[<Vekter>] Thonk - Bar BSA Shenanigans

[Thonk]

BYOND account: Thonk
Character name: Kelly Harshman
Ban type: Note
Ban length: Note
Ban reason:
Time ban was placed: 2023-06-29 02:21:16
Server you were playing on when banned: Sybil
Round ID in which ban was placed: 209278

Your side of the story: After having already beat the Hierophant as an assistant and played Orion trail in the brig for a few minutes I was bored, and was looking for things to do when I managed to find a lone BSA crate being neglected in the hallway, and so I decided that placing the BSA in the bar funny because the bar was rather empty and the bartender was only able to serve the robots, and as far as I can remember I have never built one before, not to mention most of the time on Sybil the station objective is rarely (if ever) built, so i figured that since i have seen MULTIPLE BSA's constructed in hallways in MANY past rounds without issue, I thought it would be fine to put it in the bar, and it would bring people to visit the bar to come take a look at it, and it wouldn't be a problem, since it CAN'T EVEN be fired without having 2 heads of staff to Auth it, which invalidates the whole "left the controls for anybody to fire it", SO after having seen an (admittedly) haphazardly placed BSA, two heads WENT AND DECIDED TO GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to ARM IT, and FIRE IT, despite them being well aware of it's precarious location, while this was happening i was busy with other things in the round, and once i found out they ended up arming it and firing it straight through the station, I made my way to engineering to go print Atmos Firelock Projectors, and tried to make efforts to stop the breaches from spacing the entire station, by going around and placing them down.

Why you think you should be unbanned: after I built the BSA I wandered off to go grab some things, and in the time that I was gone the BSA stuff happened which means at no point did I ever ask them to arm it or fire it, they (the heads of staff) acted entirely alone in deciding to Arm it and start firing it, and after it happened I tried making efforts to fix the damage they caused from it, even if it was borderline futile

Anything else we should know: aside from the OTHER note I have from vekter I haven't been noted for anything else in about 2 years, also I like building things that benefit the station and crew (such as operating computers and surgery tables for med) and station objectives are just one of those things

[Archie700]

Transposed to here.

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/209 ... e=game.txt

Code: Select all

02:00:29	GAME	Overuseddart/(Barco Merg) triggered and Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) confirmed event Bluespace Artillery Unlock.	(132, 100, 2)	Research Director's Office
02:00:47	GAME	Explosion with size (3, 6, 12, 0) in (Space (21,42,2)). Possible cause: Bluespace Artillery. Last fingerprints: ttbu/(Tever Iuso).		
02:02:14	GAME	Explosion with size (3, 6, 12, 0) in (AI Upload Chamber (100,152,2)). Possible cause: Bluespace Artillery. Last fingerprints: randybucket/(Big Bongo).		
02:03:13	GAME	Explosion with size (3, 6, 12, 0) in (Lavaland Wastes (123,222,3)). Possible cause: Bluespace Artillery. Last fingerprints: randybucket/(Big Bongo).		
02:03:49	GAME	Explosion with size (3, 6, 12, 0) in (Captain's Quarters (121,135,2)). Possible cause: Bluespace Artillery. Last fingerprints: randybucket/(Big Bongo).		
02:05:02	GAME	Explosion with size (3, 6, 12, 0) in (Lavaland Wastes (119,215,3)). Possible cause: Bluespace Artillery. Last fingerprints: icymanipulation/(Summons-The-Wall).		
02:05:39	GAME	Explosion with size (3, 6, 12, 0) in (Lavaland Wastes (231,20,3)). Possible cause: Bluespace Artillery. Last fingerprints: icymanipulation/(Summons-The-Wall).

Note: No announcement was made prior to bluespace activation

[Vekter]

I'm not removing the note for reasons that I've already gone over in the peanut - I equate this to something like leaving a maxcap bomb out somewhere with the signaler nearby. Yes, the heads have to authorize using it, but (as became clear once I had a conversation with one of them) they have no obligation to actually find out where it's located before authorizing it. The RD even told me they wouldn't have done so if they knew where you'd built it. I did end up talking to both of them and handling the matter individually with them as well, given that they were in a position to also prevent this from happening.

