Bottom post of the previous page:
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/75039Rip kilo, I never really liked you so #ripbozo
Bottom post of the previous page:
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/75039no, his statement doesnt fit your reality, so clearly it's wrong, amirite?oranges wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 12:08 amClearly reality disagrees with youBlueMemesauce wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:24 pm He wrote all of that just to give like a single actual argument. I already said this earlier in this thread, that is not enough of an argument to remove kilo specifically.
Yes, eob talks about this in the pr. It is literally 2 out of the 5 paragraphs in the pr body.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 12:39 am is there some kind of limit on maps we can have in rotation? why not just add birdshot in?
not everyone is in this community to code/map. it’s ok to be here just to play too. obviously there will be complaints and changes that players like or dislike. saying “cope and scroll twitter” is a completely useless response, why not try to engage with the feedback?san7890 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:54 pmthis entire game is random players with zero experience (other than general knowledge of how code works, artistic skills - nothing really specific to DM though) trying to make a difference, as such i do not understand your point what-so-ever. they actually realized they cared about something rather than rant about it in peanuts or whatever. it is not impractical or tedious at all because that is how literally everyone who contributes has started or will invariably end up. things will only happen of your volition if you choose to make it happen, that is the universal constant. otherwise you are left in the dust.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:46 pmthis is such an insanely tedious ask of someone who doesn’t even know how to map to begin with. map changes and “prove” them over several months? how do you even prove something to be “nonfunctional”? it’s not like things are just nonworking, it’s more like the design just lends itself to them breaking often or creating unpleasant game experiences for various reasons (atmos, powergrid, etc), and suggesting a random player make a PR to change the design (if they could even do that to begin with) is completely impracticalsan7890 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 9:27 pmi hope you understand that if you can prove that the core design is non-functional (probably after a few months) and demonstrate a better solution that it can be pre-empted.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 8:41 pm I'm current running off of the (pretty logical, imo) assumption that if I try to make changes to the map that conflict with its core design(being a barely functional derelict) they'll just get stopped. I'd rather not waste my time and effort on that.
PR justification is not some esoteric art either, you just need to show that you have thought about it or understand the game to a point where you understand that something is intuitively wrong and convince a maintainer (and more importantly: everyone else) that you're in the right. if they don't agree they're required to explain why. if your PR gets closed: you can try another way of balancing it, figure out a better way of proving your point to someone else in the future, or just move on with your life. play bloons or scroll twitter or something if you really can't tolerate a map man. the reason why i say "demonstrate impracticality" is because you are expected to defend your PR in some way, and if you start off strong, you'll end up strong. you can read more on this here https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... st-process and here https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... ur-changes
EDIT: I stumbled across this while reading older replies in coding general:
This was a while ago, but this is someone who I have never heard of putting in the time over something they care about and formatting their data to illustrate a point as to why they didn't agree with a PR. people care a lot about these things and are willing to go through tedium to prove a point.
I think you misunderstood me.san7890 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 9:27 pmi hope you understand that if you can prove that the core design is non-functional (probably after a few months) and demonstrate a better solution that it can be pre-empted. this is an open-source project and people do not retain final authority forever (their opinions will be held into account of course), but if a failing is demonstrated and acted upon i don't see why it should not be merged.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 8:41 pm I'm current running off of the (pretty logical, imo) assumption that if I try to make changes to the map that conflict with its core design(being a barely functional derelict) they'll just get stopped. I'd rather not waste my time and effort on that.
i.e.: northstar not having ruins by design is okay because ruins aren't a core function of the game (and should be de-emphasized). however not having features that you need to complete core functions of the base game in a map can be demonstrated to be a failing and should be acted upon.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
We do have a maximum amount of maps we can have in rotation because we have to maintain each map in rotationKendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 12:39 am is there some kind of limit on maps we can have in rotation? why not just add birdshot in?
Why not just remove it when it's not rotationable anymore?Armhulen wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 1:51 amWe do have a maximum amount of maps we can have in rotation because we have to maintain each map in rotationKendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 12:39 am is there some kind of limit on maps we can have in rotation? why not just add birdshot in?
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
yes, that is what having the rank of headcoder impliesKendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 12:40 amno, his statement doesnt fit your reality, so clearly it's wrong, amirite?oranges wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 12:08 amClearly reality disagrees with youBlueMemesauce wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:24 pm He wrote all of that just to give like a single actual argument. I already said this earlier in this thread, that is not enough of an argument to remove kilo specifically.
I think they're saying "why don't we just leave Kilo to rot until it stinks and then remove it"TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 2:34 am brother that sentence doesn't make any sense, are you talking about removing maps when they fall behind some versioning system, and then readding them when they're past it again?
