[iain0] note appeal

Ulanyfrajer · Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:46 am

BYOND account:Ulanyfrajer
Character name: Nikcolas Mothworth
Ban type: note
Ban length :Permanent
Ban reason: "Seems to have had some strange escalating interactions with security, starting with a small conflict in medical where security are being harassed and a thrown body hits one, this player gets stunned, but ends up making off with a baton. Later on they get disablered down and arrested but at some point in brig get the upper hand and strip the seccie entirely before throwing them in the (depowered) permabrig. Player was not online at the time this note was placed and was advised to appeal if they have relevant context to add, however was advised that generally looting or stripping security officers is not okay, particularly if they have a valid arrest (retrieval of the baton?), the final stripping and imprisonment seems to be clearly crossing a line."
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed:212703

Your side of the story: this note is mosty true, however it lacks to mention that everytime i stole any sec equipment i gave it back to the sec, once through AI as middle man.

the reason why this note is MOSTLY true is that noone ever bullied secoff in medbay, i had (rather friendly) shoove fight with some random guy until the sec came and tried to arrest me for a body throw, i took my chances won the fight with sec stole his baton and then returned the baton via AI.

despite giving the stuff i stole from sec back, i still got arrested for what it seemed to me, way too long, if we count in him talking to me while i was cuffed as prison time it felt like over 10 minutes (and i was kept in a cell without timer so everything here goes off memory and how i felt that the time) as soon as the cell door opened i shoove fought the sec again, cuffed him and stripped half of his equipment and thrown him to the permabrig, which i agree was an overreaction, however, i wouldnt just leave him be there if i didnt know that somebody would come to his rescue, as right before i stripped him from his radio he managed to call for help, at this point i just wanted to retrieve my stuff, drop his stuff and go away, but i couldnt open the locker with id in my hand rather than on my jumpsuit so i ran away with nothing but his id and baton.

couple minutes after permabrigging him i came to brig again to get him out, but there was some secoff already and so i just ran away so that i wouldnt get arrested. (or executed)

while i agree that me throwing secoff to the perma brig, even if i had intentions to get him out as soon as i had my stuff, were overreacted and it shouldnt have happen for the sake of everybody peace i do not agree that player who played secoff actions were okay, to imprison me for such a long time especially since i the stuff away to him not long after the shoove fight.

i personally feel like the note should be heavily modified and severity of it lowered. Thank you

Post by **iain0** » Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:52 pm #700151

Hi there, thanks for the appeal.

Firstly the current note severity level is "medium", so there's only "low" that it could be reduced to. Severity levels are not well defined in administrative policy (not defined at all really, other than higher=worse), my personal take is "impact level". Low here would probably be something like having just kept the baton and nothing else ever happened, and the apparent results of a full stripping + incarceration feel higher level than this, but not high-sev which would be more impactful (up to the point its impactful enough to impart a ban, which is somewhere in the 'significantly disrupted or ruined the other players round' level).

As a reference, source logs are here https://tgstation13.download/parsed-log ... nd-212703/, any quoted log segments follow the standard admin process of a sorted combined attack.txt and game.txt further filtered as described per citation.

I wasn't a big fan of this part of the ticket ; it being ahelped next round when you're not around to speak to kinda forces you to make an appeal to have any representation which kinda sucks, so I actually looked at the logs originally with a view to see if there was minor enough to not be worth putting you through this hastle, but when I saw the ending with the full stripping and incarceration of the sec officer I definately felt things had gotten out of hand during all this and really would need the voiding of the seccie's metaprots for this to be ok, which wasn't anything I could really find evidence of, and so here we are.

Spoilers in spoilers, because yeesh, conflicts that span areas and rounds are fun. Firstly the initial conflict in medical where you take the baton:

Spoiler:

You and Hunter seem to be messing around in some way.

Spoiler:

In the following section I've removed some lines relating to the security officer eating a donk pocket, they're numerous reagent transfer messages regarding omnizine laughter and banana and simply serve to pollute the logs here. I also removed the proximate "laugh" emotes from the seccie auto generated as a result of eating the honk pocket (though not logged as 'forced' apparently). You two continue messing around. I have no idea if this is a serious fight but it doesn't look like it, more just messing around in medbay?