The big issue here is that I really don't understand why you thought building it in a place where it would very clearly hit arrivals when fired was acceptable. The only reason you could give me at the time was because you thought it was funny, and I equated that to you acknowledging that you did it with the knowledge that it'd do so.

Other people breaking the rules has never been an excuse for you doing it as well. I don't really care how many times someone's built it in a hallway or even in the bar itself, it still shouldn't be done.

If the head admins feel the note's not fair then I have no issue with them removing it, but I'm not going to do so because I genuinely think we should be discouraging players building the giant, player-round-removing, station-slicing death beam in the middle of the station because it makes us giggle when it goes off and hits someone. I'm all for the kind of funny chaos that SS13 breeds at its core, but this feels less like that and more like someone doing something really, really dumb for very poorly thought-out reasons.

I expect that my fellow admins won't take this note into account for much aside from extremely similar situations, though I would be willing to make the note temporary if others feel that would be more fair.

[Thonk]

I'm not removing the note for reasons that I've already gone over in the peanut

Since you didn't feel the need to post them here I'll go over a few of your posts in the beanut thread, right here, for you, right now.

What's left out here is that they built the BSA in the bar on Meta facing west, meaning the beam fires out and hits people as they get off the arrivals shuttle. His reason for doing it sucked ("lol it's funny") and I punished him because he should

when I meant "it's funny" I was referring to having a BSA (a big huge gun that takes up half the screen) in the bar was funny

better sense than to build something that's going to cut a giant hole in the station somewhere that will not only cut the station in half but round remove people who literally just joined.

Again, I had no intention of getting the BSA armed or fired at any point, the fact 2 players have to go out of their way for is already something I have stated, aside from that arrivals was not something I had considered or let alone anything else beyond big gun placed in the bar = funny, & won't be an issue due to authentication.

The only thing I did wrong here was not also bonk the heads for unlocking it, but there's a potential argument that they didn't know he'd built it in the bar.

pay attention to timestamps, ToastGoat's comment in dchat verifies that at the time the BSA was in fact there at the time, leading to wawa (the captain) of the station to comment "nice" before going into the bar which at that point had the BSA in it, which is kind of hard to miss, which means that he was very well aware of where it was on the station (the bar), following this he immediately without hesitation goes to the bridge where he prompts another head of staff to swipe to unlock the BSA

Code: Select all

01:57:45	SAY	ToastGoats/(Paul Grumblestumpskin) (DEAD) "Oh god who built a bsa for anyone to use in bar"	(133, 133, 2)	Bar Lounge
01:58:20	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "nice"	(127, 131, 2)	Central Primary Hallway
01:58:27	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) coughs!	(137, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
01:58:30	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) coughs!	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
01:58:40	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "need"	(135, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
01:58:42	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "hold on"	(135, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
01:58:50	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) points at Bruce McAfee	(108, 137, 2)	Bridge
01:58:51	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) points at the floor	(108, 137, 2)	Bridge
01:58:51	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "waaaaaagh!!!" FORCED by brain damage	(108, 137, 2)	Bridge
01:58:51	EMOTE	BagpipeJogger/(Atlas RO) points at Wawa Benford	(106, 136, 2)	Bridge
01:58:52	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "you"	(108, 137, 2)	Bridge
01:58:54	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "unlock"	(108, 137, 2)	Bridge
01:58:58	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "bluespace gun"	(108, 137, 2)	Bridge
01:58:59	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) points at Keycard Authentication Device	(109, 137, 2)	Bridge
01:59:00	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) points at Keycard Authentication Device	(109, 137, 2)	Bridge
01:59:00	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) points at Keycard Authentication Device	(109, 137, 2)	Bridge
01:59:23	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "someone else swipe on the keycard"	(120, 135, 2)	Captain's Quarters
01:59:37	SAY	FREDTHE2ND/(Mirracle Harison) "wawa please do not nuke the station"	(92, 62, 2)	Chapel
01:59:47	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "swuipe"	(120, 135, 2)	Captain's Quarters
01:59:47	EMOTE	WXCirrus/(Checks-The-Vibes) points at Wawa Benford	(115, 130, 2)	Captain's Quarters
01:59:57	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "funny gun"	(120, 135, 2)	Captain's Quarters
02:00:01	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "bsa"	(120, 135, 2)	Captain's Quarters
02:00:04	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) coughs!	(120, 135, 2)	Captain's Quarters
02:00:14	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) coughs!	(120, 135, 2)	Captain's Quarters
02:00:24	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) coughs!	(120, 135, 2)	Captain's Quarters
02:00:24	SAY	Mystic_Midgit/(Bruce McAfee) "Wawa if you get the bluespace gun through any method I'm going to gun you down"	(105, 136, 2)	Bridge
02:00:29	GAME	Overuseddart/(Barco Merg) triggered and Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) confirmed event Bluespace Artillery Unlock.	(132, 100, 2)	Research Director's Office

