BYOND account: Wizenedlake
Character name: Leif Roberts
Ban type: Server Ban
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: As a revolutionary, set off explosives and fire grenades in an unrelated fashion, blowing and burning holes to space in aft corridor and departures, when asked why they did this they said "dunno". has already 2 bans in the last 50 hours for misuse of explosives, seems unable to change their pattern of behaviour so escalating to permaban.
Time ban was placed: 2023-06-29 19:52
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 209323
Your side of the story: I spawned into the round as an internal affairs agent and chaplain, and after acquiring null rod, armaments beacon etc. I went to med. In med I made two grenades which I later fitted with voice activators in case of my capture. I then spent time milling around the station looking for an opportunity to fulfill my objectives when I was flashed by a headrev. I then spent time looking around for sec, heads etc to kill without attracting attention. During this time I contracted magnitis and began dying and thought to myself 'fuck it, I didn't make those grenades for no reason so I may aswel be a good antag and throw them around before I die' which I then did.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I believe most of my incidents relating to this come from an honest misunderstanding of the rules around how revs work. I failed to educate myself on this in the past but now I have read the rules and guides and I understand that the team goals of revolutionaries overruled my personal objectives as an IA agent, and that revs don't follow the same "do whatever within rules and reason" that other antag types usually follow. I also understand that ignorance does not make me less responsible for my actions in the slightest, I just hope it provides some context for my actions. TG station is the only server I have really invested significant time into, I've brought a few friends into the community and TG has really raised me in terms of understanding and enjoying SS13. I have nothing to ask for but a reduced ban. I am very sorry to all the players in the rounds I have affected negatively, and the staff who have had to deal with my sorry ass.
Anything else we should know: My attitude during admin interactions has largely been very rude on my part, I have no excuse for this I can only give you my word that this shock to the system has improved my attitude, won't happen again.
[lain0] Wizenedlake - Permaban Appeal
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WineAllWine
- In-Game Admin Trainer
- Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:17 pm
- Byond Username: Wineallwine
- Location: LANDAN
Re: [lain0] Wizenedlake - Permaban Appeal
I'm a little confused as to how you think you'd manage to get away with changing the 3-> 2 in your note without anyone noticing. Consequently, I'm going to break admin best-conduct and reveal them: (EDIT: These are in reverse-history order: most recent is top)Wizenedlake wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 3:24 pm Ban reason: As a revolutionary, set off explosives and fire grenades in an unrelated fashion, blowing and burning holes to space in aft corridor and departures, when asked why they did this they said "dunno". has already 2 bans in the last 50 hours for misuse of explosives, seems unable to change their pattern of behaviour so escalating to permaban.
- As a nonantag threw a clf and n2o grenades in public without any other reason other then "captain bad" and "revenge revolt" after being demoted from secoff. Has a long history with abusing grenades as nonantag, I suggest you stop.
- As a non antagonist, primed and detonated a couple of grenades on the shuttle leading to multiple deaths. Disconnected immediately after before they could be contacted about events. Please file an appeal if you have anything to represent.
- Blew up on the shuttle post-revs as a former revolutionary, thinking that revolutionaries were still able to perform such a degree of antagonistic actions after the revolution ends. Only managed to confirm one kill in the blast, so it's just a day here. Understanding in ahelps.
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iain0
- In-Game Admin Trainer
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:23 pm
- Byond Username: Iain0
Re: [lain0] Wizenedlake - Permaban Appeal
Hi there,
Thanks for the appeal, got to say this one's a bit of an unusual case, you have a very intermittent play-time on TG (Scrubby) which isn't a bad thing but changes how some of this can be viewed.
Starting with your relevant TG record we have this:
Now, typically notes older than 6 months are just outright ignored, but whenever this is discussed as being an official hard policy for admins, I'll always push back a little, and you end up being one of those rare cases where calendar time and played time tell a very different story. On one hand these incidents are actually spread out over 18 months at this point. On the other hand these events have intervals of 13 hours, 6 hours and 14 hours between them in played time, thats actually 4 bomb related bans in the play time of 33 hours (over 18 months), giving you a bombing ban on average every 8 hours.
We then have the ticket its self where you don't really present yourself particularly seriously. Nothing here that I see as being rude and if thats some reference to previous history I am not aware of it nor plan to go looking, thats all fine, but you present yourself as having no idea why you're doing what you're doing and not even really defending yourself when I make the conversation serious.
This is definitely one of those tickets where I end up shaking my head as I press the button and wondering what was going on. I opened the ticket fully expecting something about the revs/traitors status, causing some ambiguity over what you were allowed to do, but you didn't present any of that reasoning, and even if you had, given the short history you've accumulated recently it still looks pretty suss.
