[Atlanta-ned] DevinXoptoh, Role ban appeal

[DevinXoptoh]

BYOND account: DevinXoptoh
Character name: Ava Kinsley
Ban type: Roles
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Banned from Roles: Captain, Head of Personnel, Quartermaster, Chief Medical Officer, Research Director, Head of Security, Scientist, Roboticist, Geneticist permanently - As the RD, ran around with a health sensor tied to a maxcap. Despite this, put themselves in a situation where poor escalation lead to their bomb going off. This is a ban to hopefully help them learn to be more responsible in sensitive roles like command & science
Time ban was placed: 2023-07-06 01:27:56
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 209705
Your side of the story:
Round was quite a calm and chill shift, untill abductors started hitting the station quite hard. Props to the abductors as they were extremely effective at well, their antag role. During this time I made a TTV bomb and shoved it in my bag of holding with a health sensor attatched toggle to "death", my plan was if I got caught, during surgery if I went into crit, Id succumb and it would take out the abductors. Security was unable to handle them as they would seal the rooms they attacked.
The abductors didnt get me, but roughly twenty minutes later, an announcement got sent stating that a resonance cascade was in effect.
For the staff who do not understand how the resonance cascade works, it requires the engine to either be touched by a traitor with a final objective, or the SM have the gas mix of 40% Hypernob and 40% Anti nob.
Obviously command panicked once I told them its a resonance cascade. The shuttle was called, Red alert was announced.
I then heard that "the captain approved it" meaning... its clearly something... sorted right? So I check NT CIMS in the bridge, I notice that the engine is, completely stable apart from the gas mix, and dropping at roughly 1% every five minutes. Meaning it could easily be saved if it dropped faster.
I recall the shuttle, as a head of staff, which is... NOT agaisnt the rules. I was about to make an announcement as the captain had left the comms console logged in (condom) stating that the SM was safe and actually under complete control.
The hop RUSHES in, wordlessly tackles me, table slams me to near crit, during this I go "Dont fucking kill me ill blow up" clearly stating that I have the TTV on me and armed.
Earlier in the round I had lost my Tbaton. Meaning I could not use a tbaton on him, or a flash as for some reason he was wearing sec huds. After the hop threw me to the side, I got up, shot him with a mosin, which barely does any damage.
I go to WALK out of the bridge after calling him an asshole or something along that line, and he proceeds to ABSOLUTELY blast me with his Egun. Which was recently buffed by the way. Killing me.

Death means the bomb goes off, you know, the bomb I warned him about? blowing up me, the bridge, the hop and the captain. Which was NOT my intention.
Why you think you should be unbanned: The ban message states that "I put themselves in a siutuation where poor escalation lead to their bomb going off" How did I know the hop was going to absolutely melt my face off after I warned him about the bomb? I recalled the shuttle and was MID announcement typing when they just, zerg rushed me with absolutely no interaction or "Why did you recall"

[Vekter]

my plan was if I got caught, during surgery if I went into crit, Id succumb and it would take out the abductors.

Abductors wouldn't crit you, if they did we would need to talk to them about it. There should be zero reason you are crit by an abductor unless they absolutely have to kill you to survive, and even then they have multiple tools to prevent that.

[DevinXoptoh]

my plan was if I got caught, during surgery if I went into crit, Id succumb and it would take out the abductors.

Abductors wouldn't crit you, if they did we would need to talk to them about it. There should be zero reason you are crit by an abductor unless they absolutely have to kill you to survive, and even then they have multiple tools to prevent that.

And I was completely unaware that this was the case and it was a poor choice on my behalf. I was used to surgery putting you into crit/near crit when the saw step is complete on the chest/head

[Atlanta-Ned]

Thank you for appealing this ban. To save yourself and everyone else some time, I do not plan to lift it. Countless words have been written about this incident over the last few days, both in #admin-bus and in the #help-ticket thread you requested. The consensus, from every admin that's weighed in is that you were 100% in the wrong.

abductors started hitting the station quite hard. Props to the abductors as they were extremely effective at well, their antag role. During this time I made a TTV bomb and shoved it in my bag of holding with a health sensor attatched toggle to "death", my plan was if I got caught, during surgery if I went into crit, Id succumb and it would take out the abductors.