Spoiler:

People start getting thrown around

Spoiler:

Line 3414: [2023-08-17 00:04:38.265] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) attempted to neck grab Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) neck grab (NEWHP: 98) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3416: [2023-08-17 00:04:39.262] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) thrown Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) grab from tile in Medbay Central (150,120,4) towards tile at Medbay Central (150,121,4) (NEWHP: 98) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3417: [2023-08-17 00:04:39.263] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has thrown Hunter Davis (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3418: [2023-08-17 00:04:39.287] GAME-SAY: Waifu thread/(Dr. Evelyne Vertias) "if you need money, do cargo bounties" (Medbay Lobby (146,124,4))
Line 3422: [2023-08-17 00:04:40.105] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) shoved Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 98) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3424: [2023-08-17 00:04:40.935] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) kicks Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 97) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3425: [2023-08-17 00:04:40.936] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) shoved Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 97) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3427: [2023-08-17 00:04:41.031] GAME-SAY: Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) "bald people are the only true people" (Medbay Central (150,121,4))
Line 3434: [2023-08-17 00:04:41.810] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) grabbed Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) passive grab (NEWHP: 97) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3438: [2023-08-17 00:04:42.670] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) grabbed Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 96) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3439: [2023-08-17 00:04:43.483] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) thrown Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) grab from tile in Medbay Central (150,120,4) towards tile at Security Post - Medbay (150,123,4) (NEWHP: 96) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3440: [2023-08-17 00:04:43.484] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has thrown Hunter Davis (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3441: [2023-08-17 00:04:44.269] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) grabbed Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) passive grab (NEWHP: 89) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3443: [2023-08-17 00:04:45.165] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) grabbed Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 89) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3446: [2023-08-17 00:04:45.960] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) thrown Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) grab from tile in Medbay Central (150,120,4) towards tile at Security Post - Medbay (150,122,4) (NEWHP: 89) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3447: [2023-08-17 00:04:45.961] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has thrown Hunter Davis (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3454: [2023-08-17 00:04:46.821] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) grabbed Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) passive grab (NEWHP: 78) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3455: [2023-08-17 00:04:47.742] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) grabbed Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 78) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3456: [2023-08-17 00:04:48.525] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) thrown Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) grab from tile in Medbay Central (150,120,4) towards tile at Security Post - Medbay (150,122,4) (NEWHP: 77) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3457: [2023-08-17 00:04:48.526] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has thrown Hunter Davis (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3458: [2023-08-17 00:04:49.464] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) grabbed Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) passive grab (NEWHP: 67) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3461: [2023-08-17 00:04:51.014] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) grabbed Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 66) (Medbay Central (150,120,4))
Line 3463: [2023-08-17 00:04:51.827] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has thrown Hunter Davis (Medbay Central (149,120,4))
Line 3464: [2023-08-17 00:04:51.827] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) thrown Bruh24/(Hunter Davis) grab from tile in Medbay Central (149,120,4) towards tile at Medbay Central (153,119,4) (NEWHP: 66) (Medbay Central (149,120,4))

And finally something relevant happens, you throw Hunter and hit the sec officer. Intended or not this is an "oopsie my bad" moment for you, nothing significant but I assume you're not intentionally assualting the officer.

Spoiler:

The seccie whacks you once with a baton, I'm guessing non harm mode though attack logs are always a bit weird over health (i think they state when its harmful, either way, you getting hit once only seem 'fair' as a response).

Spoiler:

Neck grab huh? You seem to do this a few times to people so i guess you're just spamming, still.

Spoiler:

I can only really speculate this is probably where the seccie loses the baton

Spoiler:

Here after action seems to move to the hallway, I'm not going to keep doing area logs, if there's some relevant action I missed feel free to expand on it, but at this point you clearly have the stun baton and use it on the sec officer

Line 3581: [2023-08-17 00:05:42.063] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) stun attacked Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 94) (Central Primary Hallway (123,111,4))

The TLDR of all this seems to be you're screwing around in medical, hit a sec officer with a thrown body during your shenanigans, who retaliates once, who you then steal the baton from and run off. Essentially you started all this, intended or not, got a 'fair' retribution (be that one harm or one stun hit frankly), and then went on and looted the seccie's baton anyway thus making yourself a valid criminal. I don't see anything that invalidates the seccie's position and metaprotections so you're now on the receiving end of a valid arrest in my world view.