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
Apparently the blob doing that is actually the intended gameplay because "If it's using Multi-Z, so should you" even though blob kinda hardcounters Multi-Z by instantly destroying anything dropped onto it.RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 7:01 am I feel like one of the few people that absolutely hate multi-z level stuff since it just makes makes maps more tedious to navigate, splits up the playerbase, and constantly leads to shit like on icebox where the blob 95% of the time sets up at atmos/lower science and takes out all the stairs.
wait really? what happens when it's done then?
Just an icebox issue in my experience, northstar has loads of ways to reach blobs no matter the z-level and tram has way more ladders and massive overhangsRedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 7:01 am I feel like one of the few people that absolutely hate multi-z level stuff since it just makes makes maps more tedious to navigate, splits up the playerbase, and constantly leads to shit like on icebox where the blob 95% of the time sets up at atmos/lower science and takes out all the stairs.
If we had some sort of mapping help team for features we would still have kilo……sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 8:16 amwait really? what happens when it's done then?
is there a possible world where we have like.. meta/delta/kilo/birdshot/northstar/tram? that would be kind of hilarious
we removed it for I think a year or so? because it had a real nasty crash bug linked to shuttle movement
WHAT
EOB wrote:As for why the decision was made to take Birdshot over Kilo, I believe it is better for us to have a map that has room to grow and an active creator
Is there something I'm missing here... Okand said he'd be free to add the new things that needed to be added.EOB wrote:the map has consistently proven to be problematic for new code additions due to its scale, and it receives little maintenance outside of the bare essentials as a result
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 12:23 pmEOB wrote:As for why the decision was made to take Birdshot over Kilo, I believe it is better for us to have a map that has room to grow and an active creatorIs there something I'm missing here... Okand said he'd be free to add the new things that needed to be added.EOB wrote:the map has consistently proven to be problematic for new code additions due to its scale, and it receives little maintenance outside of the bare essentials as a result
It's like downgrading from 1080p to 360p because 360p has "room to grow."
what map will multi Z kilo replace hmmmmmmm?MMMiracles wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 1:54 pmsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 12:23 pmEOB wrote:As for why the decision was made to take Birdshot over Kilo, I believe it is better for us to have a map that has room to grow and an active creatorIs there something I'm missing here... Okand said he'd be free to add the new things that needed to be added.EOB wrote:the map has consistently proven to be problematic for new code additions due to its scale, and it receives little maintenance outside of the bare essentials as a result
It's like downgrading from 1080p to 360p because 360p has "room to grow."
seems pretty explicit they meant "let old kilo die while i work on the multi-z version in my free time"
runtimesinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 1:57 pmwhat map will multi Z kilo replace hmmmmmmm?MMMiracles wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 1:54 pmsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 12:23 pmEOB wrote:As for why the decision was made to take Birdshot over Kilo, I believe it is better for us to have a map that has room to grow and an active creatorIs there something I'm missing here... Okand said he'd be free to add the new things that needed to be added.EOB wrote:the map has consistently proven to be problematic for new code additions due to its scale, and it receives little maintenance outside of the bare essentials as a result
It's like downgrading from 1080p to 360p because 360p has "room to grow."
seems pretty explicit they meant "let old kilo die while i work on the multi-z version in my free time"
OKAND said it not me, time to remove DeltaMMMiracles wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 1:54 pmsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 12:23 pmEOB wrote:As for why the decision was made to take Birdshot over Kilo, I believe it is better for us to have a map that has room to grow and an active creatorIs there something I'm missing here... Okand said he'd be free to add the new things that needed to be added.EOB wrote:the map has consistently proven to be problematic for new code additions due to its scale, and it receives little maintenance outside of the bare essentials as a result
It's like downgrading from 1080p to 360p because 360p has "room to grow."
seems pretty explicit they meant "let old kilo die while i work on the multi-z version in my free time"
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
Probbably birdshot, since it has all the same "difficult to keep maintained because its smaller than the game is designed for" problems as kilo so by the time Okand has a multi z kilostation ready (faaaar into the future) map devs will probbably have gotten bored/tired of it the same way they got bored/tired of current kilosinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 1:57 pmwhat map will multi Z kilo replace hmmmmmmm?MMMiracles wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 1:54 pmsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 12:23 pmEOB wrote:As for why the decision was made to take Birdshot over Kilo, I believe it is better for us to have a map that has room to grow and an active creatorIs there something I'm missing here... Okand said he'd be free to add the new things that needed to be added.EOB wrote:the map has consistently proven to be problematic for new code additions due to its scale, and it receives little maintenance outside of the bare essentials as a result
It's like downgrading from 1080p to 360p because 360p has "room to grow."
seems pretty explicit they meant "let old kilo die while i work on the multi-z version in my free time"
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
Dw I got u fam https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/75091
nice broThunder11 wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 3:18 pmDw I got u fam https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/75091
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