The person who was actually responsible for pulling the trigger was an antagonist, they didn't do anything outside of expectation.

this is in fact patently false, I don't blame you if you took Archie's post as your proof, as sweet as it was for them to kindly lay out logs, they ended up posting the wrong kind of logging for this, as the ones they posted work off of the last person who touched it before firing which if you know how shitcode interfaces are, you'll know that's not a good idea, thankfully however there is proper logging for this exact thing (crazy I know).

Code: Select all

 02:00:47	GAME	RandyBucket/(Big Bongo) has launched an artillery strike targeting Space (21,42,2).	(137, 131, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:14	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting AI Upload Chamber (100,152,2).	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:13	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting Lavaland Wastes (123,222,3).	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:13	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting nonexistent location.	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:49	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting Captain's Quarters (121,135,2).	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:05:02	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting Lavaland Wastes (119,215,3).	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:05:39	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting Lavaland Wastes (231,20,3).	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge

with the proper logs you can clearly see the only 2 people responsible for the BSA firing were a Chef named Big Bongo, who was NOT an antag and has only ONE round on his scrubby, and the second person who fired the BSA and arguably spammed it was none other than the Captain Wawa (yet another non-antag) which is fully corroborated by his say logs

Code: Select all

 02:00:29	GAME	Overuseddart/(Barco Merg) triggered and Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) confirmed event Bluespace Artillery Unlock.	(132, 100, 2)	Research Director's Office
02:00:36	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) coughs!	(127, 132, 2)	Central Primary Hallway
02:00:42	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) coughs!	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:00:45	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "free"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:00:54	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "nice"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:00:57	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) points at �space	(131, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:00:59	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "moment"	(132, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:01:03	SAY	Mystic_Midgit/(Bruce McAfee) "We kil Wawa"	(105, 136, 2)	Bridge
02:01:09	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "FIRE!!"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:01:18	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "soon"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:01:21	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "rechargeing"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:01:26	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) drools.	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:01:28	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "this is so lame"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:01:35	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) drools.	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:01:35	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "wnat gun NOW!!"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:01:41	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "zzzzz"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:01:44	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) yawns.	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:01:49	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) yawns.	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:01:56	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) yawns.	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:06	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "whats enycrypted upload"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:09	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) drools.	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:09	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) yawns.	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:10	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "I wanna shoot it"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:13	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has aimed the artillery strike at /datum/component/gps.		
02:02:14	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting AI Upload Chamber (100,152,2).	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:24	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "sup"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:24	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) coughs!	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:27	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "A PIRATE APPEAR" FORCED by brain damage	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:30	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "thanks"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:36	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) coughs!	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:45	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "this gun is so cool"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:46	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) yawns.	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:57	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) yawns.	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:00	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) drools.	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:03	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) coughs!	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:12	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has aimed the artillery strike at /datum/component/gps.		
02:03:13	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting Lavaland Wastes (123,222,3).	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:13	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting nonexistent location.	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:16	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) coughs!	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:23	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "yea and?"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:29	SAY	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) "dont breath nerd"	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:34	EMOTE	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) coughs!	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:48	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has aimed the artillery strike at /datum/component/gps.		
02:03:49	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting Captain's Quarters (121,135,2).	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge 

I don't know about you but it speaks for itself, feel free to check out the logs for more.