Your sporadic playtime ends up being an interesting factor here, you have a fulp ban from late 2020/2021 that normally i'd pay no attention to, but again has this 'few months' between them which resemble the gaps here, and if you've a very casual relationship with the game where you come and go at whim then its possible that the previous bans haven't really settled home the point to you ; notes are the soft warnings and bans are the serious warnings, that lead to where you are now.
In your favour two of your notes are related to revolutionaries and you've written a pretty good paraphrasing of the way the tot/rev status interact and how revs play out generally as a team antagonist so that's good to see, however, confusion about revs only explains the first and last of your notes, in particular the other two are
* One 7 day ban by me for bombing the shuttle ; I recommended you appeal in that ban if you had anything to represent, and since that was never updated I guess that didn't happen, which means this is effectively on record as a "for no reason" griefing of the evac shuttle resulting in a number of deaths.
* One ban by kubisopplay for grenading over "captain bad". It's not particularly stated if there's any foundation to the "captain bad", which leads me to assume there isn't, and thus this note ends up reading like you conjured up an excuse to use your grenades.
Which then really just casts this latest event in poor light ; even if you had cited the revs/tot misunderstanding excuse at the time, which you didn't, the fact is you do already have a history of revs issues, AND a history that implies you just like blowing things up for either no reason or a poorly created reason, which is actually more what you represent in the ticket.
So, all said, two questions from me, along with anything else you wish to present in your defence:
1) Can you explain anything about those other two bombings that makes them out to be anything other than "for no reason"/opportunistic griefing?
2) Do you have any reasonable ammount of play time over the last year or two on any other servers that we take vouches from that could demonstrate a different history for you?
Thanks,
Thanks for the appeal, got to say this one's a bit of an unusual case, you have a very intermittent play-time on TG (Scrubby) which isn't a bad thing but changes how some of this can be viewed.
Starting with your relevant TG record we have this:
We then have the ticket its self where you don't really present yourself particularly seriously. Nothing here that I see as being rude and if thats some reference to previous history I am not aware of it nor plan to go looking, thats all fine, but you present yourself as having no idea why you're doing what you're doing and not even really defending yourself when I make the conversation serious.
Your sporadic playtime ends up being an interesting factor here, you have a fulp ban from late 2020/2021 that normally i'd pay no attention to, but again has this 'few months' between them which resemble the gaps here, and if you've a very casual relationship with the game where you come and go at whim then its possible that the previous bans haven't really settled home the point to you ; notes are the soft warnings and bans are the serious warnings, that lead to where you are now.
In your favour two of your notes are related to revolutionaries and you've written a pretty good paraphrasing of the way the tot/rev status interact and how revs play out generally as a team antagonist so that's good to see, however, confusion about revs only explains the first and last of your notes, in particular the other two are
* One 7 day ban by me for bombing the shuttle ; I recommended you appeal in that ban if you had anything to represent, and since that was never updated I guess that didn't happen, which means this is effectively on record as a "for no reason" griefing of the evac shuttle resulting in a number of deaths.
* One ban by kubisopplay for grenading over "captain bad". It's not particularly stated if there's any foundation to the "captain bad", which leads me to assume there isn't, and thus this note ends up reading like you conjured up an excuse to use your grenades.
Which then really just casts this latest event in poor light ; even if you had cited the revs/tot misunderstanding excuse at the time, which you didn't, the fact is you do already have a history of revs issues, AND a history that implies you just like blowing things up for either no reason or a poorly created reason, which is actually more what you represent in the ticket.
So, all said, two questions from me, along with anything else you wish to present in your defence:
1) Can you explain anything about those other two bombings that makes them out to be anything other than "for no reason"/opportunistic griefing?
2) Do you have any reasonable ammount of play time over the last year or two on any other servers that we take vouches from that could demonstrate a different history for you?
Thanks,
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Wizenedlake
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:44 pm
Re: [lain0] Wizenedlake - Permaban Appeal
First off replying to Wine, apologies for changing the 3 to a 2, that was a manual copying error.
And in reply to iani0:
I'm not very good with handling the confrontation of an admin message, and so find it very difficult to properly explain myself. I apologize for that. As for my other bans: When I blew up the shuttle I believe I was under the impressions that the round had ended (but I can't be 100% sure as it was a while ago). And as for the other one, I now understand that what I did was against several rules, and I probably did at the time aswel. I vaguely remember that I was demoted from secoff for what I perceived to be little reason so assumed that the captain was trying to reduce sec's capacity to fight antags etc. (but again can't be sure, long time ago). I'm not really sure what servers you take vouches from, the only other server I have decent time on is CM (just under 50 hours), but again I've got no clue weather that can help me.