This, in and of itself, is such fucking trash that I had I known about it beforehand, would have earned you this exact same ban. This playstyle is not an appropriate counter for abductors.

The abductors didnt get me, but roughly twenty minutes later, an announcement got sent stating that a resonance cascade was in effect.

For the record I received an ahelp from one of the non-antagonist crew asking if they could do this and I approved it. The round was going long and I never dreamed I'd see a resonance cascade, let alone approve one.

[. . .]
I recall the shuttle, as a head of staff, which is... NOT agaisnt the rules.

No one is arguing that this is against the rules, but I am arguing that it's incredibly stupid thing to do under these circumstances.

I was about to make an announcement as the captain had left the comms console logged in (condom) stating that the SM was safe and actually under complete control.
The hop RUSHES in, wordlessly tackles me, table slams me to near crit, during this I go "Dont fucking kill me ill blow up" clearly stating that I have the TTV on me and armed.

I asked the HoP about this and they assumed you were bluffing. I don't fault them for thinking that.

Earlier in the round I had lost my Tbaton. Meaning I could not use a tbaton on him, or a flash as for some reason he was wearing sec huds. After the hop threw me to the side, I got up, shot him with a mosin, which barely does any damage.

[Emphasis added by me]
I see this sort of thing a lot, people who feel aggrieved shooting their attacker once as some sort of last-word kinda deal. 100% of the time it escalates the situation from dumb to incredibly stupid. This is exactly what happened here. The HoP, acting on incomplete information, assumed you were up to no good, which you confirmed (for them) by shooting them, leading to:

I go to WALK out of the bridge after calling him an asshole or something along that line, and he proceeds to ABSOLUTELY blast me with his Egun. Which was recently buffed by the way. Killing me.

Death means the bomb goes off, you know, the bomb I warned him about? blowing up me, the bridge, the hop and the captain. Which was NOT my intention.

Also for the record, Devin ate a dayban for the innocent bystander that was caught in the blast.

Why you think you should be unbanned: [. . .]
How did I know the hop was going to absolutely melt my face off after I warned him about the bomb? [. . .]

It was probably because you shot him; and after recalling while the station was in imminent danger.

[Vekter]

It's also worth noting that this is the third time we've had to ban Devin for bomb-related chicanery. This isn't a perma by itself in a vacuum, it's informed by previous interactions.

[DevinXoptoh]

The abductors didnt get me, but roughly twenty minutes later, an announcement got sent stating that a resonance cascade was in effect.

For the record I received an ahelp from one of the non-antagonist crew asking if they could do this and I approved it. The round was going long and I never dreamed I'd see a resonance cascade, let alone approve one.

[. . .]
I recall the shuttle, as a head of staff, which is... NOT agaisnt the rules.

No one is arguing that this is against the rules, but I am arguing that it's incredibly stupid thing to do under these circumstances.


So what I can gather is:

You allowed non antagonists to carry out a round ending event.

You did not know what said round ending event was so, let it happen due to your own curiousity?

Non antags can do round ending events now that include engine sabotage?

That means, my engineering ban should be lifted and the ban I recieved for self antagging for the exact same reason should be removed. As I had "never seen it"

[Vekter]

So what I can gather is:

You allowed non antagonists to carry out a round ending event.

You did not know what said round ending event was so, let it happen due to your own curiousity?

Non antags can do round ending events now that include engine sabotage?

That means, my engineering ban should be lifted and the ban I recieved for self antagging for the exact same reason should be removed. As I had "never seen it"

Nice try, but that's not how this works. Admins are allowed to permit specific actions based on the round at hand and depending on if they feel it would benefit the round or just generally be cool. This is usually referred to as rule 0.

You do not get that benefit. You did not ask Ned if you could build a dead man's bomb so you could blow up the abductors. You did it of your own volition and, as such, take the consequences of your actions.

E: Also I expected AIIA to post it in this thread because they tested it, but Mosins do 60 brute. That's about as far from "barely any damage" as it gets.