The player knew about what it did and that's why they put it there, they explicitly told me they did it because they thought it would be funny.

again it was the BSA (big fuckhuge gun) being in the bar that was funny, if I wanted it to fire I would put it in an actually sane spot.

The ban has nothing to do with skill or being bad at the game, it has to do with doing something catastrophically stupid that got a bunch of people killed because you think it's funny.

idk man it seems to me like the ban was over a shitter that saw a BSA in a dangerous spot and immediately decided to go arm it and start firing it with zero fucks to everyone else (the captain) and i'm the one who ate a ban for it (just for building it) tbh I didn't care about the ban because I got some half-decent sleep that night, but I don't like have a gun to my head in the form of a triple exclamation note over something I had no control over (inb4 shouldn't have built it lul)

tldr: shitter saw BSA in bar and immediately went out of their way to arm it and start blowing up the station with it despite being a non-antag, and i'm somehow the one in trouble for it.

sidenote: this thread is my first few times posting on the forums if I fucked up any way, soz.... feel free to check through the logs yourself in case I accidentally fucked up something :)
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/209 ... e=game.txt

[Vekter]

Again, I had no intention of getting the BSA armed or fired at any point

Thonk, if you didn't intend for it to be fired, why the fuck did you build it in the first place?

Like all of your other logs are wonderful, thank you, I appreciate you putting effort into your appeal* but none of it changes the issue - you don't build something that is explicitly designed to put a massive hole in the station and blow shit up on the other end and then go OH NO I TOTALLY DIDN'T INTEND FOR THIS TO HAPPEN!!! when some idiot fires it.

If it makes you feel any better, yes, I did see that the captain used it a bunch of times and he was also banned.

this is in fact patently false, I don't blame you if you took Archie's post as your proof, as sweet as it was for them to kindly lay out logs, they ended up posting the wrong kind of logging for this, as the ones they posted work off of the last person who touched it before firing which if you know how shitcode interfaces are, you'll know that's not a good idea, thankfully however there is proper logging for this exact thing (crazy I know).

I explicitly watched the mime fire it, which was the shot that actually caused the person at arrivals to get gibbed. Shitcode or not, I can sit there and physically watch someone do something stupid and know it was them who did it. Even if I'm wrong about this, it STILL doesn't change the reason you were banned and given a note.

My main issue here is that you did the equivalent of putting a bunch of gorillas in a pen in the bar and leaving a toolbox nearby with a big sign that said "DO NOT BREAK GLASS " and are somehow shocked when someone breaks the glass and gets everyone killed.

Spoiler:

*This isn't sarcasm, I actually do appreciate it - there's a lot of people who would just demand a headmin review and put that effort on them to do the looking, you at least bothered to try and defend yourself.

[Thonk]

Again, I had no intention of getting the BSA armed or fired at any point

Thonk, if you didn't intend for it to be fired, why the fuck did you build it in the first place?

you know just building it completes the station objective right? I have seen enough BSAs firing in my time to just not care about wanting to see it fired, building it for the first time myself was neat though, I always wondered how such a big gun came out of a few boards, turns out the answer is with a big cloud of smoke. I don't see why you are trying so hard to make me out as a bad person for building something i've never built before, even if it was in an admittedly poor spot. especially when the only reason it ever even fired was because the captain decided to grievously self-antag by blowing up the station with it

[Vekter]

Again, I had no intention of getting the BSA armed or fired at any point

Thonk, if you didn't intend for it to be fired, why the fuck did you build it in the first place?

you know just building it completes the station objective right? I have seen enough BSAs firing in my time to just not care about wanting to see it fired, building it for the first time myself was neat though, I always wondered how such a big gun came out of a few boards, turns out the answer is with a big cloud of smoke. I don't see why you are trying so hard to make me out as a bad person for building something i've never built before, even if it was in an admittedly poor spot. especially when the only reason it ever even fired was because the captain decided to grievously self-antag by blowing up the station with it

The captain has literally nothing to do with why I gave you a note, stop bringing him up.