I understand I've done alot wrong, and I apologize again.
And in reply to iani0:
I'm not very good with handling the confrontation of an admin message, and so find it very difficult to properly explain myself. I apologize for that. As for my other bans: When I blew up the shuttle I believe I was under the impressions that the round had ended (but I can't be 100% sure as it was a while ago). And as for the other one, I now understand that what I did was against several rules, and I probably did at the time aswel. I vaguely remember that I was demoted from secoff for what I perceived to be little reason so assumed that the captain was trying to reduce sec's capacity to fight antags etc. (but again can't be sure, long time ago). I'm not really sure what servers you take vouches from, the only other server I have decent time on is CM (just under 50 hours), but again I've got no clue weather that can help me.
I understand I've done alot wrong, and I apologize again.
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iain0
- In-Game Admin Trainer
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:23 pm
- Byond Username: Iain0
Re: [lain0] Wizenedlake - Permaban Appeal
Alright, I decided to put in some effort into number crunching (thanks to Riggle for LogBuddy and someone else for grep). I pulled the last 150 rounds of your logs from the servers and did a little search for "Explosion" or "has gained antag datum", this gives me a list of all your explosions, which seem to be something you figured out how to do in early 2022 as there's nothing bofore that point, and shows up periodic matches since then as expected.
This section is spoilered because its not relevant to my decision here, it just evidences my working, effectively here are the matches for explosions from you that are valid or already covered and thus I threw them out of my data set
And with all that data sorted into buckets, I have some left overs, which is ultimately what I'm looking for.
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/192 ... e=game.txt
Terry 192176 | [2022-10-11 19:51:18.365] GAME: Explosion with size (1, 3, 6, 0) in (Central Primary Hallway (122,144,2)). Possible cause: the chemical grenade. Last fingerprints: wizenedlake/(Leif Roberts).
You using a grenade during a nuclear assault, there appears to be no direct casualties other than yourself, this is /maybe/ okay, maybe dubious, depending on the impact it has on the crew overall (depressurising areas is more problematic for crew than for the nukies). Questionably bwoinkable, in isolation, perhaps not.
https://tgstation13.download/parsed-log ... nd-192031/
Terry 192031 | [2022-10-09 11:38:38.315] GAME: Explosion with size (0, 1, 3, 0) in (Bar Maintenance (103,118,2)). Possible cause: the chemical grenade. Last fingerprints: wizenedlake/(Leif Roberts).
Terry 192031 | [2022-10-09 11:38:38.610] GAME: Explosion with size (1, 3, 6, 0) in (Bar Maintenance (103,118,2)). Possible cause: the chemical grenade. Last fingerprints: wizenedlake/(Leif Roberts).
This seems to be you opportunistically detonating grenades after getting crushed by a vending machine:
The explosion, 1,3,6, will have breached the station to space and given the likely location in tight quarters in bar maintenance will likely have punctured the structure into nearby regions such as bar which will also start depressurising. This is just a straight up not okay use of explosives as a non antag ; this is a bwoink that you managed to avoid IMO. This also quite pointedly echoes the situation where I permabanned you where the explosive usage mostly seems to be a "I'm fucked, I'm going out with a bang" usage rather than any actual meaningful application (killing a vending machine is not enough justification).
https://tgstation13.download/parsed-log ... nd-188910/
Terry 188910 | [2022-08-20 18:16:56.949] GAME: Explosion with size (-1, -1, 2, 0) in (Emergency Shuttle (95,53,2)). Possible cause: the large firecracker. Last fingerprints: wizenedlake/(Leif Roberts).
I dunno what this one is about, some scuffle on the shuttle where you end up throwing a firecracker and injuring a couple of people? Neither of whom are anyone that you seem to be in combat with. Not hugely bwoinkable but one can ask why you're throwing explosives at the wrong people on a crowded shuttle. Notably this is the very round before you actually full on bomb the shuttle and earn the week ban.
https://tgstation13.download/parsed-log ... nd-187442/
Terry 187442 | [2022-07-28 15:19:42.281] GAME: Explosion with size (0, 1, 3, 0) in (Bar Lounge (132,133,2)). Possible cause: the small omega cannabis leaf rollie. Last fingerprints: wizenedlake/(Leif Roberts).