This then comes to fruition and the second leg of this tale plays out.

These logs are simply filtered by "either you or the seccie's ckey (username)" because they span multiple locations and the 3rd party interactions dont seem to be part of these events so much

Spoiler:

Seccie comes after you with a disabler and gets you

Spoiler:

You get arrested and the seccie realises there's no power in the brig. You have a few items you shouldn't have here but nothing all that really, but you're still basically a valid criminal as far as I can see.

Spoiler:

This part is not relevant, but if I just conveniently glossed over it I'd probably get picked up on for it later. The logs seem to be continuing to give you traitor objectives despite the fact that you're not a traitor at this point and surrendered that at round start via adminhelp as also evidenced here also, however, apparently the game keeps generating you objectives and failing them despite you not being an antag.

Spoiler:

Line 5635: [2023-08-17 00:24:01.662] GAME-SAY: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) "Oh this place doesn't have power." (Brig (101,171,3))
Line 5650: [2023-08-17 00:24:07.438] GAME-SAY: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) "wow took you a while" (Brig (98,170,3))
Line 5651: [2023-08-17 00:24:07.702] GAME-SAY: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) "Oof" (Brig (101,171,3))
Line 5678: [2023-08-17 00:24:21.575] GAME-SAY: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) "Nickolas are you that mad?" (Brig (101,170,3))
Line 5688: [2023-08-17 00:24:27.155] GAME-SAY: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) "oh im not" (Brig (98,170,3))
Line 5694: [2023-08-17 00:24:30.957] GAME-TRAITOR: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has received a potential objective: /datum/traitor_objective/steal_item/very_risky (Name: Steal detective's revolver and place a schematics scanner on it., TC: 3, Progression: 9000, Time of creation: 23632) | Forced: 0
Line 5695: [2023-08-17 00:24:30.957] GAME-TRAITOR: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has received a potential objective: /datum/traitor_objective/target_player/eyesnatching (Name: Steal the eyes of Luca C the Assistant, TC: 1, Progression: 2980, Time of creation: 23632) | Forced: 0
Line 5696: [2023-08-17 00:24:30.958] GAME-TRAITOR: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has received a potential objective: /datum/traitor_objective/target_player/assassinate/calling_card (Name: Assassinate John Everest the Atmospheric Technician, and plant a calling card, TC: 1, Progression: 1200, Time of creation: 23632) | Forced: 0
Line 5697: [2023-08-17 00:24:30.959] GAME-TRAITOR: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has received a potential objective: /datum/traitor_objective/destroy_item/low_risk (Name: Steal the chaplain's null rod and destroy it, TC: 1, Progression: 3460, Time of creation: 23632) | Forced: 0
Line 5698: [2023-08-17 00:24:30.959] GAME-TRAITOR: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) missed /datum/traitor_objective/demoralise/graffiti (Name: Sow doubt among the crew 8 times using Syndicate graffiti., TC: 1, Progression: 3110, Time of creation: 9432)
Line 5699: [2023-08-17 00:24:30.960] GAME-TRAITOR: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) missed /datum/traitor_objective/demoralise/poster (Name: Sow doubt among the crew 8 times using Syndicate propaganda., TC: 0, Progression: 2755, Time of creation: 2119)
Line 5700: [2023-08-17 00:24:30.960] GAME-TRAITOR: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) missed /datum/traitor_objective/target_player/kidnapping/common (Name: Kidnap Kitsu Nordina the Cargo Technician and deliver them to Lesser Fore Maintenance, TC: 1, Progression: 2092, Time of creation: 2119)
Line 5701: [2023-08-17 00:24:30.961] GAME-TRAITOR: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) missed /datum/traitor_objective/target_player/kidnapping/common (Name: Kidnap Zoned Outnna the Mime and deliver them to Fore Starboard Maintenance, TC: 2, Progression: 1960, Time of creation: 2119)

(and filtered for 'antag' over the entire logs for this ckey)

Line 28: Line 1369: [2023-08-16 23:48:14.368] GAME: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has gained antag datum ï¿½Traitor(/datum/antagonist/traitor).
Line 37: Line 1756: [2023-08-16 23:51:30.730] GAME-COMPAT: ADMIN: Iain0/(Bob Stange) has removed ï¿½Traitor antagonist status from Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth).
Line 274: Line 4163: [2023-08-17 00:10:04.146] GAME-SAY: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) "i beat yall asses even when you got the gear advantage" (Waste Disposal (57,122,4))
Line 434: Line 6493: [2023-08-17 00:30:58.003] GAME-SAY: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) "And yet you still try to antagonize." (Brig (101,170,3))

Regardless of this, events continue and I guess you get put in a cell or something (?)