I don't think you're a bad person, but being a bad person isn't the only way to get a note. Doing really stupid shit can also get you one. If you wanted to complete the objective, that's fine and nobody will do anything to stop you, just put it somewhere that doesn't result in a giant breach in the station and a bunch of people dying. A lot of folks go down to public mining and build it there. I usually make an extra room off one of the solars and do that. There are way more reasonable places to put the BSA that don't result in a massive breach when it's fired.

[Vekter]

I'll be willing to remove the note if you can assure me you won't do this again as a non-antag. I'll take you at your word.

[Thonk]

A lot of folks go down to public mining and build it there.

i'll have to try that... I didn't know it worked down there but it sounds like it could be fun : )

I'll be willing to remove the note if you can assure me you won't do this again as a non-antag. I'll take you at your word.

I promise I won't do it again.

[Archie700]

this is in fact patently false, I don't blame you if you took Archie's post as your proof, as sweet as it was for them to kindly lay out logs, they ended up posting the wrong kind of logging for this, as the ones they posted work off of the last person who touched it before firing which if you know how shitcode interfaces are, you'll know that's not a good idea, thankfully however there is proper logging for this exact thing (crazy I know).

Code: Select all

 02:00:47	GAME	RandyBucket/(Big Bongo) has launched an artillery strike targeting Space (21,42,2).	(137, 131, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:02:14	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting AI Upload Chamber (100,152,2).	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:13	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting Lavaland Wastes (123,222,3).	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:13	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting nonexistent location.	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:03:49	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting Captain's Quarters (121,135,2).	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:05:02	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting Lavaland Wastes (119,215,3).	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge
02:05:39	GAME	Scissorbird/(Wawa Benford) has launched an artillery strike targeting Lavaland Wastes (231,20,3).	(136, 130, 2)	Bar Lounge

with the proper logs you can clearly see the only 2 people responsible for the BSA firing were a Chef named Big Bongo, who was NOT an antag and has only ONE round on his scrubby, and the second person who fired the BSA and arguably spammed it was none other than the Captain Wawa (yet another non-antag) which is fully corroborated by his say logs

My intent was never to show who did it, but to prove that you had nothing to do with the unlocking or firing itself.

That being said, that is a better log and I should look for that next time the BSA ever gets involved.

[Vekter]

I mean, I don't give a shit about the note as long as you understand not to do it again.

I deleted it.

[Thonk]

I really appreciate you removing the note honestly, but I am curious whether if it was really against the rules, so I’d like headmin review, if possible.

[Timberpoes]

The honest truth is that a player building something that another player uses to cause grief CAN cause the original builder to get into trouble.

It's not unique to the BSA, a common example is making a maxcap and leaving it in a populated area, then dropping the linked signaller infront of someone. They buzz the signaller for shits and giggles, they get warned not to buzz random signallers like that and the maxcap builder gets banned even though they didn't explode it.

However, if the maxcap builder was just carrying the maxcap, some random shitter robusts them and strips their backpack, gets the maxcap and explodes it? The random shitter gets banned and the maxcap builder probably lives to tell the tale another day.

Finally, if the maxcap builder is just wandering around with a maxcap in his hand, some random shitter notices it, shoves him into a wall, steals it, then explodes it? The random shitter gets banned and the maxcap builder may also get banned, or may get a lecture on securely protecting explosives and not carrying them around to openly in public.

Admins choosing to hold players accountable for the things they build or create being misused comes down a lot to common sense and who bears the responsibility for the final outcome.

The overarching purpose of this is balancing the reasonable expectation that players can make or build or do stuff assuming nobody else will break the rules - against the reality that our players often set up situations where the only possible outcome of the thing being used is grief, and that other players will absolutely take advantage of that to cause grief.

[Timberpoes]

Let me know if you have any other questions or if that doesn't make sense and you need it explaining in another way.