Terry 187442 | [2022-07-28 15:19:42.443] GAME: Explosion with size (1, 2, 4, 0) in (Bar Lounge (132,133,2)). Possible cause: the chemical grenade. Last fingerprints: wizenedlake/(Leif Roberts).
Seems to be you smoking an explosive cannabis thing, which apparently you were aware of but forgot. This part is likely note worthy as a "lesson learned" in its self, and perhaps whoever gave it to you earns a note too. Explosive cannabis is one of those learning experiences people tend to have to go through. That said it doesn't usually result in punching a 1/2/4 sized hole in the middle of bar and that is of course entirely down to you and carrying around your signature grenade. There's at least a note and question about taking due care if you're going to lug large scale explosives around the station, and probably a question of /why/ is a non antagonist lugging a large explosive around the station, to the bar? It's not like there's a lot of good use cases for such things as a non antagonist.
So, where does that leave us. I cited 33 hours since the first banning, played time wise, so in 33 hours you have managed to
* Commit 4 explosive offences that resulted in you getting banned
* Committed 1 potentially bannable explosive use (given you have a record) by blowing a hole in bar maintenance / probably bar etc over a vending machine
* One definately notable event with cannabis and an explosion in the bar ; not a high severity necessarily but certainly adds to this picture
* Two other minor events of attacking people on the shuttle with firecracker and blowing a hole in central hallways during nukies. These may or may not be note worthy.
So, all in all, 4 actual ban level events, 1 maybe banable given history, and 1-3 notable events. In 33 hours played.
The other strange angle to this appeal is real time calendar, these 33 hours are spread over 18 months, unusually sporadic as a play time, but even if I were to reduce your ban, where would I reduce it to? 1 month ban would be meaningless with your play time pattern. Even 3 months could easily be lost in the gaps between your visits. Six months might impact you once, and be the first time a ban actually hit a time range that disrupts your normal play routine. But you're already into having 4 (maybe 5) bans, we're not looking for a "mildly impactful" level of response here, thats what e.g. the day and week bans are supposed to be, and are for normal players. A year ban is perhaps the first time it becomes significantly meaningful for you.
And even then, will you change in a year? It's already been 18 months since the first ban and here we are.
I'm curious about other stats like what percentage of your rounds end up having explosions, antag or not, and so on, wether you build a grenade every single round regardless of whats going on, and other such things, but I feel like I've probably spent enough time on this appeal.
In summary, this ban is levied for the pattern of events largely, but I also find the specific bombing that caught my attention to bring down the permaban to be questionable ; you failed to specify any real defence and in my opinion the incident shares a marked similarity with the vending machine explosion you didn't get banned for where you're effectively "deathgasping" and throwing out all your grenades while you still can. (Team Fortress Classic anyone?)
Between the several instances of questionable behaviour evidenced in a relatively short played timeframe, and the questionable significance of standard length punishments to you, I've decided to decline this appeal and note that you may return in 1 year from the date of the permaban and make a new appeal, in the mean time please try play on other servers and accumulate a cleaner record so that they may provide some evidence you are capable of playing without such incidents (check with the server you elect as to wether they will provide vouch type information to TG, usually via 'hostbus' I believe).
If you disagree with my assessments you may elect to escalate this for headmin attention, otherwise see you in a year.
This section is spoilered because its not relevant to my decision here, it just evidences my working, effectively here are the matches for explosions from you that are valid or already covered and thus I threw them out of my data set
Spoiler:
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/192 ... e=game.txt
Terry 192176 | [2022-10-11 19:51:18.365] GAME: Explosion with size (1, 3, 6, 0) in (Central Primary Hallway (122,144,2)). Possible cause: the chemical grenade. Last fingerprints: wizenedlake/(Leif Roberts).
You using a grenade during a nuclear assault, there appears to be no direct casualties other than yourself, this is /maybe/ okay, maybe dubious, depending on the impact it has on the crew overall (depressurising areas is more problematic for crew than for the nukies). Questionably bwoinkable, in isolation, perhaps not.
https://tgstation13.download/parsed-log ... nd-192031/
Terry 192031 | [2022-10-09 11:38:38.315] GAME: Explosion with size (0, 1, 3, 0) in (Bar Maintenance (103,118,2)). Possible cause: the chemical grenade. Last fingerprints: wizenedlake/(Leif Roberts).
Terry 192031 | [2022-10-09 11:38:38.610] GAME: Explosion with size (1, 3, 6, 0) in (Bar Maintenance (103,118,2)). Possible cause: the chemical grenade. Last fingerprints: wizenedlake/(Leif Roberts).