Spoiler:

Seccie busy with something else

Spoiler:

Line 5862: [2023-08-17 00:25:46.540] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) stun attacked Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 100) (Lesser Fore Maintenance (88,156,3))
Line 5866: [2023-08-17 00:25:50.337] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) stun attacked Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 100) (Lesser Fore Maintenance (89,155,3))
Line 5869: [2023-08-17 00:25:51.441] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) grabbed Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) passive grab (NEWHP: 100) (Lesser Fore Maintenance (89,155,3))
Line 5871: [2023-08-17 00:25:55.335] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) attempted to handcuff Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) (NEWHP: 100) (Lesser Fore Maintenance (89,154,3))
Line 5876: [2023-08-17 00:25:58.319] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) handcuffed Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) (NEWHP: 100) (Lesser Fore Maintenance (89,154,3))
Line 5878: [2023-08-17 00:25:59.134] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) grabbed Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 100) (Lesser Fore Maintenance (89,154,3))
Line 5884: [2023-08-17 00:26:01.513] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) grabbed Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) passive grab (NEWHP: 100) (Lesser Fore Maintenance (91,155,3))
Line 5929: [2023-08-17 00:26:22.282] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) is stripping Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) of the grey jumpskirt. (Brig (99,166,3))
Line 5930: [2023-08-17 00:26:22.818] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) is stripping Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) of the black shoes. (Brig (99,166,3))
Line 5935: [2023-08-17 00:26:23.680] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) has stripped Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) of the black shoes. (Brig (99,166,3))
Line 5936: [2023-08-17 00:26:23.797] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) is stripping Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) of the radio headset. (Brig (99,166,3))
Line 5937: [2023-08-17 00:26:24.381] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) is stripping Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) of the backpack. (Brig (99,166,3))
Line 5938: [2023-08-17 00:26:24.794] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) is stripping Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) of Gall Eggburt (Assistant). (Brig (99,166,3))
Line 5942: [2023-08-17 00:26:25.882] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) has stripped Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) of the grey jumpskirt. (Brig (99,166,3))
Line 5946: [2023-08-17 00:26:27.380] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) has stripped Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) of the radio headset. (Brig (99,166,3))
Line 5948: [2023-08-17 00:26:27.979] ATTACK: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) has stripped Subscipt/(Gall Eggburt) of the backpack. (Brig (99,166,3))

Stuff happens, nothing relevant other than the sec officer stating your sentence is meant to be 5 minutes again

Spoiler:

I don't really know how this plays out positionally, but you're causing trouble. At this point it's been about the 10 minutes from the start of the interaction (disablering), about 8 minutes in brig including stripping and stuff and fairly accurately about 5 minutes in a cell (with the extra time wasted on the lack of power situation and stuff). All in all well within the realm of something that isn't an administrative level concern (dont do the crime if you dont want to serve the time).

Spoiler:

