no justification multiple times. Just don’t be the shitter in the first place and don’t jump to conclusions.
Epicgamer545
J. Howard, microcelebrity & ExOS
game admin - I am still a admin, please subject me to 4 hours of tickets
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- Epoc
- Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:37 am
- Byond Username: Epoc
- Drag
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:16 am
- Byond Username: Thedragmeme
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Are you suggesting I should run ahelp responses through chatGPT? If so that frankly sounds hilarious and I wonder how long it would take people to notice.
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
- Byond Username: Dorsidwarf
- Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I bet we could get a pretty good set of results by giving it our rules then asking it for judgements, hmm....
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- TheLoLSwat
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:56 pm
- Byond Username: TheLoLSwat
- Location: Captain's Office
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
jeez, maybe admins should take a deep breath before starting tickets or something
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- BeeSting12
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:11 am
- Byond Username: BeeSting12
- Github Username: BeeSting12
- Location: 'Murica
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I don't quite see how threatening a player with a smite can ever be seen as nonaggressive. Unless you're good friends with the player in question I would avoid doing that.
- Timberpoes
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:54 pm
- Byond Username: Timberpoes
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Ultimately it's not the neutral, non-accusatory wording I have come to expect from our admin team and that a number of our new admin candidates are exemplifying through their excellent training. (The future is bright)
I'm just gonna crosslink the part in its entirety here, since there's no real secret about it even though it's in the admin-only forum section and it's something I point every new admin to during training.
Accusatory, check.
Non-neutral tone, check.
Drawn into an argument, check.
Ahelping player reacts poorly to all of the above, check and dayban.
I don't think this should have ended in a dayban, and I think there are issues with the admin-side handling of the ticket that resulted in the player being banned because of how the admin chose to handle the incident just as much as if not more than how the player did.
I'm just gonna crosslink the part in its entirety here, since there's no real secret about it even though it's in the admin-only forum section and it's something I point every new admin to during training.
Spoiler:
Non-neutral tone, check.
Drawn into an argument, check.
Ahelping player reacts poorly to all of the above, check and dayban.
I don't think this should have ended in a dayban, and I think there are issues with the admin-side handling of the ticket that resulted in the player being banned because of how the admin chose to handle the incident just as much as if not more than how the player did.
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- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
- Byond Username: SinfulBliss
- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Very big difference between an ahelper being mad because they were griefed, and the ahelper being mad because of how the admin handles the conversation. One is expected, the other messes up the ticket.
I'm not walking over to the HoPline with my tail between my legs and waiting for 10 minutes trying to get someone there because a random griefer decided to steal my ID.Epicgamer545 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:24 pmAnyways, still sticking to my point. Tools are replaceable, make new ones. IDs are replaceable, make new ones. So it’s not the end of the world if someone gets it. [...] But at least don’t just kill them wordlessly in the hallways.
[...]
Just don’t be the shitter in the first place and don’t jump to conclusions.
The random griefer that steals your ID is not entitled to roleplay before being killed.
The only conclusion to jump to when the random griefer steals your ID is that they're a random griefer.
If it sounds vindictive, it's because it is. People should get what they deserve... It's quite literally the fundamental principle that escalation tries to regulate: "people should get what they deserve" ~ "people deserve to be treated how they treat others" ~ "treat others like an antag, get treated like an antag" ~ "act like an antag get treated like an antag"
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- dendydoom
- In-Game Head Admin
- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:40 am
- Byond Username: Dendydoom
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
bro i thought us cringe manuel roleplayers were supposed to be the dramatic onessinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:04 am I'm not walking over to the HoPline with my tail between my legs and waiting for 10 minutes trying to get someone there because a random griefer decided to steal my ID.
The random griefer that steals your ID is not entitled to roleplay before being killed.
The only conclusion to jump to when the random griefer steals your ID is that they're a random griefer.
If it sounds vindictive, it's because it is. People should get what they deserve... It's quite literally the fundamental principle that escalation tries to regulate: "people should get what they deserve" ~ "people deserve to be treated how they treat others" ~ "treat others like an antag, get treated like an antag" ~ "act like an antag get treated like an antag"
no one is saying you can't beat 5 shades of piss out of the dude for randomly stealing your shit. the point is that if it's an IC situation, then you're supposed to react ICly, not declare NO, RP IS CANCELLED BECAUSE I DIDN'T LIKE THAT
throw in a few "and take that you cur! you rotten knave! you no-good dirty scoundrel!" between baseball bat hits to the head and you're good. that's roleplay. it's your character that's mad, not you as the player. it's your character that wants their things back, not you as the player.
manuel escalation policy literally says that if you pointlessly grief or annoy people and it's declared an IC issue because it's not breaking the rules then you're not allowed to retaliate lethally as the instigator when the wronged party inevitably turns up to stomp your head into the dirt. it says nothing about you not being allowed to lay the smackdown on them for being a jackass. just don't wordlessly throw their limp corpse into the undertram after telling an admin to fuck off in ahelps. this shit ain't hard.
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
NSFW:
- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
- Byond Username: SinfulBliss
- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
i’ve never seen so little said in so much text beforedendydoom wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:58 pmbro i thought us cringe manuel roleplayers were supposed to be the dramatic onessinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:04 am I'm not walking over to the HoPline with my tail between my legs and waiting for 10 minutes trying to get someone there because a random griefer decided to steal my ID.
The random griefer that steals your ID is not entitled to roleplay before being killed.
The only conclusion to jump to when the random griefer steals your ID is that they're a random griefer.