[Archie700]

Round: 209705

Shuttle log:

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{"ts":"2023-07-06 01:13:23.235","cat":"shuttle","msg":"NikoTheGuyDude/(NTEO-Null) has called the emergency shuttle.","data":null,"w-state":{"tick_usage":25.2174,"tick_lag":0.5,"time":62804.5,"timestamp":"1688606003.2358515"},"s-store":null,"id":68631,"s-ver":"1.0.0"}
{"ts":"2023-07-06 01:13:23.236","cat":"shuttle","msg":"Shuttle call reason: SM CASCADE IMMINENT> RED ALERT.","data":null,"w-state":{"tick_usage":27.6918,"tick_lag":0.5,"time":62804.5,"timestamp":"1688606003.2370887"},"s-store":null,"id":68632,"s-ver":"1.0.0"}
{"ts":"2023-07-06 01:13:49.117","cat":"shuttle","msg":"DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) has recalled the shuttle.","data":null,"w-state":{"tick_usage":36.9268,"tick_lag":0.5,"time":63035.5,"timestamp":"1688606029.1182349"},"s-store":null,"id":68830,"s-ver":"1.0.0"}
{"ts":"2023-07-06 01:14:34.230","cat":"shuttle","msg":"JustFunk/(George Boyle) has called the emergency shuttle.","data":null,"w-state":{"tick_usage":73.2392,"tick_lag":0.5,"time":63447.5,"timestamp":"1688606074.2308779"},"s-store":null,"id":69338,"s-ver":"1.0.0"}

Fight logs

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01:13:57	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) crashed into DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) (NEWHP: 99)	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:01	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) shoved DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 99)	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:02	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) grabbed DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) passive grab (NEWHP: 99)	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:03	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) grabbed DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 99)	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:04	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) tabled DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) onto the reinforced table (NEWHP: 90.5)	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:04	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) kicked DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) (NEWHP: 90.5)	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:04	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) got a stun punch with their previous punch DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) (NEWHP: 81)	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:05	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) grabbed DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) passive grab (NEWHP: 81.2)	(112, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:06	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) shoved DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 81.2)	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:06	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) kicks DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 81.2)	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:07	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) shoved DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 81.4)	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:08	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) grabbed DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 81.6)	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:09	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) tabled DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) onto the reinforced table (NEWHP: 72.1)	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:10	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) grabbed DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) passive grab (NEWHP: 72.3)	(112, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:11	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) grabbed DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 71.5)	(112, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:12	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) shoved DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 72.7)	(112, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:13	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) tabled DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) onto the reinforced table (NEWHP: 63.4)	(112, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:14	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) grabbed DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) passive grab (NEWHP: 62.4)	(112, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:15	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) grabbed DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 63.6)	(112, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:16	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) tabled DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) onto the reinforced table (NEWHP: 53.3)	(112, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:20	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) grabbed DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) passive grab (NEWHP: 54.9)	(112, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:21	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) grabbed DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 56.1)	(112, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:22	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) thrown DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) grab from tile in Bridge (113,136,4) towards tile at Bridge (108,136,4) (NEWHP: 56.5)	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:22	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) has thrown Ava Kinsley	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:34	ATTACK	DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) fired at JustFunk/(George Boyle) with 7.62 bullet from Bridge (NEWHP: 100)	(113, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:34	ATTACK	DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) shot JustFunk/(George Boyle) with 7.62 bullet (NEWHP: 100)	(113, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:34	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) suffered: Open Puncture to head | Damage: 35 (rolled 118/145.109) | WB: -45	(113, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:36	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) fired at [filing cabinet] with the laser from Bridge	(113, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:36	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) fired at [floor] with the laser from Bridge	(114, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:36	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) shot DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with the laser (NEWHP: 59.3)	(114, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:36	ATTACK	DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) suffered: Second Degree Burns to head | Damage: 23.8 (rolled 34/84.5683) | WB: -20 | BWB: 40	(117, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:37	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) fired at [floor] with the laser from Bridge	(114, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:37	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) shot DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with the laser (NEWHP: 35.5)	(114, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:37	ATTACK	DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) suffered: Third Degree Burns to head | Damage: 26.18 (rolled 90/96.6401) | WB: -20 | BWB: 40	(117, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:37	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) fired at [Logistics Station] with the laser from Bridge	(114, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:37	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) shot DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with the laser (NEWHP: 9.3)	(114, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:38	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) fired at [Logistics Station] with the laser from Bridge	(113, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:38	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) shot DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with the laser (NEWHP: -0.6)	(113, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:38	ATTACK	DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) suffered: Catastrophic Burns to head | Damage: 28.56 (rolled 91/109.159) | WB: -20 | BWB: 40	(116, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:38	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) fired at DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with the laser from Bridge (NEWHP: -29.2)	(113, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:38	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) shot DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with the laser (NEWHP: -29.2)	(113, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:39	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) fired at DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with the laser from Bridge (NEWHP: -60.1)	(113, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:39	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) shot DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with the laser (NEWHP: -58.8)	(113, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:39	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) fired at DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with the laser from Bridge (NEWHP: -89.7)	(113, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:40	ATTACK	JustFunk/(George Boyle) shot DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) with the laser (NEWHP: -89.7)	(113, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:40	ATTACK	DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) has died (BRUTE: 41.1, BURN: 182.58, TOX: 0, OXY: 0, CLONE: 0)	(116, 135, 4)	Bridge