Line 6365: [2023-08-17 00:29:56.106] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) shoved Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 94) (Brig (99,169,3))
Line 6369: [2023-08-17 00:29:57.068] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) kicks Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 94) (Brig (98,170,3))
Line 6370: [2023-08-17 00:29:57.069] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) shoved Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) (NEWHP: 94) (Brig (98,170,3))
Line 6387: [2023-08-17 00:30:01.724] GAME: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) received police whistle in the mail (/obj/item/clothing/mask/whistle) (Brig (101,170,3))
Line 6392: [2023-08-17 00:30:02.882] GAME-EMOTE: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) sighs. (Brig (101,170,3))
Line 6397: [2023-08-17 00:30:05.357] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) attempted to handcuff Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) (NEWHP: 86.2) (Brig (99,169,3))
Line 6398: [2023-08-17 00:30:05.818] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) failed to handcuff Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) (NEWHP: 86.2) (Brig (99,169,3))
Line 6402: [2023-08-17 00:30:07.185] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has thrown the light bulb (Brig (99,170,3))
Line 6421: [2023-08-17 00:30:14.071] GAME-SAY: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) "Nickolas why do you have to be like this?" (Brig (101,170,3))
Line 6448: [2023-08-17 00:30:30.595] GAME-SAY: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) "if not for the door you would be in this cell" (Brig (99,169,3))
Line 6450: [2023-08-17 00:30:31.095] GAME-SAY: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) "Weird, I'm trying to get him out right now." (Brig (101,170,3))
Line 6464: [2023-08-17 00:30:37.947] GAME-EMOTE: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) sighs. (Brig (101,170,3))
Line 6467: [2023-08-17 00:30:41.848] GAME-EMOTE: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) sighs. (Brig (99,169,3))
Line 6473: [2023-08-17 00:30:47.925] GAME-SAY: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) "Nickolas I try to play nice." (Brig (101,170,3))
Line 6493: [2023-08-17 00:30:58.003] GAME-SAY: Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) "And yet you still try to antagonize." (Brig (101,170,3))

Bit of a scuffle which ends with you cuffing the seccie

Spoiler:

Stripping and throwing them into the (depowered) permabrig, where they'll be unable to leave since you stripped them.

Spoiler:

Line 6695: [2023-08-17 00:32:16.550] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) is stripping Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the black gloves. (Brig (101,170,3))
Line 6696: [2023-08-17 00:32:16.790] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) is stripping Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the security bowman headset. (Brig (101,170,3))
Line 6698: [2023-08-17 00:32:16.994] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) is stripping Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the handcuffs. (Brig (101,170,3))
Line 6703: [2023-08-17 00:32:18.230] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) is stripping Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the black gloves. (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6704: [2023-08-17 00:32:18.398] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) is stripping Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the security bowman headset. (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6705: [2023-08-17 00:32:18.634] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) is stripping Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the armor vest. (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6707: [2023-08-17 00:32:18.948] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) is stripping Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the helmet. (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6708: [2023-08-17 00:32:19.507] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) is stripping Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the security uniform. (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6711: [2023-08-17 00:32:19.882] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) is stripping Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the jackboots. (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6712: [2023-08-17 00:32:20.209] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has stripped Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the black gloves. (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6714: [2023-08-17 00:32:21.109] GAME-SAY: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) "bad" (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6717: [2023-08-17 00:32:22.358] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has stripped Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the security bowman headset. (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6719: [2023-08-17 00:32:22.858] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has stripped Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the jackboots. (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6725: [2023-08-17 00:32:22.929] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) is stripping Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of Shitaru Seccus (Security Officer). (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6727: [2023-08-17 00:32:24.516] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has stripped Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the security uniform. (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6728: [2023-08-17 00:32:24.612] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has stripped Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the armor vest. (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6729: [2023-08-17 00:32:24.910] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has stripped Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) of the helmet. (Brig (102,169,3))
Line 6738: [2023-08-17 00:32:35.663] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) grabbed Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 81) (Prison Wing (111,181,3))
Line 6742: [2023-08-17 00:32:36.577] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) thrown Lokedf/(Shitaru Seccus) grab from tile in Prison Wing (111,180,3) towards tile at Prison Gym (116,182,2) (NEWHP: 81) (Prison Wing (111,180,3))
Line 6743: [2023-08-17 00:32:36.578] ATTACK: Ulanyfrajer/(Nickolas Mothworth) has thrown Shitaru Seccus (Prison Wing (111,180,3))

Nothing much more relevant happens, other than I guess you took their ID card and there's nothing to really evidence you going back. This concludes this ckey filtered logging up until your death/suicide)

Spoiler:

In short, I'm not really seeing a valid reason for these actions here so you fall entirely under the "Non antags resisting arrest" escalation policy, or worse:

Rules wrote:Non-Antagonists Resisting Arrest
Non-antagonists should not harmfully resist or retaliate against valid arrests, but do not have to simply give up and allow the arrest to happen. They may instead non-harmfully escape or avoid the arresting officer in the spirit of the game.