If it sounds vindictive, it's because it is. People should get what they deserve... It's quite literally the fundamental principle that escalation tries to regulate: "people should get what they deserve" ~ "people deserve to be treated how they treat others" ~ "treat others like an antag, get treated like an antag" ~ "act like an antag get treated like an antag"
no one is saying you can't beat 5 shades of piss out of the dude for randomly stealing your shit. the point is that if it's an IC situation, then you're supposed to react ICly, not declare NO, RP IS CANCELLED BECAUSE I DIDN'T LIKE THAT
throw in a few "and take that you cur! you rotten knave! you no-good dirty scoundrel!" between baseball bat hits to the head and you're good. that's roleplay. it's your character that's mad, not you as the player. it's your character that wants their things back, not you as the player.
manuel escalation policy literally says that if you pointlessly grief or annoy people and it's declared an IC issue because it's not breaking the rules then you're not allowed to retaliate lethally as the instigator when the wronged party inevitably turns up to stomp your head into the dirt. it says nothing about you not being allowed to lay the smackdown on them for being a jackass. just don't wordlessly throw their limp corpse into the undertram after telling an admin to fuck off in ahelps. this shit ain't hard.
you don’t have to throw in those dumb phrases while you retaliate if you don’t want. if someone takes your ID and runs off, i’m not sure you have to roleplay more than “hey fucker, you have my ID give it back” before beating the shit out of them and searching their bag
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- Epicgamer545
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:02 am
- Byond Username: Epicgamer545
- Location: Somewhere In Space, Probably
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
The thing is, in MRP, the abstract rule of “oh this guy is a antag” doesn’t exist. To your character, a “antag” isn’t a thing. The only thing that does exist is people doing stupid things, and in order to solve these things, you need to react ICly instead of treating them like a “antag”. That’s what MRP is. Things go hit the fan, but you’re still expected to use a level of roleplay instead of being focused on you, the player, rather than your character. Otherwise then what’s the point of adding “MRP” to the server name?sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:04 am If it sounds vindictive, it's because it is. People should get what they deserve... It's quite literally the fundamental principle that escalation tries to regulate: "people should get what they deserve" ~ "people deserve to be treated how they treat others" ~ "treat others like an antag, get treated like an antag" ~ "act like an antag get treated like an antag"
Yeah, sure, people have different ways how to roleplay, and your not expected to type a paragraph (not even I am), but your still expected to use a set minimum amount when playing on MRP. Otherwise when people get wronged instead they tend to switch from “character” mode to “player” mode and start hating on the character OOCly instead of ICly and it causes quite a mess.
Epicgamer545
J. Howard, microcelebrity & ExOS
game admin - I am still a admin, please subject me to 4 hours of tickets
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- dendydoom
- In-Game Head Admin
- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:40 am
- Byond Username: Dendydoom
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
aw come now, i saw you struggling and i put a lot of effort into breaking it down as simple as possible for you. it's ok that you still didn't manage to glean anything from itsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:25 pm i’ve never seen so little said in so much text before
you don’t have to throw in those dumb phrases while you retaliate if you don’t want. if someone takes your ID and runs off, i’m not sure you have to roleplay more than “hey fucker, you have my ID give it back” before beating the shit out of them and searching their bag
some people enjoy it when you put in a little bit of effort to add some sort of entertaining narrative to being mildly inconvenienced in a video game about being mildly inconvenienced. that's why there's a server for it. you should try it, you might like it more than beating your fists on the keyboard and cursing the entire lineage of the one who clicked on your imaginary ID card
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
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- Lacran
- Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:17 am
- Byond Username: Lacran
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
I really like drag, I think they are a great admin and all my interactions with them have been positive. Though if any admin started talking to me like that I'd pop a blood vessel, especially as the ahelper.
Something simple like "before I ask you more about linden could you take him to medbay, if he dies its going to make things a lot more complicated." Probably would've avoided this entire fiasco. You could still note them or whatever, but atleast get the full picture, make them feel heard. They came to the admins for help afterall.
If you're going immediately into threats and scolding a player who came to you for help, you're doing something wrong. Nobody would react to that in a constructive manner.
Something simple like "before I ask you more about linden could you take him to medbay, if he dies its going to make things a lot more complicated." Probably would've avoided this entire fiasco. You could still note them or whatever, but atleast get the full picture, make them feel heard. They came to the admins for help afterall.
If you're going immediately into threats and scolding a player who came to you for help, you're doing something wrong. Nobody would react to that in a constructive manner.
- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
- Byond Username: SinfulBliss
- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
it's fun sometimes sure, but it takes two to tango. you shouldn't be forced to RP with the person that just fucked you over, especially if they're playing in bad faith and not for the story of the round, sometimes it's better to respond with mechanicsdendydoom wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:23 pmaw come now, i saw you struggling and i put a lot of effort into breaking it down as simple as possible for you. it's ok that you still didn't manage to glean anything from itsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:25 pm i’ve never seen so little said in so much text before
you don’t have to throw in those dumb phrases while you retaliate if you don’t want. if someone takes your ID and runs off, i’m not sure you have to roleplay more than “hey fucker, you have my ID give it back” before beating the shit out of them and searching their bag
some people enjoy it when you put in a little bit of effort to add some sort of entertaining narrative to being mildly inconvenienced in a video game about being mildly inconvenienced. that's why there's a server for it. you should try it, you might like it more than beating your fists on the keyboard and cursing the entire lineage of the one who clicked on your imaginary ID card
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- iwishforducks
- Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:48 pm
- Byond Username: Iwishforducks
- Constellado
- Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:59 pm
- Byond Username: Constellado
- Location: The country that is missing on world maps.
Re: in this peanut we argue escalation policy again
Sounds like a great idea!
Imagine the peanut thread once somebody tries to appeal a ban written by chat gpt...
It would be so entertaining
probably a bad idea for you though?
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