Say logs in bridge

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01:14:11	SAY	DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "do you mind retard"	(112, 137, 4)	Bridge
01:14:14	SAY	DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "Kill me and I blow up"	(112, 137, 4)	Bridge
01:14:16	SAY	DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "in a maxcap"	(112, 137, 4)	Bridge
01:14:18	SAY	NikoTheGuyDude/(NTEO-Null) "ABDUCTORS: SECURITY./"	(109, 137, 4)	Bridge
01:14:21	SAY	NikoTheGuyDude/(NTEO-Null) "ABDUCTORS: BRIG."	(109, 137, 4)	Bridge
01:14:24	SAY	NikoTheGuyDude/(NTEO-Null) "ABDUCTORS: BRIG."	(109, 137, 4)	Bridge
01:14:24	SAY	NikoTheGuyDude/(NTEO-Null) (binary) "ABDUCTORS: BRIG."	(109, 137, 4)	Bridge
01:14:31	EMOTE	Korusho/(Rachael Balachrin) points at George Boyle (as Captain)	(112, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:31	EMOTE	Korusho/(Rachael Balachrin) points at the floor	(112, 136, 4)	Bridge
01:14:35	SAY	NikoTheGuyDude/(NTEO-Null) "abductors disappeared."	(109, 137, 4)	Bridge
01:14:37	SAY	DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "idiot"	(117, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:38	WHISPER	DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "DO IT"	(116, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:40	EMOTE	DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) seizes up and falls limp, her eyes dead and lifeless...	(116, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:40	GAME	*no key*/(Ava Kinsley) *no key*/(Ava Kinsley) is no longer owning mob Ava Kinsley(/mob/living/carbon/human)	(116, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:41	GAME	DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) Client DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) has taken ownership of mob Ava Kinsley(/mob/dead/observer)	(116, 135, 4)	Bridge
01:14:42	GAME	Bomb valve opened in Bridge (116,135,4) with The remote signaling device attached by *no key*/(Ava Kinsley) - Last touched by: DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley)		

Of particular note is this:

01:14:34 ATTACK DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) fired at JustFunk/(George Boyle) with 7.62 bullet from Bridge (NEWHP: 100) (113, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:34 ATTACK DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) shot JustFunk/(George Boyle) with 7.62 bullet (NEWHP: 100) (113, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:34 ATTACK JustFunk/(George Boyle) suffered: Open Puncture to head | Damage: 35 (rolled 118/145.109) | WB: -45 (113, 136, 4) Bridge

While it didn't show how much damage the mosin did (log glitch?), It was apparently enough to puncture HoP's head with one shot, and according to the wounding table: https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Guide_to_W ... ding_Table

Open Puncture
Threshold Min.: 50
Threshold Penalty: (+35)
Base Attack Force:~25 force
(.38 close range, buckshot close range, L6 SAW)

So no, mosins are not as harmless as you claim at all.

[DevinXoptoh]

Unless a headmin is reviewing this,
it can be closed.

[Vekter]

Kieth told me to close this so I'm closing it.