If an arrest is not obviously valid, it follows standard escalation. Resisting or retaliating against arrests without good reason may break Escalation Policy and be handled administratively. Non-antagonist players may lose any OOC and IC protections if they choose this path and should consider ahelping if they believe they did nothing to warrant being arrested.

In resisting arrest, non-antagonists should not loot officers and should not detain or incapacitate officers any longer than is necessary to escape or explain themselves.

Should not loot officers and should not detain longer than necessary. Your permitted path here (and I have no idea why you dont just /leave/ having served the sentence, talk about making trouble for yourself, through and through, from the looting of the baton in the first place through to your post brigging behaviour) would at best be to chain stun the seccie and use their ID to break out, throwing all of it back into brig as you go for the seccie to recover. You probably get a good ten seconds head start which is probably all you need. And perhaps there's some debate here about what the best course of escape action is for you, however, stripping them of all their things and incarcerating them in a way they can not escape short of helpful 3rd party intervention (on a low pop round) seems to be pushing your luck. And you're not even really resisting arrest at this point, you've been arrested, you're being released, and perhaps this really is just falling more under self antagging at this point.

I guess if you want significant changes to this, you need to explain to me in good IC terms these two incidents ; what happened to start all this off, which so far seems to be you messing around leading to you looting a baton and becoming criminal, and why you'd think its okay to just stun strip imprison a seccie after you serve your reasonable 5-10 minutes incarceration.

I'm happy to reword the note, thats kinda guaranteed at this point since I'll at least remove the "wasn't online asked to appeal" fluff, however in terms of changes to the actual meat of the note, or the severity level, you're going to have to convince me that you've been wronged by the seccie in any way, because the initial conflict in medical their conduct seems okay, yours makes you a criminal by theft (returned or not, in fact not returned would be more into rules territory potentially). If valid to arrest then I can't really see how your post arrest behaviour is reasonable either. Severity drop will again depend on you giving me some good explanation of why this should be reduced, I do not take issue with the security officer imprisioning you or the duration any of this took particularly noting the power issues that reasonably delay things.

Over to you I think.

Thanks

Ulanyfrajer · Post by **Ulanyfrajer** » Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:25 pm #700170

"Neck grab huh? You seem to do this a few times to people so i guess you're just spamming, still. " - i was the one being neck grabbed. not the other way around, which also at the time seemed to me unfair because it looked to me like escalating from a friendly fight with stranger to something more serious and still it was only me who was being targeted by security.

other than that i do agree, im in the wrong and i shouldnt have permabrigged him / strip him ive done that out of spite of being arrested for what seemed to me, way too long, i was also annoyed that everything escalated to that point because it was never my intention to mess with security, or anyone that round, i also had intentions of setting him free from brig as soon as i could but ultimetly i didnt so thats on me.

id like the rewritten note to include those factors: i gave all of my loot back with intention of deescalating the sitiuation, ive never escalated to lethals (if thats relevant), and that the initial fight with secoff wasnt intended.

Post by **iain0** » Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:31 pm #700200

Apologies on the neck grab thing if that was incorrect, simply a phrase i'd noticed a few times during the reading of the logs, but really more a side comment than anything that relevant.

Seems fair on the factors you'd like expressing so I'll propose a draft of the replacement note as follows:

As a non antagonist, was messing around in medical with another player and eventually accidentally threw a body hitting a security officer. The officer responded with a single stun hit, and a small shove fest broke out during which this player looted the stun baton. This was eventually returned via indirect means, however this action does open you up to a valid arrest, which was later performed. When released, and oddly after serving their sentence, this player got the upper hand on the sec officer and stripped them, throwing them into permabrig (depowered, trapping them) with the intention to return and release them . No lethal force was used by this player, however given the validity of the arrest, the stripping and incarceration of the security officer seems to go beyond the guidelines in 'resisting a valid arrest', and since post arrest, may not even fall under this rule ; please ensure you do not remove equipment from security or incapacitate them beyond the time necessary for you to make an escape in future.

Hows that sound?

Ulanyfrajer · Post by **Ulanyfrajer** » Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:59 am #700278

Sounds good

Post by **iain0** » Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:18 pm #700367

Updated as agreed, thanks!

/tg/Station 13

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