This seems to be you opportunistically detonating grenades after getting crushed by a vending machine:
Spoiler:
https://tgstation13.download/parsed-log ... nd-188910/
Terry 188910 | [2022-08-20 18:16:56.949] GAME: Explosion with size (-1, -1, 2, 0) in (Emergency Shuttle (95,53,2)). Possible cause: the large firecracker. Last fingerprints: wizenedlake/(Leif Roberts).
I dunno what this one is about, some scuffle on the shuttle where you end up throwing a firecracker and injuring a couple of people? Neither of whom are anyone that you seem to be in combat with. Not hugely bwoinkable but one can ask why you're throwing explosives at the wrong people on a crowded shuttle. Notably this is the very round before you actually full on bomb the shuttle and earn the week ban.
Spoiler:
Terry 187442 | [2022-07-28 15:19:42.281] GAME: Explosion with size (0, 1, 3, 0) in (Bar Lounge (132,133,2)). Possible cause: the small omega cannabis leaf rollie. Last fingerprints: wizenedlake/(Leif Roberts).
Terry 187442 | [2022-07-28 15:19:42.443] GAME: Explosion with size (1, 2, 4, 0) in (Bar Lounge (132,133,2)). Possible cause: the chemical grenade. Last fingerprints: wizenedlake/(Leif Roberts).
Seems to be you smoking an explosive cannabis thing, which apparently you were aware of but forgot. This part is likely note worthy as a "lesson learned" in its self, and perhaps whoever gave it to you earns a note too. Explosive cannabis is one of those learning experiences people tend to have to go through. That said it doesn't usually result in punching a 1/2/4 sized hole in the middle of bar and that is of course entirely down to you and carrying around your signature grenade. There's at least a note and question about taking due care if you're going to lug large scale explosives around the station, and probably a question of /why/ is a non antagonist lugging a large explosive around the station, to the bar? It's not like there's a lot of good use cases for such things as a non antagonist.
Spoiler:
So, where does that leave us. I cited 33 hours since the first banning, played time wise, so in 33 hours you have managed to
* Commit 4 explosive offences that resulted in you getting banned
* Committed 1 potentially bannable explosive use (given you have a record) by blowing a hole in bar maintenance / probably bar etc over a vending machine
* One definately notable event with cannabis and an explosion in the bar ; not a high severity necessarily but certainly adds to this picture
* Two other minor events of attacking people on the shuttle with firecracker and blowing a hole in central hallways during nukies. These may or may not be note worthy.
So, all in all, 4 actual ban level events, 1 maybe banable given history, and 1-3 notable events. In 33 hours played.
The other strange angle to this appeal is real time calendar, these 33 hours are spread over 18 months, unusually sporadic as a play time, but even if I were to reduce your ban, where would I reduce it to? 1 month ban would be meaningless with your play time pattern. Even 3 months could easily be lost in the gaps between your visits. Six months might impact you once, and be the first time a ban actually hit a time range that disrupts your normal play routine. But you're already into having 4 (maybe 5) bans, we're not looking for a "mildly impactful" level of response here, thats what e.g. the day and week bans are supposed to be, and are for normal players. A year ban is perhaps the first time it becomes significantly meaningful for you.
And even then, will you change in a year? It's already been 18 months since the first ban and here we are.
I'm curious about other stats like what percentage of your rounds end up having explosions, antag or not, and so on, wether you build a grenade every single round regardless of whats going on, and other such things, but I feel like I've probably spent enough time on this appeal.
In summary, this ban is levied for the pattern of events largely, but I also find the specific bombing that caught my attention to bring down the permaban to be questionable ; you failed to specify any real defence and in my opinion the incident shares a marked similarity with the vending machine explosion you didn't get banned for where you're effectively "deathgasping" and throwing out all your grenades while you still can. (Team Fortress Classic anyone?)
Between the several instances of questionable behaviour evidenced in a relatively short played timeframe, and the questionable significance of standard length punishments to you, I've decided to decline this appeal and note that you may return in 1 year from the date of the permaban and make a new appeal, in the mean time please try play on other servers and accumulate a cleaner record so that they may provide some evidence you are capable of playing without such incidents (check with the server you elect as to wether they will provide vouch type information to TG, usually via 'hostbus' I believe).
If you disagree with my assessments you may elect to escalate this for headmin attention, otherwise see you in a year.
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iain0
- In-Game Admin Trainer
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:23 pm
- Byond Username: Iain0
Re: [lain0] Wizenedlake - Permaban Appeal
Hi there, not heard anything further in a week, so I'll be closing this out in a few days time if you have nothing further to add.
Thanks.
Thanks.
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