TypicalRig wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 9:29 pm
CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 6:35 pm
RR vs release from a 7 minute sentence is in absolutely no way a fair or good deal and thus there is absolutely zero fucking reason to believe anyone would ever be offering that when the rules generally say you have to act in good faith.
I think we just can't see eye to eye on this one as I think the very act of offering an alternative to a boring cell sentence where you just afk until release, even if a risky alternative, is in its self a good faith act. Neither of us can really prove the player's intent though, so really we are just going in circles.
Quite possibly! For me, the offering of it is a good thing, but a 50/50 that "tab out for 7 minutes and watch youtube" is instead "Tab out for 30-40 minutes until the round ends or you maybe get lucky on a midround" is so ludicrous that nobody would take that deal. That's why it doesn't feel so good faith to me. Especially since we have no way to know if he truly gave a 50/50, or just wanted to be able to execute someone. But he was pushing for it pretty hard.
Rig wrote:
CMDRstie wrote:
However, at the same time, it's a game (and improv session) that we're doing for fun. If we're RR'd, we're taken out of it, and we no longer get to participate. So we have the OOC metaprotections, we have the rules about antag goals being to make the round more fun/interesting for people, so that people can feel like they can say that "Yes, and" without having their time wasted.
I don't really agree that just because you die or are round removed that your time is wasted. We are storycrafters here, and sometimes a person's story meets a premature end. I won't go off on a SinfulBliss "RR is sacred" tangent, but I also don't think people should be that blatantly afraid of it. It would be nicer if dynamic was better at reintroducing people into the shifts like intended, though, but that's a seperate discussion and more of a code/config issue.
You're certainly correct! But as a storycrafter, if your story has to come to a premature end, you want it to continue the narrative in an interesting way, right? An antag killing them to gain more power certainly qualifies as that, even if I think it can be rather lame when it's just "unga unga me kill objective" personally; but does this? Everyone just kinda shrugged and went along with what the Captain said. It didn't create a narrative where the Captain is showing his tyrannical, insane side. It wouldn't have lead to a mutiny or rebellion. Even Sec, the only people who would've known, didn't try to undermine it by slipping the head to Medbay.
On the contrary, what benefit could they have added to the shift if they were revived later? What benefit to the story could their death have inspired then?
Rig wrote:
CMDRstie wrote:
But when the alternative "True RP" is that I say "no" do you know what the outcome is? Instead of going along with any gimmicks, I sit in my workstation. Bolt the doors down when any sign of danger happens and hide. I sit around and do absolutely nothing and roleplay with noone because I know that there's probably someone delusional and psychopathic on this station that they want to stab me because I said I didn't like their football team.
This seems like we are arguing two different things. What you are describing seems like an argument against heavy realism in RP, which I'm against. What I described is players refusing to take any risks and only going along with something when they think metaprotections are keeping them in the round. I guess there's a slight correlation between the two, but not that heavy of an overlap? I don't expect people to blatantly risk round removal and death every shift.
Let's say you're John Prisoner. You've got a relatively short, all things considered, prison sentence. But the Warden says if you guess whether the number he's thinking of is Odd or Even, you get to go free. If you guess wrong, he'll kill you. Let's assume for this example, that you are aware that Death means No More Life Ever.
The only way that you'd ever take that deal, is if you're some deranged nihilistic lunatic with no self-preservation instincts. Or maybe you have a really bad gambling problem, but we can honestly factor that in under the deranged.
Without factoring in the metaprotections, only a very specific type of person will take that deal. Only a very specific person will go along with the gimmick.
Now, let's say instead of killing you, he's going to break your ribs. You know this'll put you in the hospital for about...five to six months, and your prison sentence is seven months. In your time in the hospital, you may as well be in prison for all of the things you'll get to do, but you'll also be in extreme pain, because, y'know. You have broken ribs and it pierced your lung or something. Breathing is hard and it hurts.
There are suddenly a lot more people willing to take this deal. Someone who's been to prison, maybe, and doesn't want to go back. Someone who thinks they can take those 50/50 odds. Hey, maybe you'll be in pain, but hospital food's a lot nicer than prison food, and at least you'll have some cute nurses instead of prison guards who want to break your legs.
As you said, we're both largely in agreement, but we just disagree on the finer details. And I think that's okay, I think that's what separates MRP and LRP and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. On LRP everyone's characters are already basically deranged psychopaths with all of the tiding and toolboxing. So the willingness to go along with something like that despite knowing full well the outcome is most likely irreversible death is something that makes sense to a lot of the people and characters there. But because of the other restrictions with MRP, that type of character is a lot less common. Which means it's really the only way to get the gimmicks to function, y'know?
As an aside, unrelated to our conversation, something I find vaguely amusing will always be the people saying "RR is sacred so that death means something". With how easily and often you/people die, if every death was permanent it would lose the impact. But when RR is rare, THOSE deaths truly matter. They have meaning.